Moving Towards our Future Front Office and Coaching Hires. All the Way to the Water Boy - Adam Peters Hired as GM! The Mighty Quinn is HC Kliff Kingsbury as OC. Joe Whitt jr at DC.

[wit33]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If lets say someone else offered you twice the money and twice the power to return to your home state -- might be tempting

 

10000%
 

This has consistently been my argument – money, power, and the length of the contract are significant factors. It's why I never discounted Dan in negotiations, and he demonstrated that repeatedly over the years.

 

My concern is, if a first-time coach is pursuing those aspects, it could be potentially risky. Even if he’s considering that it could be a red flag 🚩 as you like to put it. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Marty on national TV basically said Dan was a bad guy and would never work for him.  Not that long after Dan offered him a big contract and full control and Marty changed his tune.  

Frequently, that's the dynamic of the business. In many instances, wielding this type of power often involves securing compensation for multiple family members as well.

[redskin301]

How do you guys think peters will be as gm

Aggressive in FA or bulid more through the draft? 

[Llevron]

16 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Exactly 

You sure got him lol 

[mhd24]

6 minutes ago, redskin301 said:

How do you guys think peters will be as gm

Aggressive in FA or bulid more through the draft? 

We have to spend money on FA.  With a rookie qb and his relatively small salary, we’ll go buck wild relatively speaking this year

[Llevron]

6 minutes ago, redskin301 said:

How do you guys think peters will be as gm

Aggressive in FA or bulid more through the draft? 

If he is going to be successful then I would hope he is aggressively calculated with both. We will see. But the most recent organization he worked for I would describe that way and they had great success with it. 

[Riggo#44]

11 minutes ago, Llevron said:

You sure got him lol 

It’s called disengaging. Some people just aren’t worth the effort

[clskinsfan]

31 minutes ago, wit33 said:

If the coach is aiming for complete control, I'll decline that proposition anyway.

That is already gone here. Thank god. Whoever comes to coach will have, at best, a cooperative group of people to talk to when it comes to players. And that is what wins when you dont have an established HOF qb.

[Llevron]

10 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

It’s called disengaging. Some people just aren’t worth the effort

I mean it doesn’t have to be that adversarial….y’all just have different opinions and if we aren’t willing to be swayed one way or the other that’s fine too. 
 

But I do understand to a degree, I guess. 

[kingdaddy]

52 minutes ago, redskin301 said:

How do you guys think peters will be as gm

Aggressive in FA or bulid more through the draft? 

No clue but imagine his excitement on what he has to play with....I'd have to say he'll do both, who wouldn't? He has every resource a GM could want to build a team even including a couple of veterans who he could trade if he so desires. I'm really interested in seeing the coach and coordinators they bring in, especially the DC. I'm so sick of seeing vanilla defenses with soft coverage. 

But to answer your question, both, and we'll model what SF is doing I'm sure, in many ways.

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, redskin301 said:

How do you guys think peters will be as gm

Better than the last 20 years of nightmares we have lived through guaranteed.

[LetThePointsSoar]

4 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Miami isn’t moving on from their coach after they stink it up tonight if the frozen tundra of Arrowhead.

 

Chiefs aren’t moving on from Andy. Andy though could join the retirement parade but when you have Mahomes, why retire?

 

 

Who knows about Miami, but I live in KC territory, and a lot of the local beat reports have Reid retiring at the end of this season. 

[HTTRDynasty]

Interesting thread on the Ravens message board:

 

Monken or MacDonald, If You Can Only Keep One?  https://forum.russellstreetreport.com/showthread.php?257665-Monken-or-MacDonald-If-You-Can-Only-Keep-One&s=8fa5f51e9cc9503c0d1164451a7446c9

 

I think it mirrors the discussion we’ve had here in a lot of ways when it comes to the importance of prioritizing offense over defense for your young franchise QB. As well-respected as MacDonald seems to be, continuity at OC is more important in their mind, coming from a fanbase who has lived with the year-to-year change in offensive systems and playbooks. It would likely be similar here if MacDonald were to become our HC and we had to keep changing OCs year after year.
 

