Veryoldschool Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 1 hour ago, bobandweave said: For the record it's not that I dislike Kirk it's that this is the first time I can remember our player being what's called "gangsta" towards the club. Ive been a fan of this team for 40 years and this isn't our first contract dispute, remember the year Riggins sat out to drink and fish because he didn't like the deal he was given? I do I am a team first guy and always will be. Do I think giving Kirk a huge money deal is in the teams best interest? No I do not. Do I think that Kirks peaked and won't get better then what we've seen? I do and here's why We all saw his numbers decrease this year because Reed missed games. Reeds had six now documented concussions. We saw Kirk the past two years with field stretching receivers not produce enough when it mattered to do anything significant. Now we are likely losing both of those receivers. Why wouldn't I believe if he couldn't do it with a healthy Reed and Garçon and Desean that he can do it without them? I don't think he can could I be wrong? Absolutely but time is not on our side here for reasons I've already said. Other teams that need QBs will be filling those roles soon enough limiting our market. If i didn't like him my wish that he would come to his senses and sign a friendly deal making it possible to sign those receivers back and leaving some money on the table to sign some defensive players wouldn't be that. I am resigned to know that's not an option for him and I'm armed with the knowledge that losing those players will hurt us more then it will help us keeping Kirk and his huge contract will help us for a single year. i don't dislike Kirk but I really dislike the way he's handled this I'll say if plainly. If your guy, Robert Griffin lII, had become able run a real pro offense and produce the results Cousins did you'd have needed to seek acute care to deal with your painful priapism. Don't like the results? I think you're unhappy because the right results are being produced by the wrong guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, carex said: Kyle couldn't get his own father to commit to Kirk over and injured RG3. All Mike would have had to do was say "we just don't think Robert is ready until he can get that brace off, not at game speeds" and then Kirk could have maybe held onto the job. So I'm not sure I buy this whole Kyle believed in him so much thing, and I'm not sure I believe Kyle would have the authority to pull this trade off Meanwhile I'm not seeing any basis for all this talk except the idea the Redskins have to be chaotic Kyle picked his own GM (I heard it somewhere on the radio). Kyle drafted Kirk here or at least wanted him and got him. RG3 was not a Shanny pick. Dan wanted a new shinny toy to market. Mike's hands were tied by Dan since RG3 was a 1st round pick and gave up a lot to get him so the FO wanted something out of him, anything, even with the brace on. Not sure why you are not up to speed on this? 3 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said: I'll say if plainly. If your guy, Robert Griffin lII, had become able run a real pro offense and produce the results Cousins did you'd have needed to seek acute care to deal with your painful priapism. Don't like the results? I think you're unhappy because the right results are being produced by the wrong guy. Two+ years ago I said something to this effect...like the wrong guy was on the field when they had the right guy on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onedrop Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said: I'll say if plainly. If your guy, Robert Griffin lII, had become able run a real pro offense and produce the results Cousins did you'd have needed to seek acute care to deal with your painful priapism. Don't like the results? I think you're unhappy because the right results are being produced by the wrong guy. Clean and concise, plus a triple word score. Nicely put. Google search popularity increasing in 3...2... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onedrop Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 3 hours ago, bobandweave said: Just because you quote me and are rude to a stranger doesn't make you right. Simply saying QBs get paid doesn't tell the story as to why one guy is paid one million for a season and another is paid 25 times that. I highly suggest you act more professional in the future and try to understand someone before verbally attacking them. As for my knowledge of this game and how the NFL works I'm sure I would amaze you with what I know. Different opinions are what forums are for. I never said anything negative to you and I wouldn't, have your beliefs I don't care just don't come at me like that. Far be it for ME to disparage, or even discourage sarcastic and or argumentative remarks....HOWEVER, the one thing completely unbearable is hypocrisy, especially from someone claiming the ability to amaze with their knowledge. If you're going to complain about others "coming at" or "verbally attacking" you as being rude and unprofessional maybe you should check your own responses, such as..... "Topic screams of attention seeking and stupidity" Which you said to Tsailand... There are others but you get the point. ES means different things to different people but one thing that's always been constant is fairness, ALL members are treated the same. That do as I say not as I do BS won't fly here for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 lol I was drinking at a bar the other night and I saw on the ticker in huge capital letters "COUSINS TRADED...."