The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Was Hogan as vilified back before he turned heel as Cena is now? I feel like Cena's heel persona with a more sophisticated twist (no more rapping, replace the throwback jerseys with some Armani suits or something) and it'd work. It's all about figuring out how to irritate the hell out of the anti-Cena crowd and everyone else will follow eventually. Heck split up Evolution with Randy Orton as the face (Have Bautista sit out with some obviously exadurated injury and make him look soft stuff like that) and throw Cena in there. That way they can actually do something with them.

Hogan was pure face prior to the NWO heel turn at Bash at the Beach in 96.

 

 

Unless you count his role as Thunderlips in Rocky III............./end sarcasm

Edited May 6, 2014 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[carex]

Soooo WWE watched Forgetting Sarah Marshall and Get Em to the Greek and stole Russell Brand's character for Rose??

 

How am i supposed to take this dude seriously when he's sucking a lollipop and coming out with bunnies?

 

 

I think he did that on his own.  He worked in developmental as a guy named Leo Kruger, and mercenary/Kraven the Hunter sort of character, but with the Shield as mercenaries he wasn't going anywhere with that.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Hogan was pure face prior to the NWO heel turn at Bash at the Beach in 96.

Unless you count his role as Thunderlips in Rocky III............./end sarcasm

I saw a hogan interview where he said that the heel turn was in part because he was starting to hear more and more boos as a face

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Hogan was pretty damn stale by the end of his WWF run. His last match there was basically him getting squashed by Yokozuma in front of an indifferent crowd. And he probably came out of the steroids trial looking worse than anyone involved. Granted, it was a different media world then so it wasn't something every 12 year old knew about. But Hogan was not cool in 1993.

 

WCW put a ton of money in him, but - being WCW - they didn't really have a great vision of what to do with him. Taking a fading Hulk Hogan and having him do old school Hulk Hogan stuff in southern, old school NWA cities was a bad idea. One of WCW's biggest issues was that it never really understood its core audience. It was a southern rasslin' company with southern 'rasslin fans who had been trained for 20 years to believe that a real man with a beard and a beer gut (like Arn Anderson) would whip the hell out of those pretty bodybuilders from up north.

 

I don't think WCW fans were booing Hulk because they were tired of his act or wanted him to turn heel. I think they were booing him because they just didn't like him being in WCW.

 

To Hulk's credit, he didn't just turn heel with Hollywood Hogan. He created a totally new character, pretty much from top to bottom. He could have easily just gone back to the "Incredible Hulk Hogan" character that feuded with Andre and Backlund in the early 80s, but he created this weird parody of a cowardly heel instead.

 

How many years have we been arguing about Cena turning heel? It's not going to happen. I'm not even sure what it would accomplish. The kids would boo him, and the smarks would suddenly start appreciating his work again and cheer him and the WWE would have the same 50/50 reactions with none of the merchandise sales.

[@DCGoldPants]

I don't really get the Adam Rose thing. I also am not loving the teasers for NXT guys coming in a few weeks. When they teased Jericho.....that was awesome. He was established and we didn't know what was up. Then they sometimes have guys just show up and others are teased?

 

How about they show up....fight....and then we learn the story?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Why is that font so small?

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Why is that font so small?

cause our eyes are old?  LOL

[DM72]

Just checked. Every Clash of Champions is now on the WWE Network. I wish they'll add some classic NWA/WCW TV (World Wide, Pro, WTBS) and classic WWF TV (Superstars, Challenge SN Main Event).

[CrypticVillain]

Man, I have been listening to the Stone Cold podcast finally. This dude is a beast man. Love the way he talks and the stories are phenomenal. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Tune in Monday night for Los Matadores vs 3MB 2014!!!

 

2014 has nothing to do with the year. That's how many times they've wrestled.

[@DCGoldPants]

Tune in Monday night for Los Matadores vs 3MB 2014!!!

