The All Things 2022 OTAs/Training Camp Thread

[FootballZombie]

Cutting Mayo to sign Mayo n Bostic...

 

That is like the most uninspiring moves at LB...

There is no plan at LB outside of prayer.

[Skinsinparadise]

If I heard him right, Standig said in his podcast someone tied to another team asked him whether they thought this team would cut Rogers, they liked Rogers and implied they'd grab him if they did. 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I got concerns about this roster.  LB used to be one of them.  Not so much anymore -- post Jamin's camp.  It's a team that uses 1 to 2 LBs mostly and very rarely 3.

 

Jamin had a good camp. To me it all rests on him.  If that translates to the season, we are good at that spot.  If it doesn't, then nope.

 

Some of the guys some clamored for like Schobert had a subpar PFF 50 score against the run and was released after his signing by Denver.  I am not a big Bostic or Mayo guy but as backups, its fine. 

 

I like what i've read and heard about Elifer.  I posted that stuff yesterday.

 

To me its all on Jamin.  We ride or fall with him.

 

Now safety should be interesting.  That's the spot we often use three.  How's our depth there?  It might be OK.  But I am more worried about that coming together then our backup LBs.  

Edited September 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

Mayo and Apke are back. We've got lots of TEs and Safeties. Lots of big pass rushers in the middle and our Oline is mostly bruisers.

 

A big armed QB and soon a mauling RB will be back. Heinicke still sucks and the QB3 can take his job when he wants.

 

Bring on them Jags!

[Voice_of_Reason]

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Looks like this draft is looming as a disaster.

 

I was surprised that Jahan wasn't cut.    Robinson looked terrible.  Cole Turner we kept hearing was awful.  This odd Amari Rogers experiment at TE was a big failure -- as was the dumb 5th round pick they used for Bates last year.

 

Howell bombed the preseason.

 

Didn't they cut their late rounders, Holmes and Chris Paul?

He’s just going to say “elite players” and QB and complain we didn’t trade Payne in 2020 for a 4th or 5th and trade anything possible to get Fields (because we KNOW he’s going to be elite, and claim he knows the QB draft class 2-3 years in advance.

 

It’s the hill he’s going to die on.  Actually, he’s already dead but doesn’t realize it yet.  Like in the 6th Sense.  (Sorry if that was a spoiler from a 30 year old movie.)

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He’s just going to say “elite players” and QB and complain we didn’t trade Payne in 2020 for a 4th or 5th and trade anything possible to get Fields (because we KNOW he’s going to be elite, and claim he knows the QB draft class 2-3 years in advance.

 

It’s the hill he’s going to die on.  Actually, he’s already dead but doesn’t realize it yet.  Like in the 6th Sense.  (Sorry if that was a spoiler from a 30 year old movie.)

 

Yeah you got to be glass half full no matter what happens if the beef is that centered on QB considering Wentz AND Howell looked good this preseason.  It can blow up, don't get me wrong but at this moment in time if we got a sky is falling narrative at QB then it will exist no matter what they do short of the joy according to him of going 3-13. 

 

His main gripe with Ron is he's not actively willing to tank and he's not bad enough of a coach to tank by accident.  

Edited September 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah you got to be glass half full no matter what happens if the beef is that centered on QB considering Wentz AND Howell looked good this preseason.  It can blow up, don't get me wrong but at this moment in time if we got a sky is falling narrative then it will exist no matter what they do short of the joy according to him of going 3-13. 

 

His main gripe with Ron is he's not actively willing to tank and he's not bad enough of a coach to tank by accident.  

He doesn’t like Wentz.  Not elite.  
 

What he kindof fails to realize is the team DID tank (unintentionally) in 2019). They ended up with the #2 overall pick.  THAT was the tank job.  
 

2020 was the beginning of the rebuilt.  They cut almost all the dead wood.

 

Oh, he did want to cut Alex and take a $36m cap hit in 2020. I still think that’s not the right way to go.  
 

And he will also mention statistics.  Because they are God.  

[skinny21]

15 minutes ago, Redwards said:

I feel like the best Rivera and crew can muster with regard to roster construction is a team that every other year squeaks into the playoffs and maybe wins a game.  But they are never a real threat.  They are seemingly always behind the 8 ball, overvaluing their players and lagging behind the better teams in the league talent-wise and scheme wise.  

 

Maybe they show-out this year.  They better.  No excuses this season, barring massive injuries, which we seem to always have. 

I can’t necessarily disagree with you on most of this, however I’m not sure I agree with the last line, because you’re essentially saying there’s no excuse (barring massive injuries) to not making the conference championship.

11 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

That’s exactly what Panther fans said the final few years of Ron. A team that’s solidly in the middle always competing. But lacks a legitimate ceiling but will never fall off either. 
 

He’s essentially a nice Jeff Fisher that got lucky with a freak of nature in Cam 

You could argue that every team with a stud qb got lucky.  Yes, teams can manipulate things by trading up for qbs, having good support systems, etc, but there’s still a healthy dose of luck involved.

