2024 NFL Draft Position/Tracker - Final Pick #2

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

What sucks is that our SoS is going to shoot up. Every team we play from here on out will likely finish over .500 except for the Jets. So even if we lose out, we'll probably lose tie breakers.

Most of the 4 win teams around us should be good for another win though making tie breakers meaningless

[Llevron]

I dont feel good about our chances of losing out. Especially against the jets 

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I dont feel good about our chances of losing out. Especially against the jets 

This defense got lit up by Tommy effing Devito. I have no doubts we can lose out.

[CommDownMan]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

What sucks is that our SoS is going to shoot up. Every team we play from here on out will likely finish over .500 except for the Jets. So even if we lose out, we'll probably lose tie breakers.

 

On tankathon, the '?' near the SOS, says using all 17 opponents.   

 

Some changes will happen, but giants playing the eagles and losing should change the SOS calc the same for both teams.   With a lot of common opponents, I don't think it'll be massive changes.  (At least that's how I read that statement).

 

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

My point is you can never have enough weapons and the best teams accumulate talent on offense.

 

The Bengals had Higgins and Boyd and still took Chase top 5.

 

The Cowboys had Cooper and Gallup and still took Lamb.

 

We're the only team that wants to settle for mediocrity on offense. Lets try to be explosive and dynamic.

 

We talk about our history with the Hogs and all that, but we also had the best WR trio ever in the Posse. I wanna recreate THAT because THAT is what wins in today's NFL.

I have no problem with this but the Bengals also can't protect Burrow and he's been hit and hurt a lot.

 

I'm totally with you trying to be explosive and dynamic on offense.  However, protection is just as important as skill position players. It all goes hand in hand.

 

We have to get better at protection at every level of the protection scheme: OL, TE and RB.  (And Howell needs to continue to get the ball out quickly.)

 

Maybe if we have a chance at Harrison, JR. you take it.  But honestly, I want the best LT in the draft.  And one of the top guards.  And I think that might help with explosiveness as well. 

 

I heard the KC GM say after they traded Hill to Miami (let him go, or whatever) instead of trying to find a replacement for Hill, they focused on getting Mahomes an extra beat of time in the pocket, and the offense remained as explosive as it was with Hill.  I think that was last year.  This year, their receivers can't catch a cold, and that's a problem.  But they won a SB with an explosive offense without Hill. 

 

The QB can't wait to throw deep if the ball has to come out in 2.1 seconds before pressure gets there if your OL is trash like ours is.

 

I think the explosive plays will come more regularly with better protection. 

 

Though I'm never against adding weapons, I think it's step 2, not step 1.   

[kingdaddy]

31 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Moss is a 4.65 40 guy. He might have a teeny bit of a 2nd gear, but he's definitely not fast, and I wouldn't say quick either, we have a better more athletic version of the same back (though not terribly impressive to me) in Robinson

I'd bring in Moss as a complement to BRob not a replacement....he has been stellar for Indy. I'd use him as our version of Perine in Denver as a compliment to BRob who wouldn't be a drop off and would attack defenses. I'm in no way looking to move on from BRob, just upgrading the room so to speak.

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Maybe if we have a chance at Harrison, JR. you take it.  But honestly, I want the best LT in the draft. 

We've neglected offensive line for too long now, if Howell is the guy then get the left tackle and ignore Harrison if he falls to us. Sure he may be a great pro but we thought Chase Young would be a game changer for us too. Build the line and take care of Sam. I'm with you on this line of thinking.

[The Consigliere]

12 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

 

They all will, frankly. We could easily have lost each of the Arizona, Denver, and Atlanta games, too.

It's a weird season with a couple of wins that should be losses, but admittedly a couple of losses that should have been wins. Both Giants games we'd probably win normally. The Bears game we'd probably win normally, honestly, amongst the worst performances, all but the Cowboys and Bills games were against the worst teams we played. Quite odd. I think if we replay this season, we probably lose that Denver game, but we also either split or win both of the giants games. So in the end, they mostly reflect kind of where we are. 