 

2014 has nothing to do with the year. That's how many times they've wrestled.

 

thank you. I don't get why they keep doing it over and over. The crowd doesn't even seem that into it 

[Gallen5862]

.http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2056151-power-ranking-the-10-best-wcw-clash-of-the-champions-shows-on-wwe-network/page/9

 

Clash of the Champions 6: Ragin' Cajun (04/02/89 in New Orleans, LA)

This is a one-match show, but it's a historic show (it aired opposite WrestleMania 5) and an incredibly long match.  Ricky Steamboat's best-two-out-of-three-falls NWA World Heavyweight Championship defense against Ric Flair is the last great old-school classic NWA title match.  It took up a giant chunk of the show; if another show had three great matches that took up as much time as this match did, it would be on this list, too.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Gallen5862

[@DCGoldPants]

London Raw Crowd. The sign is what grabbed me., But when I took the screenshot, a few other things jumped out.

 

[KDawg]

Couple of booking ideas that I've been thinking would be fun... But won't happen. And kinda wanted to share just... well... because:

 

-Idea One:

Have Ambrose leave the Shield and join Evolution.

Why do I say that? Well, first let's look at gimmick. Ambrose is kind of the "snake" of the Shield. He's strange, out there and different. His gimmick itself would fit with him wearing a suit, being the ****y heel, and he'd fit right along side Evolution.

Reigns and Rollins would look awkward in that role. And furthermore, I think you'd find that most fans, especially the more casual, are more inclined to cheer for Rollins and Reigns than they are Ambrose.

To further explain my thoughts, I think turning Reigns would actually kill his momentum. And I think Rollins benefits from the face heat Reigns gets. ESPECIALLY if Bryan, upon his return, joins in with Reigns/Rollins.

Now, aside from that, in an ideal world where we can get whatever we want to happen:

I LOVE the idea of a War Games match.

Evolution: Triple H, Randy Orton, Batista and Ambrose vs. Roman Reigns, Daniel Bryan, Seth Rollins and a mystery partner.

Advertise the match a pay-per-view in advance. Get Bryan back on TV before he's really ready to return. Hype the piss out of them trying to find a fourth partner. Have them search high and low. Have them find a guy (like the Miz or Ziggler) and have it not work out for some reason. That gives Miz or Zig a heel rub against the biggest faces the company currently offers and puts them in a place where they can get a midcard title for awhile to rebuild their brand.

Have Evolution mock them. Strut their stuff. Saying no one wants to face us inside of a War Games cage. It's going to be four on three and the good guys are in trouble.

Have the groups interact with one another, but not always in the ring and it doesn't need to be physical. Give a bunch of midcarders rubs by working with some of the members of either team.

This is where the ideal part comes in and probably what sinks my idea (hahaha):

At the PPV, they still haven't found a fourth.

The cage comes down, Evolution comes out... Ambrose pleads with his former friends and stablemates to just give it up. He dislikes everything they stand for, but they had a bond and he doesn't want to be the one to destroy their careers. Cue Bryan. Cue Reigns/Rollins. The music stops. Lights come back on. There is an interesting anticipation in the air...

"Cult of Personality" hits. CM Punk is back. Boom. War Games.

But seeing how Punk isn't coming back, that likely wouldn't work.

 

The alternative to that plan would simply be having the match be 4 v 3 and have Ambrose pull the double swerve on Evolution and rejoin the Shield.

 

-Idea two:

Rumor has it Flair wants to make a return. What better way to make an impact than to make an alternative stable to both Evolution and the Shield? He has respect for both. They are the tweener group. They do heel stuff, they do face stuff. When they square off with Evolution they want to be cheered. When they square off with the Shield, they'd be booed. Eventually, when the Shield does break off and Evolution goes away, they are in place to be a dominant stable...

