Wentz Traded to Washington for 2 3rd Rounders per Bleacher Report

[ntotoro]

8 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

 

I mean, seriously lol....Resting Dejected Face, ladies and gentlepersons...

 

 

 

 

"It's the face that says 'I hate my life'..."

 

I bet he has his fingers crossed in that pic if you could scroll down... 🤣

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 4/2/2022 at 10:49 PM, Darth Tater said:

Totally disagree with you about average. Average means we still need an elite QB to become a consistent winner and would probably mean we will still be looking at the same time the rest of the roster needs an upgrade. Average means a 9-8 season losing a game or two we should not lose. Good enough for that three to become a two but not worth that amount.

 

Smith, while not great QB, was a great athlete before the big injury. Reid's offensive system fit his style perfectly. Smith was a great field general. Reid is also the most awesome guy at selecting and developing QBs currently in the biz (he also is of the lineage of Holmgren and Walsh). Smith withheld his negative opinions about the organization until he was done. Wentz reminds me of the good employee who can't hold his tongue about incompetent management and withhold unwelcome opinions, even if he thinks he is right.

So maybe "Average" is the wrong term. I think Wentz is going to give us top half of the league QB play.  

 

The way I see it, you have the top top tier, elite QBs.  You have to be somewhat lucky to get one of those guys: There are generally 3 paths to get to one of these:

 

1. Absolute pure, blind luck.  Rodgers was a late first round pick who the Packers liked, but sat for 4 years behind Favre.  If they knew exactly what they had in Rodgers, they wouldn't have done the dance with Favre for as long as they did.  Brady - 6th round pick, gets a chance because Bledsoe got hurt.  Wilson, signed in the 3rd round, they had paid big money to (I can't remember who, backup from GB) who they expected to be the started, and then Wilson beat him out in camp and here we are.  None of these teams KNEW they were getting a top 5 QB when they got them.  

 

2. You suck uncontrollably the year before a franchise guy is drafted in the top 3 or 4 of the draft, AND that pick works out.  So, the Colts with Peyton, and then to a lesser extent Luck.  Bengals with Burrow.  I'd argue the Lions with Stafford, except they wasted 3/4 of his career.  And it doesn't have to be a top 3 pick, but I count this somewhere in the top 12-15. You could also trade up for one of these guys, but to my memory, the only trade-up from outside the top 15 into the top 15 to get a QB which has worked spectacularly well has been Mahomes.  Trades up to 2, for the most part, have been a failure for the team making the trade: Griffin, Wentz, Mitch as the three I can remember.  NOTE: I am still optimistic about Wentz.  But he hasn't lived up to the #2 pick level of play.  

 

3.  You hit gold with a FA or trade.  This is really, really rare.  Brady to Tampa.  Wilson to Denver.  Back in the day, Brees to New Orleans, Peyton to Denver, Favre to the Jets, but more so the Vikings, and way far back, Montana to the Chiefs.  I'm sure there are some others I'm forgetting. But top-end QBs don't move around much. 

 

So, we know we don't ever have any luck. At least not good luck.  So we're most likely just not going to luck into a guy.

 

We could draft a guy and that guy could turn into a stud.  Ron has said the Wentz talks heated up in Indy during the combine.  To me this says loudly "we have evaluated the QBs in this draft, all of them are a longshot to develop into that guy.  We're going another direction.  Which doesn't mean they can't get a guy in the 4th and try and develop them.  But it means they didn't see somebody who could start immediately and develop into a top 5 starter in this draft.

 

We're not going to hit the gold mind (yet) with a trade for a top-5 veteran.  

 

So, I'm going to take the top 10-15 QB play, and say that's better than anything we've had since Kirk left, and be happy with it.  And if we can build on that and draft a guy who can develop, great.  

 

I'm just so tired of such unbelievably bad QB play.  And I think Wentz will be at least top-10-ish level, and I'm fine with that.  

 

[Simmsy]

2 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

 

I mean, seriously lol....Resting Dejected Face, ladies and gentlepersons...

 

 

 

 

"It's the face that says 'I hate my life'..."

 

I was ok with him coming here, but now that I've really seen his face...

[wit33]

Wentz is absolutely a guy who can earn a wild card spot, then get hot and win games against whomever in the way to shocking SB run.  

