Where does Gruden rank?

[PeterMP]

Clearly, there's been a big swing of support for Kirk.  It seemed like to me earlier this year, there was even less support for Gruden.  I'm curious to where people see Gruden now.

 

Does he take a similar swing?  Where does he rank and does he deserve to come back?

 

As with Kirk, I think you bring him back next year.  It doesn't even really matter what happens in the last 2 games.

[daveakl]

Coaching is so dependent on talent that it's hard to rank them without really getting into what they are working with.

Examples:

Andy Reid is a very good coach. He can take a 6-10 talent team and get them to the playoffs but he does a poor job taking a playoff team all the way to a championship.

Jeff Fisher is a bad coach. He can take a playoff team and make them 7-9 or worse. But his teams play hard for him so there is that.

So where is Gruden? Probably about the same as Coughlin or GBs coach. Not the best but in the upper half.

[Epochalypse]

It's probably a cop out answer but still too soon to say.

 

This is his second year as a head coach, for a franchise that has been an also ran for a very long time, 2012 notwithstanding.

 

We just this year got a real GM.

 

We have been decimated by injuries and yet we are .500, leading the division with 2 games left.

 

I'd like to think he's top half of the league but I think we need more data.

 

I don't think there's any question he should be back next year.  But I like his chances of continuing to develop into a really good head coach.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I have no clue.

[tshile]

I still have no idea.

 

I like Gruden as a person, he seems like an honest guy that would be fun to go partying with/drink with. He really does.

 

The players seem to like him and want to play for him.

 

But I went into the season not sure if he was HC material (much less top 1/2 or top 1/4.) Still not sure. I like that he seems to have guts (going for it on 4th), and I think he puts together a good offensive scheme. But his use of time outs is, generally, terrible. The team's had problems with penalties. The team has also had issues showing up to play in general, or only playing 1/2 of the game. The last few weeks our offense has had delays of game, or taken timeouts inappropriately, sometimes back to back (last week it was out of tv time out -> time out to avoid delay of game -> almost delay of game...)

 

Those feel like coaching issues... discipline issues...

 

I feel like penalties need to go down (generally) and the team needs to play a full game more often than not before I can even entertain putting him in the top 1/2 as a head coach.

 

But Kirk's growth, the team's growth, and Gruden's growth are all apparent and are good things. Not trying to take away from that...

[LD0506]

Agree w/ Epoch, jury's still out. Next year will be a watershed for this franchise, Jay and Scot building on what they have begun will answer a lot of questions.

[Burgold]

I'll give him top 16, but not top 8 which is a benefit of the doubt vote. We are only .500 and got humiliated when pitted against the very good teams.

[Rskins06]

I think he is in the top half of the league and only getting better.  He is much improved from last year and even much improved from week 1.  I think next year is a make or break year for him, he will have HIS team with the players HE wants in his system and there will be zero excuses if this team doesn't improve from this year.  He is definitely moving in the right direction.

[wysknz1]

I think he's in a more difficult spot than his brother. John inherited a very good but poorly coached Tampa team and won a Superbowl quit and went into announcing. Jay got a very hapless team with a losing culture and no draft picks and a mess of a franchise from owner on down. I'll take a .500 team right now because things are looking up. So that said....I'll give him middle to upper just because there's hope.

[PeterMP]

The team's had problems with penalties. The team has also had issues showing up to play in general, or only playing 1/2 of the game. The last few weeks our offense has had delays of game, or taken timeouts inappropriately, sometimes back to back (last week it was out of tv time out -> time out to avoid delay of game -> almost delay of game...)

 

Those feel like coaching issues... discipline issues...

 

I feel like penalties need to go down (generally) and the team needs to play a full game more often than not before I can even entertain putting him in the top 1/2 as a head coach.

 

But Kirk's growth, the team's growth, and Gruden's growth are all apparent and are good things. Not trying to take away from that...

 

We're bottom 6 in terms of penalty yards given up.  (That's 6th lowest)

[tshile]

We're bottom 6 in terms of penalty yards given up.  (That's 6th lowest)

 

I would have never guessed that watching our games.

