The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[zCommander]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

 

Coaches absolutely will throw their weight behind a QB if they truly believe in them. I have no idea why you guys seem to find that odd to say. If they truly believed Heinicke would or could be the guy they'd have said it or at least something along those lines.

 

But instead they been almost completely mum on him unless they're asked a very direct question about TH's role in the upcoming season, in which case they've fallen back on coach-speak about how he's a hard worker and yadda yadda, but won't even actually say that he could be the starter next season.

 

If they truly believe he had a chance to be their guy, they would have said something. Or at the very very least they would have said TH would absolutely be part of competition for the starting job. But nope.

 

As far as putting all the cards on the table and figuring out what will work best for the team, all the reporting so far has said they plan to go hard on an upgrade at the position this offseason and Ron has implied that as well.

 

My point is pretty clear. Ron doesn't have to say anything on his own. Is he saying anything about any of the other players? Nope. This is the time for evaluations. Is Ron going to figure out the QB situation. Sure. But you are trying to exclude Taylor. All I am saying is he is part of those cards. Now which card Ron slides up is only known to him. That's it. Nothing really to stress about. 

 

I just found this and this is from the 7th of Jan. (sure looks like Ron is putting all the cards on the table):

 

"We had a very good meeting earlier, and one of the things that we talked about again was the four options we have on the roster, and free agency, and the draft, and potential trades," Rivera said. "You've got to look at all avenues, and then you've got to kind of predict and look at which ones intrigue you and then go from there."

 

Currently on the roster are Taylor Heinicke, Kyle Allen, Garrett Gilbert, and Ryan Fitzpatrick. 

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by zskins

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It’s not about being ‘fine’ with what we had late in the year but it absolutely could have been better.  It didn’t need to be much better to make the playoffs.  But that’s kind of besides the point.  Even if we win 2 more games with Heineke and made the playoffs, I’d still be uninterested in him as a potential starter next season.

 

Nobody is trying to take the 7 wins from him.  I just think that’s at or near the ceiling for a guy with his skill level.  I know, I know, but McKissick, but Thomas, etc. but imo we were fortunate to win the games we won even at full health.  I simply do not believe that style of play is going to be a sustainable winning formula.  

 

I said no team would be interested in trading for him.  Not that he has no place in the league.  At best, he garners what Minshew fetched - a conditional sixth.  I’m sure if we released him for whatever reason, he’d get a chance to compete for a backup spot elsewhere.  My primary point is that he’s more valuable to us than he would be anyone else.  His value is being familiar with Scott’s system and able to run it in a moments notice.  That’s more valuable than what we could potentially net in return for him.

Somewhat ironically, our 2 wins at full health were the shootouts vs NYG/ATL.  You could be right though - maybe he lucked into the wins.  And maybe with better roster health/depth, a better supporting cast, a defense that didn’t start slow, and an easier schedule he still couldn’t win any more games.  Seems a stretch logically, but it’s definitely possible (we had a lot of close wins after all).  

 

But anyway, my comments weren’t directed at you specifically (others have pointed out he was horrible, implying our supporting cast is excellent), and I don’t blame you for having a low trade value for him (or for not wanting him as the starter next year)… I don’t disagree actually.             

 

@mistertimthat’s probably a good idea, I’ve been trying to avoid the discussion, but I finally got sucked in… 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by skinny21

[mistertim]

Meh, I'm going to follow Jumbo's post and just stop talking about our backup QB and keep my mind on the future.

[FootballZombie]

33 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

ok...i let it go on for a long time just to observe but it's done now...though we have other hijinks underway, too

 

Hobbies are a great way to deal w/ boredom. Or picking up a Netflix subscription

 

 

53 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Only way I could think this is ok is if they already have a deal in place for someone if not he should be down there.

 

I kinda feel like we are predetermining not having a bunch-o draft picks. Even if a deal is not in place

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by FootballZombie

[88Comrade2000]

5 hours ago, Theismann to HOF said:

 

That doesn't address my comment.  My point is that Stafford and Cousins would not have won the game against the Bucs if either one of them were the starting QB for the WFT this season.

 

Neither one of them have the capability to carry an inferior team like the WFT to victory against a vastly superior team like Tampa Bay.

