Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[Xameil]

8 hours ago, Larry said:

 

You could say that.  Although One Party, as a whole seems to be "the extremes", right now.  

Agree to disagree...

[Gurgeh]

8 hours ago, Fan since a Fetus said:

Maybe they’ve just gotten into the Halloween spirit? Tis the season.

 

 

First they were Nazis, then they were Satanists. Next thing you know they all support the Cowboys...

[The 12th Commandment]

1 hour ago, Gurgeh said:

 

First they were Nazis, then they were Satanists. Next thing you know they all support the Cowboys...

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

On 10/25/2022 at 9:33 PM, Xameil said:

Ok..whatever you say.

 

On 10/25/2022 at 9:33 PM, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

But… it isn’t what I say…. 

 

Obviously this isn't some major, earthshaking bit news but it sure is a good example of "I disagree with what is being said so I'll just assume it isn't true while providing no proof of it".  Where have we seen this attitude before?

[Xameil]

1 hour ago, The Almighty Buzz said:

 

 

Obviously this isn't some major, earthshaking bit news but it sure is a good example of "I disagree with what is being said so I'll just assume it isn't true while providing no proof of it".  Where have we seen this attitude before?

Not exactly sure what you mean. All Im saying is I'm a cynic that doesnt believe half of what comes out of ANY politicians mouth. I find 90% of them opportunistic and wont stand by their convictions.

 

Edit: ill even go 1 step further...Im not a fan of AOC, but she definitely stands by her beliefs no matter what the public opinion is.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Xameil

[CousinsCowgirl84]

2 hours ago, Xameil said:

Not exactly sure what you mean. All Im saying is I'm a cynic that doesnt believe half of what comes out of ANY politicians mouth. I find 90% of them opportunistic and wont stand by their convictions.

 

Edit: ill even go 1 step further...Im not a fan of AOC, but she definitely stands by her beliefs no matter what the public opinion is.

Who do you think was expressing the original outrage that led to the progressive democrats admonishing the person who went rogue and released the letter? 
 

What does AOC have to do with anything?

[TheGreatBuzz]

3 hours ago, Xameil said:

Not exactly sure what you mean. All Im saying is I'm a cynic that doesnt believe half of what comes out of ANY politicians mouth. I find 90% of them opportunistic and wont stand by their convictions.

 

Edit: ill even go 1 step further...Im not a fan of AOC, but she definitely stands by her beliefs no matter what the public opinion is.

 

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone more cynical than me.  But I still try to use things like facts and stuff.  Or caveat it with "I have no proof but......"

 

 

[Xameil]

2 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Who do you think was expressing the original outrage that led to the progressive democrats admonishing the person who went rogue and released the letter? 
 

What does AOC have to do with anything?

Just showing i have zero political slant to my opinion. And you still.dont get what Im saying. So never mind. I dont like talking to a wall.

39 minutes ago, The Almighty Buzz said:

 

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone more cynical than me.  But I still try to use things like facts and stuff.  Or caveat it with "I have no proof but......"

 

 

Obviously, Im more of a cynic. So, as I see it, its a fact they signed a document that said they were against the war. That is a fact. Now when their unpopular stance becomes public they express outrage.

 

I would have a different opinion of they owned their original opinion and stated after further thought i changed my mind instead of what I perceive as misdirected outrage.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

4 hours ago, Xameil said:

Just showing i have zero political slant to my opinion

I can’t be biased, I have a liberal friend….

[PeterMP]

13 hours ago, Xameil said:

Just showing i have zero political slant to my opinion. And you still.dont get what Im saying. So never mind. I dont like talking to a wall.

Obviously, Im more of a cynic. So, as I see it, its a fact they signed a document that said they were against the war. That is a fact. Now when their unpopular stance becomes public they express outrage.

 

I would have a different opinion of they owned their original opinion and stated after further thought i changed my mind instead of what I perceive as misdirected outrage.

 

So first, your "fact" isn't really a "fact".  The letter literally doesn't say they are against the war (on the other hand is anybody actually "pro-war").  It asked for a continual push for diplomacy while also supporting a free an independent Ukraine "that are acceptable for all parties, particularly Ukrainians."

 

https://progressives.house.gov/_cache/files/5/5/5523c5cc-4028-4c46-8ee1-b56c7101c764/B7B3674EFB12D933EA4A2B97C7405DD4.10-24-22-cpc-letter-for-diplomacy-on-russia-ukraine-conflict.pdf

 

This wasn't/isn't, Ukraine come to a deal or we are going stop giving you our weapons.  There was no call to limit what we are spending on Ukraine.  There was no talk about forcing the Ukrainians to accept a peace deal they didn't like.

 

This was a, let's get peace even if it doesn't result in any "punishment" for Russia (e.g. sanctions have to be lifted).

