Is Kirk Cousins Clutch? Does he have the moxy to lead a 4th Quarter comeback?

[Dan T.]

Griffin would have waited for Garcon to clear the CB, which may have disrupted the throw or led to a sack if there was pressure on the play.

 

No, Griffin would have pulled the ball down and run for 30 yards, setting up an easy TD run for Helu or the Butler.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

VOR pretty much wins the thread there

Also can clutch be attributed to one person in a game like football? I feel like a team is more appropriate to be labeled clutch than a player.

[Gregpeck99]

I agree with Moondog ... the play calling on that last series was way too conservative ...

 

Two other observations:

 

1.  Kirk's usually deadly boot was missing from game plan.

 

2.  Foles killed us on the faux-spread-option plays ... why doesn't Kirk have this in his game? 

 

Either of these "solutions" would have worked on that last series IMO.

 

Ahhhh ... the clarity of 20--20 hindsight.

 

Thursday's game against the gints is "our Super Bowl."

[SkinInsite]

Here's the final 3 in-completion

 

 

Looks like if Cousins waited he could have Paul open in the middle

 

 

 

 

This one hurt, if the pass is on target Roberts could have a lot of room to run

 

 

 

 

I think Garcon should have changed the route, Cousins saw the inside coverage and threw out. Just not on the same page but that'll come with time.

[PortisBetts]

Let him get into this situation 5-6 times and see how he responds. Hard to see it after 1 game. He is 1-2 in these situations. He did it against the Ravens, not so much yesterday (although he still played amazing yesterday and is probably going to start a true qb controversy if he continues to play this way)

[Prototype]

People want to use special teams, the defense, missed FGs, penalties, etc etc as excuses for Kirk.

BUT DESPITE ALL THE AFOREMENTIONED, he still had a chance to win or at the very least tie the freaking game by gaining 11 1/2 yards on that last drive. He blew it. Sad to say after otherwise a stellar performance, but he blew it. No way around that fact

[jtown]

skininsite , thanks for posting those vids.  Garcon did have double coverage and was not wide open.  It was a bad pass but still , im not gonna complain too much.  I think the only thing u can criticize him about those final plays is that he could have waited more .  He had a ton of time and couldve waited for something to develop.  

[Jandre002]

 Lets give Cousins some time to get in sync with the offense, mainly the WR/TE communication.  He played very well yesterday, not perfect, but very well; and i'd challenge anyone to find a great QB past or present who hasn't thrown a pic late in a game; it happens, get over it.

 

 Everyone was ready to give Griffin a year or 2 to become a 'pocket passer', yet they don't want to give Cousins 2 games; 2 meaningful games, not games at the end of a season where we're far removed from playoff contention.

 

I would like to say he does, but honestly, none of us really know; it looks promising, but until there is proof and/or time to prove/disprove, this is a moot topic.

 

The guy threw for 427 years and 3 TDs. I don't think he needs time to sync with anything lol. The throw to Pierre wasn't a sync issue either, it was just a flat out throw. He admitted in his conference it was his footwork and balance that caused him to miss.

 

I think its just a mental aspect of his play, which is why he throws so many interceptions even though he seems to be pretty accurate and goes through his progressions so well.

 

One thing I heard during Gruden's presser that I thought was interesting is that he believes Kirk gets too antsy in the pocket and gets rid of the ball TOO QUICKLY. I think thats something too watch. We criticize RG3 for holding the ball too long waiting for the play to develop, but it could be that Kirk gets rid of the ball too quickly instead of waiting for routes to develop.

 

It's crazy to think about with him getting 427 yards, but it could be that Kirk left yards on the field because he didn't let routes develop enough.

[Destino]

Cousins throws to a spot.  Troy "time route" Aikman was talking about how early, sometimes too early, Kirk releases the ball.  Consider that for a moment.  The only way he can do that is if he recognizes the defense either before the snap are half a second afterwards.  When the game gets crazy late in 4th and defensive coordinators start pulling out their best stuff to hold onto a lead, Kirk can be confused and made to hesitate.  He doesn't have the experience or the familiarity for that yet. 

 

Kirk is not very good at simply buying time and hitting a receiver when he comes open.  RG3 is much better at that and he has the better arm strength that helps him do it. 

 

It shouldn't come as a surprise that he isn't a finished product.  It does look like he's improved since last season though doesn't it?  So there are some things to feel good about.  He should probably pick up Manning's trick of throwing the ball at the ground when a play is blown dead to avoid getting hit by someone that "didn't hear the whistle". 

[sempre_victrix]

I think that Kirk throws to a spot in the route and if the receiver changes his route based on coverage, it goes incomplete or picked.  The throw to Rberts over the middle is agoogd example.  He threw to where Roberts was going to be, and was.  Roberts failed to get his head around in time.

 

Who knows with the Garcon throw?  Maybe it was a bad throw, maybe they were on a different page.

 

What I do know is this kid has got to get lots of reps with these receivers so that they trust one another and they are where they are supposed to be when the ball arrives.  They need to trust that he is going to put the ball in the correct spot.

