2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[MartinC]

12 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

It would be so Snyderskins (RIP) for Bieniemy to be successful as OC this year, him to get interviewed for the HC job by the new GM and by a few other teams as well and for him to choose to go coach somewhere else. 

If EB is successful this coming season that almost certainly means Howell has played well. A situation with new ownership investing in infrastructure, an ascending QB on a very cheap rookie deal with the receiving weapons around him and a good D makes this is a very attractive Head Coaching job. In that circumstance fix the O'line add some talent at LB and maybe RB and this is a team that could make noise.

[88Comrade2000]

Rivera has earned nothing but a likely departure in January. He will quickly be forgotten and only be remembered as Dan’s last coach,

 

He’s done nothing to earn any ring of honor, to be gm only, to pick his successor.

 

Harris will hire the right people next year and they will create a new legacy that hopefully erases the entire Dan era.

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

If EB is successful this coming season that almost certainly means Howell has played well. A situation with new ownership investing in infrastructure, an ascending QB on a very cheap rookie deal with the receiving weapons around him and a good D makes this is a very attractive Head Coaching job. In that circumstance fix the O'line add some talent at LB and maybe RB and this is a team that could make noise.

If Howell plays well and EB is successful I think it's a lock he's the next HC. 

[Jumbo]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

If Howell plays well and EB is successful I think it's a lock he's the next HC. 

 

In such a scenario, including say nine or more wins and particularly if the media champions eb during the season, the "pr value" of a new owner "finally" adding the newest black hc would be hugely appealing to Harris I would think.

 

Even with 7-8 wins, if the other conditions held, I think it would be super tempting. Great media way to begin your not-dan reign as new owner. Of course, whoever's the new gm would have to be willing.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Jumbo said:

 

In such a scenario, including say nine or more wins and particularly if the media champions eb during the season, the "pr value" of a new owner "finally" ed the newest black hc would be hugely appealing to Harris I would think.

 

Even with 7-8 wins, if the other conditions held, I think it would be super tempting. Great media way to begin your not-dan reign as new owner. Of course, whoever's the new gm would have to be willing.

They likely would be. If it falls apart after a year or two they can move on and still benefit from the positive PR generated from the hire. But the wheels would need to come off to move on that quickly or it flips to a PR nightmare. But the potential of having continuity on offense + a franchise level QB is quite frankly not something you can pass up.

 

Of course, a lot still needs to happen for the scenario to play out. But assuming things are good…

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-defensive-line-rankings-2023

 

3. WASHINGTON COMMANDERS

It remains to be seen whether edge defender Chase Young will still be on the roster when the season kicks off. But, as things stand, Washington's starting defensive line consists of four former first-round picks.

The interior is led by Jonathan Allen, who has graded among the top 20 interior defenders for three straight seasons. And on the edge, they have Montez Sweat, who earned a career-high 86.4 grade that ranked eighth among players at the position last season.

[petey hodge]

10 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Harris will hire the right people next year and they will create a new legacy that hopefully erases the entire Dan era.

[petey hodge]

16 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-defensive-line-rankings-2023

 

3. WASHINGTON COMMANDERS

It remains to be seen whether edge defender Chase Young will still be on the roster when the season kicks off. But, as things stand, Washington's starting defensive line consists of four former first-round picks.

The interior is led by Jonathan Allen, who has graded among the top 20 interior defenders for three straight seasons. And on the edge, they have Montez Sweat, who earned a career-high 86.4 grade that ranked eighth among players at the position last season.

 

2022 NFL Drinking Game - Commanders Edition

 

Any time you hear the announcer say the words:

1)  Sister's Couch

2)  Overthrown ball

3)  Shot in the leg

4)  Recovered from two gunshot wounds

5)  Moxy

6)  There's another interception on the offense

or

7)  Four former 1st Round Draft Picks

 

 

DRINK!!!