Don’t get me wrong though. The Ravens are a great organization and have seen a lot of success in their current model with Harbaugh, but I do wonder how much more successful they would have been if they had had someone like Kyle Shanahan as HC since Lamar’s rookie year and let him grow into a transformative offensive system over time - I think they’d have multiple SBs by now. 

 

Some highlights from the thread:

 

• “We need Monken to stay. We have never really had a solid offensive coordinator stay on staff for more than one season, and we have never been able to develop continuity on that side of the ball. So, we need him to stay to continue developing our players and staff within his scheme. I want to see Lamar in year 2 in Monken's offense. Might look like the jump Neo takes from the first Matrix movie to the second's”
• “In terms of the thread question, there's honestly no good choice and there's a good reason to choose either one.
  
  For Monken - The offense seems to have finally clicked down the line. It seems like players finally understood the scheme/plays in the second half of the season and they've been dominant. In this situation you let MacDonald walk since the Ravens have been better at getting DCs than OCs. When you pay a QB a quarter billion, you keep the OC he seems to like.
  
  For MacDonald - You keep him because he's a young DC who's taken a defense with a few elite players and a ton of very good players and has the entire defense breaking records. You let Monken walk because LJ8 has proven he can work any system, contrary to the offseason "he won't succeed in a non-Roman offense" talk. Find another OC who's strong in the pass game because the run game is practically a guaranteed top 5 or 10 unit with Lamar at QB
  
  My choice would be MacDonald. I feel like he's gotten more out of his players than Monken did. There are multiple defenders having the best season of their careers, including vets that have been around like Clowney and Van Noy. Meanwhile, outside of Lamar, the only offensive player that can be argued is playing beyond their career level is Likely I guess. And that's probably just from opportunity. For Lamar, one side could argue he's been throwing better thanks to Monken, while another side will argue it's because he's out of G-Ro's bad pass scheme and has actual talent at WR.
  
  So yeah, I'd still with MacDonald”
• “Monken. All respect to Mac, I've called him the GOAT Ravens D coordinator on this board, but this offense works for 8 and I don't want our third playbook in 3 years”
• “Monken. Harbs ain't going nowhere anytime soon. You can tell he loves his job and has no plans of hanging it up. He might want to go another 5 plus years. Or as long as Lamar is still on the team playing well. Which means MM is not waiting that long for an opportunity.
  
  They will just cycle in another in house person for DC.
  
  Monken seems like he's just getting started with the offense. It will be awesome for Lamar to master Monkens offense and the tweaks they will make to cater to his skill set. I mean, 1st team allpro and probably MVP in first year in offense. Imagine the possibilities if given the chance to grow more in Monkens offense. Easy choice.”

 

Edited January 14 by HTTRDynasty

[MartinC]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah my fear is he pulls on early years Dan move.  Marty you say you wouldn't work for me.  How about a pay you more than any other team would AND give you personnel control. 

 

Tepper seems so desperate to get Ben Johnson, I wonder if an everything and the kitchen sink lures him to go back to his home state.

If I was a young hot shot OC getting my opportunity to be an NFL head coach I wouldn’t want personnel control. I’d know I need someone who I can work with and who I have a shared vision of what we are trying to put on the field philosophically to help me get the best talent available. I’d want to know who the GM is and how good the scouting is - but I would know that I have enough on my plate stepping into the big chair coaching without trying to take on everything.

 

If there is not a GM already in post that would be a red flag. If they just picked a QB #1 overall I’d have to like him as a fit for what I want to do, or have a plan for how I can work with him.

 

Ownership also really matters. We know that.

 

I don’t see the Panthers as an attractive option personally.