 

I am very encouraged by his play thus far.  He seems to be able to throw to a receiver before he comes out of a break, which is something I think RG3 has troulble with.

[Mad Mike]

That last drive failed IMO because of a coaching decision. Not that I'm slamming Gruden. He's done an awesome job. But I believe he made a mistake and told Cousins to try to milk the clock with short passes believing we could do that and still score. I believe that the plays that were called were intended to do just that. I'm sure it sounded like a good strategy but in the end we would have been better off just scoring and putting it on the eagles to come back and score again themselves. Our D was playing well at that point. 

 

NO I have no proof. I'm just basing my opinion on the plays that were called.

 

Either way we would not have even been in the game if it were not for Cousins. Now matter how you slice it, he is playing at an ELETE level.

 

In 2012 RG3 threw 20 TDs  in 15 games with an average yards per game of 213.

In 2014 Kirk has thrown 5 TDs in 2 games with an average yards per game of 338.  

 

At this rate, Cousins will have thrown more TDs in 9 games than RG3 did in an entire season. 

 

Trade RG3 (someone will gamble and pay big), wish him the best of luck and use what picks we can get to rebuild our secondary. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

Could've had a game winning drive last year against the Falcons too. Yesterday was a good learning experience, just need to execute better.

he did have a game winning drive last year against the falcons. its just that mike shanahan decided to go for 2 instead of just kicking the easy extra point attempt which if we had done that, everyone would have been singing kirks praise. missing the 2 point conversion doesnt cancel out what he did to get us the TD.

[Mad Mike]

The guy threw for 427 years and 3 TDs. I don't think he needs time to sync with anything lol. The throw to Pierre wasn't a sync issue either, it was just a flat out throw. He admitted in his conference it was his footwork and balance that caused him to miss.

 

I think its just a mental aspect of his play, which is why he throws so many interceptions even though he seems to be pretty accurate and goes through his progressions so well.

 

One thing I heard during Gruden's presser that I thought was interesting is that he believes Kirk gets too antsy in the pocket and gets rid of the ball TOO QUICKLY. I think thats something too watch. We criticize RG3 for holding the ball too long waiting for the play to develop, but it could be that Kirk gets rid of the ball too quickly instead of waiting for routes to develop.

 

It's crazy to think about with him getting 427 yards, but it could be that Kirk left yards on the field because he didn't let routes develop enough.

 

Forget last year. Last year RG3 threw 12 interceptions. let me say that again...TWELVE interceptions to 16 TDs. The entire team sucked and we didn't have this kind of receiving corps.  THIS YEAR he has thrown for 5 TDs  677 yard and ONE interception. 

 

As for him getting rid of the ball too quickly... that's much better than getting rid of it too late. Or doing something stupid like running out of bounds for a big loss rather than trow it away.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

he did have a game winning drive last year against the falcons. its just that mike shanahan decided to go for 2 instead of just kicking the easy extra point attempt which if we had done that, everyone would have been singing kirks praise. missing the 2 point conversion doesnt cancel out what he did to get us the TD.

 

Actually, if they had kicked the extra point, that would have been the game tying drive, not a game-winning one.

Forget last year. Lat year RG3 threw 12 interceptions. let me say that again...TWELVE. The entire team sucked and we didn't have this kind of receiving corps.  THIS YEAR he has thrown for 5 TDs  677 yard and ONE interception. 

 

As for him getting rid of the ball too quickly... that's much better than getting rid of it too late. Or doing something stupid like running out of bounds for a big loss rather than trow it away.

 

Not if getting rid of the ball too quickly causes 1) an INT or 2) an incompletion that could have been a 1st down (or more) due to the WR not expecting the ball that quickly.

[Cooleyfan1993]

Actually, if they had kicked the extra point, that would have been the game tying drive, not a game-winning one.

 

Not if getting rid of the ball too quickly causes 1) an INT or 2) an incompletion that could have been a 1st down (or more) due to the WR not expecting the ball that quickly.

good point. but i still think the failed 2 point conversion shouldnt cancel out what kirk did to get us within a point of a tied game. i yelled all the curse words known to man when we failed the 2 points, since they are much less likely than getting, say, 1 point to bring the game to overtime.

[joejccva71]

A couple thoughts before I delve into some quote:

 

- Cousins had quite a few late game heroics in college.  

- He came in completely cold in the Ravens game in a critical position and threw a beautiful TD to preserve the season

- He has started 2 meaningful games (I throw all of 2013 away for both Griffin and Cousins as though it didn't happen.) Played pretty well in both, starting in a reserve role, which isn't easy.

 

Is he clutch? No idea.  Ask me after he has 3-4 years of starting experience.  

 

Also, in my opinion, Cousins didn't have a great last drive, but Gruden had a worse drive.  That was the first time the entire game where it looked like Gruden was a first time HC, trying to balance play-calling, time management, etc.  And they didn't do a great job of any of it.  Play calling was suspect. Tried to work the outside with 3 TOs.  Running a play on 1st down that hadn't worked all day. 