 

Did you watch that game??  Heinicke was simply outstanding.  He literally played a near-perfect game.  That 10 1/2 minute drive in the 4th quarter won the game for the WFT, by keeping the ball out of Tom Brady's hands.  That was the best drive of the ENTIRE NFL SEASON.  Heinicke had two clutch 3rd down completions to Humphries and McLaurin on that drive and that is what won the game.

 

Heinicke put the WFT on his shoulders and carried the team to victory in 4 very close games this season -- against the Giants, Falcons, Bucs, and Panthers.  He was excellent in all 4 of those games.  Most starting QBs in this league would have lost all 4 of those games if they had been starting for the WFT.  

 

Yes, there are GMs in this league that took notice of Heinicke, especially after the victory against Tampa Bay.  If the WFT is stupid enough to pick a different starting QB, he will be starting somewhere else.  Heinicke is a top 15 QB in this league.

 

You are way too hung up on stats.  A QB has to throw a TD pass and have 300 yards passing in order to play a great game?  That is totally ridiculous.  

 

Wow...maybe you need to re-watch Heinicke's great performances against Tampa Bay and Carolina.  The dude can flat-out play.  He is one of the top 15 QBs in this league.

Heini is more likely to be spending more time on his sister’s couch than being in the nfl.

Ron has 3gms; so they can attend the senior bowl for him.

[Koolblue13]

[London Kev]

<Edit> Just seen Jumbo's post.

Edited January 19, 2022 by London Kev

[FootballZombie]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

 

Pittsburgh has the right idea. QB injuries are meaningless if you just send out a clone to replace the hurt guy. It also provides amazing leverage in contract negotiations. No fear of letting a guy walk.

[cakmoney61]

My personal favorites:

Big Ben is in the Injured category three times.😆

And Carson Wentz is his own category.🤣

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I think my favorite option in the draft is Sam Howell. He seems to check a lot of the boxes of successful NFL QBs. Size, athleticism, good technique.

 

He's also a guy that was circled by many as a likely QB1 and Top 3 pick by a lot of analysts early in his career, which draws a lot of parallels for me to Justin Herbert. Lot of people thought Herbert would be QB1 if he came out in 2019, had a down year, and ended up going #6 (granted, still pretty damn high) but QB3 in the 2020 class.

 

He might end up being the first QB off the board, but if we make a move up and take him, I would feel pretty optimistic.

 

Davis Mills was another pedigree guy. Lot of people thought he was a QB1 early on at Stanford then had injury struggles and some poor statistical years. I had him as a guy I wanted to target in the 3rd last year to be an upside flier guy, and looks like the Texans may have found their future QB with a 3rd round pick.

 

Guys with early success and pedigree and "down" statistical years before coming out tend to still perform really well in the NFL.

Edited January 19, 2022 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Chump Bailey]

10 hours ago, zskins said:

 

 

 

I'm familiar with Lock my man

 

But, he's certainly squarely in the category of another reclamation project and retread in the same league as the other QB's mentioned in the OP hence my ribbing, lol. Maybe a change would serve him well but right now his body of work is not very good.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[KDawg]

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Pittsburgh move up in the draft and target Malik Willis. Tomlin mentioned that he covets mobility in a QB the other day, Willis is that. He is actually a perfect fit for the Pittsburgh “way”. A team that likes to pin their identity on their running game and defense but still move the ball through the air when needed. 
 

Willis would get plenty of time to develop there as well and he has a cast surrounding him that makes sense. Workhorse back, receiving talent… they need to get the OL sorted but Willis’ mobility helps there and a mediocre OL buys Willis more time to develop. 
 

Pitt isn't known for moving up in the draft or trading future draft choices, but I think this is the chance. If I were a Steeler fan he’d be among my favorite prospects.

 

But I’m not. And Howell is still my top guy.

Edited January 19, 2022 by KDawg

[JamesMadisonSkins]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Pitt isn't known for moving up in the draft or trading future draft choices, but I think this is the chance. If I were a Steeler fan he’d be among my favorite prospects.

 

But I’m not. And Howell is still my top guy.

 

I could definitely see them get aggressive. They did move up for Devin Bush several years ago, but that isn't exactly a good case to hang your hat on for them to do it again.

[HigSkin]

A lot of information but worth the read about Watson.  Hard to see how any team would take him on but I guess we'll see.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33093544/will-houston-texans-trade-qb-deshaun-watson-complicated

 

Will the Houston Texans still trade quarterback Deshaun Watson? It's complicated

 

HOUSTON -- On Jan. 28, 2021, it was made public knowledge that Houston Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson had requested a trade.

