Is Kirk Cousins Clutch? Does he have the moxy to lead a 4th Quarter comeback?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

It's too early to have this conversation.

Cousins missed throws and didn't look hot

In the end but again, it's early and he needs more chances to see what he's got in these situations.

However, I'm checking out of this thread when one of the biggest Griffin bashers and complainers about his ypa in week 1 is going to credit Cousins for a 55 yard screen pass and call it one of his best passes of the day.

Objectivity -> out window

 

 

:lol:

[ZRagone]

Because Griffin has proven that he cannot stay healthy.  You can't help a team if you're continously on the bench.  What part of that don't you understand?  

 

Does Cousins need to win the Super Bowl for you people to get onboard?  Or are you just blind RG3 fanboys.

Again, you're using words that don't mean what you think they mean.

RG3 has had problems staying healthy; what that says for the future is a question though.

The same "proof" you claim for Griffin was talked about for Matt Stafford after his second season ending injury in as many years....he's gone on to play 3 healthy season and is in the start of his 4th.

Griffin COULD go down the road of Matt Stafford. Or he could go the way of Bradford with 3 season ending injuries out of 4 years.

The jury is still out on what's going to happen. He's proven there's legitimate concern about his ability to stay healthy, but he hasn't in any way proven that he definitely can't stay healthy. To claim such is to ignore the reality and stupidly assume ones opinion of the situation is fact.

[Mad Mike]

Kirk is most likely the starter the rest of the season, there's really no need to pile on RG3 while he's injured.

 

I'm not piling on anyone. I have no emotional ties to either QB. I simply want this team to have the best chance to win and IMO cousins is starting to look like the guy who can get it done while RG3 is starting to look like an injury prone player who still need a lot of work.

 

Actually... scratch that.... I have been emotionally invested in RG3. No one wanted to draft him more. No one thought he would be our franchise QB more than me. It hurts to see him struggle to play well and to be constantly injured. I feel for him and wish him the absolute best. 

 

But the team comes first and IMO our best bet going into the future is with the bird in hand rather than the 2 in the bush that we HOPE will someday reach his full potential.

[ZRagone]

Wishful thinking. Griffin hasn't looked CLOSE to being able to make any sort of long run since his knee injury.

I distinctly remembered some instances last year where he looked capable, as I remember sitting up and going "hey, there's that missing guy we saw last year". They weren't nearly as common place as 2012, but he definitely still showed glimpses last year. Went back and checked and sure enough the three games I thought of did have examples. His first run last year in the Chicago game, his rush up the middle of the Dallas defense in the 3rd quarter, and the 4th quarter run in Detroit where he ended up fumbling. All long 20+ runs where he flashed some of that talent from 2012.

The early going in the Jacksonville game had me thinking he looked CLOSE to being that same guy as well.

[Dan T.]

Wishful thinking. Griffin hasn't looked CLOSE to being able to make any sort of long run since his knee injury.

Observation, not wishful thinking. I saw the two runs he made against Jacksonville before he went out.

[emor09]

Just to compare to RG3 last year, his final three close losses he had a chance to win at the end. 

 

1. Vikings — couldn't punch it in at the goal line. 

2. Eagles — makes an awful throw that gets intercepted

3. Giants — officials signal 1st down and then take it away. Then Garcon fumbles. 

 

Griffin did, however, play very well in the 4th quarter against the Bears and Chargers. 

 

***

 

Back to Cousins. 

 

It's far too early in his career to say he's not clutch, especially considering what he did against the Ravens is probably one of the most clutch performances by a Redskins QB in a long time (don't forget, he also ran for 2 pt. conversion). 

 

Maybe dropping back 48 times for a guy who is used to sitting on the bench got to him?

 

I'll worry if he keeps having 3 great quarters and then a bad 4th all season. But for now, I just think he needs more reps with the starting WRs and he'll be fine.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

good point. but i still think the failed 2 point conversion shouldnt cancel out what kirk did to get us within a point of a tied game. i yelled all the curse words known to man when we failed the 2 points, since they are much less likely than getting, say, 1 point to bring the game to overtime.

 

Completely agree with you. I got irritated over the offseason at those who kept saying Cousins "sucked" in the Atlanta game because he couldn't convert the 2-pt play. That drive should have sent the game into OT.

[Mad Mike]

Observation, not wishful thinking. I saw the two runs he made against Jacksonville before he went out.

