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The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW


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Pipers' mic work was among the best. Good wrestler but very bland.

I'm not sure how old everyone here, so I hope I don't offend, but if you had seen him, even if you were little, you'd appreciate him more.

Still, I don't rank him among the top wrestlers of all time.

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Pipers' mic work was among the best. Good wrestler but very bland.

I'm not sure how old everyone here, so I hope I don't offend, but if you had seen him, even if you were little, you'd appreciate him more.

Still, I don't rank him among the top wrestlers of all time.

Yeah that's the thing I guess. I'm 21 so my idea of him is the loud old guy that had awful matches with Hogan and the NWO in WCW. I've watched some of his early stuff and while it wasn't amazing, I could see how he got over.

Still I don't get the hero worship for him and guys like Perfect and Rude. They were all solid but nothing greater than that

Also he got away with A LOT of ****.

Didn't he paint have his body black at WM when he wrestled a black wrestler?

Edited by BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93
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He likely did that (if he actually did it) to get some heat. Its my number one issue with pro wrestling, especially the Russo style approach to pro wrestling. Imo, even when everything is a work, there are just some lines that shouldn't be crossed. Its mad even worse when you feel that certain guys that are dicks in real life are being enabled to a degree

 

The Dudleys/Mae Young incident, the Big Show/Bossman funeral incident, Stone Cold/Lita, and the  Katy Vick/Booker T stuff immediately comes to mind.

 

He also hit Jimmy Snuka over th head with a coconut.

Edited by Mr. Sinister
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You didnt watch Piper matches for technical expertise, you watched them because you hoped he got his mouth kicked in.

 

He didn't have to be a great wrestler or a steroid induced muscleman. His mic skills were that good. 


Plus - I tend to remember him as better wrestler than a lot of his peers. He had a decent finishing move (sleeper) that was better than Hogan's leg drop and he did some technical work (suplexes, figure four, atomic drops, etc.).

Edited by The Evil Genius
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You attitude guys are really starting to push my buttons. Now you're saying Piper's AND Flair's mic work is overrated?

Those guys didn't need silly catch phrases or a script to get over.

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You attitude guys are really starting to push my buttons. Now you're saying Piper's AND Flair's mic work is overrated?

Those guys didn't need silly catch phrases or a script to get over.

 

No no no.

 

I'm saying Piper is overrated.

 

Flair was the best mic man in the 80s. Second was Dusty and third was Harley Race.

 

Flair and Piper had similar mic styles but Flair was better. His charisma and character really came through the screen.

Edited by BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93
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You attitude guys are really starting to push my buttons. Now you're saying Piper's AND Flair's mic work is overrated?

Those guys didn't need silly catch phrases or a script to get over.

 

I don't think it's fair to categorize a group of fans by their age necessarily. Hell, I don't know anything about Bruno Sammartino except for the fact he held the belt for an obscene amount of time. Same with Bob Backlund. I wouldn't put them anywhere near my top stars of all time list. It's understandable they don't really love the older school guys. I just don't think we should talk out of term on guys that we really aren't familiar with. Piper was at his best in the early 80's up until the mid 90's or so. Beyond that and he still had the mic work down, but he had gotten a bit stale.

 

For the kicks, here's how I'd rank my top wrestlers of all time (and this is 100% MY perspective. I don't put anyone else's opinions in this list. And it's based on the overall package, not just mic work, not just ring ability. Charisma is a huge factor!)

 

1) The Rock - Many will disagree and I'm cool with that. But the mic work, star power, athleticism all factor in. He is truly "The Great One" in my opinion.

 

2) "The Immortal" Hulk Hogan - No, not the Hogan you all know today. The Hogan from back in the day. The original super hero. The guy that took down the bad guys and did impossible things. The on-screen positive role model. The guy who made it possible for someone like Cena and the Rock to exist. The guy who made the anti-corporation rebel like Austin more appealing. The guy who's heel turn literally rocked the wrestling world. Not an in-ring technician, and no-sold most moves, but that was his character. He could tell a story like no other.

 

3) "Stone Cold" Steve Austin - Yup. I have him at three. And that's not a knock. He had it all, just like the two above him. Austin changed the game. He made going against the authority cool. In a way, his rebellion set the stage for guys like our current WWEWHC Daniel Bryan. His mic work and his rebellious attitude was simply extremely appealing.

