The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Conn]

48 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Considering it's his first time as a GM, I give the guy a pass.  Maybe he analyzes his interview and learns from it too or someone says something to him.  

Or maybe acknowledging you’re looking at the QB’s everyone knows you are, when all you have on the roster is the shell-shocked 5th rounder who played poorly the year before, is totally fine and expected.

[Skinsinparadise]

Wouldn't shock me

 

 

 

[ThatNFLChick]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

 

Water is wet.  I know Russell isn't in love with the Qbs in the draft, he typically isn't.

 

But the all options is on the table is a cliche that just about every team publicly takes.

 

Very rare to hear something like look we delved deep on Howell, we think he stinks.  We will try to off load him but buyer beware, we are done with him.  And we decided what we are doing at #2, and we are ready to tell the world what that is now. 

 

 

 

Edited February 27 by Skinsinparadise

[Rufus T Firefly]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Water is wet.  I know Russell isn't in love with the Qbs in the draft, he typically isn't.

 

But the all options is on the table is a cliche that just about every team publicly takes.

 

Very rare to hear something like look we delved deep on Howell, we think he stinks.  We will try to off load him but beware beware, we are done with him.  And we decided what we are doing at #2, and we are ready to tell the world what that is now. 

 

 

 

I mean, I guess the "news" on this is he's not out there publicly undercutting the trade value of players he is interested in moving, which is quite a shift from how Ron did things. 

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Wouldn't shock me

 

 

 

 

That wouldn't shock me either. I like Rattler. My biggest issue with him was that he seemed like an arrogant and entitled douche. But I've read that he's matured, and if that's true then I'd definitely take him over Penix. Not sure about Nix, but I think Rattler might have higher upside.

[Est.1974]

The QB debate got some mileage yet. Buckle up.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I mean, I guess the "news" on this is he's not out there publicly undercutting the trade value of players he is interested in moving, which is quite a shift from how Ron did things. 

 

Yep Bruce, too.  This team was one of the rare idiotic teams that would constantly devalue their assets publicly.  Bruce even did it with future Hall of Famer Trent -- instead of saying the dude is a stud, they are instead leaking that the dude hasn't played in some time and is he even the same player now and that he's a selfish player, etc.

 

 

[clskinsfan]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

That wouldn't shock me either. I like Rattler. My biggest issue with him was that he seemed like an arrogant and entitled douche. But I've read that he's matured, and if that's true then I'd definitely take him over Penix. Not sure about Nix, but I think Rattler might have higher upside.

He was crushed when he got benched for Caleb when Caleb was a true freshman. He definitely could have handled it better.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

He's a former NFL QB. Just like Kurt Warner, Chase Daniels, Colt McCoy, Tim Hasselbeck, David Carr and the others whose evals and opinions have been posted here about the top 3 QBs. Choose whose evals you value and whosee you don't!

No.  He's not just like Kurt Warner.  Kurt Warner is in the HOF.  

 

Kurt Benkert was on the practice squads of several teams and the entirety of his NFL playing career is 2 kneel downs.

 

There is NOTHING comparable about Kurt and Kurt.  Except they have the same first name.

 

I have no idea if he's any good at evaluating players.  He might be.  But to call him a former QB in the same class as Kurt Warner?  That's a joke.

 

Hell, even the other QBs on the list have at least a "been in the league a while and taken some snaps" to their resume.

 

My Guy Benkert has 2 kneel downs.  If I need to evaluate a QB's ability to kneel down, I'll call him.  Actually, I won't.  I'll call a doctor.

 

 

 

[CapsSkins]

50 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

My Guy Benkert has 2 kneel downs.  If I need to evaluate a QB's ability to kneel down, I'll call him.  Actually, I won't.  I'll call a doctor.

 

 

 

 

If I need to evaluate a QBs ability to kneel down twice, I will definitely call Kurt. Kurt Cousins, that is.

 

Edited February 27 by CapsSkins

[ThatNFLChick]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

No.  He's not just like Kurt Warner.  Kurt Warner is in the HOF.  

 

Kurt Benkert was on the practice squads of several teams and the entirety of his NFL playing career is 2 kneel downs.

 

There is NOTHING comparable about Kurt and Kurt.  Except they have the same first name.

 

I have no idea if he's any good at evaluating players.  He might be.  But to call him a former QB in the same class as Kurt Warner?  That's a joke.

 

Hell, even the other QBs on the list have at least a "been in the league a while and taken some snaps" to their resume.

 

My Guy Benkert has 2 kneel downs.  If I need to evaluate a QB's ability to kneel down, I'll call him.  Actually, I won't.  I'll call a doctor.

 

 

 

 

Wait, wasn't half this board just calling Kurt Warner, old, bitter and out of touch?