 

I would have guessed easily top 1/2, maybe top 1/4

 

I would have put Jordan Reed as among the most penalized. I feel like every time he's on the field he gets a penalty lol!

[Tay]

I don't know if it's fair to rank him yet. I'm glad we've got a solid coach that has the potential.

 

Right now he's a young second year coach that has showed a lot of growth early in his career. I think he could be around for a long time.

[Warhead36]

He's no worse then average and probably better then average.

 

There are some terrible coaches out there.

[mike42]

Back in October, I wasn't complaining. Gruden has done a good job so far, he took over the NFC's traditionally worst team in January 2014. Even his 2014 team looked better than Shanahan's 2013 team.

 

2015>2014>2013

 

We get better each season. As a young coach, Gruden will still make mistakes like his soft calls against Dallas game. But eventually he seems to learn with mistakes and so does his players. Gruden continues to improve. But only as long as the talent on this team improves. The longer GMSM is around to help, the easier Gruden's job will be.

 

Even if we lose out and go 7-9, this year was a major success for Gruden and our franchise. Considering the dumpster fire we were in 2 years ago.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

No clue really, but he's trending upwards.  Not just because we are .500 and leading the division.  It appears he's got the buy-in and its been a while since we've came out and just flat out looked like a poorly coached/prepared football team. 

 

With coaching, it seems as if their are a handful of guys that truly make a difference and a bunch of jags.  I don't know that he's in the make a difference crowd just yet.

[Voice_of_Reason]

"Your are what your record says you are." - Bill Parcells.  So, this year, he's better than 18, tied with 3, and not as good as 11.  Shrug.  

 

Btw, you could have made this a whole lot easier by just saying:

 

1. Top quarter (1-8)

2. Second quarter (9-16)

3. Third Quarter (17-24)

4. Bottom quarter (25-32)

He's no worse then average and probably better then average.

 

There are some terrible coaches out there.

Who?  I don't disagree, just want to see who's on your list...

[Warhead36]

"Your are what your record says you are." - Bill Parcells.  So, this year, he's better than 18, tied with 3, and not as good as 11.  Shrug.  

 

Btw, you could have made this a whole lot easier by just saying:

 

1. Top quarter (1-8)

2. Second quarter (9-16)

3. Third Quarter (17-24)

4. Bottom quarter (25-32)

Who?  I don't disagree, just want to see who's on your list...

Petine in Cleveland. Tomsula in San Fran. Fisher in St. Louis. That's just a few.

[MorrisFan46]

He's developing, but he's still not in the top 8.

 

I like what he's starting to realize on the offensive side. You CANNOT run it on first down EVERY FREAKING TIME. He threw it on first down last week and it resulted in a JReed touchdown.

 

I still think he's lacking in clock management skills, but that comes with time.

 

I really think it would help him if he would just let Sean McVay call the plays on offense. He needs to focus on the overall game. Not just what play the offense will be running.

 

He's in the top half because the players trust and respect him. He could probably be a top 10 coach with time. Maybe.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Petine in Cleveland. Tomsula in San Fran. Fisher in St. Louis. That's just a few.

Petine - agree, but Vince Lombardi couldn't win in Cleveland with that team and ownership.  

Tomsula - Agree

Fisher - I've been saying that for a decade.  Steve McNair made him look like a good coach.  Maybe Gregg Williams also.  

 

I'd add:

Jason Garrett

Gary Kubiac

Jim Caldwell

Mike McCoy

 

I'm leaving the interim coaches out.  

 

There really is a dirth of guys you can point to and say, 'Damn, he's a good coach." I mean, I guess you would say Bellichick, Carrol, McCarthy. There are a bunch of guys who have been around forever with a variety of success, such as Fox, Marvin Lewis, Lovie Smith, Andy Reid, Sean Payton, Mike Tomlin (though I really like Tomlin), John Harbaugh (though he's an ass).