 

You do see the irony in this post don't you?

[Zazzaro703]

You absolutely cannot expect a QB to pull miracles when the defense and special teams give up a ton of points.  It doesn't work that way.  Sometimes the QB can do it and win those games but if the defense and special teams blow it, then there's not much you can do about it.

Lol there was something he could do about it. He had the ball at the eagles 41 with a chance to win the game or tie it.

[RiverboatGambler]

Too early to say he isn't clutch but he is a very different QB than Griff. Kirk is better on schedule, Robert is better when the play breaks down. Robert has a higher ceiling if he can stay healthy and continue to develop but that is a big if. If Robert doesn't get better than you go with Kirk because he can win games right now if he plays even 75 percent as well as he did yesterday. I still need to see Kirk face a real pass rush and still produce. I also still need to see him leading drives in the 2 minute to win. .  I like Kirk and whichever way we go is fine with me as long as we get value for the one we decide to give up because it is going to become an untenable situation soon.

[Bishop Hammer]

Are we having this discussion about a guy with five starts under his belt? Can we get an actual sample size? He's only played in two clutch situations in his career in meaningful games. He's 1 for 2.

Thank you. He's fifty fifty with limited playing time. Bloody hail its like no one wants to give our young QBs time to grow, no matter who is on the field?

[skins island connection]

The guy threw for 427 years and 3 TDs. I don't think he needs time to sync with anything lol. The throw to Pierre wasn't a sync issue either, it was just a flat out throw. He admitted in his conference it was his footwork and balance that caused him to miss.

 

I think its just a mental aspect of his play, which is why he throws so many interceptions even though he seems to be pretty accurate and goes through his progressions so well.

 

One thing I heard during Gruden's presser that I thought was interesting is that he believes Kirk gets too antsy in the pocket and gets rid of the ball TOO QUICKLY. I think thats something too watch. We criticize RG3 for holding the ball too long waiting for the play to develop, but it could be that Kirk gets rid of the ball too quickly instead of waiting for routes to develop.

 

It's crazy to think about with him getting 427 yards, but it could be that Kirk left yards on the field because he didn't let routes develop enough.

 

I didn't say that as a bad observation, I was implying that chemistry between a QB and WRs takes time. We saw how Cousins was throwing like crazy to Paul [TE] and its because they've practiced alot together. The same thing will happen with the starting WRs over time. Last week Garcon had 1 catch; this week he had much more, and its due to them becoming familiar with each other.

 

The throw to Garcon that was low; it happens, it just sucks that it happened at that juncture of the game. If he continuously throws ints late in games where we need a completion, then it could become a problem, but its been 1 game.  1.

[Dan T.]

You do see the irony in this post don't you?

No I don't. Not in the context of the hypothetical comment to which I originally replied.

[Zazzaro703]

skininsite , thanks for posting those vids.  Garcon did have double coverage and was not wide open.  It was a bad pass but still , im not gonna complain too much.  I think the only thing u can criticize him about those final plays is that he could have waited more .  He had a ton of time and couldve waited for something to develop.

How in the world is that what you take away from the video. He was wide open cutting across the middle of the field. If he hits garçon in stride he runs for at least another 10 yards on top of the 13 yard pass.

[stoney26]

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Does suck that the offense couldn't gain 10 yards to put them in FG range but I think it's way too early to say Kirk is a choker ala romoSUCKS. Sample size is too small,....just can't buy into that comparison yet.

Let's see how he does the next 5conversation94x4-6 games, as well as the team in general. He's the least of my worries right now.

[dsciambi]

I agree with whoever said Cousins tries to get the ball out too soon. And it sounds like Gruden and Cousins both acknowledged it. Hopefully he gets more comfortable with a few more games of play time and gets that sorted out.

[NoCalMike]

Michael Irvin of all people IMO put it best regarding Cousins vs. RG3.

 

Cousins is a great fit for a base WCO because it is based on the QB not being the play maker.  It is based on getting the ball out quickly and distributing it to the play makers on offense, it is however essential that you have guys on offense that can turn short catches into long gains, YAC.  Going back to the 49ers under Walsh. YAC was the biggest factor even with Montana as the QB. Sure, there will be opportunities to hit the long pass a few times throughout the game, but for the most part, the QB is not the driver in this kind of offense.