 

[Skinsinparadise]

7th best shot according to them for the first pick in the draft. Depending on the mock draft we mostly are expected to pick between 4 and 8.

 

I am used to the low expectations from the National media, analytics groups for this team but I am surprised they are betting against mediocrity. Riveras teams haven’t sucked but live in so so country typically. 

 

 

 

18 hours ago, KDawg said:

They likely would be. If it falls apart after a year or two they can move on and still benefit from the positive PR generated from the hire. But the wheels would need to come off to move on that quickly or it flips to a PR nightmare. But the potential of having continuity on offense + a franchise level QB is quite frankly not something you can pass up.

 

Of course, a lot still needs to happen for the scenario to play out. But assuming things are good…

 

Agree if the offense plays well Bieniemy is back and maybe Ron too if he chooses in that context. Because a good offense almost guarantees a good season.

 

Too me the question is what if the season ends somewhere in the middle where the offense is OK but nothing special. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[88Comrade2000]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

7th best shot according to them for the first pick in the draft. Depending on the mock draft we mostly are expected to pick between 4 and 8.

 

I am used to the low expectations from the National media, analytics groups for this team but I am surprised they are betting against mediocrity. Riveras teams haven’t sucked but live in so so country typically. 

 

 

 

 

Agree if the offense plays well Bieniemy is back and maybe Ron too if he chooses in that context. Because a good offense almost guarantees a good season.

 

Too me the question is what if the season ends somewhere in the middle where the offense is OK but nothing special. 

Unless the team finishes with a playoff win; odds are Harris cleans house.

I get the feeling they already know what they plan to do and are itching to get started.

 

 

I would lean more to cleaning house than keep elements of what they inherited.

 

The team would have to overperform for them to consider keeping what they inherited.

[Wyvern]

I've been following the discussion on the possible fate of Ron, and prognosis on Bieniemy's chances of being the next HC, should Ron not be retained. 

 

IMHO,  so much of what's going to happen eventually comes back to how well Washington's offensive line performs. 

 

Those people feeling that Bieniemy's KC schemes will make the Washington offense a feared, explosive weapon in 2023, need to consider how KC's O-line, especially its interior O-line, is really good, and a key contributor to KC's success.  In contrast, Washington's O-line was a problem last year, and coming into 2023, is riddled with question-marks in the interior O-line, and with what many consider 'middle-tier' talent at the tackle positions. And unless the O-line makes a big improvement, Howell is going to be really challenged for the time and maneuvering room he'll need to show what he can do.

 

I've no doubt that Bieniemy can and will motivate the O-line players to the max, but if their talent (or physical availability) just isn't really enough to protect Howell, or support a reliable Washington execution of the KC schemes... this could be another long season, just like last year.   

 

And I suspect winning 7-9 low-scoring games wouldn't be viewed all that favorably, and probably set the stage for Harris to conduct a major purge of the coaching staff and likely the FO too.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Wyvern

[Koolblue13]

I could see Ron moved to Pres and Jason given the boot. They Martys let go and EB promoted to HC and someone from the Chiefs FO (or the Andy tree) brought in as GM.

 

But if it's true that Harris was already reaching out to Payton to be the HC, I don't think it matters how the season goes. Harris will have a plan in place and he'll stick to it. He's not interested in our middling FO/HC situation. He wants to build a dynasty and has shown that he'll hire an out of the norm GM and stick with him to build something.

[FootballZombie]

Ron is as unqualified for a true team president role as Jason Wright is for GM.

 

Your gonna put a dude who's resume has next to nothing to do with running the business side of a team in that kind of position? Even after he displayed a fundamental lack of interest in doing much of anything to make the squad more palatable to a widespread audience when he basically ran the football side?

 

That is a disaster scenario to me. No thanx.

 

Qualified individuals only plz.

 

 

***Unless your talking about a figurehead president w/ no real power. I see no issue in making Ron another "Doug WIlliams"

[Koolblue13]

17 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Ron is as unqualified for a true team president role as Jason Wright is for GM.