 

4) The Undertaker - Not the guy you've seen for the last ten years or so. The guy who made me cry as a kid when he pinned Hulk Hogan and won the WWF title. For me, he was truly scary, and the perfect foil for a guy like Hogan. As far as all reports go, he has always been a professional and is always willing to help the young guys. His willingness to put it all on the line, even with his body as beat up as it is, and put on a show at WrestleMania to this day is incredible. And sure, he gets a nice payday, but he could get paid relatively well without doing what he's doing. Yet he's still doing it. I have a great respect for Taker, and maybe that's why he's so high on my list.

 

5) Bret "The Hitman" Hart - Most younger fans remember him only for the post-Montreal stuff. But prior to Montreal he was the WWE's work horse. Came up in the ranks as a member of the Hart Foundation with Neidhart and truly was the man in those times.

 

6) Sting - Yes. I was a huge Sting guy. And to be honest, I liked him better pre-Crow version. Sure, the crow version gave a little life to the character, but surfer Sting had the energy and was WCW's Undertaker. Not necessarily in gimmick, but longevity and in ability to always be relevant.

 

7) The Ultimate Warrior - This is probably going to be the one people criticize the most, but this is my list, damnit. Warrior had something about him. The intensity was unreal. The gimmick was strange and off the wall. The entrance was beyond different. Warrior was a truly different kind of wrestler. His entertainment value was through the roof. Looking back, before all of the internet crap about him, or the WWF feud... I don't know of a single person who didn't get jacked up when Warrior came running through the curtain.

 

8) "Macho Man" Randy Savage - OHHH YEAH! Charisma. Slim Jims. The right mix of strangeness and relatability. I could swap him with Warrior and be fine with it. Loved watching him in the ring as the Macho King or the Macho Man. He's another guy that if you only saw him in WCW, you missed out. In my opinion he's one of the true legends.

 

9) "The Nature Boy" Ric Flair - I feel weird putting him down this low. And to be honest, while he was entertaining, he was never my favorite. But I can't deny him. I can't put him lower. His mic work was incredible. His ability to sell was unreal. Truly a legend.

 

10) "The Game" Triple H - Ohhhhhh boy. More controversy on my list. Sorry. I've just always liked him. I don't care that he married the bosses daughter, or people think he politicked his way to the top. I strongly disagree. HHH is a ring psychologist. He can do it all. He tells stories, has good mic work, is entertaining. When he came back from the quad tear, I marked the heck out. He pulled off a snob character for way too long, and he made himself relevant. When he made the change over to "The Game" he was truly at his best. And now, as the main guy of NXT, he's producing new talent that we haven't seen the likes of. I think he is truly the guy that will carry WWE into the future.

 

11) "The Heartbreak Kid" Shawn Michaels - Marty Jennetty and Shawn Michaels were one of my favorite tag teams. When he kicked Marty through the Barber Shop window, it crushed me as a kid. He has put on amazing moments and had great mic work. I know most people would put him higher, but I don't think #11 on this list is all that bad.

 

12) John Cena - Yup. I did it. Cena has carried an awful product for awhile now. It's starting to change and in part thanks to him. He can't help the way he's booked, but he's both one of the biggest faces of the company and one of the biggest heels at the same time. He's this generation's Hulk Hogan, and probably treated today like the Hogan character would have been in this day in age. He breathes the business and does more for kids in need than pretty much anyone else. He belongs on the tops of all-time list, and when it's all said and done he should wind up much higher.

 

13) Ricky Steamboat - If he was better on the mic, he'd be higher. Not much else to say, an amazing technician.

 

14) Andre the Giant - part of the reason Hulk Hogan is going to always be remembered. A true monster in the ring and from all accounts one of the kindest, most gentle, caring guys in the back. Always willing to help anyone. Legendary.

 

15) Mick Foley - Gave his body to the business. Not a great technician, but he could be extremely serious and bloody himself up, throw himself off of structures onto virtually nothing but concrete, onto tacks, lose an ear and still keep ticking. Always intriguing on the mic and could pull off a comedy gimmick like Dude Love. Mankind was such a different kind of character, too. He started being demonic, and ended pulling a sock out of his pants and making it work.

