The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[skinsfan66]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

The Bears traded the pick because they thought they had a guy in Fields. Not really the same situation. They aren't going to trade it this year because now they're sure he's not and there is a guy available who projects to be.

 

 

It was the right move for the Bears no big contract for fields and a QB on another rookie contract? Was not going to happen if they drafted instead last year and took the wrong QB. Carolina lost there MoJo and now have a hard road to climb. I get the point of QB at 2 but it is not the only way. Odds favor take the QB at 2nd pick. They have to believe he is there man.

[NOLA2DC]

50 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

NFL Beat Writers did a mock draft

1. Chicago - Caleb Williams

2. Washington - Drake Maye

3. Atlanta (trade with NE) - Jayden Daniels 

4. Cardinals - MHJ

5. Chargers - Nabers

6. Giants - Rome Odunze

7. Titans - Joe Alt

8. Patriots - Olu Fashanu (Fields is their QB)

9. Broncos (trade with CHI) - JJ McCarthy

10. Jets - Taliese Fuaga

I don't see the logic of NE going with Fields, I guess because keep seeing him linked to Pitt and Atlanta. Also, Daniels would represent a big shift NE's traditional offense (I know they have a new coach). 

[mac8887]

3 hours ago, alaroche04 said:

 

If Maye (or Caleb for that matter) was throwing to two top 20 receiver, one being a potential top 5 pick, he'd be winning the Heisman.

I'm not so sure about this, Jayden Daniels had one of the best seasons ever for a college qb, and had to, to win the heisman. Bo Nix and Micheal Penix also had great seasons and it took a 40 td 10 rush td to hust 4 ints to win the hiesman.

 

While Maye has the traits that has scouts drooling, it is known that he is risky with the ball sometimes, and can be inaccurate on some easy ones that causes little lulls in his offense moving the ball for sometimes 4 or 5 drives in a row, and his offense stagnates, this is one of the biggest harps I see people bringing up when they do film reviews on him

 

While maye can run pretty good, he doesn't do it enough or good enough to make that big of an impact when it comes to heisman consideration as well.

 

To say he would definitely win the heisman if he had daniels receivers is just a little bit to much, though it is possible he could have, but I'd say more unlikely than likely, especially with the year that Bo Nix and Penix had.

Edited February 22 by mac8887

[mac8887]

3 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

. Maye and Williams can both throw 50 yard balls and opposite hash deep outs on a rope. 

Misread

Edited February 22 by mac8887

[FrFan]

Why Kiper projects Jayden Daniels to go before Drake Maye in NFL mock draft

https://www.espn.co.uk/video/clip?id=39369228

Edited February 22 by FrFan

[clskinsfan]

6 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

I've heard of 5, 10, and even 15 yard outs, but a 50 yard out route is not a pass anyone has over thrown. Maye and williams have a huge arm, but this is just a little to exaggerated.

Where did I say 50 yard out? Read it again. 

[mac8887]

2 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Where did I say 50 yard out? Read it again. 

My bad

[The Consigliere]

On 2/21/2024 at 7:53 AM, MartinC said:

The difference was when we drafted Young #2 we had used a first round draft pick on a QB the year before - and that QB had played well the last couple of games of his rookie season. 
 

There was some logic to not taking a QB #2 overall a year later. 
 

With hindsight a key mistake that doomed Ron from the get go. 

I don't think its hindsight. Some of us said it. Everyone knew Haskins was a reach (at the time my sole argument in favor of him was: thank god we didn't trade '20 assets to move up for Danny Nickels, that alone, I could live with taking Haskins at slot), you're right that he showed something, played solid in December, and generally as a rookie, but I think we as fans, except for those who are connected to people on the inside, flat out did not know about the dude's issues in terms of professionalism, mental make up, first in/last out etc because Ron was ready to heave his --- out on a very short leash and he did stick with vastly statistically, and arm talent inferior players over him. I wanted a QB in '20 very simply because Burrow and Tua were both considered 1.01 talents, Burrow in Spring '20, Tua from 2017-his injury in October of '19. That to me was a no brainer, regardless of what happened with Tua, Herbert was more speculative, but was also regarded as a guy you take without a second thought inside the top 10. Haskins was literally never that, not in a bad class like '19, not in a great class up top like 20. That to me alone justified it, and considering how out Ron was on Haskins from day 1, he should have pulled the trigger on a QB anyway, period. The old rule really needs to be underlined: If you aren't sure if you have a QB, you don't have one, and should take one, period. The worst case scenario is you have two of the most valuable things imaginable if it turns out you actually did have a guy on your roster. That's not a problem, that's an asset you could spin. Instead, we spent the next several years with one of the 2-3 worst QB rooms in the league, season in and season out. 

