The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randal 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariota and Fromm battle for QB2 and so begins the Handsome Harem for Hartman

[Koolblue13]

We have the OC nobody believes in, the vet QB nobody thinks should start, the rookie that was drafted too late, the HC that should have retired, worst stadium everyone hates us and thinks we suck. Yay.

 

If it's Bezos or H&R that buy us and we look good this year, the NFL and everyone will flip their tune right over. We'll start getting the right calls on game days, our schedule won't be stacked against us and a new stadium will come really fast.

[DJHJR86]

10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We have the OC nobody believes in, the vet QB nobody thinks should start, the rookie that was drafted too late, the HC that should have retired, worst stadium

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Chris 44]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I like Standig but listening to him just now on Sheehan’s show,  he is so over the top negative about the QB situation. 
 

Apparently, Kyle Trask is more intriguing this season because he was taken in the 2nd round versus Howell in the 5th. Atlanta’s situation at least as good because Ridder was taken earlier,

 

If Howell plays well in spite of this apparent stigma with some of him being drafted in the 5th round it will be a miracle 😀

So I guess we need to trade up to get a first round QB this year because......well because 1st is better than a second round QB and most definitely better than a 5th rounder. Its in the math.

[zCommander]

MOVING DOWN

Sam Howell's job security: It always was a little odd to assume Howell, a fifth-round pick from a year ago, was locked in as the Washington Commanders' starter. That said, a Howell fan might also look at Washington's signing of Jacoby Brissett on Wednesday as a good thing: Some veteran quarterback was going to arrive, and at least it's not Lamar Jackson.

 

Coach Ron Rivera started the offseason saying Howell was the team's No. 1; however, Rivera also recently said that if a veteran beat out Howell, "so be it." There's little reason to think Howell could win a true competition against Brissett, who is coming off his best season. Rivera likely needs to win this year to keep his job, and the Commanders have an enticing group of skill position players, with Terry McLaurin, Jahan Dotson, Curtis Samuel, Brian Robinson and Antonio Gibson. I'm intrigued by Howell's talent after a flashy Week 18 start, but Brissett will likely claim the top job if it's a fair fight.

 

From NFL.com.

[Skinsinparadise]

Wrong thread 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Chris 44 said:

So I guess we need to trade up to get a first round QB this year because......well because 1st is better than a second round QB and most definitely better than a 5th rounder. Its in the math.

I think we got a taste of what Sam Howell can do against the starting D of the Cowboys which was no slouch when he played against them.  Sam will do just fine under the tutelage of EB and Brissett is the perfect backup for mentoring and backing up Sam. 

[Chris 44]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Wrong thread 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rookie

[Jumbo]

I could start a separate thread called "Quarterbacking for Dummies" and restrict certain posters to it I guess.

 

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I like Standig but listening to him just now on Sheehan’s show,  he is so over the top negative about the QB situation. 
 

Apparently, Kyle Trask is more intriguing this season because he was taken in the 2nd round versus Howell in the 5th. Atlanta’s situation at least as good because Ridder was taken earlier,

 

If Howell plays well in spite of this apparent stigma with some of him being drafted in the 5th round it will be a miracle 

 

 

Some people that get paid for their football takes absolutely shouldn’t be.

[redskinss]

14 hours ago, No Nonsense said:

Wait a minute. I was going to let it go, but I thought I'd ask. Do some of you really think there's only one or two QB's in the NFL that would command at least two 1st? 

I think the bottom third would be less than two firsts the middle third would be at least two firsts and more as you get to the top third and the top ten are mostly unattainable at any cost.

Edited March 17, 2023 by redskinss

[Chris 44]

40 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

I could start a separate thread called "Quarterbacking for Dummies" and restrict certain posters to it I guess.

 

Thought this was a Riddle at first, then I figured your not Joking.

[DJHJR86]

 

 

 

The whole, "this QB was taken in the 5th round is enough evidence that he's no good" talk is starting to get tiresome.