 

16) Mr. Perfect - In my opinion, and in my lifetime, he is the guy I think of when I think of the Intercontinental Title. Not Warrior. Not Big E Langston, not Wade Barrett, not Bret Hart and not Razor Ramon. Perfect had the gimmick, the moveset, and the swagger to pull it off. Again, he's a guy WCW turned into someone else. So if you remember him from there, you truly missed out.

 

17) Kane - probably more controversy. Kane has been around for a long time. Went from a dentist to a demon. And without the Undertaker he wouldn't have been as thrilling to watch. And, which should probably go without saying, without Paul Bearer probably wouldn't have gotten the same momentum burst. But he's a guy who's been around. Kept in great shape, and when the company has needed him has stepped up and filled a much needed role. Like right now. I think Kane is big time underappreciated and I for one will be sad when he finally hangs them up for good.

 

18) Chris Jericho - Technician. Ring work. Mic work. Not much else to say. Been at it for a long time and been through some amazing runs.

 

19) Scott Hall/Razor Ramon - Another guy I feel is tremendously underrated. The Bad Guy was truly bad ass. The second name I think of when I think of the IC Title. Big part of responsibility of the now and part of an awesome tag team. More charismatic than Nash.

 

20) CM Punk - He could slip or rise on this list depending on what he does in the future. He helped make the "small guy" a threat. Sure, guys like Jericho blazed that trail, but his character work as both a heel and as a face were both very well done. Certainly a talented guy. If he doesn't return, he does risk falling off of my top 20.

 

21) Roddy Piper

22) Rick Rude

23) Kevin Nash

24) Kurt Angle

25) Vader

 

Honorable Mentions:

 

Jake "The Snake" Roberts

Daniel Bryan

"The Million Dollar Man" Ted DiBiase

Brock Lesnar (impact/streak reasons only)

Sgt. Slaughter

Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka

Eddie Guerrero

Edge

Rob Van Dam

Rey Mysterio

Big Show

"The American Dream" Dusty Rhodes

Terry Funk

 

The older guys like Sammartino and Backlund aren't guys I got to watch. So I can't put them on my list. But I do know that they were pivotal in the development of wrestling and definitely know they belong in the conversation. I just have no business discussing them.

 

Also of note: While I did the list (and I didn't feel like revising) I realized that I could slide Warrior up or all the way to honorable mention. He really was a polarizing wrestler. So I will acknowledge that he could have been slid wayyyy down the list.

 

EDIT: Forgot some guys. Edited in 19-25 (no explanations)

Edited by KDawg
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Well that's really funny KDawg because I came up with my WWE list while being bored at work lol.

Undeniable top 3 guys

1. Hogan

2. Austin

3. Rock (my personal favorite and someone I can make case for no. 1)

4. HBK

5. Hart

6. Bruno

7. Andre

8. Taker

9. HHH

10. Cena

Filling out the remaining spots in no order

Angle

Edge

Savage

Orton

Lesnar

Kane

Show

Foley

Punk

Batista

I only put guys that have been main eventers because I can't see a career mid carder (perfect, rude) being that high

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I think Savage could be a top 10 guy. Though I'm not really sure who from that list I'd take out, but I'm sure there's a case for Savage as a top 10 all-time guy.

You definitely could. Was he ever "the guy" in WWE? Meaning a point where he was over Hogan? I know he main evented. 3 WMs but I feel like Hogan was always a step higher.

If someone older could help, that would be great

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You definitely could. Was he ever "the guy" in WWE? Meaning a point where he was over Hogan? I know he main evented. 3 WMs but I feel like Hogan was always a step higher.

If someone older could help, that would be great

 

You're probably right in that he was never "the" guy. But he was certainly fun to watch. Now I'm only 28 so I don't really remember much of Hogan/Savage and the like in their primes. I do remember watching the Saturday morning wrestling on NBC as a kid though. My grandfather was a huge wrestling fan back in the day. I remember he had some old wrestling book with guys like Snuka, Slaughter, Shiek, Hogan, etc. I probably looked at it every time I went over there lol

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Kdawg, I agree with most of your list.  I think Bret Hart is pretty high and I would put Flair at #5, but that's just my opinion.  I agree that Scott Hall was very underrated.  I was a little surprised to see Kevin Nash so low on your list.  I was a huge Nash/Diesel mark and he had excellent mic skills and cut great hilarious promos back in the day before he went to WCW.  