 

 

[redskin301]

My 1st choice for HC would be Jim Harbaugh 

can really turn the team around quick 

[BurgundyBooger]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If lets say someone else offered you twice the money and twice the power to return to your home state -- might be tempting

Might be tempting but it might also be short-sighted.
 

I’m sure he’d be compensated handsomely and enjoy a sound quality of life, but there’s a higher risk that his career would stall and his reputation diminished if his relationship with such an ill-tempered and unpredictable owner deteriorates and culminates in his abrupt firing. By then, he wouldn’t be a hot commodity, a new cluster of offensive gurus could emerge, and people will have forgotten about his bright stint in Detroit. Financial achievement can breed failure if money is one’s primary focus and motivation. If it’s the promise of personnel control that entices him, then it’s even more prudent for us to analyze our commitment to such a person who has yet coached an entire team much less been responsible for its composition.

[Starry Plough]

To the point that money & power/control has huge sway I completely agree. Not to mention Johnson could be someone who sees Carolina being a huge challenge and one to be embraced. But I’d hope 2 decades of Dans personality playing out in front of the entire NFL world would make anyone with an ounce of concern for their own reputation draw even some comparisons to Tepper, even if it’s not a complete apples-and-apples scenario.
 

Again then, one has just allowed a HC to see out a full season despite it being an embarrassment, whilst the other cut his 3rd HC in 6 years loose with 6 games left after saddling him with a QB who he may not have wanted, not to mention any subsequent HC has the task of rebuilding (in contrast to anyone coming here having the choice of hand picked QB to mould from the get-go) and with limited resources to do so. 
 

In short, Tepper may well go all out to get his guy whether that’s Johnson or someone else, but as mentioned Dans legacy should be a cautionary tale that guys who do indeed get what they want through promises of money & power/control are often also incredibly impatient and fickle who can drastically set a HC’s career back if things don’t go the way an owner wants or and become enamoured with another shiny new toy - think when Mr Burns hired Frank Grimes only to replace him a short time later with a heroic dog he took a liking too. 😏

19 minutes ago, BurgundyBooger said:

I’m sure he’d be compensated handsomely and enjoy a sound quality of life, but there’s a higher risk that his career would stall and his reputation diminished if his relationship with such an ill-tempered and unpredictable owner deteriorates and culminates in his abrupt firing. By then, he wouldn’t be a hot commodity, a new cluster of offensive gurus could emerge, and people will have forgotten about his bright stint in Detroit. Financial achievement can breed failure if money is one’s primary focus and motivation. If it’s the promise of personnel control that entices him, then it’s even more prudent for us to analyze our commitment to such a person who has yet coached an entire team much less been responsible for its composition.

Just seen not only did you get in front of me BB, mate, but also articulated it much better. 🤣

[FrFan]

9 hours ago, redskin301 said:

How do you guys think peters will be as gm

Aggressive in FA or bulid more through the draft? 

 

I don't know, the draft class is loaded with talented QB, WR, CB, OT. I believe that's where he will focus, in the end getting a good balance between rookies and FAs

He might bring in a few niners free agents such as Oren Burks, Jon Feliciano. Plug and play guys who can also bring the niners culture.

 

What I found on the niners forum :

• NCommand Hall of Fame  Posts: 121,698

"You can fail as much as we have in the 1st-3rd rounds in 7 years when you hit homeruns in the 5th-UDFA's. That's the literal point of discussing Adam Peters loss as most fans believe he was instrumental in putting the system together for identifying those gems.