And he’s been playing backyard football his whole life— It’s the new NFL, like it or not. Think of the NBA before Steph Curry arrived, the NFL comp is Aaron Rodgers. Dare I say a poor mans Aaron Rodgers (Wentz). Washington has a Bradley Beal level QB, let’s roll. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by wit33

[Riggo#44]

3 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

 

Moment is too big for a player: not high throws or knee down a hair too soon. More like this lol:

 

 

 

 

 

But seriously, it's body language, facial expressions, lack of energy, etc, etc...want to do a fun exercise? Google "Wentz dejected" and look at the image results.

 

Then do "Heinicke dejected" and compare the images....then for ****s and giggles, search "Kirk Cousins dejected" lol...you'll notice an obvious difference in the search results between the three.

 

Maybe Wentz just has RDF (Resting Dejected Face) and can't help how he looks after he ****s up lol. And maybe Heinicke suffers from RPOF (Resting Pissed-Off Face) and just ends up looking like he's angry at himself when he ****s up and gets pulled from the game. I dunno.

You're making arbitrary excuses for Heinickes many bad plays while cherry picking Wentz bad plays to prove what, exactly? Some nebulous platitude? Are you so desperate to prove Heinicke is what, exactly? So desperate you've taken to talking out of your ass. You can read anything you want into any picture.

 

 

[CommanderCarson]

I don’t know if I really understand why it’s so important for those that want to rain on the Heineke parade. He had some good moments and some bad ones but he definitely proved he belonged in the NFL as an emergency stop gap starter and has to be an upper echelon NFL backup. And those are important and hard to come by. 
 

The team went out and got someone who they view as much better that can really open up the playbook. And the difference between the 15th best QB and 28th-30th (Taylor probably fits somewhere in here) is monumental, which is why they sent the picks and took on the salary. A guy like Wentz is going to give so much more space for guys like Gibson and Terry (and hopefully Samuel) to operate.

 

I think I like the idea of going receiver at 11 unless Sauce or Hamilton are there. We can definitely get by on defense with who we have and a couple of lower tier free agent band aids, let’s build an offense that can rival anyone in the league and just pray our pass rush and defense can clamp down and protect a lead.

[evmiii]

If Wentz will simply accept that he will throw ZERO passes underhanded under any circumstances he has the potential to be very effective.  No shuttle passes, no underhanded tosses to avoid sacks, etc…. I hope they do as Ron said they would and build a play sheet around what Carson does well.  He is very effective at throwing the ball down field - let’s do that.  We are probably drafting one of those speedy Ohio State wide receivers and he and Terry, Curtis and Dyami should be able to stretch the field.  I am cautiously optimistic that we will have much more success in this endeavor which in turn should make the rest of the offense more effective.

[zCommander]

"I do feel it," Rivera said of the pressure. "This is the year that says, 'We're going to ascend.' And we should be ascending."

 

 

"The third season is when you take another step," Rivera said this offseason. "This area is hungry for a winner. They want a winner and I want to win."

 

He'll try to do it with Wentz. In Washington, he's viewed as an upgrade, not just over Taylor Heinicke -- a player they like, but view as a high-end backup -- but over the quarterback play of the past four seasons. Some corners of the NFL paint Wentz more as a risk, pointing to the fact that he has been traded twice in a year. Regardless, Rivera's future is now tied to the 2016 No. 2 overall pick.

 

"It gets us a few steps in the right direction," Rivera said of acquiring Wentz.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33647596/after-landing-carson-wentz-ron-rivera-says-commanders-ascending

[Warhead36]

If you're not a legit playoff contender by the third year of a coach's reign then its time to start over, barring disastrous injury luck.

[wit33]

2 hours ago, evmiii said:

If Wentz will simply accept that he will throw ZERO passes underhanded under any circumstances he has the potential to be very effective.  No shuttle passes, no underhanded tosses to avoid sacks, etc…. I hope they do as Ron said they would and build a play sheet around what Carson does well.  He is very effective at throwing the ball down field - let’s do that.  We are probably drafting one of those speedy Ohio State wide receivers and he and Terry, Curtis and Dyami should be able to stretch the field.  I am cautiously optimistic that we will have much more success in this endeavor which in turn should make the rest of the offense more effective.

I want all the underhanded and shuttle passes, he’s not a dude who’s going to dissect a defense from the pocket. Don’t put a governor on him, just let him ball out and live with the results. This type of QB will have a bad game or games, but can carry you for a game or games as well.  
 

Want no part as an organization of middling football.
 

Go all in on a direction to see the sincere truth. 