...I bout choked on my chicken wing (not a euphemism....but I may start using it as one)....lol ESPN, or whoever it was, trolled me...cause they knew I didn't know who Demarcus Cousins was...good one Espen...good one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 As an aside... how silly does Cousins look in this picture? lol. C'mon man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 10 minutes ago, CapsSkins said: As an aside... how silly does Cousins look in this picture? lol. C'mon man... 1 you think?...hmmm..guess it's all perspective...looks like a great game face to me... 3 hours ago, Veryoldschool said: I'll say if plainly. If your guy, Robert Griffin lII, had become able run a real pro offense and produce the results Cousins did you'd have needed to seek acute care to deal with your painful priapism. Don't like the results? I think you're unhappy because the right results are being produced by the wrong guy. 3 hours ago, onedrop said: Clean and concise, plus a triple word score. Nicely put. Google search popularity increasing in 3...2... my priapism could stir reinforced concrete... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 9 minutes ago, Stefanskins said: you think?...hmmm..guess it's all perspective...looks like a great game face to me... my priapism could stir reinforced concrete... Yes, I suppose it is. Personally think it's silly for any player in any sport to do that to their GM... could you imagine Joe Flacco doing that to Ozzie Newsome? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 5 hours ago, Veryoldschool said: I'll say if plainly. If your guy, Robert Griffin lII, had become able run a real pro offense and produce the results Cousins did you'd have needed to seek acute care to deal with your painful priapism. Don't like the results? I think you're unhappy because the right results are being produced by the wrong guy. I would say from a numbers perspective RG3 was more effective in 2012 than cousins was in either the last 2 years, but obviously the reckless style wasn't going to last. i also think it's an unfair thing to say regarding right results and wrong guy. I think many of us on the fence aren't all that happy with the results. Again, take away yardage and his numbers are mediocre. It seems those on his side want to blame everyone but him for the negatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 2 hours ago, CapsSkins said: Yes, I suppose it is. Personally think it's silly for any player in any sport to do that to their GM... could you imagine Joe Flacco doing that to Ozzie Newsome? lol yes, you should never gloat...but we are only human Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probos Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 8 hours ago, CapsSkins said: Packers game was against a **** secondary. I don't frankly care if Kirk is a "good guy" or an asshole. It's about risk. If Kirk is playing hardball after signing the tag and you don't think you can get a deal done by the draft, I say you ship him to SF and pick up that #2 overall. Without knowing the whole story (none of us do) I think all of you "Kirk is not worth the money" guys will more than likely get your wish. The FO doesn't want him at the current market value -- not sure about GMSM as Bruce has neutered him (for better or worse). Kirk has every right to play "hardball", and I have no idea why anyone would blame him for doing so. A career in the NFL (even as a QB) is only a small portion of your life in the grand scheme. You gotta get what you can while you can. I'm in the camp of wanting to keep Kirk and truly building something with him but I don't see it happening now. They have another plan,....not exactly sure if they know what it is, but it's not surprising to me that they are where they are. If SF really wants him just ****ing tag him and trade him for the pick and move on. Start Colt. The team will probably go 6-10. Gruden will be fired (maybe even GMSM) then they'll be back at square one. Which is a place they seem to relish for some reason. I'm a dope,...I could be wrong but that's my gut. 4 hours ago, CapsSkins said: As an aside... how silly does Cousins look in this picture? lol. C'mon man... Personally,...I ****ing love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 edit: never mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 8 hours ago, CapsSkins said: Packers game was against a **** secondary. I don't