 

Your gonna put a dude who's resume has next to nothing to do with running the business side of a team in that kind of position? Even after he displayed a fundamental lack of interest in doing much of anything to make the squad more palatable to a widespread audience when he basically ran the football side?

 

That is a disaster scenario to me. No thanx.

 

Qualified individuals only plz.

 

 

***Unless your talking about a figurehead president w/ no real power. I see no issue in making Ron another "Doug WIlliams"

Yes, that is what I meant, but the second half of my post is what I'd bet on actually happening.

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

Ron is as unqualified for a true team president role as Jason Wright is for GM.

 

Your gonna put a dude who's resume has next to nothing to do with running the business side of a team in that kind of position? Even after he displayed a fundamental lack of interest in doing much of anything to make the squad more palatable to a widespread audience when he basically ran the football side?

 

That is a disaster scenario to me. No thanx.

 

Qualified individuals only plz.

 

 

***Unless your talking about a figurehead president w/ no real power. I see no issue in making Ron another "Doug WIlliams"

I think the figurehead position stance has been stated as nauseum 

[88Comrade2000]

5 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I could see Ron moved to Pres and Jason given the boot. They Martys let go and EB promoted to HC and someone from the Chiefs FO (or the Andy tree) brought in as GM.

 

But if it's true that Harris was already reaching out to Payton to be the HC, I don't think it matters how the season goes. Harris will have a plan in place and he'll stick to it. He's not interested in our middling FO/HC situation. He wants to build a dynasty and has shown that he'll hire an out of the norm GM and stick with him to build something.

I think your bottom half is more likely.

 

I think he has a plan in place. He knows what he wants to do short term and long term. I think he knows who he wants on the business side. He’s got a president a mind and that person maybe already hired.  Jason will be the first person let go, maybe by the start of the season. He has a Gm in mind. Now , that person probably can’t be hired until January. I don’t think any team would let someone from their personnel team leave this late.

Also, Ron has that role now; so he will have to navigate that and also think Rooney rule applys to gms and maybe even presidents? The Gm team will be let go during the season.

 

As for coaching, I’m sure he has some guys he wants but he’ll probably let his Gm pick his guy.   I think only way Ron gets to finish his contract is if he wins a playoff game convincingly and the doesn’t get blown out in playoff game he loses. Then Josh and his Gm may decide it’s better to let Ron come back but he won’t get any extension.  Ron would of course have to be informed he would no longer have any Gm role.  If we are looking at new coaches for 24, I’m sure EB will be given an interview but unless he wows them over other candidates and their will be other candidates; he won’t be the successor.

 

Finally, QB. Unless Sam takes us to the playoffs; I think we will use assets(draft picks and players) to move up to get one of the top qbs in the 24 draft.

 

 

So, barring us overperforming thus year; everything points to us cleaning house and having different people in the key positions and not retaining anyone on the business and personnel side. 

 

[Conn]

I think pretty much everyone on earth agrees with that. The only real question is what qualifies as “overperforming” from person to person. I agree with your interpretation. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Conn

[88Comrade2000]

42 minutes ago, Conn said:

I think pretty much everyone on earth agrees with that. The only real question is what qualifies as “overperforming” from person to person. I agree with your interpretation. 

Well, the only qualification that matters is Josh’s.  Everyone’s else is speculating. 

 

Is he even willing to give Ron a chance to come back or has he already made his mind to clean house next year?

 

We don’t know and I really don’t expect Josh to make any immediate earth shaking moves. The moves will be gradual, leading  to big changes next offseason. 2024 going to be an exciting time here.

Edited June 21, 2023 by 88Comrade2000

[FootballZombie]

Wait... everybody is in agreement here?

 

They told me this was possible but I never believed...

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

A few points:  Ron almost certainly has contractual full control over the football operations.  So, he has to approve any change in the FO. Or it’s breach of contract.  The way you get around that is firing him and then you can do whatever you like.  
 