 

(Which I'm not personally a fan of.)

 

However, people have said pretty much what you said:

 

“Timing in diplomacy is everything,” Rep. Sara Jacobs (D-Calif.), one of the letter’s other signatories, tweeted Tuesday morning. “I signed this letter on June 30, but a lot has changed since then. I wouldn’t sign it today. We have to continue supporting Ukraine economically and militarily to give them the leverage they need to end this war.”

 

She signed in June.  She wasn't told it was going to be released now.  In the last few months as things changed, and she's changed her mind.  People are upset because a letter they signed months ago when things were different was released no without them being given any warning or knowledge that it was going to be released.  And now, they no longer support what it says.

 

Try getting beyond the headlines.

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by PeterMP

[China]

Russian Spies Have Gone Full Mafia Mode Because of Ukraine

 

Russian-backed crime gangs are expanding illegal operations such as smuggling heroin and millions of bootleg cigarettes to boost hard cash revenues in the wake of ongoing sanctions related to the war in Ukraine, senior intelligence and law enforcement officials have told VICE World News.

 

In early September, in a joint operation with Poland’s border service and other countries, Belgian customs and federal police broke up a Belarus-based smuggling ring which had pumped 57 million cigarettes and 48 tons of cut tobacco, with a total tax value of more than €32 million (around £28 million), into illegal factories in Belgium intended for sale across the EU.

 

While such illegal operations have been commonplace in the past, multiple NATO and European Union officials believe the massive operation was state-sanctioned by Belarusian and Russian intelligence as a way to replace operational incomes lost to Ukraine-related sanctions.

 

That operation followed a Lithuanian operation in late May where two fake cigarette factories run by Russian-linked organised crime groups believed to be working directly on behalf of Russia’s federal security service, the FSB, were raided in Lithuania. The factories were producing bootleg versions of popular brands for the UK market worth an estimated €73 million (around £63 million). 

 

“Tobacco is easy and low profile [to produce and smuggle] compared to illegal drugs and the risks are lower when caught,” said a Belgian Federal Police official, who is prohibited from speaking on the record to the media. “But what we have seen since the Ukraine-related sanctions is even more overt backing for these operations from government facilities in both Belarus and Russia. The mafia used to pay governments for protection, now it seems it's become a way to collect hard currency, to replace income lost to sanctions.”

 

Click on the link for the full article

[DogofWar1]

 

AH AHA HA HA

 

SO FUNNY

 

*pounds table in agonizing laughter*

 

*sobs*

[tshile]

On 10/25/2022 at 9:18 PM, Xameil said:

Or is it more of changed their mind because of the backlash. You know damn well if it was received favorably they would be standing behind it.

im with you. The only thing that’s changed is Ukraine launched a counter attack and it’s been successful. It’s otherwise still an awful war, with no end in sight, etc. 

 

and yeah people who refuse to believe most politicians will change their view for a 3-5% point boost in the poll, especially 2 weeks out from a midterm, are silly. 
 

honestly I’m more curious what was gained by the leak. Seems intentional with the mid  terms around the corner, but why… 🤷‍♂️ 

[TheGreatBuzz]

9 minutes ago, tshile said:

im with you. The only thing that’s changed is Ukraine launched a counter attack and it’s been successful. It’s otherwise still an awful war, with no end in sight, etc. 

 

and yeah people who refuse to believe most politicians will change their view for a 3-5% point boost in the poll, especially 2 weeks out from a midterm, are silly. 
 

honestly I’m more curious what was gained by the leak. Seems intentional with the mid  terms around the corner, but why… 🤷‍♂️ 

 

I can't remember the name of the lady that is reported to have leaked it but I believe she is one of, if not the most, furthest Left people in the party so that may be part of it.

[tshile]

3 hours ago, The Almighty Buzz said:

 

I can't remember the name of the lady that is reported to have leaked it but I believe she is one of, if not the most, furthest Left people in the party so that may be part of it.

Right but what does she have to gain by making normal democrats look bad?

 

I mean the extreme left is as bad as the extreme right in many ways (different ways) so I’m not against the idea of it just being typical crazy but seems odd to me that your sabotage your own… ah yeah makes total sense. 

[China]

Russia Says It’s Suspending Participation in Grain Deal With Ukraine

 

Russia on Saturday said that it was suspending its participation in an agreement to export grain and other agricultural products from Ukrainian ports, upending a deal that was intended to alleviate a global food crisis.

 

The announcement from Russia’s defense ministry came within hours after it accused Ukraine of launching an attack on ships from the Black Sea Fleet in Crimea that it said were participating in the grain initiative, which was organized around specific shipping lanes in the Black Sea.

 

Russia at first said that it had repulsed the attack by Ukrainian drones, but later backtracked and said at least one minesweeper had sustained damage.