 

I would take Brock Purdy (7th), Gardner Minshew (6th), Mike White (5th) over Zach Wilson (1st), Trey Lance (1st), Drew Lock (2nd), Will Grier (3rd), Baker Mayfield (1st), Sam Darnold (1st), Josh Rosen (1st)...you get the picture.  The "most late round quarterbacks don't develop into franchise qbs" can also be argued that most 1st rounders don't either.  It's a gamble.  Dak Prescott was 5 selections away from being a 5th rounder.  

[seantaylor=god]

Just now, DJHJR86 said:

 

 

 

The whole, "this QB was taken in the 5th round is enough evidence that he's no good" talk is starting to get tiresome.

 

I would take Brock Purdy (7th), Gardner Minshew (6th), Mike White (5th) over Zach Wilson (1st), Trey Lance (1st), Drew Lock (2nd), Will Grier (3rd), Baker Mayfield (1st), Sam Darnold (1st), Josh Rosen (1st)...you get the picture.  The "most late round quarterbacks don't develop into franchise qbs" can also be argued that most 1st rounders don't either.  It's a gamble.  Dak Prescott was 5 selections away from being a 5th rounder.  

Yeah, Howell may fail but it’s not going to be because he was a 5th rounder. There are some limitations to him (like all prospects) that made him drop, but it doesn’t mean he can’t be successful.

 

I wonder how much of the failure rate of QBs is the impatience to develop them. Obviously a later round pick doesn’t get the amount of chances as a high pick. 
 

 

 

[DJHJR86]

1 minute ago, seantaylor=god said:

I wonder how much of the failure rate of QBs is the impatience to develop them. Obviously a later round pick doesn’t get the amount of chances as a high pick. 

 

I also wonder if Howell falling into their laps in the 5th was more because they had Wentz and his massive salary already on the roster come draft time.  They could have had him rated much higher and taken him earlier.  He kind of alluded to that in the past after the draft:

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I’ll tell you what all the local media personalities and some of our fans that keep whining and pooping on our QB room have in common:

 

They’ve got no realistic solutions.

 

The same guys baffled that we are not in the market for Lamar are the same guys reporting on Dan’s financial woes, or are the same fans who will whine that we don’t have first round picks and can’t afford to sign free agents and keep our own players.

 

I honestly cannot think of a realistic scenario better than the one we’ve got going into next season, all things considered.  Providing Howell with EB as OC and Brissett as a mentor to see what he has.  A potential lame duck in Ron not giving up future assets for a QB the next regime may not want.

 

If Howell isn’t the goods, so what?  We’ve got much bigger fish to fry and there’s going to be a new chef.

Edited March 17, 2023 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[dc1]

1 hour ago, Jumbo said:

I could start a separate thread called "Quarterbacking for Dummies" and restrict certain posters to it I guess.

 

Let's get it!

[Chris 44]

18 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

Yeah, Howell may fail but it’s not going to be because he was a 5th rounder. There are some limitations to him (like all prospects) that made him drop, but it doesn’t mean he can’t be successful.

 

I wonder how much of the failure rate of QBs is the impatience to develop them. Obviously a later round pick doesn’t get the amount of chances as a high pick. 
 

 

 

Would love to see where he would be picked if last years draft was redone today. Second round at the worst. 

[FootballZombie]

30 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

I wonder how much of the failure rate of QBs is the impatience to develop them. Obviously a later round pick doesn’t get the amount of chances as a high pick. 

 

Its the nature of the beast. The system is rigged against the low asset guy.

 

High asset players (draft or money) are gifted opportunities to contribute to justify their cost. Futhermore their high investment gives them more leash once they are there. Beyond that they are repeatedly handed multiple opportunities on the strength of the fact that they were once high asset, so even if they fail in the first place many still see chance 2 or 3 or 4.

 

Low asset guys are not even guaranteed to get a shot in the first place, have shorter leashes once in and are easier to replace as there is little to no sunk cost and they take practically no cap. Its rough.

 

If a low asset guy is not amazing outta the box, you can move on right away. If a 1st round QB sucks year one, they can still see years beyond that, and are probably expected to.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

12 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Completely re-package someone else's idea as an original thought in a public forum? Let me guess... you're a wildly successful, fast-riser in management in Corporate America? 😉

 

 

I mean I resemble that remark….. (maybe not WILDLY successful)

 

(though honestly I mis-read your post.) 

