2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[samy316]

 

 

 

This is what the national media thinks about this team, and it's chances more or less.  GMFB is the most fair national media show, since it's not built on hot takes, and it's on the league's own channel.  The hosts are more than fair, and they give the benefit of the doubt to every team most of the time.  It's about as even kneeled a show as their is in National Media.  If THEY think this team is in the dumps with all the other bad teams, it's not an anomaly.

 

Rivera is going to be fighting to keep his job this season, and if you were to do a segment on coaches on the hot seat, he should DEFINITELY be #1 far and away.  The only other coach on the hot seat that I can think of is LA Chargers HC Brandon Staley, and that's only because he has a potential Top 5 QB, and he's underachieved with a loaded roster.  He also had an all-time historic collapse in the playoffs last year, giving up a 27-0 lead. 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by samy316

[philibusters]

58 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

 

 

This is what the national media thinks about this team, and it's chances more or less.  GMFB is the most fair national media show, since it's not built on hot takes, and it's on the league's own channel.  The hosts are more than fair, and they give the benefit of the doubt to every team most of the time.  It's about as even kneeled a show as their is in National Media.  If THEY think this team is in the dumps with all the other bad teams, it's not an anomaly.

 

Rivera is going to be fighting to keep his job this season, and if you were to do a segment on coaches on the hot seat, he should DEFINITELY be #1 far and away.  The only other coach on the hot seat that I can think of is LA Chargers HC Brandon Staley, and that's only because he has a potential Top 5 QB, and he's underachieved with a loaded roster.  He also had an all-time historic collapse in the playoffs last year, giving up a 27-0 lead. 

 

 

I am fine with us being in that fourth tier because we have such a big question at QB, but I don't understand the Rams being in tier 3.  To me, they are in rebuild.  Yes they have Donald, Stafford, and Cupp, but if you did an exercise where you took away every team's best three players, I think the Rams would have the worst roster in the league.  Add in that all three of them missed time with injuries last year and I am very low on the Rams.  If they stay healthy, I think their upside is in the 8-9 range, whereas if things go bad they could be picking number 1 int he NFL draft next year.

[wit33]

Easily put the roster outside of QB with second tier teams, but QB is king. 

 

Hyped for the season and the all in approach by Ron relating to Howell and the defense. Will be shocked if the defense isn’t flying around and dominating like his elite Panther defenses from time to time. 

[88Comrade2000]

There should be a 5th tier, not a chance tier.

[ntotoro]

Dallas has been "hovering" for almost 30 years now.

[redskinss]

This is starting to resemble the GameDay thread.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

5 hours ago, samy316 said:

 

 

 

This is what the national media thinks about this team, and it's chances more or less.  GMFB is the most fair national media show, since it's not built on hot takes, and it's on the league's own channel.  The hosts are more than fair, and they give the benefit of the doubt to every team most of the time.  It's about as even kneeled a show as their is in National Media.  If THEY think this team is in the dumps with all the other bad teams, it's not an anomaly.

 

Rivera is going to be fighting to keep his job this season, and if you were to do a segment on coaches on the hot seat, he should DEFINITELY be #1 far and away.  The only other coach on the hot seat that I can think of is LA Chargers HC Brandon Staley, and that's only because he has a potential Top 5 QB, and he's underachieved with a loaded roster.  He also had an all-time historic collapse in the playoffs last year, giving up a 27-0 lead. 

 

 

These have been proven to be meaningless.

 

I hate the lack of foresight when they do these. Not just GMFB, basically every journalist and media person does the same thing. This is just copy&pasting last years playoff teams onto this year. Which is about as lazy as you can get. Statistics show that NFL playoff teams have a lot of turnover from year to year. Under the previous 12 team playoff format, 5 new teams made the playoffs every year. In the new 14 team playoff format, it's even higher at 7 new teams.

 

Of 2020's 7 NFC playoff teams, 3 made it the following year.

Of 2020's 7 AFC playoff teams, 4 made it the following year.

Of 2021's 7 NFC teams, 4 made it the following year

Of 2021's 7 AFC teams, 3 made it the following year

 

Turnover from 2020 playoff teams? 50%.

