Nah Nah Nah…Nah Nah Nah…Hey Hey Hey…GOODBYE CLOWNSHOES

[bearrock]

2 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

Bruce nearly had the RFK site awarded to the Redskins as part of a deal to slip it into a complicated congressional spending bill in 2018 which would have also bypassed local input. The then Secretary of the Interior Ryan Zinke was all for it but he ended up having political issues that are better topics for the tailgate and it didn’t happen. However it was way closer than JKC ever got to putting a stadium there. 

 

That bill would've put RFK site at the control of DC government, not dedicate it as a new DC team stadium.  I'm sure Dan and Bruce were all for it as they probably saw an opportunity to transfer control of the land lease from Federal government to DC government without an ugly hearing that a dedicated or a smaller bill would've caused (especially on the name front as they were still Redskins at the time).

 

This is where incompetence of the dumb and dumber comes into play.  Moving the decision making from Fed to DC doesn't move the ball on a RFK site stadium.  You've swapped decision making power from one set of politicians who by in large are indiffetent to you to an exclusively local decision making politicians who a) thinks you are a tool, b) represents people who wants to do something else with that land, and c) politically lean more with having the team name be a deal breaker.  Arguably, using the federal government's control over RFK to leverage a favorable decision from DC is a much better play (do you want to permit the stadium or do you want an urban wasteland?).  You give all that away by having the federal government give the site decision power to DC with no preconditions.

[Skinsinparadise]

12 hours ago, bearrock said:

 

That bill would've put RFK site at the control of DC government, not dedicate it as a new DC team stadium.  I'm sure Dan and Bruce were all for it as they probably saw an opportunity to transfer control of the land lease from Federal government to DC government without an ugly hearing that a dedicated or a smaller bill would've caused (especially on the name front as they were still Redskins at the time).

 

This is where incompetence of the dumb and dumber comes into play.  Moving the decision making from Fed to DC doesn't move the ball on a RFK site stadium.  You've swapped decision making power from one set of politicians who by in large are indiffetent to you to an exclusively local decision making politicians who a) thinks you are a tool, b) represents people who wants to do something else with that land, and c) politically lean more with having the team name be a deal breaker.  Arguably, using the federal government's control over RFK to leverage a favorable decision from DC is a much better play (do you want to permit the stadium or do you want an urban wasteland?).  You give all that away by having the federal government give the site decision power to DC with no preconditions.

 

My take on their stadium

 

I know some here think Wright is a moron.  Not me.  He's a Northwestern graduate.  When I listen to him I don't think moron especially when it comes to the stadium when he talks about it.  And as for his role, for me that's the most important thing for me. 

 

Some of the things people kill him for like the Sean Taylor mannequinn -- do people really think Wright is the one who said lets go cheap with this?  Not Dan Snyder who doesn't apparently even give free coffee in the building?   If the owner's wife wants to design the uniforms do you tell her to go to hell, or do you work with her on it? 

 

It's a thankless job working for a cheap moron.  And yeah part of your job is to take bullets for the moron.  if you don't, you aren't good at your job IMO.  It's part of what you are paid to do.  For those who say they'd tell their boss to take a hike, and quit, cool.  But i don't know too many people like that?  Shanny bit the bullet.  Lafemina did. Marty, etc.   None quit.  If you get fired you get paid, if you quit you don't.  If you quit Dan wins.

 

I don't think I am being arrogant to say I know a litle more about  the political process than a layperson. I'd have to be a moron not to know more about politics than the average person.  I got a degree in this and have been working in the field for 30 years now.  It would be like a laywer saying, heck anyone knows as much about the courtroom and the law than they do.  It would be ridiculous.  Everyone here has a niche that is predicated by their job.  it doesn't make them an expert but it does make them more knowledgible than any random person off the street.

 

Bruce started the process working with his brother, and just him.  No lobbyists from what I read back then.  That's beyond crazy from my experience, especially if you are working for an owner without much political connections.  With lobbyists you gain their political connections.  That's why they get paid big.  When the Dolphins and Marlins were chasing a stadium, they hired the best and most connected lobbyist in Florida.  And they didn't stop there, they hired multiple other lobbyists to pile on more clout.  They hired a grassroots team to push it in the local level to garner constituent support.  I know because I did some phone baking for them.  It was a really elaborate effort.

