The All Things 2022 OTAs/Training Camp Thread

[bird_1972]

Just now, RWJ said:

He's another Deebo Samuel, IMO.  

 

I thought we were hoping Curtis Samuel could be another Deebo.

[Conn]

 

I don’t get and have never gotten the Gibson/Deebo comparisons. This is what I’ve said in the past about it, first in December, in a thread specifically asking if Gibson could be our Deebo:

 

On 12/13/2021 at 11:15 AM, Conn said:

No, imo. And I don’t say it to demean Gibson (although he is overhyped as a talent imo), Deebo is just so damn good. Gibson doesn’t have the polished receiving skills (despite being a “WR” in college), he doesn’t have nearly as much functional athleticism and agility despite being a size/speed freak in terms of measurables, and he doesn’t have the same burning speed around the corner that Deebo does. The dude moves like someone who weighs 175 lbs. 

 

And this is what I said after we drafted Robinson:

 

On 4/29/2022 at 11:34 PM, Conn said:

No. He’ll be used more in line with his ability as a COP, kept fresh through the games and season, used more in the receiving game hopefully. But he’s nothing like Deebo and his athleticism is very very different. Much more straight line and much less dynamic. 

 

I just don’t see it at all. Their skill-sets aren’t comparable beyond a very very surface level glance. And it’s not just “Deebo is a rich man’s version of what Gibson could be”, not at all. Even if you throw away all the fancy schemed rushing touches that makes Deebo unique, and Gibson still straight up can’t play WR at an NFL level like Deebo. Can’t catch or run routes or move like Deebo, isn’t elite after the catch like Deebo. It’s just not a good comparison. 

[Jumbo]

i missed that we had anyone thinking we had another deebo in gibson 😆

 

(no offense to gibby, he has some value if used right)

 

 

that's more of a reach than saying we have another gregg williams in jack del dumbass

[NoCalMike]

I don't think we've even seen enough of Gibson at WR in the NFL to make a good judgement on how good or average he can be.  He's mostly been used as a RB while sometimes catching passes in the flat.  If 2022 sees him lining up and running routes all over the field, that is new for Gibson on this team.

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Jumbo said:

i missed that we had anyone thinking we had another deebo in gibson 😆

 

(no offense to gibby, he has some value if used right)

 

 

that's more of a reach than saying we have another gregg williams in jack del dumbass

Really?  Just saying.  Hey, just my opinion but what do I know.  😀😆

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by RWJ

[skinsfan93]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

Gibson doesn’t have the polished receiving skills (despite being a “WR” in college)

Gibby was not a full time receiver in college. He was a hybrid and now we are switching him to do the same. While he made some strides as a full time running back, I don’t expect much from him lining up strictly as a wide receiver. Hopefully he can do some Deebo like stuff from a rb/slot formation. 
 

He does have some comparables to Deebo (Gibby is slightly taller, a few lbs more and has a better 40 time than Deebo). I don’t see Curtis playing that role very well so hopefully Gibson can be that guy. 

[Warhead36]

I think Gibson is more Chris Thompson than anything else. Hopefully a more healthy version. Thompson was pretty damn good for a couple years but just couldn't stay healthy.

 

Deebo is a freak. He ain't that.

[NoCalMike]

The hope with Gibson (playing more WR) is that his speed will be better utilized by the fact he will more often be receiving the ball in open field versus being handed the ball behind the line of scrimmage where he needs to have the field vision to break through the defenders and make a cut before he can take off.  It's not that he was never able to do it, but the coaches saw enough of him either mising cutback lanes, or taking off too fast before gaps even opened up etc etc.....He doesn't need to be a superstar at WR in order for this to work, he just needs to be one of 3-4 options which likely leaves Gibson in a favorable mismatch when lined up.

 

It is also a project that likely tells coaches the longer term plans because they may see Curtis Samuel as too expensive to resign if he goes out and has a productive year, so can Gibson step into that role or not.  