Lynch himself said he has AP and others put in their wish list at the end of day 2, for day 3 picks and many of those guys got picked. So it's reasonable to infer from that, AP is a big part of that process as it's been wildly consistent esp. compared to the first few rounds which have been boom or massive bust and those picks can easily be tied to Kyle and John b/c of their GM (power) roles and philosophy for their systems (Trey Lance, Javon Kinlaw, Reuben Foster, Joe Williams, Jalen Hurd, etc.). We need to be more objective in here and tow the company line less. Like you said, this isn't unique to just SF so no need for a insta-defense. "

 

 

Edited January 14 by FrFan

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, MartinC said:

If I was a young hot shot OC getting my opportunity to be an NFL head coach I wouldn’t want personnel control. I’d know I need someone who I can work with and who I have a shared vision of what we are trying to put on the field philosophically to help me get the best talent available. I’d want to know who the GM is and how good the scouting is - but I would know that I have enough on my plate stepping into the big chair coaching without trying to take on everything.

 

If there is not a GM already in post that would be a red flag. If they just picked a QB #1 overall I’d have to like him as a fit for what I want to do, or have a plan for how I can work with him.

 

Ownership also really matters. We know that.

 

I don’t see the Panthers as an attractive option personally.

 

 

 

Might not be personnel control, might be something like he can pick his GM.  Main reason why I bring it up was Keim when saying why he might choose elsewhere referencing he might get more power-say elsewhere. 

 

Tepper's reputation has been slaughtered by the media.  I get it.  He's perceived to be a joke.  But some national reporters disagree that everyone sees his spot as unattractive.

 

I don't know.  I am just not in the camp that a desperate owner who is rich and is used to getting what he wants really really really wants a specific HC has no shot especially considering it's Ben's home state. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, BurgundyBooger said:

Might be tempting but it might also be short-sighted.
 

I’m sure he’d be compensated handsomely and enjoy a sound quality of life, but there’s a higher risk that his career would stall and his reputation diminished if his relationship with such an ill-tempered and unpredictable owner deteriorates and culminates in his abrupt firing. By then, he wouldn’t be a hot commodity, a new cluster of offensive gurus could emerge, and people will have forgotten about his bright stint in Detroit. Financial achievement can breed failure if money is one’s primary focus and motivation. If it’s the promise of personnel control that entices him, then it’s even more prudent for us to analyze our commitment to such a person who has yet coached an entire team much less been responsible for its composition.

 

My point isn't Carolina is the front runner.  I know my share things about Tepper from being an NFL junkie like most here, I also watch him from time to time on CNBC, so am not flying blind on what makes that spot unattractive.

 

Early Dan Snyder, the dude who early on actually paid big versus the cheap version that we had for most of his regime could often land the big fish.  He'd give the bigger bucks and more power if he needed to.

 

As for how it would be a bad move to take more money and power if offered, its easy for us to say that about someone else.  But would we really do so in their shoes?  I don't know.  Marty was a text book case.  He said he'd never work for Dan.  Soon after he was running that team, I don't believe he ever had personnel control before that or after.

 

And as bad as Tepper is, IMO by reputation he's not nearly as bad as Dan was.  And I gather sparing no expense to do whatever he wants could be a selling point.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think we have a better shot at Johnson versus Tepper.  But i am not discounting Carolina as a threat to get him.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/panthers-david-tepper-isnt-worried-about-money-which-is-evident-by-how-hes-burned-through-it-as-team-owner/

 

The Panthers hired one of the largest and most heralded coaching staffs in the league less than a year ago. Depending on the fates of the remaining staff, Tepper could be on the hook for the remaining contracts of several respected and well-paid assistants.

Tepper is about to embark on a head coach search for the third time in his six years of Panthers ownership, with his sights set on Lions offensive coordinator Ben Johnson. CBS Sports can confirm Tepper has hired a search firm to help with the process. The future of general manager Scott Fitterer is also unclear in Carolina. If Tepper fires Fitterer, he'd potentially have to pay the balance of that contract over time as well as a deal for the new GM.

"He's good for business," said one coaching agent. "Obviously, money means nothing to him."

 

Having some of the deepest pockets in the league is an objective advantage. In a league with incredible parity and a hard salary cap, a team having better financial resources can be beneficial when attracting employees both on and off the field.