[The Consigliere]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

When I was listening to a Bears insider talk about it, the vibe I got is zero chance the Bears are passing over Caleb for Fields.  they supposedly love Caleb.  And even without Caleb in the picture some in that building are done with Fields.  

 

Caleb is one of the more hyped Qb prospects we've had in the last two decades.  The Bears have been in QB purgatory-hell for a long time.  I don't see there being any chance even if I didn't hear that from the Bears insider that they'd pass on Caleb.

 

I liked Fields before the draft.  But if it were me based on what i've seen from Fields, it wouldn't be a tough call at all.  You can't just assume that next year they'd be in the position to take the best QB in the draft.  It's a unique opportunity now. 

 

I think no chance they let it pass them by.   But publicly they won't show that hand publicly and will praise Fields nonstop. I think for all the teams picking high in particular you want to come off like you can do anything.   And the Bears would want something for Fields in a trade.

I liked Fields a lot more than you, and if I were the Bears GM, I wouldn't think twice. Trade fields, draft Caleb or Maye depending upon slotting. Would not think twice. You can't. They didn't help Fields even a little, but Fields rarely showed the bare minimum as a passer to make sense as a long term answer. Still kind of shocked that this is how it turned out for him, reminding you why landing spot matters so much, but unlike Howell, Fields has rarely looked like a QB back there, just an athlete. Not good enough. But they also need to chuck out that F.O. too. 

[Riggo#44]

54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If NE by chance goes Harrison then pick #4 might be prime trade down territory or take Harrison.

 

Our new GM in that scenario:

 

Our current regime in that scenario:

We just need the Giants to inexplicably win 2 more games.

[Voice_of_Reason]

59 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If NE by chance goes Harrison then pick #4 might be prime trade down territory or take Harrison.

I'm sorry, I'm confused by this, maybe I'm just mis-reading it.

 

Which pick does NE have, which pick do we have, and if NE takes Harrison I don't understand the "take Harrison" part at the end...

 

The two parts of the sentence seem to be in conflict or I'm completely missing the point. Which is very possible. 

[The Consigliere]

4 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I agree...its gotten old.

 

At this point I do believe most on here are where you are on need for elite talent at WR to either go with what we have or replace McClaurin.

 

I just believe there's more then one way to do that.  I'm not comfortable with locking ourselves into solving that problem via the draft, in all honesty I'm getting to a point that I want an established veteran in our #1 WR role, so if that means signing one or trading for one versus having to develop one, so be it.

 

Outside of Howell, I've not been comfortable with our player development recently.  A couple players I've seen hit walls or go backwards, this is a recurring problem from one administration to the next.

 

Yeah, I feel burned pretty bad right now when it comes to developing 1st round pick WRs here, admittedly.

The good news with Dotson is that he's probably decent, he's not a Doctson, Howard, level bust, he may end up being more in that Rod Gardner/Michael Westbrook level of disappointments, or he may prove out. Rookie year was promising, this year has been a HUGe disappointment, time will tell. I tend to not know how to evaluate performance this year because the OL has been so awful and playcalling has been pretty odd. We'll have a better idea with Dotson by the end of next year, but for now anyway, he is what he seemed at the time, a disappointing reach, just like Jamin before, and just like Forbes (especially considering Gonzalez was available) was this year. We have a FO that needs firing. You can't miss this consistently with reaches in round 1 and outright in round 2 and survive. 

3 hours ago, FrFan said:

Top EDGEs in the 2024 NFL Draft: Ranking Dallas Turner, Laiatu Latu, Jared Verse, and Others

I'm intrigued by Turner would he be worth the pick or another bama bust ?

I like Latu's consistency.

