The All Things 2022 OTAs/Training Camp Thread

[Mrshadow008]

1 hour ago, CommanderCarson said:

Wasn’t Gibson like 6th in rushing yards last year? He’s made some big plays and churns out a lot of chunk yardage.

 

This has gotten dumb. He’s not going anywhere, nor should he. 
 

I love that he will become more of a complimentary piece and potentially will boost teams to make it more dynamic. But the he has no value and we should move on from him crowd I think is being a little reactionary. Are the fumbles a huge concern? Absolutely. Should he be an in between the tackles runner? Absolutely not. Should we be talking about him like he’s worthless to us and around the league? Nah.

To your top point yes. However he was also one of the worst in the league based on ypc vs expected ypc based on blocking. Meaning he’s missing holes because of his lack of vision. There was even a play Saturday where he had a giant hole inside and if he sees it and hits it he’s likely got a 60-70 yard house call. He’s getting yards based almost solely on his pure athletic ability. Now having said that I in no way think Gibson should be traded. But I don’t think he should be every down back either he would absolutely thrive as a change of pace back. After getting beat up by Robinson trying to tackle the 212 lb guy with sub 4.4 speed would not be fun for a defense 

[Thinking Skins]

My feelings for Gibson are like they for Guice years ago. I liked him because he could be a star but time was running out. Guice kept getting hurt. Gibson is fumbling and just not showing the potential. So I have no problem letting him go or trading him right now. I wouldn't advocate it but RB is the most replaceable position in the league. I honestly wish we had a Rob Kelley or Alfred Morris type to come in and challenge for a spot. I like Williams but don't think he's anything special. Same with Patterson. Maybe they'll look at roster cuts though. 

3 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

To your top point yes. However he was also one of the worst in the league based on ypc vs expected ypc based on blocking. Meaning he’s missing holes because of his lack of vision. There was even a play Saturday where he had a giant hole inside and if he sees it and hits it he’s likely got a 60-70 yard house call. He’s getting yards based almost solely on his pure athletic ability. Now having said that I in no way think Gibson should be traded. But I don’t think he should be every down back either he would absolutely thrive as a change of pace back. After getting beat up by Robinson trying to tackle the 212 lb guy with sub 4.4 speed would not be fun for a defense 

This is way too nerdy for me and I'm a math guy. I can agree on his vision and the studder step stuff. But he also breaks tackles, gets positive yards, gets first downs and touchdowns. People are saying he got 3 when he should have gotten 5, but hell he got 3. He got 1000 yards and nobody else in the NFC did. People are saying he should have gotten 1200 or another back would have, but they may have gone down or had other problems. 

 

It's hard to do anything in this league and we shouldn't dismiss what's been done just to say somebody else could have done more. 

[Mrshadow008]

6 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

My feelings for Gibson are like they for Guice years ago. I liked him because he could be a star but time was running out. Guice kept getting hurt. Gibson is fumbling and just not showing the potential. So I have no problem letting him go or trading him right now. I wouldn't advocate it but RB is the most replaceable position in the league. I honestly wish we had a Rob Kelley or Alfred Morris type to come in and challenge for a spot. I like Williams but don't think he's anything special. Same with Patterson. Maybe they'll look at roster cuts though. 

This is way too nerdy for me and I'm a math guy. I can agree on his vision and the studder step stuff. But he also breaks tackles, gets positive yards, gets first downs and touchdowns. People are saying he got 3 when he should have gotten 5, but hell he got 3. He got 1000 yards and nobody else in the NFC did. People are saying he should have gotten 1200 or another back would have, but they may have gone down or had other problems. 

 

It's hard to do anything in this league and we shouldn't dismiss what's been done just to say somebody else could have done more. 

I don’t disagree and it’s why I’m saying I wouldn’t trade him by any stretch but I just don’t think he’s going to be best used as an every down back. I think he can still be highly productive if not more so as the change of pace guy even if the numbers don’t necessarily show that from an eye test point of view 

[TheShredder]

6 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

I don’t disagree and it’s why I’m saying I wouldn’t trade him by any stretch but I just don’t think he’s going to be best used as an every down back. I think he can still be highly productive if not more so as the change of pace guy even if the numbers don’t necessarily show that from an eye test point of view 

They envisioned a Swiss Army Knife, then turned him into a butter knife worth a ham sandwich.

 

[skinsfan93]

2 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Gibson is dynamic with the ball in his hands. Talk of cutting him or trading him is silly. Put him in a better position to succeed and let him make plays. I still think he can help us win games.

We don’t need a running back who is “dynamic “. We need a guy who’s gonna churn out 4-5 tough yards on first down. Not one who gets to the line, doesn’t see the hole, hesitates and gains zero or loses yards. Where is he supposed 4.3 speed? Last year he had one play on a screen pass where he looked dynamic.
 