A lot has changed with the situation in the past year.

On March 16, 2021, the first of 23 civil lawsuits alleging sexual assault and inappropriate behavior by Watson was filed. Twenty-two of the lawsuits are ongoing as Watson and his legal team have denied wrongdoing.

Ten women -- eight of whom filed civil lawsuits -- have filed complaints with the Houston Police Department. Depositions have begun, but Watson cannot be deposed before Feb. 22. Tony Buzbee, the lawyer for the plaintiffs, told FOX 26 this week that he plans to take Watson's deposition starting Feb. 24.

 

And from a team perspective, after firing David Culley last week, the Texans are searching for their second coach since the quarterback voiced his displeasure.

In his end of season news conference, Texans general manager Nick Caserio said he doesn't "think there's any more clarity today [on Watson's legal situation] than there was here previously."

"But we're going to work through it," Caserio said. "Ultimately, we're going to do what we feel is best for the organization."

Where does Watson's trade request stand and is there a possibility he plays for the Texans again? Now that the offseason is here for Houston, let's take a look.

How did Watson and the Texans get here?

It started a little more than a year ago, when Watson made it known he was unhappy with the Texans' process in hiring Caserio. According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, Watson offered input, but the organization did not consider the GM candidates he had endorsed.

At the end of the 2020 season, Watson said he thought the organization needed "a whole culture shift." Caserio spent 20 seasons in New England. Former coach and general manager Bill O'Brien was with the Patriots for five years.

After finding out about Caserio's hire on Twitter, Schefter reported that Watson requested a trade. A trade, of course, was complicated by the fact Watson had signed a four-year, $156 million contract less than six months before. Caserio and Culley made it clear they had no intention of trading Watson.

 

But the conversation around Watson shifted in mid-March, when the first of 23 lawsuits was filed. Watson's lawyer, Rusty Hardin, released a statement denying Watson had committed a crime.

"Any allegation that Deshaun forced a woman to commit a sexual act is completely false," Hardin said.

Hardin later said any alleged sexual encounters between Watson and any of the plaintiffs was consensual.

The NFL opened an investigation into the lawsuits and the Texans said in a statement they would stay in close contact with the NFL during that investigation.

Watson wasn't traded before the NFL Draft and did not show up for the Texans' voluntary organized team activities in the spring. Because Culley canceled mandatory minicamp in June, Watson was not fined.

As the spring and summer went on, Caserio's stance went from, "We have zero interest in trading the player," to saying the Texans would do what is best for the organization.

Watson reported to training camp in July to avoid the daily $50,000 fine that would be levied if he refused. Watson took part in some training camp practices, but only in individual reps and not team drills. Trade talks continued during training camp with Caserio reportedly looking for a package of six players and draft picks in exchange for the quarterback.

Watson was not suspended by the NFL or the Texans and spent the entire season on the Texans' active roster. He was paid his $10.5 million base salary not to play for Houston.

The Texans and Miami Dolphins were in trade talks before the deadline, but talks ultimately stalled, in part because of Watson's unresolved legal issues.

What has changed since a deal didn't get done at the trade deadline?

Other than Watson's legal situation, from a football perspective, it became more difficult for a team to trade for a quarterback once the season started. It's one thing to add a quarterback in the offseason when he has time to learn your offense and you can plan around him. It's another to do it in early November.

It was also unclear to any team trading for Watson whether NFL commissioner Roger Goodell would decide to put him on the exempt list if he tried to play.

The other difference from the Texans' perspective is that now draft positions are set. It's a lot more of a certainty to trade for say, the No. 5 or No. 6 pick in 2022 rather than risk trading Watson midseason and that dramatically affecting the pick. For an example of how drastic that difference is -- even though the Dolphins don't own their 2022 first-round pick -- had the Texans traded Watson to the Dolphins in early November, before the trade deadline, Miami was 1-7 and in line for a top pick. Even without trading for Watson, the Dolphins won eight out of their last nine games and finished with the 15th pick. Miami traded the pick to the Philadelphia Eagles before the 2021 draft.