Bama guys tend to have maxed out ceilings. I'd consistently rather look in other directions, and I just am fed up drafting defenders in general. We've given almost the entirety of our 1st round selections since '17 to defense. It's time the O got attention, but honestly, that's not entirely rational, I just would prefer we go OT, WR, or QB. The Defense is gonna take forever to fix and will age out of what little talent is there, if we fix the OL, we can have a competent offense pretty quickly, fixing the defense will take years and by the time we fix it around Allen and Payne, they'll be beyond old and need replacing themselves. Its trying to build a sand castle too close to the water at the beach. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

You know what's interesting, on a slightly side-note?  

 

It's really possible that outside of the division, we're only going to play 2 playoff teams: the 49ers and Dolphins.  With the maybes being the Bills (6-6), Seattle (6-5) and Denver (6-5), who could make it. Bills and Denver are on the outside looking in, Seattle is the current 6 seed in the NFC. 

 

Actually, Atlanta is currently winning their division at 5-6.  So I guess there's a chance they make it. I still think the Saints should win that division. Carr is better than Ridder.  Somebody is going to win that division and get clobbered by the Cowboys in the first round of the playoffs.

 

But of the 11 non-division games, based on current standing, there are only 3 teams in the playoffs we will play this season, and Atlanta with a losing record is one of them.

 

We also played Arizona, Chicago and NE.  Which are currently the three teams with the top 3 picks in the draft.  Granted, the Bears are there because of a trade, but they stink anyway.

 

Denver is the weird one.  When we played them, they were PUTRID.  Not they're one of the hottest teams in the NFL.  

 

I don't think that "harder schedule" thing really worked out the way people were fretting about it in July/August. CAVEAT: the Cowboys and Eagles automatically make the SOS look tough because they have 4 losses between them. It's the outside the division games which I don't think worked out to be as hard as anticipated. Granted, we still lost the games to the crappy teams.

[FrFan]

5 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Bama guys tend to have maxed out ceilings. I'd consistently rather look in other directions, and I just am fed up drafting defenders in general. We've given almost the entirety of our 1st round selections since '17 to defense. It's time the O got attention, but honestly, that's not entirely rational, I just would prefer we go OT, WR, or QB. The Defense is gonna take forever to fix and will age out of what little talent is there, if we fix the OL, we can have a competent offense pretty quickly, fixing the defense will take years and by the time we fix it around Allen and Payne, they'll be beyond old and need replacing themselves. Its trying to build a sand castle too close to the water at the beach. 

If there is a Micah Parsons available by the time we pick, would you resist the temptation ?

As you mentioned going OT would be the safest way, we will see what the new regime will do depending on our position comes draft day.

[The Consigliere]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It would make 6 of the last 8 drafts, favoring defense in the first two round picks in an offense driven league.

 

I was listening to a cap guy from PFF on Galdi's podcast today, his point is over the years this team hasn't been bad at drafting but has been bad at where to allocate resources money wise and draft pick wise.

And not to gripe too much, but it's one of the things I ****ed in here about, and was right about. You have nailed a lot of my misses over the years, but one thing the smart analytics guys get, is how to allocate draft capital and FA money intelligently, and that is absolutely something you are not doing when you take LB's top 20, or take Najee Harris like a bunch of people wanted a few years ago high. 1st round draft picks should be allocated to very specific positions, especially high firsts (DL, OT, QB, DB, and WR), you don't even consider LB's inside the top 15 or rb's EVER. We have consistently wasted draft capital and simply gone after needs, ignoring how FA resigning cost, and career horizon/age clifs work. We've ignored basically all the tiebreakers and rules of thumb with picks and on top of that, also reached for specific guys on top of not only taking the position too early, but also taking the player in the position too early if you get my meaning. 

 

I would say a more accurate assessment would be, the team was pretty decent on day 3, pretty good in round 3 of day 2, awful on day round 2 of day 2 and in round 1. 

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Hopefully Dallas has something to play for.    They are tied with Detroit and the 49ers right now record wise.  If that holds up, home field advantage for the tie breaker?

I assumed that Detroit and the Niners would automatically get hosting duties as division winners, am I wrong about that? 

[Warhead36]

One thing I hope Harris really improves is asset utilization/maximization.

 

No more trading guys like Trent Williams for mid round picks.