Edited August 23, 2022 by NoCalMike

[Jumbo]

lot of guys played more than one positions or even more than one sport ,and yeah they all have differing height/weight/40 times

 

and all those comparisons would be endless and relatively pointless in this context

 

if you think all of that automatically somehow 'equalizes' the diffs across the vast depth and breadth of actual individual playing-ability levels among top athletes you could just watch deebo and gibby and see if you spot any diffs in how they play the game, ability-wise, on the field

 

if you see the same level of players there, you're doing it wrong  

 

gibby might be pretty good if used right

 

deebo is flat out stellar right now and is just getting started, and he will be notably superior in many more situations than gibby ever will (that's no slight to gibby)

 

 

but i digress...i'm really here to talk about how i was right all along about willis

 

i think that's what we should all focus on---i was right again

 

 

[dyst]

Gibson is a good player. He definitely has a place on this team and in the NFL, but he is not shifty or quick on his feet, not at this level.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, skinsfan93 said:

Gibby was not a full time receiver in college. He was a hybrid and now we are switching him to do the same. While he made some strides as a full time running back, I don’t expect much from him lining up strictly as a wide receiver. Hopefully he can do some Deebo like stuff from a rb/slot formation. 
 

He does have some comparables to Deebo (Gibby is slightly taller, a few lbs more and has a better 40 time than Deebo). I don’t see Curtis playing that role very well so hopefully Gibson can be that guy. 

As Jumbo rightly says—just literally watch them both play football. They move nothing alike, they are not comparable athletes or players regardless of height/weight/speed. Deebo is an effortlessly springy ball of agility with preternatural vision and instincts as a runner. Gibson is not even a poor man’s version of that, he’s much more of a straight-line athlete still trying to find his place on the field. And don’t get me wrong, there is a place. I’m not saying he sucks or should be cut. He is just not an easy/natural receiver even though his skillset leans that way, and he doesn’t navigate traffic well after the catch or excel finding a lane in a mass of bodies. His speed requires a little more build-up and room to work, rather than being phone booth quick and twitchy. These are all things that make Deebo special downfield, after the catch, and running the ball from behind the LOS. It’s just not a good comparison.
 

I promise I don’t mean this as an insult, because the season I’m about to cite showed a lot of promise—If I had to pick a comp/role that feels right for Gibson, it would be a slightly souped up/healthy version of 2016 Ty Montgomery. If Gibson can be that, but actually break tackles with the experience he’s gained at RB the last two years, that’s a success. And a reasonable outcome imo, rather than a pie-in-the-sky dream. 

[RWJ]

Let AG have some open space at WR and watch him go.  If Turner gives him the opportunities, I think a year we MIGHT be looking at things differently.  

Edited August 23, 2022 by RWJ

[stoshuaj]

We don’t have coaches that know how to utilize Gibson in the same manner as Deebo, even if he had the ability.  That would require a coach to have the creativity to develop plays to enhance a unique skill set.

Edited August 23, 2022 by stoshuaj

[Koolblue13]

Gibson is indecisive and has no confidence, because he doesn't have the natural instincts. 

 

Samuel on the other hand has a chance to explode. He has the vision and his speed is unmatched. I know he wiffed on a 3rd down play in the last preseason game, so people are low on him, but the guy is incredible. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Gibson is our Deebo? Come on, man. Let’s try harder. 😆

[kingdaddy]

On 3rd down, with JD in the backfield, do we roll out Gibson in the 4 wide set? This could mean one less WR (Brown, Milne, Harmon?) make the team and maybe Williams and/or Patterson now does? Especially if Gibson is gonna be the KR/PR.....his demotion could have some major roster ripple effects that leads to keeping an extra player or two in other positions? 

[redskinss]

I don't follow the 49ers so I don't have much reference for a deebo samuel comparison but I just watched his highlights from last year and I think the people in here starved for production are exaggerating about Samuel's skills.

He's good no doubt but he's also helped out tremendously by what is quite possibly the best offensive play caller in football.

By the descriptions of him you'd think he was a Bob Hayes/ Barry sanders clone and i didn't see any of that. Apparently at the combine he ran a 4.48 so he's not blazing fast and I didn't see a whole lot of quick twitch either, I saw a guy who caught a lot of passes with nobody within 20 yards of him which is a credit to both him and Shanahan but I sure as hell didn't see a freak.

That word gets tossed around too loosely these days.

If he was drafted by us and gibson by the 49ers I think we'd be singing a whole different tune, that said I'm not making a comparison between the two just that I don't see anything once in a lifetime special about deebo samuel.