Watson's salary has also changed. In 2021, Watson was playing on the last year of his rookie deal, where he had a base salary of $10.5 million. In 2022, that jumps to $35 million, and in March, his $20 million 2023 salary and $17 million 2023 roster bonus become fully guaranteed.

Although the Texans kept Watson on their roster last season, it becomes cost-prohibitive to do it again in 2022. Houston already has $35.4 million in dead money. If Watson stays on the active roster again in 2022, that will effectively be $74.4 million in dead money. Watson currently accounts for 27.58% of Houston's 2022 projected cap.

Could the Texans change Watson's mind with their head coach hire?

One reason this question has come up is because of Watson's desire to be traded to the Dolphins. Miami fired coach Brian Flores, who Watson wanted to play for and the Texans interviewed last week.

Never say never, but sources say the Texans don't expect any coach hire to change Watson's mind. The quarterback's unhappiness with the organization came before Culley was hired and has to do with ownership and the front office, not the coaching staff.

Caserio also addressed the matter head on when he appeared on Sports Radio 610. When asked if the potential hiring of Flores could result in Watson staying, he replied "that more than likely would not be the case."

When can a trade happen?

The Texans could agree to a trade for Watson at any point, but it cannot be made official until 4 p.m. ET on March 16, the start of the new league year.

Watson had previously agreed to waive his no-trade clause for the Dolphins, but he could be forced to be open to other teams this offseason to get a deal done.

Where does Watson's legal situation stand?

The civil cases are still going through the discovery process, but they could be settled if both sides agree to do so. If the lawsuits are not settled, a pre-trial conference is scheduled for early May, according to court documents.

 

Whether Watson will face criminal charges remains to be seen. Last month, search warrants showed Watson was being investigated for indecent assault, a misdemeanor charge in Texas.

 

Hardin said he does not expect Watson to speak to the NFL's investigators until after the criminal investigation is over. Watson was not suspended or put on the commissioner's exempt list, and the NFL may not make a decision on whether to suspend Watson until his legal situation -- including the criminal investigation -- is resolved.

[HigSkin]

And then there's this from therapists defending him....

 

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by HigSkin

[Est.1974]

Would be pretty wild if the Bears chose to move on from Fields. 

 

 

[zCommander]

I think the Texans are high or they know the charges will be dismissed. 

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

5 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

And then there's this from therapists defending him....

 

 

It would appear Watson knows his fair share of massage therapists. I don’t think I know that many people in general  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

9 hours ago, zskins said:

My point is pretty clear. Ron doesn't have to say anything on his own. Is he saying anything about any of the other players? Nope. This is the time for evaluations. Is Ron going to figure out the QB situation. Sure. But you are trying to exclude Taylor. All I am saying is he is part of those cards. Now which card Ron slides up is only known to him. That's it. Nothing really to stress about. 

 

The most recent Ron quote pertaining to our QB situation:

 

Quote

Asked Tuesday if Washington might need to find a quarterback this offseason, head coach Ron Rivera laughed and said, "That's an understatement."

That's one hell of a smokescreen by Ron if he is seriously considering Taylor for anything but clipboard holder.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

What's so interesting to me about the Watson scenario is we are 1 year into this and literally nothing has changed. I can't imagine he goes into next season as a Texan, but I am also not really sure what can happen between now and the draft to expedite the situation so that a team would be comfortable enough to trade for him. Post-draft, the number of teams in play for him likely diminishes significantly ... which won't help his trade value. Such a bizarre situation and I feel like this should have been ironed out long ago, yet we are still in the same position we sat a year ago.

[Koolblue13]

I wish all the Heinicke talk could stay in the Hive thread.

[Inigo Montoya]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I think my favorite option in the draft is Sam Howell. He seems to check a lot of the boxes of successful NFL QBs. Size, athleticism, good technique.

 

 

I think this is where I am too, started out with Corral as my favorite. I still think it’s 1a Howell 

1b Corral 

for me and I’d be excited about either. We need to be in position to draft one of these two guys. Man the draft is so far away

[Redskins 2021]

Ron not going to the senior bowl I think this is a tell we are going after a vet. I think it will be a vet of Stafford level. If they can't get one of big three.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[zCommander]

8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

The most recent Ron quote pertaining to our QB situation:

 

That's one hell of a smokescreen by Ron if he is seriously considering Taylor for anything but clipboard holder.

 

Ron also said all cards on the table as well. That was more recent quote then your quote (which I already knew about).