Also, there is no way Ron goes into year 5 as a lame duck coach.  He’ll either be extended or fired. Also somewhat possible, he resigns and they reach some mutual settlement.  However, if he were to be extended, that’s when you can tear up the existing contract and change the language so he does not have full control.  However, would he sign that?  Unclear.  Maybe not.  
 

The chances of Ron returning in 2024 are slim.  But part of that is due to his contractual situation.  It’s possible Josh Harris decides to move on from Ron no matter what. But it’s also possible Ron makes that impossible because they win enough.  But they have to win enough not only to not get fired but also get a new contact. Unless Howell and EB become Walsh and Montana, I’m not sure that happens.  

 

And btw, I don’t think it was ever confirmed Payton was contacted by Harris.  It could have been the Greek Canadian, or it could have been the Duke fool.  I don’t remember reading confirmation it was Harris.  Speculation, yes.  Confirmation, no.  (Though I could have missed it.)

 

I kindof think Ron ends up leaving the team after the season with some type of mutual agreement, which allows Harris to bring in a new set of FO people, but he doesn’t get fired, and still gets paid some of the remaining amount of his salary. But we’ll see.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

7th best shot according to them for the first pick in the draft. Depending on the mock draft we mostly are expected to pick between 4 and 8.

 

I am used to the low expectations from the National media, analytics groups for this team but I am surprised they are betting against mediocrity. Riveras teams haven’t sucked but live in so so country typically. 

This team went 8-8-1 with:

- Wentz playing badly

- [REDACTED] playing as bad or worse (but a lot luckier due to ritual live animal sacrifices he makes to the football gods)

- both lack of athleticism as well as bad play from Norwell and Turner

- 4 centers

- no actual pass-rushing threat opposite Sweat

- 1 LB who was ok

- No CB depth at all

- Turns out an idiot OC

 

And they still went 8-8-1!

 

I have a hard time believing this team is 5-6 games worse than last years team.  It would basically take Howell being as bad or worse than John Beck + Ron leaving him in he entire season for that to happen.  
 

Im not saying expect them to be a lot better, but I just don’t see them being that bad given a lot of the pieces are back.

[Koolblue13]

7 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

This team went 8-8-1 with:

- Wentz playing badly

- [REDACTED] playing as bad or worse (but a lot luckier due to ritual live animal sacrifices he makes to the football gods)

- both lack of athleticism as well as bad play from Norwell and Turner

- 4 centers

- no actual pass-rushing threat opposite Sweat

- 1 LB who was ok

- No CB depth at all

- Turns out an idiot OC

 

And they still went 8-8-1!

 

I have a hard time believing this team is 5-6 games worse than last years team.  It would basically take Howell being as bad or worse than John Beck + Ron leaving him in he entire season for that to happen.  
 

Im not saying expect them to be a lot better, but I just don’t see them being that bad given a lot of the pieces are back.

While all of that is true, outside of CB depth, the rest could still be the same or worse, while the division got better.

I seriously doubt that we're a 5 win team, but 8-8-1 sounds like us again, but in a more exciting/more frustrating way.

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

While all of that is true, outside of CB depth, the rest could still be the same or worse, while the division got better.

I seriously doubt that we're a 5 win team, but 8-8-1 sounds like us again, but in a more exciting/more frustrating way.

I don't  really believe the rest of the division got better

[Conn]

6 minutes ago, MrJL said:

I don't  really believe the rest of the division got better

Why? Eagles and Giants I think it’s easy to see. Cowboys I think you could argue are at best treading water, maybe.

[Koolblue13]

26 minutes ago, MrJL said:

I don't  really believe the rest of the division got better

Take off the black and maroon colored sunglasses bro.

 

Cowboys are a push, but even if they take a small step backwards, they're still really good and I think the gnats take the division, despite me thinking the Birds go back to the bowl for a rematch.