[mistertim]

20 hours ago, CommanderCarson said:

I don’t know if I really understand why it’s so important for those that want to rain on the Heineke parade. He had some good moments and some bad ones but he definitely proved he belonged in the NFL as an emergency stop gap starter and has to be an upper echelon NFL backup. And those are important and hard to come by. 
 

The team went out and got someone who they view as much better that can really open up the playbook. And the difference between the 15th best QB and 28th-30th (Taylor probably fits somewhere in here) is monumental, which is why they sent the picks and took on the salary. A guy like Wentz is going to give so much more space for guys like Gibson and Terry (and hopefully Samuel) to operate.

 

I think I like the idea of going receiver at 11 unless Sauce or Hamilton are there. We can definitely get by on defense with who we have and a couple of lower tier free agent band aids, let’s build an offense that can rival anyone in the league and just pray our pass rush and defense can clamp down and protect a lead.

 

You're very new so you didn't experience the Heinicke Hive. There aren't any posters here who hate Heinicke or don't view him as at least a decent backup.

 

The problem is that there were a bunch of posters who were basically official members of the Heinicke fan club (there was a thread called the Heinicke Hive) and they spent day and night telling everyone how he was the future and calling anyone who didn't agree a "hater". Then when he started to play poorly they made every excuse under the sun. It was the coaches fault, the OL's fault, the receivers fault, injuries, etc.

 

It got really old and they became insufferable. So that unfortunately ended up with many people getting sick of dealing with them and hearing about Heinicke...even after it was abundantly clear that neither the Washington coaches or FO saw him as a starting caliber NFL QB.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

30 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

You're very new so you didn't experience the Heinicke Hive. There aren't any posters here who hate Heinicke or don't view him as at least a decent backup.

I’m not so sure that’s true. Seems to me there are people who rate him way too high and people who rate him way too low.

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I’m not so sure that’s true. Seems to me there are people who rate him way too high and people who rate him way too low.

 

Sure it's possible, but I don't think I've seen people say he's not even backup caliber. The general sentiment among the non-hive seems to be that he's at least a decent backup, but doesn't have the talent to be a starting NFL QB.

[skinny21]

24 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Sure it's possible, but I don't think I've seen people say he's not even backup caliber. The general sentiment among the non-hive seems to be that he's at least a decent backup, but doesn't have the talent to be a starting NFL QB.

If you’re going a ways back, then yeah maybe so.  More recently though (the past few months), I think there are more people that feel he doesn’t belong in the NFL than see him as a capable-good starter, and still more that question whether he’s even a decent backup.

[evmiii]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

I want all the underhanded and shuttle passes, he’s not a dude who’s going to dissect a defense from the pocket. Don’t put a governor on him, just let him ball out and live with the results. This type of QB will have a bad game or games, but can carry you for a game or games as well.  
 

Want no part as an organization of middling football.
 

Go all in on a direction to see the sincere truth. 

I’m not looking to handcuff the play calling, but it only makes sense to run the plays the QB and offense are most comfortable and successful running.  Watching Wentz’s film is is pretty clear that’s not one of them.

[wit33]

49 minutes ago, evmiii said:

I’m not looking to handcuff the play calling, but it only makes sense to run the plays the QB and offense are most comfortable and successful running.  Watching Wentz’s film is is pretty clear that’s not one of them.

Max out his potential and encourage him to do so is the path to take. The idea of restricting or protecting him against himself is a losing approach, in my opinion. Let the dude live out his truth as a football player. He was best when on top of the world and celebrated for his willingness to play backyard football. 
 

This isn’t all directed at you by the way. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, wit33 said:

I want all the underhanded and shuttle passes, he’s not a dude who’s going to dissect a defense from the pocket. Don’t put a governor on him, just let him ball out and live with the results. This type of QB will have a bad game or games, but can carry you for a game or games as well.  
 

Want no part as an organization of middling football.
 

Go all in on a direction to see the sincere truth. 

 

As for Wentz digesting everything I can including a long expose about him from a Colts reporter on Standig's podcast.   The picture I get about Wentz is he's a high variance player.  Major highs.  Major lows.  He's a wild ride.  They say his TD-INT ratio last season doesn't paint the picture of his roller coaster play.

 

Actually he is described as a dude who will dissect a defense from the pocket if we are talking in terms of reading coverages.  He's seen to some extent as a savant on that front.  40 wonderlic.  Studies like mad. Butted heads with some of his offensive coordinators because of how hands on he is as changing plays at the line of scrimmage, among other things. Supposedly photographic memory.  But if you mean he doesn't like to just hang in the pocket, that's certaintly true, he likes to scramble and make plays. 