 

As for Ron specifically, I’m seeing 4 potential failings:  at qb, DC, OC and linebacker (the latter looking like the most egregious, but also least important of the 4).  I don’t blame him for the first 3 though - Turner runs a proven scheme, Del Rio has headed some serious defenses, and (I know you disagree) I think he’s tried his best at qb.

 

I don’t want to miss the forest for the trees though, because on the flip side, Rivera has succeeded in:  turning the culture around, pushing the franchise toward regaining respectability (I don’t think those two can be overstated), seemingly drafting well, making the team competitive, has done a nice job with depth for the most part, and has really gotten the ball rolling on a youth movement.

 

Who knows what comes next.  I hope we see improvement, but I also don’t see this as an all or nothing situation.

 

 

 

[Mrshadow008]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That is definitely a possibility.

 

But I think that's most likely if there are injuries.  I think while the starters are healthy, they are going to be ok.  The starting unit has quite a bit of talent. 

 

I think there is a question as to how JDR is going to call the defense also. It's been reported that he learned they could not just count on pressure from the front 4, so I would expect to see more blitzes and more pressures, like they did when Sweat and Young were out last year. 

 

I'll say this again: the defense was MUCH better for a 4 game stretch last year, and was trending towards being good until COVID and injuries took over and derailed everything.  

 

They need to get back to the level of defense which they played against Tampa, Carolina, Las Vegas and Seattle.  If they play at that level, which was "good, not great" for the most part, that's all they need to do.

 

It used to be "defense wins championships."  That's no longer true.  Offense wins championships.  Defense just has to not give them away. This is another reason I think spending so many first round picks in a row on defense was a mistake.   It's the lesser unit in today's NFL.  You don't need the '85 bears defense.  KC's defense can generously be described as "adequate." They spend the majority of their resources on offense.  They've made the AFC Championship game 4 years in a row.  

I could make the argument the defense was good to very good in the GB and Denver games as well. Even the first Dallas game. GB 24 points 304 yards given up. Denver 17 points and 273 yards given up. Dallas D gave up 20 points 323 yards given up. All in all that 7 game stretch they gave 18.9 pts per game and 290 ypg. extrapolated through entire season thats 3rd in points and 2nd in yards. that was also while playing rodgers, brady, wilson, carr and dak during that stretch 

[Skinsinparadise]

Thought some more about the method to the madness of Bostic and Mayo as backups. 

 

Both dudes for their faults as players are known as real cerebral players -- study to death the opposing offense, etc.

 

So perhaps part of this is both Holcomb and Davis' weaknesses are argubaly play recognition.  So having Mayo and Bostic in the LB room might actually aide the younger LBs. 

 

 

 

[FLSkinz83]

Why do we need both Bostic and Mayo?    

[Chris 44]

43 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Mayo and Apke are back. We've got lots of TEs and Safeties. Lots of big pass rushers in the middle and our Oline is mostly bruisers.

 

A big armed QB and soon a mauling RB will be back. Heinicke still sucks and the QB3 can take his job when he wants.

 

Bring on them Jags!

I can see where Logan Thomas may be out next year, and I really like Logan (not knowing contract situation), but if Bates, Turner and Rogers  show they are who many think they are this year.... and of course show they can stay healthy there may not be room for him.

[Warhead36]

21 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

I could make the argument the defense was good to very good in the GB and Denver games as well. Even the first Dallas game. GB 24 points 304 yards given up. Denver 17 points and 273 yards given up. Dallas D gave up 20 points 323 yards given up. All in all that 7 game stretch they gave 18.9 pts per game and 290 ypg. extrapolated through entire season thats 3rd in points and 2nd in yards. that was also while playing rodgers, brady, wilson, carr and dak during that stretch 

D was not the reason we lost the GB and Denver games. Even average QB play wins us those games.

 

The Packer game was the most frustrating game of all last year. We absolutely should have beaten them.

[CommanderCarson]

Bostic and Mayo are fine backups, we need to draft another guy there next year but doesn’t need to be high unless Jamin doesn’t take the step I think he’s about to.

 

Next year, I would target corner and tackle high. Those are premium positions that we need to continue to stock up. Mid rounds can target LB, Safety, DT if Payne walks, maybe another weapon on O? Can’t have enough of those. But that’s really all that comes to mind, which is pretty exciting.

[philibusters]

3 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

I can see where Logan Thomas may be out next year, and I really like Logan (not knowing contract situation), but if Bates, Turner and Rogers  show they are who many think they are this year.... and of course show they can stay healthy there may not be room for him.

 

It is possible to move on from Logan Thomas after the season, but there is some dead money so if he is still your top TE, I don't think we would, but its feasible from a financial standpoint.

 

https://overthecap.com/player/logan-thomas/3059

[Die Hard]

3 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

I can see where Logan Thomas may be out next year, and I really like Logan (not knowing contract situation), but if Bates, Turner and Rogers  show they are who many think they are this year.... and of course show they can stay healthy there may not be room for him.

I believe Logan signed a 3-year contract before last season. So after this season, he’s signed for another year. Perhaps around $8M.