 

It's amazing, you look back in time, you had a bunch of historically good HCs all coaching at the same time.  Just look at the 80's:

Shula, Landry, Parcells, Gibbs, Walsh.  In the 90's you still had Parcells, Johnson, Shanahan (I think you can throw him in for what he did with the Broncos in the 90's), Holmgren.  Throw Cowher in there if you would like.  

 

But starting in the 00's, the coaching just became very "even" if you will, if you take out Bill Bellichick.  Who are the great coaches of the last 15 years? You kindof have to put Pete Carol in there, but apart from that?   Coughlin?  Please.  Tomlin? Maybe.  Harbaugh?  Ok... 

 

I mean, the cast of coaches now just isn't remotely at the same level as the ones from a couple decades ago.  

[ExoDus84]

I wouldn't say Gruden is a top 8 coach. I'd say top 15, but not a top 8. He's getting better, IMO. I think he's also done a great job this season, given all the injuries and turmoil and certain positions. I mean, we were a 4 win team last season. Despite the plethora of injuries and adversity, we're 7-7 and in position to win the division. That's kinda crazy if you think about it.

[ksun247]

I put him in the lower 1/2, but he's probably #17. There are some bad coaches out there and some decent coaches who are not having good years (Harbaugh, Payton). Arguments can be made that he is in 14-18 range. Can't put him any higher than 13.

[DC9]

I have no clue.

 

I'll wait to vote until after his nickname thread is created.

[DogofWar1]

He ranks as "good enough."

 

He's currently developing, so it's tough to say.  Yesterday was good, top half of the league stuff.  Other weeks are rough, bottom half stuff.

 

There are holes to his coaching, sure, but this is year two, and somehow he's got us in a position to make the playoffs with a win this week.  That's pretty darn good considering the year before he was here we were 3-13 and his first year we were 4-12.

 

He's got enough leeway to last him at least through 2016, and a decent year next year (8-8 or better) probably buys him through 2017.  When he's hit his "peak" as a coach, and doesn't grow for a couple seasons, if his peak is insufficient for our purposes, then we can probably say exactly where he is.  Right now I'd say middle of the pack, and I base that on my untrained eyeballs so take that as you will.

[Wildbunny]

First Zoony is gonna tell you they are all alike (and he may very well be right).

 

To qualify this poll, I have to set all the coaches by quarter:

1-8

9-16

17-24

25-32.

 

I can believe he's between 9-16, but then, who do I put in 1-8?

Bellichick, McCarthy, Caroll, Coughlin?, Tomlin? Rivera? Lewis? Reid? Harbaugh? Payton?

That's ten guys, ok, but I'm not even sure some of those really deserve it, this year at least. After that it's pretty much even. Guys like Gus Bradley is doing a great job but still doesn't have the team he deserves, same with Del Rio.

 

So... Really don't know where to put him, but he deserves more credit than what he's getting from this fanbase or the media.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Gotta give the man credit when it's due.  Kirk is thriving right now.  I think the next step is to show well when we play upper tier teams.  Right now I would rank him in the 12-16 range.

 

I agree that our run game has struggled, and our play calling on 1st down hasn't been successful for most of the year.  However, I do think a lot of that has been Gruden's reluctance to give Kirk more autonomy at the line of scrimmage, and trying to design plays that are safe that will keep us ahead of the chains.  

 

As a fan, it's easy to say chuck it downfield all day or want Kirk to toss it all over the yard every week, especially when our running game has been missing in action.  Gruden's resume would say that he would agree with you.  However, a QBs psyche is very fragile and building confidence and trust is a process.  We are still in that process.

 

I think a lot of our success this season is in part due to the restraint Gruden has showed while developing Kirk.  I think we have seen him loosen things up to a degree as the season has gone on.  It seemed like Kirk was more in charge at the LOS yesterday than in weeks past, but that could be my eyes deceiving me.

 

Either way, it's hard to disagree with Gruden's approach with Cousins this season.  It's working.  Let's hope for more improvement so that have some momentum going into the offseason.  Hail.