[The Consigliere]

23 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Here go the dramatics and hyperbole. Yall are so theatrical.

 

RG3 has a stronger arm, nobody disagreed with that. RG3 also couldn't read a defense to save his life, played in a gimmicky offense in college and also had a significant injury history before we drafted him. Thats also facts.

 

 

I think my disagreement with this chart would be that both Williams and Maye having a much lower floor than stated here (and Maye taking a lot longer IMO for him to possibly reach his ceiling with the stuff he needs to clean up). 

This seems like somebody making a graph to illustrate non-data that is basically just is own hunch, which is just kind of silly and pointless. 

[Redskin21502]

The work KOC did with Haskins once he took over playcalling the last part of Haskins rookie year is some of the best coaching that has been done here in quite some time. Unfortunately it also set us back as an organization thinking we possibly had something to work with when we had the number 2 pick in hand. Then when Rivera went with Scott Turner instead of bringing KOC back it was a major mistake on Rivera's part and led to the slide we've had the last few years.

[ST_DaGoat21]

Seems spot on to me.

 

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10108009-2024-nfl-draft-big-board-br-nfl-scouting-depts-post-senior-bowl-rankings.amp.html

 

1. WR Marvin Harrison Jr., Ohio State (9.7)

2. TE Brock Bowers, Georgia (9.3)

3. QB Drake Maye, North Carolina (9.3)

4. QB Caleb Williams, USC (9.2)

5. OT Joe Alt, Notre Dame (9.0)

6. OT Olumuyiwa Fashanu, Penn State (9.0)

7. WR Malik Nabers, LSU (8.8)

8. Edge Jared Verse, Florida State (8.6)

9. WR Rome Odunze, Washington (8.5)

10. CB Terrion Arnold, Alabama (8.5)

11. Edge Laiatu Latu, UCLA (8.5)

12. CB Quinyon Mitchell, Toledo (8.5)

13. Edge Dallas Turner, Alabama (8.4)

14. OT JC Latham, Alabama (8.4)

15. CB Kool-Aid McKinstry, Alabama (8.4)

16. DL Jer'Zhan Newton, Illinois (8.2)

17. IOL Troy Fautanu, Washington (8.2)

18. WR Keon Coleman, Florida State (8.2)

19. IOL Jackson Powers-Johnson, Oregon (8.1)

20. Edge Chop Robinson, Penn State (8.0)

21. WR Brian Thomas Jr., LSU (7.9)

22. DL Byron Murphy II, Texas (7.9)

23. OT Amarius Mims, Georgia (7.8)

24. QB Jayden Daniels, LSU (7.8)

Edited February 22 by ST_DaGoat21

[mac8887]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Good lord so many people calling into 980 advocating for passing up on a QB.

 

Its like people just don't know anything except mediocrity.

 

How can anyone justify building around Sam effing Howell at this point? I'm sorry, I just don't get it.

I ran into a howler at this little pizzeria during lunch yesterday. He had a beanie with the old Joe Gibbs R style symbol on it. 

 

I said I like your hat and asked him who he wanted out of the top three qbs, he said draft alt and stick with howell. He said he liked that Howell threw it all over the place and didn't check down hardly ever. Then I stated that yes he did through the ball all over the place but quite often to the other team.

 

It's like some people either stopped watching after the loosing started and didn't see that awful 6 game stretch towards the end of the year or just have selective memory.