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd rather have the 4th pick in the first then a higher 2nd.  

 

I don't see teams trading away Caleb or Drake.  I also don't see NE not taking a QB.  My gut is Daniels moves up the board, maybe Penix, maybe Nix but if I had to bet on one I'd go Daniels.   So I am guessing lets say the Pats pick 3, i think they might go Daniels.  If NE by chance goes Harrison then pick #4 might be prime trade down territory or take Harrison.

I think my key issue is paranoia that the worst of both scenarios happen. Our 2nd becomes worst AND Chicago still picks ahead of us. Otoh, they really do have nothing but winnable games (Detroit game is a question mark). 

[The Consigliere]

26 minutes ago, FrFan said:

If there is a Micah Parsons available by the time we pick, would you resist the temptation ?

As you mentioned going OT would be the safest way, we will see what the new regime will do depending on our position comes draft day.

I'm still annoyed about the rumors back then. I wonder if he ends up going inside the top 5-10 if not for the rumors of being a bullying psycho at Penn State. Definitely put stink on him and since then, no reports of bad behavior. 

 

As for Parsons, yeah, I probably would consider it, but I also don't think it's helpful. I think it's easier to fix the offense at this point then the defense. Allen and Payne are probably through with their prime's soon enough, and we have no other superior talent on the roster except at Safety. We need multiple DB's, a whole new LB core, Edge, and eventual replacements for Allen and Payne. 

 

For the offense, we just have more potential tools + if we solve the QB issue in this draft or with Howell, doing everything else makes it 10x easier. It's a long road in front of us. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

3 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Williams wasn't even on the team Mike Evans rookie year in 2014, and Jackson was going into his 10th season (what was turning into a quick decline as he was out the league two years later).

 

Tampa didn't draft Evans to have an over the top WE core, they drafted him to make sure they had at least one good WR.

 

I'm getting tired of folks reaching to make a point I already respect but want to keep options open addressing in different ways.  At least google your attempts to further convince me because I will.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Jackson

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Williams_(wide_receiver,_born_1987)

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Evans_(wide_receiver)

 

You're a little grumpy. (I did somehow misplaced Williams last year by 1, but still)

 

Back to the original point. Vincent Jackson was totally going into decline, and it was super obvious at the time of the 2014 draft. Yup.

 

Yup. Look at that. Complete dropoff from 2012 to 2013 for Vincent Jackson. Not even good anymore. They desperately needed to draft a WR at #7 in that off-season to ensure they had 1 good one. Vincent Jackson only had the 2nd most receiving yards in a season for his career, so he was obviously getting washed up.

 

I was thinking of citing the Dez Bryant draft with Dallas. But that was a mid-1st pick, yet it was to an offense that was #2 on Total Yards, went 11-5, and had 2 guys already catching 1,000+ yards. But I think it's easier just to cite our own situation. Behold our current Top 4 pass catchers:

 

Feast your eyes on that list and tremble! Keep in mind, Howell currently leads the league in passing yards yet none of our guys are on pace for 1,000 receiving yards (Terry will just miss it). Terry with Turf Toe isn't the normal Terry yet he's clearly producing the most of this sad group. He's going to be only 29 next year and hopefully his explosion off that one foot will be back to normal. He could bounce back, but there are no guarantees in football.

 

But numbers #2-4 (by receptions)? Can anybody even name them correctly? Whose who? Nobody is even on pace to hit 650 receiving yards. This isn't a health thing either, 2 of those guys only missed 1 game each, yet Howell is leading the league in passing yards and this is the production.

 

To quote you, what's wrong with drafting a WR to "make sure we have at least one good one" (paraphrasing). Cause Vincent Jackson was coming off a year better than any of our current guys and they still drafted a WR at #7. Another parallel with an even higher pick is the 2006 Detroit Lions that held the 2007 #2 pick in the draft.