11 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

These numbers seem pretty low. Did you see that tweet where TH said he told ATL I am going back to the DC and they said wait we will give you more? The number had to be higher for ATL to give him 7.5. I would think our offer was close to 7 then. 

 

I yeah, but don’t discount the negotiating agent.  From what Keim has alluded to, they were in the 4-5 range.  A good agent can leverage that.

 

I also think duration was a thing.  I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we were offering 1 year and Atlanta offered 2, which also helped.  
 

Regardless, I think Ron wanted short and super cheap for Taylor, or a little more and short for a better player.  

[mistertim]

49 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

 

 

The whole, "this QB was taken in the 5th round is enough evidence that he's no good" talk is starting to get tiresome.

 

I would take Brock Purdy (7th), Gardner Minshew (6th), Mike White (5th) over Zach Wilson (1st), Trey Lance (1st), Drew Lock (2nd), Will Grier (3rd), Baker Mayfield (1st), Sam Darnold (1st), Josh Rosen (1st)...you get the picture.  The "most late round quarterbacks don't develop into franchise qbs" can also be argued that most 1st rounders don't either.  It's a gamble.  Dak Prescott was 5 selections away from being a 5th rounder.  

 

What he's saying is factually correct. QBs taken outside of the 1st round have an abysmal success rate. I did some math quite a while back (though using a nebulous term like "successful") and for 1at round QBs the success rate was something like 40% whereas in the later rounds it was closer to 5%

 

That being said, this is also a bit of a different situation. Usually guys who go in the mid or late rounds have been projected that way for a while. Howell is a very rare case where a QB who had been talked about as a potential top 5 pick the year before suddenly fell far, but not for any discernible reason outside of his numbers going down a bit from the year before.

 

Though in this case that was because he literally lost every weapon around him and had to carry the entire offense by himself.

[Llevron]

13 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

What he's saying is factually correct. QBs taken outside of the 1st round have an abysmal success rate. I did some math quite a while back (though using a nebulous term like "successful") and for 1at round QBs the success rate was something like 40% whereas in the later rounds it was closer to 5%

 

That being said, this is also a bit of a different situation. Usually guys who go in the mid or late rounds have been projected that way for a while. Howell is a very rare case where a QB who had been talked about as a potential top 5 pick the year before suddenly fell far, but not for any discernible reason outside of his numbers going down a bit from the year before.

 

Though in this case that was because he literally lost every weapon around him and had to carry the entire offense by himself.

Normally a guy in his position doesn’t go back to school for that last year. They take the money/ draft position and run. That way there is no fall off. He did exactly what his agent would recommend against and that hurt him just like they knew it could. 
 

He is, technically, a 5th round pick. But that is obviously not the full story on him. He is in a hell of a position to surprise folks. I hope he does! 

Edited March 17, 2023 by Llevron

[DJHJR86]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Though in this case that was because he literally lost every weapon around him and had to carry the entire offense by himself.

 

In 2019 he had 39 total touchdowns.  In 2020 he had 35.  In 2021 he had 35.  He jumped in rushing touchdowns in his last year because as you said, he was carrying the offense.  The "he was playing inconsistent" never made any sense to me.  Corral was consistently rated higher than Howell going into the draft but when he played in the preseason against Washington's 3rd stringers, he looked completely lost.  Howell never did.

[SoCalSkins]

29 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

What he's saying is factually correct. QBs taken outside of the 1st round have an abysmal success rate. I did some math quite a while back (though using a nebulous term like "successful") and for 1at round QBs the success rate was something like 40% whereas in the later rounds it was closer to 5%

 

That being said, this is also a bit of a different situation. Usually guys who go in the mid or late rounds have been projected that way for a while. Howell is a very rare case where a QB who had been talked about as a potential top 5 pick the year before suddenly fell far, but not for any discernible reason outside of his numbers going down a bit from the year before.

 

Though in this case that was because he literally lost every weapon around him and had to carry the entire offense by himself.

We have not successfully drafted a first round franchise QB since Sammy Baugh. Our hit rate is abysmal in every round but even more so in the first! 

[KDawg]

Oh we’re in the point of the off-season cycle where we rehash Howell’s draft position. Nice.