frankly care if Kirk is a "good guy" or an asshole. It's about risk. If Kirk is playing hardball after signing the tag and you don't think you can get a deal done by the draft, I say you ship him to SF and pick up that #2 overall. It doesn't matter.. all these qualifiers are meaningless. What do you expect a good QB to do against a busted up secondary? Throw for 375 and 3 td with an 18 yard per completion average. Something like that, right? if it's about risk, why throw away a known commodity that we developed for a draft pick that will be used on a guy who has never played a down of NFL football? Kirk has put together two consecutive excellent seasons in the two years he's been the starter. What part of the risk assessment is it that red flags him so much after that .. that it would be preferable to take a chance on a player that could bust? I don't follow this logic. I'm obviously on the Kirk wagon. But if a team put together a Walker-type deal with multiple firsts, multiple seconds and multiple 3rds, i'd have to look at it.. but for just the second, no way. I don't even take that call. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 ****ing ****. I mean, after all of the money the Snyder regime has wasted over the years on guys like Deion Sanders, Bruce Smith, Adam Archuletta, Donovan McNabb, Jason Taylor, Fat Albert and so many others....we finally have a guy that we drafted, developed and is worth it....and they don't wanna pay him. This is the guy they don't want to pay. What in the actual ****. I just don't get it. Part of me thinks that they can't be this stupid, but then again.... If Kirk isn't our opening day starter this season, I'll feel really bad for Gruden. I'll probably feel bad for Scot, too. Both brought here under the guise of them being able to have influence and do things their way. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 @elkabong82the dead cap number you quote for Luck is incorrect. It's only 12.8mil with two years left on his deal. Its very easy to front load, reduced signing bonus with higher roster bonus and base salary guaranteed in the first 3 year. Give him a 15mil SB with 2017 base of 20mil and he's getting 35 cash now, the cap hit in 2017 is 23 on a five year deal, plus dead cap after year3 is only 6 mil. Plenty of variations off that, easy done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purbeast Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 42 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said: ****ing ****. I mean, after all of the money the Snyder regime has wasted over the years on guys like Deion Sanders, Bruce Smith, Adam Archuletta, Donovan McNabb, Jason Taylor, Fat Albert and so many others....we finally have a guy that we drafted, developed and is worth it....and they don't wanna pay him. This is the guy they don't want to pay. What in the actual ****. I just don't get it. Part of me thinks that they can't be this stupid, but then again.... If Kirk isn't our opening day starter this season, I'll feel really bad for Gruden. I'll probably feel bad for Scot, too. Both brought here under the guise of them being able to have influence and do things their way. The more things change, the more they stay the same. And remember too, they basically threw away 5+ years of building through the draft for a completely unknown QB in RG3 who turned out to be probably the biggest bust in the history of the NFL if you look at what was lost on him, yet they aren't willing to do a 5 year deal with a consistent QB who has been home grown. I'm with you, this **** is is just mind boggling and some things never change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, purbeast said: And remember too, they basically threw away 5+ years of building through the draft for a completely unknown QB in RG3 who turned out to be probably the biggest bust in the history of the NFL if you look at what was lost on him, yet they aren't willing to do a 5 year deal with a consistent QB who has been home grown. I'm with you, this **** is is just mind boggling and some things never change. I'm with you on this, too. However I don't trust that they'd have done anything through the draft, either. That's what I keep telling myself, though. RG3 wasn't unknown though, he was a Heisman winner. I don't know why the Shanahans get so much crap on here, they were the only ones who could see through his deficiencies and make something out of him. Even if it was only for a year, it was an electric year and fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsManNJ Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 My sources say that KC is going to be tagged this and then a sign to be tagged again next year which will bring his guaranteed money up to $78mil over 3yrs including 2018. Smart agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purbeast Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 13 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said: I'm with you on this, too. However I don't trust that they'd have