 

Stable:

Manager/Leader: Ric Flair

Members: Dolph Ziggler, Miz, Damien Sandow OR Ziggler, Sandow and Alberto Del Rio OR Ziggler, Miz, Del Rio and Sandow 

 

The new age Four Horsemen.

 

Neither of these will happen, for a variety of reasons. I was just thinking about it and wanted to share for whatever reason! Hahaha

[Gallen5862]

One way of making it look like they can't find a partner all of a sudden Sting's music hits and all of a sudden he appears in the ring with his trademark baseball bat to help the Shield. 

[DM72]

.http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2056151-power-ranking-the-10-best-wcw-clash-of-the-champions-shows-on-wwe-network/page/9

 

Clash of the Champions 6: Ragin' Cajun (04/02/89 in New Orleans, LA)

This is a one-match show, but it's a historic show (it aired opposite WrestleMania 5) and an incredibly long match.  Ricky Steamboat's best-two-out-of-three-falls NWA World Heavyweight Championship defense against Ric Flair is the last great old-school classic NWA title match.  It took up a giant chunk of the show; if another show had three great matches that took up as much time as this match did, it would be on this list, too.

That show was also famous for launching the Teddy Long character when he famously quick counted Road Warrior Hawk against The Varsity Club.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

One way of making it look like they can't find a partner all of a sudden Sting's music hits and all of a sudden he appears in the ring with his trademark baseball bat to help the Shield. 

Sting needs to retire.  No more baseball bat.  No more crow.  Just retire.

[CrypticVillain]

-Idea One:

Have Ambrose leave the Shield and join Evolution.

You say it can't happen, but I think it will happen. If not at Payback, definitely before the next PPV. There has to be some big swerve because if not, what's the point of even having this program. Something big has to happen. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

You have Ambrose leave the Shield and then what ? The feud is uneven.

I personally feel like the shield shouldn't ever break up but instead do the old DX thing and have them all pursuing separate goals while still being associated with each other. Switch up the ring gear and all that but if they ever needed a partner, one of the two would be right there

Like in late 98- early 99, the Outlaws were doing their own thing before Road Dogg and Gunn went after the IC and hardcore titles. PAC was are the euro belt and HHH was on. The cusp of the main event. But they were still all cool with each other

I think the big dramatic break up thing is super cliche

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

I like the push they are giving the Shield, cause Evolution 2.0 is definitely jobbing to them and making them even more popular.  But I agree, something has to happen soon.  I think Ambrose has to turn on the rest of the Shield.  Everyone is just waiting/begging for Reigns to go solo and take off.

 

Remember a while back, Ambrose was getting pissed off at the other two because he lost his solo match (I think that was the reason).  And he would tag himself in to take the victory for the shield.  Possible hints of a future turn on his buddies?

 

What would be hilarious is if Ambrose turns on the Shield and joins Evolution during their match at Payback.  Then Flair comes back, re-joins Evolution and they either a] turn on Ambrose like they did Orton back in the day -or-  b]  They turn on Orton again during the MNR right after Payback.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Why does anyone want Flair back on TV? He's really sad to watch nowadays

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

One way of making it look like they can't find a partner all of a sudden Sting's music hits and all of a sudden he appears in the ring with his trademark baseball bat to help the Shield. 

 

I don't think anyone would know who he is.

 

Sting is coming in on a "Legends" contract. He's there to sell DVDs and headline the Hall of Fame.

 

And, honestly, I think I'm giving up on fantasy booking, because all my ideas involve things like "faces" and "heels" and that **** just doesn't work any longer. Bray Wyatt is out there channeling Jake Roberts at his most evil, and the fans are treating him like Ricky Steamboat.

 

An example: anything I can come up with for The Shield basically involves them doing a modern, more straight-edge take on The Freebirds. It's three against the world. But the Freebirds were natural heels who the fans despised. The fans love the Shield.

 

And unless your name is Von Erich and it's 1983 and were are living in Texas, face factions simply don't work for me. A babyface can have allies, but the entire idea of a babyface is this: He is better than the heels.