 

Given the attack, the statement from the defense ministry said, “Russian suspends its participation in the implementation of the agreements on the export of agricultural products from Ukraine.”

 

The agreement, known as the Black Sea Grain Initiative, was signed in July and ended a five-month Russian blockade of Ukraine’s ports. Brokered with Russia and Ukraine by the United Nations and Turkey, the deal was set to expire on Nov. 19 and in recent weeks, its future had appeared uncertain.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[CousinsCowgirl84]

I assume that there hasn’t been a lot of damage to Russia naval fleet (outside of the one ship) and so they are in a position to restore the blockade?

[PokerPacker]

4 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

I assume that there hasn’t been a lot of damage to Russia naval fleet (outside of the one ship) and so they are in a position to restore the blockade?

Hasn't their fleet been hiding behind Crimea?

[TheGreatBuzz]

I wish we would use our fleet to soften up their fleet.  With our technology and the state of their military,  they probably wouldn't even know who it was or even that it was done by an aggressor and not and accident. 

[Gurgeh]

11 minutes ago, PokerPacker said:

Hasn't their fleet been hiding behind Crimea?

 

It has. The Black Sea fleet hasn't gone anywhere near Odesa or the coastline held by Ukraine in a while. Given that they are apparently vulnerable in their home port of Sevastapol, it seems unlikely they'd risk getting any closer, unless of course Putin decides otherwise.

 

Suspending the grain deal is just a cynical way of renegotating it so that Russia gets to export more grain and fertiliser for more currency.

[China]

 

[Riggo-toni]

Russia launches swarms of drones at civilian targets trying to freeze the population and kill as many people as possible. Ukraine launches drones at warships sending cruise missiles into Ukraine, and it's a terrorist attack....

[China]

Liz Truss's phone hacked by Putin's spies in search for 'embarrassing' secret information

 

Former Prime Minister Liz Truss's phone was reportedly hacked by Vladimir Putin's agents. The breach, revealed by the Mail on Sunday, is said to have included about a year's worth of messages.

 

The hack was discovered during the Tory leadership campaign when Ms Truss was Foreign Secretary. Former Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Cabinet Secretary Simon Case reportedly wanted to keep the hack under wraps.

 

Private messages between the former Prime Minister and her close friend and political ally Kwasi Kwarteng are believed to have been lifted by Putin's agents.

 

Messages critical of then-Prime Minister Boris Johnson are also said to have been stolen. There is thought to be concern that Ms Truss and Mr Kwarteng could be subject to potential blackmail due to the critical nature of the messages.

 

Alarmingly, sensitive talks with foreign ministers about the war in Ukraine are said to have fallen into the Kremlin's hands, including details about arms shipments.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[China]

Explosions over Kyiv as Russia attacks Ukraine infrastructure

 

Here's a round-up of the latest developments in the Ukraine war:

• Ukraine says Russia launched a wave of missile attacks across the country including over the capital, Kyiv, where two explosions were heard
• Ukrainian air defences managed to shoot down 44 out of the 50 cruise missiles, according to the Ukrainian Air Force
• Eighty percent of Kyiv has been left without water supply after Russian missiles damaged critical infrastructure this morning, the region's mayor Vitaliy Klitschko said
• Much of the city has been plunged into darkness as streetlights have been turned off
• Missiles also hit locations in Kharkiv, Vinnytsia, Dnipropetrovsk, Zaporizhzhia and Lviv
• At least 13 people were injured in the attacks, Ukraine's national police chief Ihor Klymenko said
• A Russian missile shot down by Ukrainian air defence fell on a village in northern Moldova near its border with Ukraine, according to the Moldovan government
• Ukraine said 12 cargo ships carrying key grain exports had left ports in the country under the UN grain deal on Monday
• It comes after Russia suspended participation in the deal for an "indefinite term" on Saturday after what it said was a major Ukrainian drone attack on its Black Sea fleet in Crimea

[China]

Iran is preparing to send additional weapons including ballistic missiles to Russia to use in Ukraine, western officials say

 

Iran is preparing to send approximately 1,000 additional weapons, including surface-to-surface short range ballistic missiles and more attack drones, to Russia to use in its war against Ukraine, officials from a western country that closely monitors Iran’s weapons program told CNN.

 

The shipment is being closely monitored because it would be the first instance of Iran sending advanced precision guided missiles to Russia, which could give the Kremlin a substantial boost on the battlefield.

 

The last shipment of weapons from Iran to Russia included about 450 drones, officials said, which the Russians have already used to deadly effect in Ukraine. Ukrainian officials said last week that they have shot down more than 300 Iranian drones.

 

This new expected shipment would mark a significant increase in Iranian support to Russia’s war effort. While the precise timing of when the shipment will arrive in Russia is unclear, officials believe the weapons will definitely be delivered before the end of the year.

 

Click on the link for the full article