 

That was Roy Williams coming off his 1st Pro Bowl season, he was still so young and just had a breakout season. Yet with the #2 pick they drafted a WR with unreal generational talent. Calvin Johnson then made the Hall of Fame.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Answer Key to our receiving production woes above:

• Our #2 target (by catches) is a free agent that we most likely are not bringing back.
• Our #3 target (again, by receptions) is a 32 year old TE that the fanbase loudly wants to replace.
• Our #4 target is a small WR who can't beat press and struggles to separate against physical corners.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

If a rare elite talent is there at pick #5, and it just happens to be a WR, then you pick him. There just happen to be 2 rare elite WR talent's in this draft. WR's who are each better than any of the prospects in most of the drafts until you reach the stacked 2014 draft. Only guys that are as good prospects since that 2014 draft are Jamarr Chase drafted #5 in 2021 and Amari Cooper drafted #4 in 2015. Obviously NFL production can differ from prospect status, see Justin Jefferson, Terry McLaurin, AJ Brown, etc. 2014 draft was loaded, but both Cooper and Chase were clearly the best WR prospects in their draft, and would be in most other drafts.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Always A Commander Never A Captain

[DiscoBob]

I sure hope MH Jr falls to our pick and folks are as liquored up as y'all.... then we can move the pick for a kings ransom

 

I can wrap my head around drafting a QB if one is there when we pick, even though Sam has looked promising.... but spending a top 5 pick on WR when we have practice squad leftovers protecting him is silly....

 

We have lots of holes on the roster (many of them directly in front of our QB on every offensive snap)

Edited November 28, 2023 by DiscoBob

[JamesMadisonSkins]

6 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

I sure hope MH Jr falls to our pick and folks are as liquored up as y'all.... then we can move the pick for a kings ransom

 

I can wrap my head around drafting a QB if one is there when we pick, even though Sam has looked promising.... but spending a top 5 pick on WR when we have practice squad leftovers protecting him is silly....

 

We have lots of holes on the roster (many of them directly in front of our QB on every offensive snap)

 

There's a world where I would consider Harrison, Jr. It's a world where we signed a premier RT and LG in the free agent cycle. That makes it feasible to put a rookie 2nd rounder at LT.

 

A lot of teams need OT and there will be a run early. The safest thing to do would be to just take the best LT on the board. I doubt Harrison will be there, but we'll see.

[The Consigliere]

43 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

You're a little grumpy. (I did somehow misplaced Williams last year by 1, but still)

 

Back to the original point. Vincent Jackson was totally going into decline, and it was super obvious at the time of the 2014 draft. Yup.

 

Yup. Look at that. Complete dropoff from 2012 to 2013 for Vincent Jackson. Not even good anymore. They desperately needed to draft a WR at #7 in that off-season to ensure they had 1 good one. Vincent Jackson only had the 2nd most receiving yards in a season for his career, so he was obviously getting washed up.

 

I was thinking of citing the Dez Bryant draft with Dallas. But that was a mid-1st pick, yet it was to an offense that was #2 on Total Yards, went 11-5, and had 2 guys already catching 1,000+ yards. But I think it's easier just to cite our own situation. Behold our current Top 4 pass catchers:

 

Feast your eyes on that list and tremble! Keep in mind, Howell currently leads the league in passing yards yet none of our guys are on pace for 1,000 receiving yards (Terry will just miss it). Terry with Turf Toe isn't the normal Terry yet he's clearly producing the most of this sad group. He's going to be only 29 next year and hopefully his explosion off that one foot will be back to normal. He could bounce back, but there are no guarantees in football.

 

But numbers #2-4 (by receptions)? Can anybody even name them correctly? Whose who? Nobody is even on pace to hit 650 receiving yards. This isn't a health thing either, 2 of those guys only missed 1 game each, yet Howell is leading the league in passing yards and this is the production.

 

To quote you, what's wrong with drafting a WR to "make sure we have at least one good one" (paraphrasing). Cause Vincent Jackson was coming off a year better than any of our current guys and they still drafted a WR at #7. Another parallel with an even higher pick is the 2006 Detroit Lions that held the 2007 #2 pick in the draft.