[Skinsinparadise]

Standig yesterday on the radio.  He picked Jamin Davis as a dude that has looked better than expected.   He picked Dyami as a player who has dissappointed -- saying he's had an "underwhelming" camp.  He wondered if he makes the roster but thought he does but just likely ends up inactive on game day.

 

Keim on this morning. Says he believes Robinson is RB #1.  He thinks Armani Rodgers makes this team.   He thinks Chase likely misses at least the first 4 games and probably returns sometime in October. He plugged Wentz some and said look at a minimum he's a major upgrade over the QB play we've had over the last 4 years, best QB since Kirk here. 

[bird_1972]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Standig yesterday on the radio.  He picked Jamin Davis as a dude that has looked better than expected.   He picked Dyami as a player who has dissappointed -- saying he's had an "underwhelming" camp.  He wondered if he makes the roster but thought he does but just likely ends up inactive on game day.

 

Keim on this morning. Says he believes Robinson is RB #1.  He thinks Armani Rodgers makes this team.   He thinks Chase likely misses at least the first 4 games and probably returns sometime in October. He plugged Wentz some and said look at a minimum he's a major upgrade over the QB play we've had over the last 4 years, best QB since Kirk here. 

 

Interesting take by Standig on Davis. We really need this to be true, given our LB situation and 3rd down D. 

 

I'm disappointed to hear about Dyami Brown. I was hoping he'd make a jump this year especially with a better QB passing him the ball. 

 

I'm banking on Robinson as RB1 and will plan accordingly, fantasy-wise. 😎

[HigSkin]

Can't post over in the All things Defense thread because of a virus warning so will put this in here but interesting take on our Defense.

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2022/8/17/23307846/projecting-nfl-defense-baltimore-ravens-san-francisco-49ers-tampa-bay-buccaneers-los-angeles-rams

 

Predicting How Every NFL Defense Will Perform in 2022

19. Washington Commanders

They were third in defensive DVOA in 2020 and then fell to 27th last year. The most likely scenario in 2022 is that the Commanders settle in the mediocre range this season.

One reason to be somewhat optimistic that the Commanders can rebound is their performance on third and fourth downs last year. According to the Football Outsiders Almanac, Washington was last in DVOA on third and fourth downs and nearly 10 percent worse than any other team. Football Outsiders’ research suggests that that’s usually something which regresses to the mean from one year to the next.

 

Given the investment the Commanders have made in their defensive line, they need the pass rush to be dominant. Last year, it was not. In fact, they had the worst pass defense in the NFL (EPA per play) when they rushed four or fewer.

The Commanders still have plenty of talent on the defensive line with Montez Sweat, Jonathan Allen and Daron Payne. Chase Young is coming back from a torn ACL and could miss the start of the season. 2021 first-round pick Jamin Davis needs to give the Commanders more in his second season. They have good continuity in the secondary.

 

Bottom line: This defense should be better than it was a year ago.

[Skinsinparadise]

Standig

 

 

[Chris 44]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Standig

 

 

The part referencing the running backs has me giddy!

[bird_1972]

1 hour ago, Chris 44 said:

The part referencing the running backs has me giddy!

 

The part referencing the linebackers has me worried

[KDawg]

Do people not realize Samuel is an excellent receiver/playmaker? He's a stud. He just has to stay healthy. If he is he's going to do a lot of positive things for this offense.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

11 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

The part referencing the linebackers has me worried

 

Yes and no. It's simply too early to tell how Davis and Holcomb look. I believe in the reports that Davis looks more natural and seems to get the position, but he was so out of his element last season that big improvement could still be a meh linebacker.

 

I don't think that's the spot to worry. Instead I'm kind of worried about CB. All the hype for St. Juste seems to have fallen off and rumors of the defense wanting to use more multiple different 3 safety looks rather than incorporating more of St. Juste is concerning. We also have zero CB depth. Early hype for 7th rounder Holmes was over quickly. Danny Johnson and Corn Elder are not adequate depth. I'm hopeful that William Jackson and Fuller will play well, but I don't expect either to be great. Good play from 2 corners is a plus over last season, but that might be all we have.