And the hedge fund billionaire has plenty of resources. Bloomberg reported this week that Tepper's $17 billion hedge fund made him nearly $2 billion off tech stocks.

But his deep pockets could also leave him vulnerable. CBS Sports previously reported the Panthers' job could be viewed as a "leverage job" to get coaches paid higher salaries elsewhere.

 

Edited January 14 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

10000%
 

This has consistently been my argument – money, power, and the length of the contract are significant factors. It's why I never discounted Dan in negotiations, and he demonstrated that repeatedly over the years.

 

My concern is, if a first-time coach is pursuing those aspects, it could be potentially risky. Even if he’s considering that it could be a red flag 🚩 as you like to put it. 

 

 

Frequently, that's the dynamic of the business. In many instances, wielding this type of power often involves securing compensation for multiple family members as well.

 

I think though there was a difference between early Dan and post Cerrato Dan.  Early Dan would spend.  Post Cerrato Dan was cheap. 

 

Maybe not cheap with HC salary and giving them power.  Though the power was often usurped some by him once the job played out.  And considering how cheap Dan was with the facility and all the trappings around the team he didn't give the vibe to be a dude who will spend whatever it takes.

 

Reading about Tepper for example shrugging off paying assistant coach salaries after the firings as if its nothing -- Dan wasn't the same way.  I recall the stories about how Jay had Dan at hello in his interview when Jay mentioned he wanted to keep that defensive staff.  I've heard multiple times Dan hated to eat salaries of coaches.

 

Early Dan was a very different dude as to spending versus post Cerrato.  Some of that might have been fueled by sales continues to atrophy the deeper we got into that regime and all his failed business ventures.

 

The difference might be Tepper's net worth continues to rise, is much bigger than Dan's ever was, and the net worth isn't dependant on the team like it was with Dan.

Edited January 14 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

It will be interesting to see if more interviews are requested as Peters settles in.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Looking at the 49ers upcoming FAs. LB Oren Burks has been flagged by many in here already before we hired Peters. Good bet we target him … Tashaun Gipson may be a vet we bring in at FS to provide depth if we choose to be economical there. He’s 33. Idk if he’s still performing well or not. Just a name that stuck out in addition to Burks. 
 

Also gotta wonder … given we traded Chase to the 49ers and teams are scared away from him on a LTD due to his ACL, wonder if Peters would be open to bringing him here later in FA as a pass rush specialist if he doesn’t land a big deal early in the cycle. 
 

CB Emmanuel Moseley is a FA on Detroit. If I remember correctly he was drafted by Peters in SF. If we hire Ben Johnson I wonder if he’d be a target as well. 

Edited January 14 by JamesMadisonSkins

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Might not be personnel control, might be something like he can pick his GM.  Main reason why I bring it up was Keim when saying why he might choose elsewhere referencing he might get more power-say elsewhere. 

 

Tepper's reputation has been slaughtered by the media.  I get it.  He's perceived to be a joke.  But some national reporters disagree that everyone sees his spot as unattractive.

 

I don't know.  I am just not in the camp that a desperate owner who is rich and is used to getting what he wants really really really wants a specific HC has no shot especially considering it's Ben's home state. 

Valid points on why Ben could have interest in Carolina...have control of the team and his own offense, home state, break the bank contract, maybe have say in the GM but he would still need to love B Young and hand his hat on him.  Personally, I'd look most anyplace other than there. If you are interested in being around your home state the DC area isn't a huge distance and should appear a better gig in general with new owners, cap space, draft capital....

[Skinsinparadise]

New HC, new QB changed everything.  Banged up O line.  That's not a team that was loaded.  Nico Collins who was nothing until this season among others emerged.

 

Last offseason, the Texans hired DeMeco Ryans and drafted C.J. Stroud. Together, they have executed a football miracle. Watson’s presence Saturday was hardly noticed. He is ancient history, not worth thinking about. The past is irrelevant when the present is so joyful, when the future is limitless.