 

He's supposedly a nice guy.  Really tough dude.  He has a quick release with a gun of an arm.  Still has good mobility.

 

The main beef they seem to have about Wentz is they don't find him to be clutch.  Didn't make big plays in big moments enough for them -- it wasn't just the Jacksonville game.  And that combined with his inconsistency bugged them.  Reich wanted to stay on that ride though supposedly but Irsay wanted to move on.  Irsay talking to other players in the locker room who told him the Jacksonville game was no accident seems to imply that some in that locker room didn't dig Wentz.  But according to most, Wentz is liked by most in the locker room but just doesn't have the personality that crossed over where everyone loves him. 

 

He's also super religious, can be a bit preachy about it.  Some say some players dig that but not all. 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

43 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Max out his potential and encourage him to do so is the path to take. The idea of restricting or protecting him against himself is a losing approach, in my opinion. Let the dude live out his truth as a football player. He was best when on top of the world and celebrated for his willingness to play backyard football.

 

Its all well and good to be creative and risky but there has to be limits.

 

Even if it works, there are just some things that should not be done at the NFL level that causes every coach to shave a year off their life when they see their QB doing it. Stuff like throwing across your body to the opposite side of the field.

 

A lot of QBs try to bail themselves out of a sack with a push pass or shovel pass. Its not good, but a lot of guys do it so it does not bother me too much.

 

What I never want to see is the left handed over the shoulder throw while getting sacked that Wentz seems to employ. Dude pulled it out his bag several times last season alone. Lets make sure we coach that one away first.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[redskinss]

12 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

Stuff like throwing across your body to the opposite side of the field

Which is usually a bad decision but coincidentally wentz may be the best I've ever seen at doing it.

Watching his highlights I was impressed by some things and not so impressed by others but one thing that absolutely jumped off the screen was that I can't remember ever seeing a quarterback who was as good as he is at throwing back across his body.

The velocity he has on those passes is astonishing, that's why it's usually a no no because your passes float and come in late, not his!

[88Comrade2000]

18 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

If you're not a legit playoff contender by the third year of a coach's reign then its time to start over, barring disastrous injury luck.

Expect here there's an additional obstacle; Dan Snyder and all his stench.

[wit33]

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As for Wentz digesting everything I can including a long expose about him from a Colts reporter on Standig's podcast.   The picture I get about Wentz is he's a high variance player.  Major highs.  Major lows.  He's a wild ride.  They say his TD-INT ratio last season doesn't paint the picture of his roller coaster play.

 

He appears from what I’ve seen and gathered to be a guy who is average to below in terms of providing flow and rhythm to an offense. I remember feeling this way when he was with the Eagles (even early on), spectacular plays mixed in with broken plays. For example, Alex Smith was good to great in providing flow, identity, and rhythm, but below average in providing great plays. 

 

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Actually he is described as a dude who will dissect a defense from the pocket if we are talking in terms of reading coverages.  He's seen to some extent as a savnt on that front.  40 wonderlic.  Studies like mad. Butted heads with some of his offensive coordinators because of how hands on he is as changing plays at the line of scrimmage, among other things. Supposedly photographic memory.  But if you mean he doesn't like to just hang in the pocket, that's certaintly true, he likes to scramble and make plays. 
 

 

I’ve caught the stuff you’ve posted previously about smart he is. You hit it, I was more referencing his approach to the QB spot and that seems to be a lot of creating and extending in an attempt to gain better control of the outcome (in his mind). I dont dislike this approach, I’ve speculated this is the new way of approaching the QB spot, why go through 3,4, and 5 reads in the pocket if you can escape to an area to decrease percentage of a sack and provide more time for guys to get open. 

 

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He's supposedly a nice guy.  Really tough dude.  He has a quick release with a gun of an arm.  Still has good mobility.

 

Fantastic traits— hope they let him ball out. Tell him to be the MVP of the league, none of this protecting him from himself stuff. 
 

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The main beef they seem to have about Wentz is they don't find him to be clutch.  Didn't make big plays in big moments enough for them -- it wasn't just the Jacksonville game.  And that combined with his inconsistency bugged them. 
 

How do you define clutch? What is it you? Is there only one clutch QB each season due to all others losing— 100% hyperbole on my part. 
 

