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New OC Thread (And All Things Offensive - Accepting Any Qualified Applicants)


samy316
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Every football fan seems to hate the offensive coordinator. If a team struggles to score, or a quarterback throws an interception or fails to score in the red zone, it’s always the offensive coordinator’s fault.

 

And, to a degree, some of that is true. After all, the offensive coordinator is responsible for a team’s offensive performance. But if you spend time on Twitter or at a sports bar, you will find someone complaining about an offensive coordinator.

 

Such is the case with the Washington Commanders and offensive coordinator Scott Turner. Turner, the son of former Washington head coach Norv Turner, has been criticized by fans throughout his three-year tenure. While Turner has made some head-scratching decisions at time, so has Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVay in the past. No, I’m not comparing Turner to Shanahan or McVay, but you get the point.

 

Consider how many quarterbacks Turner has coached in three seasons. And the Commanders still don’t have a long-term answer at the position, yet Washington has won five of its past six games and is firmly in the playoff mix at 6-5.

Some credit must go to Turner, right?

 

Well, according to Tom Pelissero of NFL.com, Turner is one of several young assistants [under 45] the NFL is closely monitoring for the next round of the interview process in the offseason.

 

Here’s what Pelissero said of Turner, based on conversations with “NFL executives, coaches and others close to the search process.”

Commanders OC Scott Turner, 40: It’s a credit to Turner — the son of longtime NFL coach Norv Turner — that the Washington offense has been functional the past few seasons, given the revolving door at quarterback and nonstop drama surrounding the organization. Just look at his game plan in Monday night’s upset win over the Eagles, focusing on holding the ball and controlling the game; the Commanders had 25 first downs, converting 12 of them on third down, and had the ball for over 40 minutes. Turner is creative and knows how to adapt to his personnel (or lack thereof). And his eye for young QB talent — for example, plucking Taylor Heinicke as an undrafted free agent out of Old Dominion back in his Vikings days — is a positive trait.

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My only real beef with Turner is that it sounds like his system isn’t user friendly.  Fitz who was in a dozen or more systems in his career said it was difficult to learn.  We’ve yet to see anyone with varying levels of skill look all that great in it, aside from Heinicke and he only runs a portion of it when we’re not running the ball 50 times.

 

It really felt like he was forcing the issue with Wentz.  He badly wanted to attack through the air and didn’t appear willing to give up on that even when it was obviously not going to work.

 

All that said though, I’ve liked some of the wrinkles he’s installed and won’t be surprised if one day he truly clicks with a QB that has the tools.  He’s still pretty young and has plenty of time to learn and progress.

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1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

My only real beef with Turner is that it sounds like his system isn’t user friendly.  Fitz who was in a dozen or more systems in his career said it was difficult to learn.  We’ve yet to see anyone with varying levels of skill look all that great in it, aside from Heinicke and he only runs a portion of it when we’re not running the ball 50 times.

 

It really felt like he was forcing the issue with Wentz.  He badly wanted to attack through the air and didn’t appear willing to give up on that even when it was obviously not going to work.

Yep, it’s not ideal to be starting over each year at QB in his system by the looks of things. That’s another issue wrapped up in the near term future QB debate.

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I think he's bad at situational football and has poor feel for where his players and opponents are at in the moment too.  He's bad in the red zone and I don't think it's true that he adapts his system to his personnel.  Heinicke is the only QB that has really gotten Turner's system and been able to deal with it and the challenges of the passing offense, and Heinicke is an unusually bright player with years of experience in the offense.  It's also been hard on the receivers and the spacing has been screwy.  The route concept of two guys running to the same spot at the same time has been a Scott Turner special the past three years.

 

I think he's a complete mediocrity who has never coached a unit that has even been league average, much less a strong offense.  Blows my mind that any team would consider him for a head coaching job, but I wouldn't complain if he got poached.

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1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

Designing a scheme and calling good plays for the situation are two different skill sets.  I don't have a ton of complaints about the scheme itself, more just the way Scott Turner calls the plays sometimes.

I think that's basically it in a nutshell. He has poor in game "feel" and is slow to make adjustments, but the overall offensive play design and scheme isn't bad.

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1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

Designing a scheme and calling good plays for the situation are two different skill sets.  I don't have a ton of complaints about the scheme itself, more just the way Scott Turner calls the plays sometimes.

He called a brilliant game on Sunday.

 

He rotated the three plays he has available to him extraordinarily well.

5 hours ago, Going Commando said:

I think he's bad at situational football

When you’re QB can’t make tight windows throws, the red zone becomes virtually impenetrable.

 

Thry should just run from inside the 10 every time because the have no chance really at passing it in. 

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For the most part, I'm still in the same place w/ Turner as I was before he got his extension.

 

I feel confident in his ability to helm a rushing predicated O, and he simply has not had much of an opportunity to display he can helm a more passing predicated O in a consistent and quality manner. When he tried to do that, he was feeling his own jimmies way too hard and to his own detriment. If he calmed it down a bit, he probably would have found more success.

 

His system is hard to pick up, but its difficult to say it does not work when he is able to scheme guys open. We just have not had the ability to hit those guys.

 

Turner "could" be a great coach, but dude has been wearing handcuffs for years.

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Turner isn't good enough.  Mediocre at best.  Sure he has his moments, but too many problems and inconsistencies.

 

When you run the ball as often as they do, the inability to hurt teams with play action and bootlegs is incredible.   Teams with worse run games do better.....This was a problem with Wentz as well.

 

The inability to create an effective screen game with the RB's.   I've never seen a team be so bad.