 

He was at 17tds to 9 ints at one point and finished 21-21 that's 4 tds to 12 ints, that is horrid, and on top of that during those games, the offense stopped moving the ball. He wasn't throwing picks while racking up big yardage, he was throwing picks while throwing for under 200. And the worst part is the oline had started protecting him a little better by then as well.

[CommanderInTheRye]

As someone who has been on both sides of what we all know is the most important, historic, and consequential, decision of mankinds brief time on this planet---

 

To be immortalized by historians and future generations as "the great Commanders qb debate of 2024"

 

I now find myself  so lost, confused, and uncertain that I feel like I'm straddling the razor's edge of some terrifying abyss that on one side leads to an eternity of football doom if we choose incorrectly and on the other side leads to the absolute certainty of countless consecutive Super Bowl winning seasons should we make the right choice.

 

What then are we to do?

 

In this confused state of mind, I pause and reflect and feel a near sacred obligation to say the following to the forum:

 

 

 

 

I appreciate, and  find value in, all of the contributions to this thread-- on both sides of the argument.

 

That said, I want to offer a very special tip of my top hat, followed by a deep reverential bow, to those of you who somehow manage to share your opinions without denigrating either the quarterback you don't support or the posters who support that player.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 22 by CommanderInTheRye

[Rufus T Firefly]

57 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

It was the right move for the Bears no big contract for fields and a QB on another rookie contract? Was not going to happen if they drafted instead last year and took the wrong QB. Carolina lost there MoJo and now have a hard road to climb. I get the point of QB at 2 but it is not the only way. Odds favor take the QB at 2nd pick. They have to believe he is there man.

[FrFan]

2 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

I appreciate, and  find value, in all of the contributions to this thread-- on both sides of the argument.

 

That said, I want to offer a very special tip of my top hat, followed by a deep reverential bow, to those of you who somehow manage to share your opinions without denigrating either the quarterback you don't support or the posters who support that player

 

 

 

Eventhough a minority still don't get the bold ones

[ThatNFLChick]

Did not notice this yesterday and this seems weird. The Seahawks now have two former coaches of Jayden Daniels on their staff?

 

 

[mh86]

27 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

I ran into a howler at this little pizzeria during lunch yesterday. He had a beanie with the old Joe Gibbs R style symbol on it. 

 

I said I like your hat and asked him who he wanted out of the top three qbs, he said draft alt and stick with howell. He said he liked that Howell threw it all over the place and didn't check down hardly ever. Then I stated that yes he did through the ball all over the place but quite often to the other team.

 

It's like some people either stopped watching after the loosing started and didn't see that awful 6 game stretch towards the end of the year or just have selective memory.

 

He was at 17tds to 9 ints at one point and finished 21-21 that's 4 tds to 12 ints, that is horrid, and on top of that during those games, the offense stopped moving the ball. He wasn't throwing picks while racking up big yardage, he was throwing picks while throwing for under 200. And the worst part is the oline had started protecting him a little better by then as well.

It’s not surprising at all considering the amount of fans who were content with signing Heinicke to a long term deal and rolling him out because he had “moxie” and “just won”. Also, Howell had one full season starting in a really crappy situation at coaching and lack of talent on both sides of the ball. For those reasons I can understand why some want to give him a second chance, but when/if he fails or doesn’t show enough to be that guy, they’d be calling for a QB next season when we aren’t in a good position to draft one and there aren’t nearly as many great options to draft. 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, skinsfan66 said:

Just look at last year, the Bears played it right and are set up for the new QB if they want? Look at Carolina 1 year wasted of the rookie contract and build, now they are without a 1st rd. pick to grab a top prospect. Ron sucked on the rebuild. With the right Person making the right picks and how to do it, any way can work. The 2 QB's in the S.B. were 2nd. tier and not in a tier at all.  Choices and a open mind to everything is what I am trying to think about this. We all have favorites or how to do it. Let's hope new owners picked the right people to do the job. 

 

The Bears didn't "play it right" the Bears played it "insanely lucky"

 

Let's not pretend like they had some sort of superhuman prescience and predicted that the pick they traded for would end up the #1 overall pick and they'd have a shot at Caleb Williams.

 

It was blind stinking luck, nothing more, nothing less.