The not being clutch logic would have to apply to Marino and Rodgers, right? Or Elway until Terrel Davis came along. 

 

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Reich wanted to stay on that ride though supposedly but Irsay wanted to move on.  Irsay talking to other players in the locker room who told him the Jacksonville game was no accident seems to imply that some in that locker room didn't dig Wentz.  But according to most, Wentz is liked by most in the locker room but just doesn't have the personality that crossed over where everyone loves him. 
 

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He's also super religious, can be a bit preachy about it.  Some say some players dig that but not all. 

 

 

Hoping him getting older will provide a different dynamic with younger players. Younger dudes respecting him as an elder statesmen with a family versus being one of them. Older guys aren’t going to care as long as he’s performing.  

 

17 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Its all well and good to be creative and risky but there has to be limits.

As long as the limits align with his football truth. Don’t want him playing a part he’s not comfortable with—will result in bad returns most likely. 

 

17 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Even if it works, there are just some things that should not be done at the NFL level that causes every coach to shave a year off their life when they see their QB doing it. Stuff like throwing across your body to the opposite side of the field.

 

I want it all, win football games. I’m with you in hoping he finds a happy balance within himself on those type of plays. Across body type throws is becoming a pre requisite for the QB—it’s a new NFL and QB. Think NBA before Steph Curry. 
 

17 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

A lot of QBs try to bail themselves out of a sack with a push pass or shovel pass. Its not good, but a lot of guys do it so it does not bother me too much.

 

We are probably talking about a play that will happen 4-6 times in a season— go for it Wentz. 
 

17 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

What I never want to see is the left handed over the shoulder throw while getting sacked that Wentz seems to employ. Dude pulled it out his bag several times last season alone. Lets make sure we coach that one away first.

Don't want any improv or feel coached out of him. Sure, assist with understanding and attempt to understand him in those situations. 

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by wit33

[FootballZombie]

4 hours ago, redskinss said:

The velocity he has on those passes is astonishing, that's why it's usually a no no because your passes float and come in late, not his!

 

Unless he can get the kind of velocity he can produce from a standard throwing motion, which no one can of course, it will remain a cardinal sin of QB play.

It does not matter if it works, it will never be more reliable then the mechanics that were honed and practiced.

 

Backyard football can be a lot of things, it does not have to break stalwart truths about the QB position.

 

 

[redskinss]

2 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Unless he can get the kind of velocity he can produce from a standard throwing motion, which no one can of course, it will remain a cardinal sin of QB play.

It does not matter if it works, it will never be more reliable then the mechanics that were honed and practiced.

 

Backyard football can be a lot of things, it does not have to break stalwart truths about the QB position.

 

 

I agree, it's certainly not a good thing to do regularly. 

 

I just couldn't believe how many times he threw off balance and or across his body with so much zip.

 

Definitely not something to rely on but nice to have a quarterback with so much arm talent for a change.

Wentz has plenty of red flags and question marks but I'm very impressed with how effortlessly he can zip the ball with mostly just his arm and not entire body.

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim on Sheehan's show.  Sheehan again tried to drive the narrrative against Wentz which is pretty amusing as for how hard he goes about it.  For example, Keim made the case that they considered Jimmy G but the surgery killed that interest but at the same time it wasn't Plan A.  Keim goes they checked in on Wentz around the same period but was told early on he's not on the trade market.

 

Keim didn't think they preferred Trubisky over Wentz based on the impression he got asking around including people telling him Trusbiky isn't much better than Heinicke.   But Sheehan tried to push the narrative that maybe Wentz was their least favorite option among those players.  And he goes well maybe the Colts told them no early but the Commanders were probably thinking the Colts didn't mean it and no meant yes. .    Then at one point Sheehan sarcastically goes to Keim if the Commanders know that Wentz has baggage? 

 

I am just throwing that out there considering as much as I like Sheehan, he doesn't per se have the midas touch at Qb as we've talked about here.   So all his negativity might be a good sign. 😀  He's as determined to kill Wentz as he was to push Darnold as the solution the previous year.  

 

But getting to the positive stuff.  Keim said this:

 

A. they think he's a major upgrade over Heinicke

 

B.  With Wentz, they can test all three levels of the defense

 

c.  They think that Wentz can help the quick game.  Heinicke apparently wasn't always quick twitch as for getting the ball out in the flat or for shallow crossers, etc -- Wentz they feel has better vision and a quicker release. 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Skinsinparadise