[Rolo Tomasie]

2 hours ago, NOLA2DC said:

Who is he?

The Mason Rudolph of draft commentators.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

WAIT!!!! That's MAD disrespect for Hallock!!!  He's already there!  And he's beaten Brady! And Wilson! And ... other good QBs who I won't look up now!  

 

Just give my guy a chance!!!  The best fit for your city is ALREADY IN YOUR CITY!!!!!  What are you doing Raheem?!?!?!  The answer is right there in front of you giving out Jordans!!!!! (Well, he would if he won games, which he ... DID ONCE!!!!)  

 

He's only got 1 year left on his deal! You need to LOCK HIM UP NOW! $30m/year for 10 years! FULLY GUARANTEED!!!!! It's the BEST MOVE YOU COULD EVER MAKE!

 

(This post brought to you by Dr. Sabah)

[mac8887]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

If McCarthy truly is "our guy" at the end of the day, we can certainly trade back 1 spot with NE if there's an offer on the table. We could probably go back as far as ATL but that's about it. From there, we absolutely risk Denver or Minnesota trading up ahead of us with the Chargers, or the Giants just straight out taking him at #6. We'd have to have a strong back-up plan (Rattler, Pratt, Penix) in R2 or R3 to supplement Howell if someone leaps us or McCarthy goes before we pick at 8.

 

In reality we simply won't risk it. But it does make for intriguing fodder. 

 

Maye or Daniels ... or McCarthy + 3rd + at least a 1st next year. I would angle hard for Pitts in that situation. Give me #8, Pitts, 3rd rounder and a 2025 1st. Atlanta could recoup a 2nd if the Jags extend Calvin Ridley, in which case I would ask for #8, 2nd (JAX), Pitts and a 2025 1st. If Pitts can't be had, then add a 2025 2nd and/or 2026 1st.

Fleece the Giants for 2 extra 1st rounders, it’s time for Peters to do to them, what Reid did to us. With their putrid o line, Maye wouldn’t stand a chance, his numbers are awful while under pressure, something like 49% to McCarthy at 65% while under pressure. You think they’d give up #6 and a first in 2025 and 2026 to move up to 2? That’d be a heck of a haul, and rumor is they covet Maye

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Fleece the Giants for 2 extra 1st rounders, it’s time for Peters to do to them, what Reid did to us. With their putrid o line, Maye wouldn’t stand a chance, his numbers are awful while under pressure, something like 49% to McCarthy at 65% while under pressure. You think they’d give up #6 and a first in 2025 and 2026 to move up to 2? That’d be a heck of a haul, and rumor is they covet Maye

 

What is your obsession with giving our 2nd overall pick to the Giants in order to take a 2nd tier QB while they get a 1st tier one?

[e16bball]

2 hours ago, mac8887 said:

For those who like the tight window over the middle throws, this highlight has plenty. His pocket awareness, and mobility look outstanding. He makes all the throws you can ask for, with zip when needed, and with touch when needed. He is amazing throwing on the move, almost Mahomes esk. He has “it”. This is one of the best Highlight videos I’ve ever seen. I am in the Caleb camp, thought I was in the Jayden camp, but after watching this guy just as much as the others recently, this is my guy if we can’t get Caleb

 

https://youtu.be/almlF6EPS88?si=UYL6XZsDwc4DVGTP

 

check this one out to, the disparity between JJ and Drake while under pressure is insane. JJ is lights out under pressure

This is an interesting video to me, because the stats he’s highlighting are the exact opposite of the stats that PFF suggests are “stable metrics” that traditionally translate most cleanly from college to the NFL. 
 

For example, he’s citing stats when under pressure. But PFF has always stated that their analysis suggests that “clean pocket” stats are what translate best to the NFL.

 

Same with the playaction stats — one of PFF’s stable metrics is actually passing on plays with no playaction, which they say translates better.

 

And not that he had any stats for it, but he did reference McCarthy’s ability to make throws when he’s rolled out. And once again, the PFF stable metrics actually include passing on straight dropbacks as the more translatable measure.
 

Just found that interesting, because of how starkly the two ways of prioritizing (and discarding) some of the different metrics contrast with one another. As you can imagine, using the opposite approach leads to the opposite outcome (PFF prefers Maye by a wide margin).
 

The one place where I absolutely do have to push back on what he says in this video, though, is in comparing what McCarthy did in his high-stakes games against what Maye did versus his toughest opponents. That is a deeply rigged comparison. No matter who McCarthy played over the last two seasons, he went into every game with a better roster around him than the opponent. Maye? His roster was badly outclassed by teams like Notre Dame, Clemson, Oregon, etc. They weren’t playing at the same difficulty level in their so-called “toughest games.”