 

In classic wrestling logic, every babyface was a better wrestler than the heel who was essentially on their level. Ric Flair can be allowed to be better than Brad Armstrong. But he cannot be better than Magnum TA or Dusty Rhodes. (Gallen is wetting his pants now by the way). The only way Ric Flair can beat Magnum or Dusty is by cheating. And he has many ways to cheat. One of those is by having a gang of goons to bail him out anytime he is in trouble.

 

Nearly every great wrestling angle is - at its heart - High Noon. Gary Cooper is noble but tough. And you know that he could handle Frank Miller one on one if it came to that. But Frank Miller is not going to let it come to that. He is there to kill Gary Cooper and if he has to use a gang to do it, so be it. Cooper has a moral code. Miller does not.

 

Gary Cooper is allowed to ask for help. But if he doesn't get it, well, he's going to go down fighting. A babyface wrestler is allowed to lose as long as he never retreats. Hulk Hogan never retreated as a babyface. Even Steve Austin (who was a different kind of face) never retreated. If he was going to get his ass whipped six on one, he was going to get his ass whipped by moving forward.

 

The Shield as faces just don't work for me. They were built up as better than everyone when they were heels. In wrestling logica, turning face makes you a 25 percent better wrestler automatically. So a team of three guys who are better than everyone....what am I cheering for? I'm suddenly cheering for Shaq and Kobe's Lakers, aren't I?

 

You want to know where WWE may have lost me forever? All that horror movie **** with Bryan and Kane. Byran looked legimiately scared and was trying to get away from Kane. Do you think Dusty Rhodes was going to run away when Abdullah the Butcher showed up? Hell, no. Dusty was going to walk forward and get his head carved like a pumpkin, because that's what Gary Cooper would have done.

 

Right now, the WWE seems to be transitioning from wrestling logic to real world logic and it sucks balls. In the real world, of course the Shield are better than everyone. Of course, Bryan tries to get away from the 300 pound monster who wants to beat up him and his girlfriend. But in wrestling, the Shield could be good if they chose the right path, but it's more fun to cheat. (That defines the Freebirds by the way. Everyone knew Terry Gordy could beat up anyone in the locker room, but he chose cheating and got lazy as a result).

Edited May 23, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I don't think anyone would know who he is.

Sting is coming in on a "Legends" contract. He's there to sell DVDs and headline the Hall of Fame.

As he should be. I don't get why we love watching these past their prime guys get blown up after 3 minutes

I'd rather have my memories from the past.

[KDawg]

You have Ambrose leave the Shield and then what ? The feud is uneven.

I personally feel like the shield shouldn't ever break up but instead do the old DX thing and have them all pursuing separate goals while still being associated with each other. Switch up the ring gear and all that but if they ever needed a partner, one of the two would be right there

Like in late 98- early 99, the Outlaws were doing their own thing before Road Dogg and Gunn went after the IC and hardcore titles. PAC was are the euro belt and HHH was on. The cusp of the main event. But they were still all cool with each other

I think the big dramatic break up thing is super cliché

 

WWE wants them to be solo wrestlers at some point. They won't keep them together if that's the case. Having three heels or faces that are all aligned is really not good wrestling logic. At least one of them has to be the opposite of the other two.

 

Why does anyone want Flair back on TV? He's really sad to watch nowadays

 

I don't want Flair back on TV. But he's coming back if he passes his physical.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

WWE wants them to be solo wrestlers at some point. They won't keep them together if that's the case. Having three heels or faces that are all aligned is really not good wrestling logic. At least one of them has to be the opposite of the other two.

.

Eventually sure. Triple H eventually turned heel at WM 15.

But if you gradually phase them out as a group out (keeping them faces), you turn Ambrose later. Maybe a year down the road. I don't see why any of them need to be heels at this very moment.

Ambrose joining evolution is predicable.