The Texans’ destruction of the Browns on Saturday delivered another milestone in a season beyond Houston’s dreams. In Ryans, the Texans found a defensive mastermind whose intellect and will reversed a broken culture. In Stroud, they have a 22-year-old quarterback who has an elastic right arm, uncommon vision and the awe of veteran teammates.

 

“He gave this city hope,” said backup quarterback Case Keenum, a Texas native who attended the University of Houston. “He gave this team hope. He gave everybody hope. When he’s back there, we got a chance versus anybody. When the lights come on, man, something just clicks. He’s one of the best physical, mental operators of playing quarterback I’ve ever seen.”

 

...C.J. is the reason why we’re in this position,” Ryans said. “Our whole team is leaning on him, and he has the shoulders to carry that weight.”

From the moment Stroud arrived, Texans veterans understood they had been gifted a precocious quarterback. He organized throwing sessions with older receivers. They saw an arm capable of magic — off-balance throws, perfect deep balls, precise short passes. But they also noticed a magnetism just as essential for a great quarterback.

“I wish you guys could be in the huddle and just around him,” said tight end Brevin Jordan, who had a 76-yard touchdown catch Saturday. “The dude is unbelievable how he moves, how he talks, just everything. You could tell from training camp — he was a captain; he was our starting quarterback. You could just tell how he moved.”

 

...Jordan clarified that he did not mean how Stroud moved on the field. His demeanor, a mix of humility and confidence, united the locker room behind him.

 

Teammates uniformly describe Stroud as humble, but he is also assertive. He voiced his opinion to teammates about what he expected from them and to Slowik and Ryans about what kind of offense he wanted. At one point early in the season, he told Slowik he wanted a running back to shuffle when he went in motion rather than turn and run. He requested extra walk-throughs during the week and faster tempo during games.

 

“It’s C.J.’s team,” wide receiver Robert Woods said. “It’s been that way since Day 1.”

 

“I feel like it’s how I am as a person,” Stroud said. “I’ve been this way since I’ve been a child. I’ve always been the youngest in my family, kind of the one to get picked on. That made me tough, you know? I thank God for my family. What I’ve been through in my life has prepared me to be in a locker room full of men and being a man amongst men. I’m honestly just being myself. I’m not trying to hold people to a standard I’m not holding myself.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2024/01/14/texans-revival-cj-stroud-demeco-ryans-playoffs/

 

Texans HC DeMeco Ryans: 23 injured players 'doesn't stop our process' for preparing for Bengals

https://www.nfl.com/news/texans-hc-demeco-ryans-23-injured-players-doesn-t-stop-our-process-for-preparing

11 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

It will be interesting to see if more interviews are requested as Peters settles in.

 

It's whats expected from Keim and others.  Seems like Wilks almost for sure.  I don't want Wilks has a HC but as a defensive coordinatot it would be fine.

3 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Valid points on why Ben could have interest in Carolina...have control of the team and his own offense, home state, break the bank contract, maybe have say in the GM but he would still need to love B Young and hand his hat on him.  Personally, I'd look most anyplace other than there. If you are interested in being around your home state the DC area isn't a huge distance and should appear a better gig in general with new owners, cap space, draft capital....

 

Just to be clear.  I don't think Carolina is the front runner.  I am just not in the group here who think they have no shot at him.

[DWinzit]

Got it SIP. I just don't see how he goes to Carolina.

 

I would not want Wilks as a HC either. I am hoping he runs a bunch of interviews to make certain he is comfortable with his choice. At the end of the day, he could very well already have a plan in place but we will see. Exciting times for the positive in Washington! 

 

To me the DC options for HC are better by a bit over the OC options. That's what makes it hard for me in choosing the best HC. I do understand it is the teams best interest (with a new QB) to hire an offensive guy just in case the OC is poached next year. I'd say the QB coach will also be key.