We have given him opportunities. He is a square peg in a round hole situation. Is he viable running back in this league. Yes but he’s still has a long way to go when it comes to understanding how to play the position. Along the way, he continues to fumble and gets hurt too often. He supposedly dropped weight this offseason but still was hurt at the beginning of training camp. 
 

Im ready to move on. Give me some BRob!

[Skinsinparadise]

I am as frustrated as anyone about the fumbles with Gibson.  From what i recall it wasn't as issue in college and not either in his rookie season. 

 

Happened last year.  He fumbled in his first preseason game.  Rivera went out of his way to make it clear it can't happen again.  So the dude is human, he might have been shaken up enough about it all to fix this, i guess will see.  He's come to camp, leaner and meaner -- forgot what the result was but if I recall he has like 6% body fat now, after some intense off season work outs and dieting and is gearing up for a big season. 

 

The dude is 220 pounds and runs a sub 4.4.  He's a freak.   He can be a good weapon for us.  I actually like him better in a limited role.   Use him in space more.  I like the idea of kick offs.   He's not a natural bell cow type IMO.  He's a different type of weapon.  But no way am I throwing him out the door.  

Edited August 17, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Dan T.]

 

[TheShredder]

They have to get a RG. I expect Turner likely goes to IR. If he comes back he will never be full strength this year.

Torn quad that isn't surgically repaired is never the same and can take a year to fuse deep enough to rehab effectively.

Already OL injuries are continuing to degrade potential results. Why this team doesn't fill holes effectively is gross negligence.

[Thinking Skins]

3 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

I don’t disagree and it’s why I’m saying I wouldn’t trade him by any stretch but I just don’t think he’s going to be best used as an every down back. I think he can still be highly productive if not more so as the change of pace guy even if the numbers don’t necessarily show that from an eye test point of view 

Everything Ron has said indicates he'll be used similar to Carolina in years past, meaning a split backfield. Even with the fumbles, it's nothing new. I don't think he's a 300 carry guy but he's shown he can get yards in this league so it's not like he's some bum off the street. 

[FLSkinz83]

41 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am as frustrated as anyone about the fumbles with Gibson.  From what i recall it wasn't as issue in college and not either in his rookie season. 

 

Happened last year.  He fumbled in his first preseason game.  Rivera went out of his way to make it clear it can't happen again.  So the dude is human, he might have been shaken up enough about it all to fix this, i guess will see.  He's come to camp, leaner and meaner -- forgot what the result was but if I recall he has like 6% body fat now, after some intense off season work outs and dieting and is gearing up for a big season. 

 

The dude is 220 pounds and runs a sub 4.4.  He's a freak.   He can be a good weapon for us.  I actually like him better in a limited role.   Use him in space more.  I like the idea of kick offs.   He's not a natural bell cow type IMO.  He's a different type of weapon.  But no way am I throwing him out the door.  

 

Maybe he can become a Cordarelle Patterson type?   

 

I have a bigger problem with his RB skills than his fumbling.   He lacks vision and instincts.   

[Mrshadow008]

9 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Everything Ron has said indicates he'll be used similar to Carolina in years past, meaning a split backfield. Even with the fumbles, it's nothing new. I don't think he's a 300 carry guy but he's shown he can get yards in this league so it's not like he's some bum off the street. 

I agree with you and what @Skinsinparadise said above. I think having brob on the team who hopefully be more of the bell cow type back could be a blessing in disguise for us and Gibson. And as sip pointed out he dropped a bunch of fat and 8 lbs as well I think I saw going into otas he had dropped to about 212. If he can solve the fumbling between him, brob, mckissic with a healthy (hopefully)  Samuel sprinkled in gives us a ton of versatility in the backfield 

[FLSkinz83]

28 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

They have to get a RG. I expect Turner likely goes to IR. If he comes back he will never be full strength this year.

Torn quad that isn't surgically repaired is never the same and can take a year to fuse deep enough to rehab effectively.

Already OL injuries are continuing to degrade potential results. Why this team doesn't fill holes effectively is gross negligence.

 

Whoa.  Where did torn quad come from?   

[kingdaddy]

5 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Isn't he the guy who says "gotcha" all the time? I think JP nicknamed him "Gotcha."  

 

The media here is ass a lot.  But they have spoken into existence that it's not a hard media market, and since they control the narrative, few people believe how ass it actually is.  

 

I said this before: there is no team in the NFL who is trading a half eaten ham sandwich for a RB who has vision and fumbling problems.  Somebody challenged me, and I said a team would rather eat sand than trade for Gibson.  He's not trade bait.  He has zero value to anybody because he can't hit the hole, shuffles his feet, and fumbles.  

 

He's on the roster until he's released or re-signed.  I think this might be his last year on the roster unless he finds a role he is exceptional at.  