Turnover from 2021 playoff teams? 50%.

 

But the media does these rankings in the most boring way possible. They always predict almost no turnover, and the only reason the Bucs aren't there anymore is because Tom Brady retired. Otherwise they'd still say 0% turnover like a bunch of lame and boring chumps. There was a study done years ago, and I'm positive it hasn't changed, about NFL commentators/media guys/etc's playoff predictions for the next season and they all stunk. This wasn't even a guess the division winners and wildcards, just guess which teams will make the playoffs. The hit rate was down near 30%.

 

Everyone on these shows, doing these things, it's never a "What do I think of this roster right now", it's always just a "well what did that team do the previous season?".

[Die Hard]

4 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

These have been proven to be meaningless.

 

I hate the lack of foresight when they do these. Not just GMFB, basically every journalist and media person does the same thing. This is just copy&pasting last years playoff teams onto this year. Which is about as lazy as you can get. Statistics show that NFL playoff teams have a lot of turnover from year to year. Under the previous 12 team playoff format, 5 new teams made the playoffs every year. In the new 14 team playoff format, it's even higher at 7 new teams.

 

Of 2020's 7 NFC playoff teams, 3 made it the following year.

Of 2020's 7 AFC playoff teams, 4 made it the following year.

Of 2021's 7 NFC teams, 4 made it the following year

Of 2021's 7 AFC teams, 3 made it the following year

 

Turnover from 2020 playoff teams? 50%.

Turnover from 2021 playoff teams? 50%.

 

But the media does these rankings in the most boring way possible. They always predict almost no turnover, and the only reason the Bucs aren't there anymore is because Tom Brady retired. Otherwise they'd still say 0% turnover like a bunch of lame and boring chumps. There was a study done years ago, and I'm positive it hasn't changed, about NFL commentators/media guys/etc's playoff predictions for the next season and they all stunk. This wasn't even a guess the division winners and wildcards, just guess which teams will make the playoffs. The hit rate was down near 30%.

 

Everyone on these shows, doing these things, it's never a "What do I think of this roster right now", it's always just a "well what did that team do the previous season?".

Recency bias is a strong indicator. 😊 For instance, even looking at the 2 years you’ve provided…. That’s a 50% chance of getting multiple guesses correctly. Going with one’s personal judgment/intuition, I’m guessing the odds would be much lower. So can you blame them? 😂😂

[DWinzit]

6 hours ago, ntotoro said:

Dallas has been "hovering" for almost 30 years now.

This should make me laugh but it kind of saddens instead, the only we have been hovering over is the ceramic bowl. Thanks Danny....

Edited June 30, 2023 by DWinzit

[Captain Wiggles]

Oh they'll shock the world alright. ⚡️

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 6/27/2023 at 10:41 PM, kingdaddy said:

Not fine. Wentz was going to be released and the entire league knew it. We made the desperate move of trading for him rather than waiting to sign him once he came free. 

That’s actually factually incorrect.  Several credible sources including Keim have said there was another team in play to trade for him.  
 

And they were desperate.  They knew exactly what they had in [REDACTED], which was a lot of suck between some good luck.  Where they were picking the chances of getting a QB in the draft were very minimal and Wilson turned them down and the Seahawks weren’t going to trade him into the NFC anyway. 
 

They had to do something.  If Wentz was released there is no guarantee he signs here. And then you’re stuck with noodle arm bad decision guy who gets bailed out by luck as your starter.  
 

They took a shot.  It didn’t work.  It doesn’t mean it was wrong to take the shot.  
 

With the benefit of hindsight I wish they had  not signed Wentz, cut [REDACTED] and run the wishbone with Robinson and Gibson all year.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

So it finally clicked as to why the national media is so down on this team.  The folks in the National Media don’t watch every game for every team.  They watch some highlights. Sometimes.

 

But they do watch all the playoff games.  
 

So it’s likely the only full game a lot of the National Media ever watched of [REDACTED] was possibly the best game he played, the playoff game against Tampa.

 

And so they think it’s probable Howell is worse than [REDACTED] and even though the defense should be better and the skill position players are good, the OL at the very least is more athletic, the reason the national media folks are so down on the team is they believe Howell is John Beck, and we took a step backward from [REDACTED]/Wentz.