 

I think that was the one time Gruden didn't do a good job in game.  Again, I'm not calling for him to be fired, it's his 3rd game.  But he'll look at it, and probably learn from it.  He's coached 3 games, expecting him to be Joe Gibbs (I) in a tight situation is probably not fair.  

You can expect a QB, and an offense, to drive the ball and get a tying FG when the D/ST has set them up on the +41.  Regardless of what has come before it. That was the situation that presented itself.  The offense, and Cousins, had the opportunity to be heroes.  They couldn't pull it off.  

 

That is not a referendum about anybody.  It's just simply fact. 

 

It really wasn't.  The game was lost because the offense couldn't score in the final 2 minutes when they were set up on the +41.  They had the opportunity to go in and either tie or win the game.  Everything else is irrelevant.  That's the position you want to be in against a tough team on the road.  If you gave 31 HCs in the NFL a chance to take down by 3 at the 41, 3 TOs + the 2 min warning against the Eagles in Phily, I think all 31 take that and just skip the rest of the game.  

 

I refuse to answer the "clutch" question because of this. 5 starts, 1-1 in the meaningful starts.  

 

The pass to Helu was pretty good, actually.  

 

 

 

I have to ask: Why do you ALWAYS have to bring up how bad you think Griffin is to support your position that Cousins is the second coming of Joe Montana? You have NO IDEA what griffin would have done. You don't know what the game plan would have been.  You don't know if maybe his athletic ability might have frozen the defense and opened up more big plays.  You don't know how well he might have played.  You have absolutely no idea. You can't have any idea because Griffin was probably watching the game with his wife and dog from his living room, and wasn't even in Phily.  

 

You like Cousins.  Fine.  Trumpet how good he was yesterday.  But why in the name of all that is Holy do you feel the need to tear down a guy with a dislocated ankle who PLAYS FOR YOUR TEAM.  That is, assuming you are actually a 'Skins fan, and not just a Cousins fan.

 

I think you're right when the pocket gets messy (which can be said about every QB ever), but late in games, I am not sure that's what it effects it. 

 

Because Griffin has proven that he cannot stay healthy.  You can't help a team if you're continously on the bench.  What part of that don't you understand?  

 

Does Cousins need to win the Super Bowl for you people to get onboard?  Or are you just blind RG3 fanboys.

[Mad Mike]

 

No, Griffin would have pulled the ball down and run for 30 yards, setting up an easy TD run for Helu or the Butler.

 

Wishful thinking. Griffin hasn't looked CLOSE to being able to make any sort of long run since his knee injury.  

[SkinInsite]

Kirk is most likely the starter the rest of the season, there's really no need to pile on RG3 while he's injured.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

[Mad Mike]

Actually, if they had kicked the extra point, that would have been the game tying drive, not a game-winning one.

 

Not if getting rid of the ball too quickly causes 1) an INT or 2) an incompletion that could have been a 1st down (or more) due to the WR not expecting the ball that quickly.

 

And what about taking sacks or simply not throwing to the open receiver? We have seen both extremes this year with RG3 and Cousins. Which one has worked out better?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

In 2012 RG3 threw 20 TDs  in 15 games with an average yards per game of 213.

In 2014 Kirk has thrown 5 TDs in 2 games with an average yards per game of 338.  

 

At this rate, Cousins will have thrown more TDs in 5 games than RG3 did in an entire season. 

 

 

A lot of people need new calculators around here lol...

 

5 TDs in two games extrapolated out to five games would mean 12 TDs.

 

Last I checked, 12 TDs << 20 TDs.

 

And for the record, RG3 threw 8 TDs in a 5 day span in 2012. Extrapolated out, that would mean he would throw 64 TDs in a season. But extrapolating things out never, EVER matches reality. So as of right now Cousins has thrown 5 TDs in 2 games. He has yet to throw more TDs than RG3 has in an entire season. Until he does, let's not just assume that he will and run with it as if fact.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

It's too early to have this conversation.

Cousins missed throws and didn't look hot

In the end but again, it's early and he needs more chances to see what he's got in these situations.

However, I'm checking out of this thread when one of the biggest Griffin bashers and complainers about his ypa in week 1 is going to credit Cousins for a 55 yard screen pass and call it one of his best passes of the day.

Objectivity -> out window

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Wishful thinking. Griffin hasn't looked CLOSE to being able to make any sort of long run since his knee injury.  

 

Then he would have only run it for 10 yards (which he's already done this season). That would have at least gotten the team into FG range...which would have been more than what Cousins achieved.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Wishful thinking. Griffin hasn't looked CLOSE to being able to make any sort of long run since his knee injury.

He has a few last season in Dallas and Chicago

[StephenDavis]

whoa man? A miracle? 

 

We got the ball on the Eagles 41 yard line. All he needed to do to tie the game is go about 20 yards. Far from a miracle. He choked, flat out. I love the kid, but you can not dispute that. I'm not discrediting what was an amazing, amazing performance, but he choked on that last drive. 

Yeah technically he choked, but all QB's do. Bottom line is he doesn't have much starting experience and he put us in a position to have a chance at the end. He still had a good game even though we could not establish a run game. So as much as I hate he couldn't lead us to a victory that's not why we lost.