done anything through the draft, either. That's what I keep telling myself, though. RG3 wasn't unknown though, he was a Heisman winner. I don't know why the Shanahans get so much crap on here, they were the only ones who could see through his deficiencies and make something out of him. Even if it was only for a year, it was an electric year and fun to watch. I meant unknown what he would do in the NFL. I know he was good in college but as we know that doesn't always translate to the NFL, and it clearly didn't. I also don't think many people really understood RG3's personality and mental fortitude, which was extremely weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexa Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Those stupid fools (Bruce and Dan) are still bitter that RG3 is a bust. That is part of the issue. Let's just say that Griffin was the one breaking the Redskins records. He would have a long term deal after the 15 season. I'm 100 percent sure of that. Those idiots would be so happy to give him a deal. But they can't cause the 4th rounder turned out to be better and they're still bitter about that. And I firmly believe that this is the reason Kirk doesn't have a contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlamVR Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I love the current Kirk will likely be traded this weekend suggestion that NFL analysts are throwing around - Would not Kirk need to be under contract for us to trade him? AND there would ned to be some kind of contract framework in place - which would to me suggest 9ers have had discussions with Kirk which sound to me a lot like tampering - Sure Kirk is an FA this season but not until the 9th of March (man is free agency really more than 2 weeks away - we have to put up with this garbage reporting for two more weeks .... please someone make it stop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I fear that somehow, we will botch this. We seem well on our way. If we ink him to top dollar, he will have no supporting cast and we'll go 8-8 for the duration of his contract. If we don't ink him, he will go onto stardom elsewhere, while we go 8-8, and cry. Because, Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 13 minutes ago, Alexa said: Those stupid fools (Bruce and Dan) are still bitter that RG3 is a bust. That is part of the issue. Let's just say that Griffin was the one breaking the Redskins records. He would have a long term deal after the 15 season. I'm 100 percent sure of that. Those idiots would be so happy to give him a deal. But they can't cause the 4th rounder turned out to be better and they're still bitter about that. And I firmly believe that this is the reason Kirk doesn't have a contract. Yes, I'm totally sure this is the reason they're having reservations about paying Kirk the most money of anybody in the league. Probably has nothing to do with his up and down play.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 15 minutes ago, Alexa said: Those stupid fools (Bruce and Dan) are still bitter that RG3 is a bust. That is part of the issue. Let's just say that Griffin was the one breaking the Redskins records. He would have a long term deal after the 15 season. I'm 100 percent sure of that. Those idiots would be so happy to give him a deal. But they can't cause the 4th rounder turned out to be better and they're still bitter about that. And I firmly believe that this is the reason Kirk doesn't have a contract. I hope this isn't the case. I would hope that these men wouldn't be so petty as to tear down what we have only to start over because of jealousy and bitterness. That's what I hope. What I think, is you could be on to something, at least partially. I've been a Redskins fan my entire life, but I think I will probably lose complete faith in this team and go into full apathetic mode if this turns out to be true. At least my Sundays would be more open during the fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 10 hours ago, CapsSkins said: Packers game was against a **** secondary. I don't frankly care if Kirk is a "good guy" or an asshole. It's about risk. If Kirk is playing hardball after signing the tag and you don't think you can get a deal done by the draft, I say you ship him to SF and pick up that #2 overall. What happened to Rodgers??? He was playing against the **** secondary of all **** secondary's. 21 minutes ago, Alexa said: Those stupid fools (Bruce and Dan) are still bitter that RG3 is a bust. That is part of the issue. Let's just say that Griffin was the one breaking the Redskins records. He would have a long term deal after the 15 season. I'm 100 percent sure of that. Those idiots would be so happy to give him a deal. But they can't cause the 4th rounder turned out to be better and they're still bitter about that. And I firmly believe that this is the reason Kirk doesn't have a contract. I believe this is a large part of the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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