 

But the only way you could ever come to that conclusion is if you didn’t actually watch games.  Because if you watches games, you know there’s almost no chance Howell is worse because of how insanely horrendously atrocious both of them were last year.  And the team still found a way to go 8-8-1 with those two completely horrendous QBs splitting the season.  
 

I don’t know if Howell will be better.  But he just can’t be much worse. Because they were so bad.  

 

Which is why I think they have a chance to be somewhere around or maybe slightly above .500. 

[FootballZombie]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

And so they think it’s probable Howell is worse than [REDACTED] and even though the defense should be better and the skill position players are good, the OL at the very least is more athletic, the reason the national media folks are so down on the team is they believe Howell is John Beck, and we took a step backward from [REDACTED]/Wentz.

 

I have not been seeing much of anyone saying we regressed at QB. In fact quite the opposite.

 

Most national guys seem to applaud the acquisition of Jacoby as a solid improvement, and a QB room of Howell/JB being a large step forward over the god awful Wentz/TH pairing comedy duo.

 

The national media just sees an offense with some of the worst proven production in the NFL and a D that while good, did not do enough in the way of game-impacting plays. A lot of national media types will rank our D-line as one of the best in football but outside of that no other position group rates highly in the national media's eyes. That's not enough to carry a team by itself. 

 

I like some of our groups like RB and WR and think they can get the job done, but when PFF ranks your WR core 19th, its not like they are some super dominant group that demands respect. We can see potential in the group, but until its actualized, that's all it is.

 

The media is down on us b/c we have put very little out on the field.

-Is Howell gonna be a plus player?

-Can this D be a force to be reckoned with that turns the tide of games?

-Can EB do well given a full OC role?

 

Too much potential, not enough proven production at the moment. Once that flips, we'll get some luv...

 

 

 

That and we play in the NFC East... Nobody is giving us much of a chance there.

[88Comrade2000]

Despite the addition of EB as OC, we still have Mr Seven- Ron Rivera as head coach. That 7 win number has been reached 5 times. Only went over 4 times, 3 times were his only winning seasons.

 

Can EB’s offense overcome the big handicap at coach. Can the line hold up. 
Can Sam actually play.

 

There’s more questions. Too many to really expect anything more than 9 wins and a lot of breaks would have to go out way, to even get to 9.

[Going Commando]

Giants and Vikings are shaky ass picks for tier 2.  The Giants are in almost the same boat we are, just marginally better last season.

[samy316]

8 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So it finally clicked as to why the national media is so down on this team.  The folks in the National Media don’t watch every game for every team.  They watch some highlights. Sometimes.

 

But they do watch all the playoff games.  
 

So it’s likely the only full game a lot of the National Media ever watched of [REDACTED] was possibly the best game he played, the playoff game against Tampa.

 

And so they think it’s probable Howell is worse than [REDACTED] and even though the defense should be better and the skill position players are good, the OL at the very least is more athletic, the reason the national media folks are so down on the team is they believe Howell is John Beck, and we took a step backward from [REDACTED]/Wentz.

 

But the only way you could ever come to that conclusion is if you didn’t actually watch games.  Because if you watches games, you know there’s almost no chance Howell is worse because of how insanely horrendously atrocious both of them were last year.  And the team still found a way to go 8-8-1 with those two completely horrendous QBs splitting the season.  
 

I don’t know if Howell will be better.  But he just can’t be much worse. Because they were so bad.  

 

Which is why I think they have a chance to be somewhere around or maybe slightly above .500. 

I don’t know if the media is down on Howell as much as they are just confused and unsure why we decided to get behind a 5th Rd. QB, with only on start to his name.  You add in the fact that this team is only headline worthy when we make the news for different scandals AND that we are at best mediocre in the field, leads to us not having the benefit of the doubt in the eyes of the national media.  We’re so mid on the field, that we just get forgotten about when it comes to relevant teams or contending teams.  Rolling with Howell might work out, but it’s more of a see it before I believe it mindset from the media, which is certainly justified.