 

Considering what the other players are earning…. as a unit… there’s no need to cut Thomas. And Thomas was one of Rivera’s first extensions… he must really like the guy. And you know how loyal he is. 😂

[Jericho]

2 hours ago, NoVaSkins21 said:

2 years ago, when Kyle Smith was still here, they signed Ronald Darby to fill in for veteran depth and he was very serviceable. Rivera and this front office are skewing younger with the CBs they brought in  It's like they're adding two additional draft picks for depth.  The philosophies are just very different. 

 

I think the circumstances are very different. Darby was signed during the main free agency period to be a starter. The two CBs the team claimed are back end of the roster types. Back-ups/developmental guys. They're essentially filling different roles and the costs were much different.

What's Wes Martin up to these days? The team went to all the effort to claim him (and I know they tried to claim him another time prior), so I'd figure they'd at least bring him back to the practice squad. Maybe he just doesn't want to be here.

[Ball Security]

I have trouble keeping up with these rule changes since COVID regarding the roster.  The way I understand it, you dress 48 now along one is a third qb and you have at least 8 OL.

If that’s the case, who doesn’t dress?  I’d say Paul, Brown, one CB, one TE (Thomas at first if he needs it, then Rogers), and one more.  Maybe the fifth LB (Mayo or Bostic).

[Zim489]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

Looks like this draft is looming as a disaster.

 

I was surprised that Jahan wasn't cut.    Robinson looked terrible.  Cole Turner we kept hearing was awful.  This odd Amari Rogers experiment at TE was a big failure -- as was the dumb 5th round pick they used for Bates last year.

 

Howell bombed the preseason.

 

Didn't they cut their late rounders, Holmes and Chris Paul?

i still have yet to say anything is bad. Its just not great and thats the problem that for what ever reason you seem to poo poo on every opportunity. 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Zim489

[Jericho]

15 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

I have trouble keeping up with these rule changes since COVID regarding the roster.  The way I understand it, you dress 48 now along one is a third qb and you have at least 8 OL.

If that’s the case, who doesn’t dress?  I’d say Paul, Brown, one CB, one TE (Thomas at first if he needs it, then Rogers), and one more.  Maybe the fifth LB (Mayo or Bostic).

 

That's sort of correct. You can have 48 players active, provided that at least eight of those 48 are offensive linemen (If not, the game-day roster size is limited to 47 players). Third QBs are irrelevant in counting who is active. Normally that would leave 5 inactive. Most like that's Howell, D. Brown, and then one OL (Paul?), one TE (Rogers?), and probably a DL (Toney?). Mind you a team can carry up to 55 players on its roster in a given week by elevating one or two players from its practice squad (there are rules on this too). So that can push it to up to 7 inactive, but that's likely more injury driven.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Jericho

[Ball Security]

30 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

That's sort of correct. You can have 48 players active, provided that at least eight of those 48 are offensive linemen (If not, the game-day roster size is limited to 47 players). Third QBs are irrelevant in counting who is active. Normally that would leave 5 inactive. Most like that's Howell, D. Brown, and then one OL (Paul?), one TE (Rogers?), and probably a DL (Toney?). Mind you a team can carry up to 55 players on its roster in a given week by elevating one or two players from its practice squad (there are rules on this too). So that can push it to up to 7 inactive, but that's likely more injury driven.

So, for simplicity, let’s say they don’t use that 2 player expansion.  Are you saying they can actually dress 49 guys.  47 + 8th OL + Howell?  Howell only able to come in for injuries.  I thought the change to the 47th player was for the third QB, who could only come in in an emergency.  
 

Or are you saying you wouldn’t dress Howell, but accept the risk that if two QBs get knocked out you finish with Thomas/Rogers?

Edited September 1, 2022 by Ball Security

[Mrshadow008]

45 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

D was not the reason we lost the GB and Denver games. Even average QB play wins us those games.

 

The Packer game was the most frustrating game of all last year. We absolutely should have beaten them.

I don't disagree with you at all and kicking problems cost us the Denver game. To be honest the KC game was pretty frustrating as well. Defense forced 3 turnovers in the first half we shoulda been up 28-10 at half time with the way KCs defense had been playing going into that game 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Thought some more about the method to the madness of Bostic and Mayo as backups. 

Seems like desperation and a lack of current alternatives to me.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Est.1974 said:

Seems like desperation and a lack of current alternatives to me.

 

Desperation?  What would be the less desperate signings for backup LB?

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, bowhunter said:

The Kam Curl cast/sling thing is worrisome. When will we know more?

So there was a funny exchange with Nicki Jha-howeveryouspellhername form the Washington Post at the presser.  She asked once, and was told the team didn't have to give a medical report until next week.  So she circled back at the end of the presser, and Ron said, "It's Wednesday, right?  We'll tell you Wednesday when we have to release a medical report."  And Mayhew thought this was funny, and chimed in something like, "that's a good one!"  

 

So the answer is, you're not going to hear a peep about it until next Wednesday when they release their first medical report, or whatever it's called.