 

Robert on the other hand is a play making QB that has the raw talent to make plays that are simply not there for other QB's to make.  He is in the Aaron Rodgers scale. (No I am not suggesting he is on that level). He has the athletic ability to make big plays when they aren't initially there.  His ability to extend plays, often allows WRs to break free downfield when the initial play was covered.  His cannon arm and athleticism are playmaking tools only a handful of QB's have, however some of his fundamentals at being a QB are not as sound as a traditional passer yet.

 

So there is tradeoff with both guys, and the organization is going to have to make the decision which one is a better option for the future because I highly doubt holding onto both will be an option beyond next season.

[Garcon More Wine]

if our defense continues to be this bad against good offenses it wont matter.  D and ST lost our game yesterday, not kirk or anyone on O (maybe forbath).  cant give up 37 including a ST TD on the road in the division and expect to win.

 

the soft zone crap we played yesterday was no bueno.  i was at the game, they had guys open (like wide open) on most plays.  the gameplan was clearly "make lesean mccoy look like quinton ganther" and we got that working, but man did foles just have his way with us.

[Stadium-Armory]

Lol there was something he could do about it. He had the ball at the eagles 41 with a chance to win the game or tie it.

 

The failed run on fist down didn't do much to put him in a position to suceed. If we had gained 3 or 4 yards on that play the defensive posture would have been different the remaining downs.  He was behind the 8-ball from there on out.

 

Add: I don't disagree with the call per se, we only needed a few yards to be in better field goal position. But damn we needed to gain some yards there.

[fearlessNelms]

The verdict is still out on if Cousins is a clutch performer. I think the concerns of if he is or will be that kind of QB are valid and shouldn't be brushed off as nonsense, as some are doing. The kid stuck some unbelievable throws through the first three + quarters, but then seemingly couldn't hit the side of a house with the money on the line. Yesterday's loss was by no means on Cousins, as he was great for most of the game. But as well as he played, his misreads and poor decisions he made in the 4th quarter shouldn't go unnoticed.

 

I like Cousins alot and get that it was only his 6th start. But the tone for your career can be set early on and the guys that are known for being clutch guys are the same guys that were pretty much clutch from day one. It wouldn't hurt Kirk to get a 4th quarter comeback win under his belt the next time the opportunity presents itself, because if he fails the next time, it could become a mental thing and the start of a bad pattern when it comes to game winning drives. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

 

s

Does suck that the offense couldn't gain 10 yards to put them in FG range but I think it's way too early to say Kirk is a choker ala romoSUCKS. Sample size is too small,....just can't buy into that comparison yet.

Let's see how he does the next 5conversation94x4-6 games, as well as the team in general. He's the least of my worries right now.

 

5conversation94x4-6? so confused.

[PlayAction]

Wow.  The QB throws for over 400 yards 3 TDs and I INT and we are asking whether he's clutch or choker in the 4th quarter.  After his first start playing for a team that thinks it has potential.  LOL!!!

 

Question on the INT - did Niles complete his route? 

 

Question on the 4th down play - the WR turned in and it would have been a great play if Cousins had led him with the ball.  The ball was thrown behind him early in the turn.  Was the WR supposed to turn in to cross the field or was he supposed to turn out toward the sidelines to run out of bounds when needed?

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Too early to say he isn't clutch but he is a very different QB than Griff. Kirk is better on schedule, Robert is better when the play breaks down. Robert has a higher ceiling if he can stay healthy and continue to develop but that is a big if. If Robert doesn't get better than you go with Kirk because he can win games right now if he plays even 75 percent as well as he did yesterday. I still need to see Kirk face a real pass rush and still produce. I also still need to see him leading drives in the 2 minute to win. .  I like Kirk and whichever way we go is fine with me as long as we get value for the one we decide to give up because it is going to become an untenable situation soon.

What constitutes a "real pass rush" and how many actually exist in the NFL?

[Taylor703]

What constitutes a "real pass rush" and how many actually exist in the NFL?

One that doesn't make Tyler Polumbus and his back up look like Anthony Munoz.

[JSSkinz]

Well at least we have moved from "can Cousins play Qb" to "Is Cousins a clutch performer", only time will tell but the Baltimore and Cleveland game in 2012 were definitely clutch, we had to win those games and he came through.

 

Its tough to tell which Qb's are going to be clutch, look at Peyton Manning, people think he is a football God but he curls into the fetal position when big games are on the line.