 

Reading about Bruce's efforts, it was a cheap, ragtag effort.  It's hard enough going full throttle and succeeding let alone bare bones.  That's mistake #1.  Mistake #2 is like life, with poltics its all about timing.  They had an in with the interior secretary who was a fan of the team AND they had him aling with the right party in power for their purposes, that is, the party that Dan-Bruce were more connected to.   

 

But they dawdled on that advantage.  That's a theme in this quest.   Once the secretary quit and and a new party just took over Congress, their leverage changed, once realiziing this they scrambled to get this as part of the year end budget to help them get what they wanted before the power structure change but it was too late.   They couldn't pull it off.

 

Squandered the timing is a theme for the stadium and other issues too relating to this team.  From what I understand years ago they squandered their opportuniity to potentially get the National Harbor as a stadium site because they had a hard time showing a poker face on it and let on they were just using Maryland to pressure DC.    Now I bet Dan would kill for that site.  And I understand there are juristiction and environmental challenges with that parcel, too

 

Now racing past Bruce.  They started with potentially having a billion or so of state loan support from Virginia.  To then it sinking to 300 million, to then zero.  What happened during that time?  All of the Dan scandals intensified that basically made any public help come off as politically dangerous for the Virginia legislature to support.  Dan's toxicity got worse and worse over time so his political capital went from being bad to toxic level eggregious.

 

I can give a rats behind about Jason Wright one way or another.  But I'll give him at a minimum he's changed one thing from the Bruce approach which is they have multiple lobbyists on their payroll now -- translation they aren't being cheap anymore. 

 

Bruce was cheap.  Dan is now cheap.   You can't go cheap from what I've seen to chase a stadium because the public isn't predisposed to believe its a win for their community so its not an easy task politically.  While Bruce was scorning  Keim for saying they are losing fans which he thought was nonsense.  Wright is saying publcily Dan leaving is needed to regain public support.  Bruce's head was in the clouds from what I can tell -- Wright doesn't strike me anywhere near as naive as Bruce.  But Wright can leave or go, don't care.  But from what i've seen I trust his instincts over Bruce when it comes to the stadium.

Edited April 2, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

My take on their stadium

 

I know some here think Wright is a moron.  Not me.  He's a Northwestern graduate. 

 

He's IQ smart but not EQ smart, which is just as important. Keep in mind the 'best and brightest' from Harvard and Yale lost the Vietnam war for us...hope that's not too political.

 

[SoCalSkins]

2 hours ago, bearrock said:

 

That bill would've put RFK site at the control of DC government, not dedicate it as a new DC team stadium.  I'm sure Dan and Bruce were all for it as they probably saw an opportunity to transfer control of the land lease from Federal government to DC government without an ugly hearing that a dedicated or a smaller bill would've caused (especially on the name front as they were still Redskins at the time).

 

This is where incompetence of the dumb and dumber comes into play.  Moving the decision making from Fed to DC doesn't move the ball on a RFK site stadium.  You've swapped decision making power from one set of politicians who by in large are indiffetent to you to an exclusively local decision making politicians who a) thinks you are a tool, b) represents people who wants to do something else with that land, and c) politically lean more with having the team name be a deal breaker.  Arguably, using the federal government's control over RFK to leverage a favorable decision from DC is a much better play (do you want to permit the stadium or do you want an urban wasteland?).  You give all that away by having the federal government give the site decision power to DC with no preconditions.

The provision never made it into any spending bill so the final text was not known specifically but it sidestepped local public input, would have removed the recreational only language in the parcel and would have been a lease for 99 years specifically earmarked with the Redskins in mind. 
 

Regardless a stadium anywhere with Dan at the helm was not going to be easy. Guy is just beyond toxic but for Bruce to weasel his way that close to that provision was actually pretty impressive maneuvering at the time. To get federal passage with the name Redskins intact etc would have been a coup. 
 

You do make great points and even with the best ownership and plans a deal to get the RFK site shovel ready might be impossible for anyone. Layers of federal and local bureaucracy with a ton of NIMBY neighbors might never see it come to fruition. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

 

He's IQ smart but not EQ smart, which is just as important. Keep in mind the 'best and brightest' from Harvard and Yale lost the Vietnam war for us...hope that's not too political.

 

 

I hear you.  We all go with our gut and our version of fandom.  No rights or wrongs. 

 

To me he comes off smart but not Redskins smart -- doesn't know the history, etc.  I talked for 20 minutes one day with Lafemina when he was in charge, I talked about it at the time on a thread, he also struck me smart but not Redskins smart.  My key thing for this role is the stadium, stadium, stadium.  And nothing i've read about on that front or heard from him in interviews has made me think what a moron on that front.  Everything makes sense to me.  As I explained in a long post it didn't feel the same for me about Bruce.