 

That was Roy Williams coming off his 1st Pro Bowl season, he was still so young and just had a breakout season. Yet with the #2 pick they drafted a WR with unreal generational talent. Calvin Johnson then made the Hall of Fame.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Answer Key to our receiving production woes above:

• Our #2 target (by catches) is a free agent that we most likely are not bringing back.
• Our #3 target (again, by receptions) is a 32 year old TE that the fanbase loudly wants to replace.
• Our #4 target is a small WR who can't beat press and struggles to separate against physical corners.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

If a rare elite talent is there at pick #5, and it just happens to be a WR, then you pick him. There just happen to be 2 rare elite WR talent's in this draft. WR's who are each better than any of the prospects in most of the drafts until you reach the stacked 2014 draft. Only guys that are as good prospects since that 2014 draft are Jamarr Chase drafted #5 in 2021 and Amari Cooper drafted #4 in 2015. Obviously NFL production can differ from prospect status, see Justin Jefferson, Terry McLaurin, AJ Brown, etc. 2014 draft was loaded, but both Cooper and Chase were clearly the best WR prospects in their draft, and would be in most other drafts.

 

Not to speak about someone else, but at least from my own experience, the vibe is the frustration of seeing a train wreck of a decision in front of you and noone will listen. That's how I felt in 2020 when we wouldn't go QB when it was patently obvious we should, ditto '21. The most painful recent examples involve ejecting Berhalter as coach of the USMNT, and the Boulez refusing to trade Beal while I screamed from the heavens to trade him every offseason and every trade deadline after Wall fell coming out of the shower and exploded his achilles or whatever happened. I spent years screaming, and people justifying what was always nonsensical, and it was a truly rare example of a team deliberately turning an extremely valuable asset into literally zero value whatsoever and eventually actively negative value before getting sense, and then doing something about it. That's the worst part, right? Wrong, the worst part was that they came to their senses just in time to not be able to tank for Wenbenyama draft, no, they came to their senses just in time to miss that draft and ahead of the worst draft class in a half decade (at least). So if that's how he feels, and it seems like it, I get it. And he may just be right. I just happen to think that FA and picks in the top 45, and not just top 10 could help fix it too, that's all, but if you're 100% sold that we're going down the road of idicoy, watching people happily drive straight into the cliff can be beyond infuriating. 

[Renegade7]

@Always A Commander Never A Captain

 

I'm not grumpy, but you tryin too hard with respect to confusing the need for an elite WR and the hypothetical of taking Harrison, Jr. If he's there for us to do so.

 

It's causing something we all agree with (need for an elite WR)  to go in circles because of disagreement on how to address it (taking HJR is he's there).  Maybe we should come back to whether we pick HJR after our draft order is established because those are not the same thing.

 

I expect him to be gone and am perfectly fine focusing on protecting our franchise QB first and seeing who's available on the 2025 list I posted, and if he's there someone will not think twice like you say and hopeful give us something stupid to trade up for him.

 

There's no need to reach on examples like Detroit or Dallas that got nowhere in the playoffs or rings to go that route to try to make a point that we agree on the need but disagree how to address with respect to our current situation.

 

I'd love to hear a GM say with a straight face if they see an elite prospect at WR in the top 5 and it's their turn to pick that they pick em without even thinking about it if they can.  They get paid a lot of money to think about it, like that's their job to think about it.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

MH Jr. has all the looks of a generational player.  I’ll take that pedigree every time.  When is the last time we had a generational talent?  
 

Trent Williams.

 

I understand there are numerous positional priorities ahead of WR, but I’d argue you take the potential grand slam every time - no matter where he lines up.

[Skintime]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

MH Jr. has all the looks of a generational player.  I’ll take that pedigree every time.  When is the last time we had a generational talent?  
 

Trent Williams.

 

I understand there are numerous positional priorities ahead of WR, but I’d argue you take the potential grand slam every time - no matter where he lines up.

Young was supposed to be that