 

Situational play calling.....We're up 19-13 with 7 minutes left and have the ball on the 40....Robinson and Williams are gashing the Falcons up the gut....Turner comes out with a toss play to Gibson.....2nd and 12.....Too many instances of this type lack of feel.

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 The inability to adjust in-game or even mid-downs, i.e. injured DB/safety and attacking a back-up replacing them kinda makes me scratch my head, but then the o-line is starting to work ok together but not what I consider a solid unit.

Screen plays are a rarity, and usually telegraphed when called; designing multiple situational plays out of a single screen play formation can really catch defenses off guard. There's a few formations that always seem to be sniffed out at the snap, so if Turner can devise/call a different play from that formation I think it would be a big yardage gainer or TD. 

 

Depending on what RR's main objective is, maybe he's told to be more aggressive in running plays, but when the running plays are snuffed out it leaves 3rd & long, obvious passing downs that backfire or stall a drive.

 

In Gibbs' earlier stint, he said that he liked to go against the tendencies, and that formula worked pretty well, but maybe trusting TH with the ball is not quite sitting well with RR so he sticks with what is safer, especially when in FG range.

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There isn't a single team in this League interested in Turner as a HC. Not one. That recent article was a typical "I get by with a little help from my friends" type of piece. A little third party cyber cover letter for next season or 2024 if there's insufficient time for the new ownership group to make necessary changes. @Warhead36, @NoCalMike are on poiNT here. Dude can design the hell outta some plays, but as Keim has explicitly said, the acumen for knowing when to call certain plays leaves a lot to be desired. And his jet sweeps are fast becoming Jay's fades routes.

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The other thing is that Turner has the personality of a doorknob. He’s got no charisma at all. You need to benefit from Kyle Shanahan-level genius and nepotism to overcome that, and Turner doesn’t even have a good resume to fake you into thinking it’s worth the risk. Nothing about the guy screams leader or HC. Nothing even whispers it. He’s like a poor man’s version of all the coaches’ sons who get promoted in this league. 

Edited by Conn
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Miami's HC is what an elite young play caller and play designer looks like.  That dude has phenomenal instincts and creativity.  He's basically got two great receivers and a pretty good TE to work with and then similar limitations of a spotty run game, bad line, and small QB with a limited arm.  And still his offense is piling up points and yardage and his team is winning.  That's a team that has innovatively redesigned itself to do more with less, and great coaching is making a difference--that is not what we have here.

 

I also think it's worth pointing out that Turner's offenses take almost half a season to find their identity because of how slow he is to figure things out and adjust.  We had that one big first game and then it all rapidly fell apart after losing one key guy (Roullier) at the end of it because of an inability to adjust.  New players to the scheme seem to take forever to find their footing and certainly don't hit the ground running like Tyreek Hill did in Miami.

 

And even now that we've found an identity, we're still not scoring.

 

I don't think Turner is a bad coach any more, but I do think he is a mediocrity.  Probably bottom half of the league as an OC.  I recognize that our offensive personnel has been pretty weak the past three seasons, and that's not all on him (though I do think some of our line and QB struggles are heavily a product of his bad passing game design, e.g. long drops on shallow crosses).  A lot of the personnel decisions were above Turner's level.  Ron moved on from the only three first rounders we had on offense prior to his arrival pretty quick.  Guice and Haskins flaming out so fast left us without an engine on offense, the passing game weaponry had pretty much already collapsed by 2019, and the line was on the brink the second half of last season.  It did so this year.  It's a major limitation, much more so than Heinicke, and Turner finally adjusted to it during November and started making lemonade from lemons.  If he were incompetent, we'd still be trying to run our September offense and losing games.  But he's far from an elite coach and you get a clear picture of what that bar looks like by watching an offense run by Mike McDaniel.

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Everything you said is 100% true @Going Commando. One thing I’ll add in terms of McDaniels’ HC skillset outside the X’s and O’s is that he has an extremely high emotional IQ. He recognizes that this is a human game played by young men, and he’s the type of thoughtful, empathetic person who succeeds in communication and people management in this age. He’s pretty much the whole package when you add in his schematic brilliance and ability to adapt. No surprise, because flexibility in your social skillset begets flexible thinking in your technical expertise.
 

Very jealous of the Dolphins, the dude’s a superstar and will successfully develop—and maximize—a ton of players that other teams would discard, write off, or use inefficiently. 

Edited by Conn
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21 hours ago, HigSkin said:

 

Commanders OC Scott Turner, 40: It’s a credit to Turner — the son of longtime NFL coach Norv Turner — that the Washington offense has been functional the past few seasons, given the revolving door at quarterback and nonstop drama surrounding the organization. Just look at his game plan in Monday night’s upset win over the Eagles, focusing on holding the ball and controlling the game; the Commanders had 25 first downs, converting 12 of them on third down, and had the ball for over 40 minutes. Turner is creative and knows how to adapt to his personnel (or lack thereof). And his eye for young QB talent — for example, plucking Taylor Heinicke as an undrafted free agent out of Old Dominion back in his Vikings days — is a positive trait.

-Signed Scott Turner's agent's brother's former roommate

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5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Very good news.  That was a long time off for a concussion, eh?  Anyway, good to have him back - we now at least have a capable backup for all 5 spots.

Just now, method man said:


Is there a cap on the number of guys who can return from IR? Where is this team on that? Hopefully they have budgeted enough for Holcomb, Wentz and another one or two TBD returns from IR

I believe it’s 4?

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  • samy316 changed the title to New OC Thread (And All Things Offensive - Accepting Any Qualified Applicants)

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