 

But I understand for those vested in the branding, Jason disappointing many.  i admit i don't give a rats ass about the uniforms and how pretty or not they are or vintage, etc.  I know some here care a lot about that.   And that's more than cool.  No rights, no wrongs.

 

I am in the mode of the Hogs Haven guy.  I disagree with his judgmental take on this as to those who disagree with him.  Fandom is about hatever floats your boat. But am posting his tweets becuase not all fans are vested in it as the be all and end all..  If people are moved by the branding, they have every right to be.  So I disagree with his shots on that front.   But I am with his overall sentiment from a pure opinion standpoint.

 

The key part to me is I think the idea is dead for now.  Listening to those covering the story including Keim, there is just about a zero chance that the branding is changing anytime soon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[SoCalSkins]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The key part to me is I think the idea is dead for now.  Listening to those covering the story including Keim, there is just about a zero chance that the branding is changing anytime soon.

I disagree with this one. I think there is a perception that there will be a parade and the new owners will become instant folk heroes etc. Sure there is going to be a huge celebration  in getting  rid of Dan but the fan expectations for the new owner/owners is going to be massive.
 

They are going to be hard pressed to deliver a stadium project instantly because it is complicated and takes time. The honeymoon period is going to end fast particularly once the owner fires Ron and the shine is off the new coach. Another rebrand is exactly the rabbit they will pull out of the hat.

Even if things are going well, they will get feedback how much the fans hate the name. I have come to accept the name because I did not think there would be an opportunity to ever change it. If we are stuck with the worst name of a sports team in human history, might as well get used to it. However, if there is an out, I demand the new owner take it. There is going to be massive fan movement on this for sure. 
 

Edited April 2, 2023 by SoCalSkins

[FootballZombie]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listening to those covering the story including Keim, there is just about a zero chance that the branding is changing anytime soon.

 

Luckily I knew the date otherwise that statement would have been problematic. You won't get me that easily.

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

I disagree with this one. I think there is a perception that there will be a parade and the new owners will become instant folk heroes etc. Sure there is going to be a huge celebration  in getting  rid of Dan but the fan expectations for the new owner/owners is going to be massive.
 

 

It's not about disagreeing or agreeing.  Those who are covering the story don't expect it to happen and its not like they are saying maybe or maybe not but leaning against, they outright don't expect it to happen for various reasons.

 

Personally I don't care if they do or they don't.  So I got no dog in the fight.  

Edited April 2, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[SoCalSkins]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's not about disagreeing or agreeing.  Those who are covering the story don't expect it to happen and its not like they are saying maybe or maybe not but leaning against, they outright don't expect it to happen for various reasons.

 

Personally I don't care if they do or they don't.  So I got no dog in the fight.  

I am not disagreeing with you I am disagreeing with their take. They are listening to too many statements Jason Wright is making about what the new owners will do. 
 

There aren’t many things that bring this fan base together but hating Dan and all things Dan is pretty universal. I don’t want the franchise I have loved so much my entire life to be named by the guy who did more damage to the franchise than any person in history. I think it’s a fair assessment that’s a pretty universally held belief among most fans. 
 

A good owner and businessman will be dialed into the passion of the fans. It’s not going to take a marketing genius to understand the name is pretty much despised by the fans for the name itself or because Dan chose it.
 

It’s a toxic albatross across the the new owner’s neck and he’s going to have to fix it. If the dude can’t even change a huge recent Snyder blunder, why are the fans going to buy into his vision for the team? Why are they going to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars into PSLs for a new stadium? The name has to go and it has to go fast. Someone spending 6 billion on the team is going to understand that fact pretty quickly. 
 

Edited April 2, 2023 by SoCalSkins

[tmandoug1]

1hr and 42 minutes left.

[MartinC]

45 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am in the mode of the Hogs Haven guy.  I disagree with his judgmental take on this as to those who disagree with him. 

 

That’s par for the course - he doesn’t react well to people not agreeing with him period. 

[DiscoBob]

Ok guys, it may be the combination of drugs that I'm taking (antibolic steroids, Novacaine, Nyquil, Darvon, and some sort of fish paralyzer)....

 

But we gotta hire back Vinny Cerrato... call me crazy boys, but we NEED his acting abilities and that poker face... 

 

Remember Osaka gentleman 

[jjpomeroy]

11 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

1hr and 42 minutes left.