Well I guess we'll just take your word for it....no team would trade for a 24 year old 1000 yard rusher. If you say he's not trade bait then it must be true. You said it before and now you repeated it. I get it...he is here to stay.

6 hours ago, duffy said:

Yeah, I kinda hope they move him. He hasn't developed the way we were hoping. And I'm not really surprised. He is not a between the tackles guy. I'm really glad we retained JDMK now. I wasn't at first. 

 

If you can get Roquan for a package that includes AG, I'd certainly be interested. 

 

I'd probably even trade AG straight up for Damien Harris. Sounds like both could use a change of scenery. 

Voice of Reason says no team wants him and we're stuck with him so it's not gonna happen. Teams don't want 24 year old 1000 yard rushers with fumbling issues. He's said it twice now so it must be true. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Conn]

Dotson highlight off a Heinicke lowlight 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[FootballZombie]

7 minutes ago, Conn said:

Dotson highlight off a Heinicke lowlight 

 

Any idea if that is Dot playing w/ the 2s or TH playing w/ the 1s?

[Simmsy]

On 8/16/2022 at 3:50 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

this draft didn't age well

 

 

 

 

 

 Dammit, Trey Quinn! I would've gone gay for you! Gayyyyyy!!!!

[wit33]

21 hours ago, Conn said:

I wasn’t making a comment about Payne, just responding to your seeming confusion over the idea that even a good player might try harder in a contract year, in order to earn a big contract. It’s just about the biggest trope in sports, and for good reason. 

I can see the argument a guy prepares at a higher level in a given off-season, but that requires exploring a persons process day in and day out. The sack metric is what Payne will be judged on, which is a fleeting and a fickle stat, especially for an interior DLineman. 
 

I will concede the point of a guy coming into camp weighing less/better shape, something we can visually see and player often talks about. I haven’t heard of anything like this regarding Payne, maybe I missed it? This often happens outside of contract years though.  
 

21 hours ago, Llevron said:

This can’t be the first time you encountered this line of thinking. It’s pretty common and has been for decades. 

Was Curious to here rationale from others.
 

It attaches unwarranted labels to guys and ventures into territory of understanding someone’s “why”. I imagine the consensus here these days is Payne doesn’t work as hard as this or that guy. Engaging in a bit lazy analysis myself, when I watch Payne he often flashes on the screen, plays sideline to sideline, and appears to give consistent effort. Also, he generally leads leads the DLineman in snap percentage and is incredibly durable. 
 

Payne has steadily improved each year by most reports. Let’s hope that continues. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Warhead36]

People need to stop screaming the "1000 yard" stuff. 1000 yards really isn't that impressive nowadays in a 17 game offense friendly league where teams basically let you run the ball on them because the priority is to stop the pass. Gibson's production was off sheer volume. You give any half decent back that many carries and he'll get you 1000. He simply was not a good RB last year. Doesn't mean he doesn't have talent, but he needs to be utilized more as a RB/WR hybrid type, move him around in space, etc. 

[TheShredder]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Translation: We're pumping him full of encouragement because if he's not better we're screwed.

Reality: He can't be worse than last year. (Ranked dead last)

[Malapropismic Depository]

46 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

The scouting report on Dotson said he had great hands.

But failed to mention he also has great knees.

 

[Llevron]

43 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

People need to stop screaming the "1000 yard" stuff. 1000 yards really isn't that impressive nowadays in a 17 game offense friendly league where teams basically let you run the ball on them because the priority is to stop the pass. Gibson's production was off sheer volume. You give any half decent back that many carries and he'll get you 1000. He simply was not a good RB last year. Doesn't mean he doesn't have talent, but he needs to be utilized more as a RB/WR hybrid type, move him around in space, etc. 

 

Which is part of why I think this is best for both the team and him. He just can’t carry the ball that much. He’s ineffective that way. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Voice of Reason says no team wants him and we're stuck with him so it's not gonna happen. Teams don't want 24 year old 1000 yard rushers with fumbling issues. He's said it twice now so it must be true. 

Nope.  They don't.  What could we get for a RB who has vision problems and fumbling issues?  If WE can't trust him to be an RB1, why would somebody else trade an asset to get him to try and fix him?  He also picks some of the worst times to fumble. 

 

So, what, are we going to get a 6th or 7th for him?  Is that really worth it?

 

He's worth more as our backup RB/Gadget guy than he is worth in a trade.  

 

And you can make fun of me saying there's no chance all you want.  But, really, there is almost no chance.  For both of the reasons I outlined:

1. No team is going to give up an asset for a RB who misses holes and has fumbling issues.

2. If some team was dumb enough to try it, it would be for a value less than the value of having Gibson on the team.

 

So, he'll still be here, probably as the backup RB and gadget guy, which might be a really good role for him.