 

I know he’s a headache and older, but part of me wishes that we had a shot at getting Aaron Rodgers in the offseason.  Look at the coverage of the Jets once they acquired Rodgers.  They went from being thought of as the worst team in their division, to everybody’s trendy pick to win the postseason and win their division.  Rodgers alone got the Jets 5 primetime games.  Before this season, the Jets hadn’t been on SNF since 2012.  Now they have 2 SNF games this year.  It might not work out, but if you’re aggressive and you get a Top 10 QB, your profile gets raised astronomically.  Rodgers wouldn’t consider this team, but man would our profile improve with the national media if we did have Rodgers.

Edited June 30, 2023 by samy316

[Skinsinparadise]

These are teams overhyped or under based on personnel people. We make neither list

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chris 44]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

These are teams overhyped or under based on personnel people. We make neither list

 

 

Kinda relates to the Hard Knocks question and why we aren't featured.  We are meh.

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Chris 44

[NewCliche21]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

These are teams overhyped or under based on personnel people. We make neither list

 

 

 

I think that's fair, as we have a ton of question marks from ownership down. It's kinda nice, actually, to not have anywhere to fall from or leap to.  I'd rather not be an underdog, just an under the radar for our first year out of hell.

[Koolblue13]

Within the next 3-5 years the GM the Harris picks to build this team into a dynasty, will have a full roster of high end young players and be in position to start signing key free agents to fill in the gaps and we'll be at the top of these lists perennially. It's an exciting time to be a fan of this team and a lot of cool **** is about to go down, but right now we are clearly at the bottom of that list for a reason. Sure, we could surprise people and finish around .500, but we're hardly more exciting than teams like the Falcons, Packers and Lions, who could actually be pretty good.

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Within the next 3-5 years the GM the Harris picks to build this team into a dynasty, will have a full roster of high end young players and be in position to start signing key free agents to fill in the gaps and we'll be at the top of these lists perennially. It's an exciting time to be a fan of this team and a lot of cool **** is about to go down, but right now we are clearly at the bottom of that list for a reason. Sure, we could surprise people and finish around .500, but we're hardly more exciting than teams like the Falcons, Packers and Lions, who could actually be pretty good.

If your boy Howell is as good as you advertise all is good this season. NFC as a whole is mediocre. 

[Conn]

 

[philibusters]

I really don't get the Rams love.  They have a slightly below average offense and a terrible defense (possibly the worst in the NFL).  I think they lost 8 out of 11 starters on defense from last year.  Their offense is not good either.  Stafford and Cupp, if healthy are good.  But Cam Akers their RB is like Antonio Gibson, all athlete, no vision--their starting O-Line of Joseph Noteboom, Steve Avilla, Brian Allen, Coleman Shelton, and Rob Havenstein is about our level.  Cupp is a great WR but the 2-4 guys are Van Jefferson, Ben Skowronek, and Tutu Atwell and their TE's are Tyler Higbee and Hunter Long.  I don't hate their offense but that is probably the 20th best offense or so and their defense is putrid.   They have Aaron Donald then their second best player on defense is the safety Jordan Fuller.  Good luck to them if any of Stafford, Donald, or Cupp get hurt.

 

 

[wit33]

9 hours ago, philibusters said:

I really don't get the Rams love.  They have a slightly below average offense and a terrible defense (possibly the worst in the NFL).  I think they lost 8 out of 11 starters on defense from last year.  Their offense is not good either.  Stafford and Cupp, if healthy are good.  But Cam Akers their RB is like Antonio Gibson, all athlete, no vision--their starting O-Line of Joseph Noteboom, Steve Avilla, Brian Allen, Coleman Shelton, and Rob Havenstein is about our level.  Cupp is a great WR but the 2-4 guys are Van Jefferson, Ben Skowronek, and Tutu Atwell and their TE's are Tyler Higbee and Hunter Long.  I don't hate their offense but that is probably the 20th best offense or so and their defense is putrid.   They have Aaron Donald then their second best player on defense is the safety Jordan Fuller.  Good luck to them if any of Stafford, Donald, or Cupp get hurt.

 

 

Around these “parts”, this is how you build a team. Pass.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

How are we going to get the nice training camp plays and observations without Twitter?  Service might be fully dead by then.