Add three hours - he’s on Pacific time…

[Monte51Coleman]

56 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

If we are stuck with the worst name of a sports team in human history, might as well get used to it.
 

The Wizards (Wiz) say ‘hold my beer’.

[SoCalSkins]

2 minutes ago, Monte51Coleman said:

The Wizards (Wiz) say ‘hold my beer’.

At least Dan didn’t pick it. 
 

Do a reverse wizards. The Washington Arrows or Washington Redarrows. 

[tmandoug1]

25 minutes ago, jjpomeroy said:

Add three hours - he’s on Pacific time…

Eyes are sliding shut at this time.....

[RVAskins]

11 minutes ago, Monte51Coleman said:

The Wizards (Wiz) say ‘hold my beer’.

[Bifflog]

And here, one can observe the inverse correlation between re-rebrand discussion and actual new news about the sale.  Always a good indicator to frequent different threads for a few days

Edited April 2, 2023 by Bifflog

[Barry.Randolphe]

The Washington Swamp Rats has a nice ring to it and we can still use the R script

 

We could have a mascot named Neuty the Nutria

[actorguy1]

I am also of the belief that consistent winning on the field will cure 95% of the ills against the Commanders name. I also believe what Keim says that neither the NFL nor the new owners will have interest in the time and 10's of millions of dollars it would take for a rebrand. As much as I loved the Redskins brand I was glad they changed it. I was also one of the few middle aged fans that was fully on the RedWolves bandwagon. However, I am ok with Commanders and provided the winning ever comes back to stay for a little (or long) while, I could even grow to love it.

Edited April 2, 2023 by actorguy1

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, actorguy1 said:

I am also of the belief that consistent winning on the field will cure 95% of the ills against the Commanders name. I also believe what Keim says that neither the NFL nor the new owners will have interest in the time and 10's of millions of dollars it would take for a rebrand. As much as I loved the Redskins brand I was glad they changed it. I was also one of the few middle aged fans that was fully on the RedWolves bandwagon. However, I am ok with Commanders and provided the winning ever comes back to stay for a little (or long) while, I could even grow to love it.

 

Yeah the Jason Wright comment that he doesn't get the sense the new owners would do it is the gravy on the point, not the gist of it.  National media guys, like Breer have weighed on it, too.  The NFL would have to change the rules to do it, they can't for example change the unforms until 2027 based on current rules.  Changing a name where its 4 new names in 5 years -- no one covering thinks the NFL will be heck yeah lets do this.

 

If they do this or don't do this, I don't care.  But its hard for me not to notice that there is no ambiguity, zero, as for local and national reporters on this issue, Keim, Bram, Finlay, etc, no one thinks it's happening, and they aren't expressing it probably not but maybe, they are expressing it as if no shot.

 

Will see.  I am in the camp that i don't care if it happens or not.  But for now I do no expect it to happen.

 

Of the few who cover this who would like it to happen, they don't say it will happen though, like Sheehan, agrees that a challenge is fans aren't really rallying around a name so its a somewhat lose-lose exercise.  So you change it and some still are pissed off about it.  I get that hey its still not a Snyder picked name, and maybe whatever fans lets say like the Washington Admirals over the Commanders because Dan didn't pick it.  But I think that's an unknown but maybe?

Edited April 2, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Rocky21]

Just a reminder that the ignore user feature on ES works great.

 

If for example there is someone in this thread whose posts are getting on your nerves. 😉

[Voice_of_Reason]

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

My take on their stadium

That was a lot of words to say “Dan is a cheap mofo and Bruce is an indiot.”

 

I swear you must get paid by the word….

 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Voice_of_Reason

[Andre The Giant]

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's not about disagreeing or agreeing.  Those who are covering the story don't expect it to happen and its not like they are saying maybe or maybe not but leaning against, they outright don't expect it to happen for various reasons.

 

Personally I don't care if they do or they don't.  So I got no dog in the fight.  

So 2 things:

 

1. I doubt the beat folks know much about the future branding plans of the future owners because the new ownership group hasn’t been chosen and why would they tell anybody those plans?

 

2. Keim specifically is pointing to NFL branding rules which dictate the timeline for branding changes, and I don’t think they can do much of anything under the rules. So they are speculating more than anything that there isn’t a re-branding coming because of NFL rules.

 

What they are hearing from their sources probably is irrelevant.  Wright and his entire team could be out within 6 months of the sale.  Or they might not be.  And they probably don’t even know that yet. 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Voice_of_Reason