Edited February 27 by e16bball

[Conn]

31 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

If McCarthy truly is "our guy" at the end of the day, we can certainly trade back 1 spot with NE if there's an offer on the table. We could probably go back as far as ATL but that's about it. From there, we absolutely risk Denver or Minnesota trading up ahead of us with the Chargers, or the Giants just straight out taking him at #6. We'd have to have a strong back-up plan (Rattler, Pratt, Penix) in R2 or R3 to supplement Howell if someone leaps us or McCarthy goes before we pick at 8.

 

In reality we simply won't risk it. But it does make for intriguing fodder. 

 

Maye or Daniels ... or McCarthy + 3rd + at least a 1st next year. I would angle hard for Pitts in that situation. Give me #8, Pitts, 3rd rounder and a 2025 1st. Atlanta could recoup a 2nd if the Jags extend Calvin Ridley, in which case I would ask for #8, 2nd (JAX), Pitts and a 2025 1st. If Pitts can't be had, then add a 2025 2nd and/or 2026 1st.

 

 

I keep posting this, but you cannot “certainly” trade back even a single spot and get your guy. If you’ve pinpointed that for your franchise, in this example McCarthy is your guy over Maye and Daniels? It’s arrogant to think that no one else would come to the same conclusion and take your guy. Especially if you’re talking about going down to the Falcons spot, just kiss him goodbye because someone will jump you. But even down to the 3 is dangerous in that case. I’ll repeat: it would be the height of arrogance to assume that your FO’s evaluation is unique. You have to take your guy at 2.

[mh86]

8 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

What is your obsession with giving our 2nd overall pick to the Giants in order to take a 2nd tier QB while they get a 1st tier one?

Pretty sure he was a Daniels guy, no? so I think this is his new way of bashing Maye, by saying pawn him off he’s a bust in the making. 

[Conn]

1 hour ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

This quote brings back Ron Rivera based PTSD. Sounds similar to what RR said about Howell.

It’s just honesty. You cannot expect to get a starting QB of any caliber in the 7th round. People said the same about Brady in the 6th…if anyone had a clue, he would’ve gone earlier. It’s the only thing you can say and not sound like a dumbass. You can’t pretend you knew because you obviously did not. 
 

Rivera said what he said after having Howell in the building for an entire offseason and season. That’s why it was so dumb, even taking into account that Howell isn’t a starting caliber QB at this time. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

9 minutes ago, Conn said:

 

 

I keep posting this, but you cannot “certainly” trade back even a single spot and get your guy. If you’ve pinpointed that for your franchise, in this example McCarthy is your guy over Maye and Daniels? It’s arrogant to think that no one else would come to the same conclusion and take your guy. Especially if you’re talking about going down to the Falcons spot, just kiss him goodbye because someone will jump you. But even down to the 3 is dangerous in that case. I’ll repeat: it would be the height of arrogance to assume that your FO’s evaluation is unique. You have to take your guy at 2.

 

Certainly* yes. Because you aren't swapping 2 and 3 without knowing the Pats move. And you're not agreeing to swap picks if they're going to take your guy.

 

Of course, there's some gamesmanship there too. For them to even want to swap picks they have to think you're willing to trade with Atlanta or New York or whoever. But I am sure there's a way to say, "we are interested in moving this pick, but we have a guy we are targeting in a trade down and want to make sure you're not going to take him ... who are you taking if we do this trade?"

 

Totally different if you move back to #8. You lose all control and have to be okay with a backup plan and let the chips fall as they may.

 

I would also argue you could safely go to #4 if the Cards want to come up for Harrison, Jr. You won't have the benefit of knowing who the Patriots will take. But if you've had the #2 and #3 swap discussion and know they want Maye, then you can comfortably trade with the Cards, cause the Pats are taking Maye, and you get McCarthy at #4.

Edited February 27 by JamesMadisonSkins

[mistertim]

15 minutes ago, mh86 said:

Pretty sure he was a Daniels guy, no? so I think this is his new way of bashing Maye, by saying pawn him off he’s a bust in the making. 

 

Yeah it's kinda hard to keep track of what he wants. IIRC he was big for Daniels, now he seems to be obsessed with McCarthy. Regardless, he seems to really dislike Maye either way. 

[ThatNFLChick]

So many QB rumors....I wonder how many deals are made on draft day

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Wait, wasn't half this board just calling Kurt Warner, old, bitter and out of touch?

Well, then that half the board are morons. 

[seantaylor=god]

Just now, ThatNFLChick said:

So many QB rumors....I wonder how many deals are made on draft day

 

 

I think Arizona is going to trade with the Giants.

 

The rumor is a lot of teams have MHJr and Malik Nabers as pretty equal (some have Nabers higher), so if Arizona is one of them they could help Giants take a QB.