 

He had great mobility for one of the big guys (i.e. 6'9" - 7'0") and his jackknife powerbomb was one of the best finishing moves ever.  He was excellent watching Michael's back, then solo as champion.  Had great feuds with the Hitman and Taker for the championship belt.  Because of him and Scott Hall, they revitalized WCW, especially after the Hogan heal turn and creation of the NWO.  I'd have to rank him in the top 15, not sure where, but one can make the case.

 

Once Big Daddy Cool Diesel was introduced, he did it all and made it work.  As an enforcer, as a solo competitor, as a team (with Hall - the outsiders), as a faction (NWO), etc.  He wasn't that bad in TNA in the beginning either.  I'd like to see them bring him back as a manager or brains behind a faction.  

 

How sweet would it be for him to pop up at the next PPV during the Shield/Evolution match, bodies everywhere.  His music hits, he walks down to the ring, everyone thinks he's coming to help out his buddy HHH.  He steps over the top rope.  Big boots Orton, power clothesline Batista over the top rope.  HHH runs at him, kick in the gut, sidewalk slam.  The Shield then regroups, Reigns spears HHH, pins him.  All four join hands and raise them in victory.  (one can dream right?)

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I am a longtime wrestling fan, had ringside seats this past March for the Dallas house show. Grew up going to the Capital Center and been watching for over 40 years and still love it.

 

How one decides who is the top 10 really comes down to what you value as a fan. Do you value workers like Ricky Steamboat, Randy Savage, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Bret Hart, and Ric Flair for the in ring wrestling ability or do you value mic work and those who can spin a yarn so well how they do in the ring is secondary like Hogan, Rock, Steve Austin, and the like?

 

That's a personal opinion. Me I tend to gravitate towards the workers rather then the talkers. After watching wrestling for 40 years guys that seem to be on the common most liked list were the talkers and I just can't rank someone like the Rock over someone like Randy Savage in a list like best wrestlers of all time. The Rock was great at speaking. He is top 5 there. His matches were not. He could get people to watch, and he could get ratings but in the end his matches were boring to me.

 

My own top 10 of all time wrestlers list would be

 

Randy Savage

Ricky Steamboat

Chris Benoit

Chris Jericho

Bret Hart

Ric Flair

Shawn Michaels

Eddie Guerrero

Curt Henning

Sting

 

My top 10 of best talkers in the ring would be

 

Hulk Hogan

Triple H

Steve Austin

The Undertaker

Ric Flair

Randy Savage

The Rock

Mick Foley

Jake Roberts

Jerry Lawler

 

The guys I put on the talking list are more likely in people's list of all time wrestlers.

Edited by hankersonfan
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So no Mouth of the South?

Jimmy Hart is without a doubt one of the best all time managers, hes up there with Bobby Heenan and Paul Haymen, and could talk his butt off. I assumed this was relegated to wrestlers only and while he did wrestle in a few WWF matches and when he was in the CWA he didnt make my list

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Top 10 of all time

 

1. Tully Blanchard

2. Ric Flair

3. Ricky Steamboat

4. Bret Hart

5. Barry Windham (might be the most underrated wrestler of all time)

6. Kurt Angle

7. Magnum TA (biggest "what if" in wrestling history)

8. Randy Savage

9. Sting

10. Shawn Michaels

 

Best talkers of all time

 

1. Ric Flair

2. Dusty Rhodes

3. Jim Cornette

4. Arn Anderson

5. Piper

6. Hulk Hogan

7. Jimmy Hart

8. The Rock

9. Bobby Heenan

10. Jake the Snake

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Yeah you're a NWA guy through and through lol

No one has Edge in their top 20?

I thought the guy was great. I like judging wrestlers based on how much they can make me hate them...and for a long time i couldn't stand edge. Def not a top 10 but hes in my top 20.

I had him in mine

He was the face of smackdown for about 5 years. Add his tag team credentials and you have a hell of a career

Edited by BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93
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  • TK changed the title to The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

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