 

They were hoping they had their QB in Fields so they traded back in the hopes of stockpiling picks to surround him with more talent in 2024. That's all.

[The Consigliere]

21 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I love that our offensive staff has either coached or were around the following QBs at some point in their careers:

• Patrick Mahomes (Kingsbury)

• Aaron Rodgers (David Raih)

• Ben Roethlisberger (Bobby Engram)

• Josh Allen (Bobby Johnson)

• Andrew Luck (Pritchard - though he was a defensive assistant at the time)

• Lamar Jackson (Bobby Engram)

• Justin Herbert (Anthony Lynn)

• Dak Prescott (Brian Johnson)

• Jared Goff (Anthony Lynn)

• Jalen Hurts (Brian Johnson)

• Kyler Murray (Kingsbury)

• Baker Mayfield (Kingsbury & David Raih)

 

They were close enough to see how these QBs operated on a daily basis.  The level of first-hand experience these guys can share on what it takes to be an good-to-great QB in this league (level of work ethic, film study, training, preparation, etc.) is invaluable for a young QB.

Great point. I wonder how many ---- QB's they've had to put up with too?

[The Consigliere]

18 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Giants are a very obvious trade up candidate at this point:

 

 

Well, I've definitely enjoyed them wasting five years on Nickels, and a cap busting contract. I'm not quite sure how they get "out" of that terrible deal soon though. Seems like the dead cap hit is 69 mill this offseason, 22 mill in '25, '11 in '26. Seems like they got to ride it out, with him on the roster until at least next offseason or next, but it does make sense for them to grab a QB, I'm a touch annoyed they're within trade up zone of the Patriots. 

18 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

I could see the Raiders or Falcons trading with the Chargers to move up to 5 overall and draft QB4 assuming Caleb/Maye/Daniels are all off the board by then.  

Heard someone mention recently that the Chargers would be nuts to pass on getting OL help. Interesting predicament. If you're SD, do you do a trade down, and if so do you go after Nabers to fix the mistake of Johnston, just get Bowers, or trade down and take the best of the big 2 OT's who've slipped on most projections? 

 

Chargers are in great position to trade down, and probably should considering they can get the #2 OT, #2 WR and #1 TE with a bit of a move down, that could allow them to move up to get the last of the OL's they like in the late 1st too. 

[The Consigliere]

12 hours ago, FrFan said:

Mahomes Texas Tech 55 (Left) 55 (Right), Bulger has quite a different number. I don't know who's right though, what I believe is that speed means nothing without control.

Ball Velocity Is Bunk

 

 

Yep, I genuinely worried about those #'s back in '17, ended up with no Watson in Dynasty out of fear he might have Danny Woeful arm, but never again. I ignored Velocity ever more after that. 

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

 

 

If he can learn to protect himself better, and can throw more on the run, instead of running it himself, which I'm sure he will, the coaches will harp on this, than this is the guy we should get if we can't get caleb williams. But I would be happy if the coaches pick drake maye as well and will cheer him on just the same.

 

 

 

 

To me he needs to change his instinct on two things.  And as Keim points out in his podcasts, its easier said then done to change someones natural tendency.

 

A. Protect yourself, get out of bounds, get down versus going for the extra yards on the ground.

 

B. you can't take off that much when you are flushed out of the pocket.  the go to move is to buy time and make a throw, throw off platform.  It's not just about him getting hurt but NFL defenses can cue on that tendency and simply protect the edges to keep him in pocket to force him to throw.  He runs double the time that the average even running NFL QB takes off when flushed in the pocket -- you can't do that in the NFL. 

 

He addresses both points and he IMO can be really good in the pros.

[Jumbo]

I suggest newcomers here give real attention to two things: you better read the rules and guidelines page and (1), actually learn and adhere to the rules and (2), internalize what's said about the kind site this is and what kind it isn't. 

 

I'll add that every time we draft in the top five, as most recently re: Haskins  and Young, we get a handful of new members who are college fans of a player we might draft and come here mainly to advocate for their guy. They often do most of their posting in the threads that directly apply to that interest. 

 

This forum is, by far, mostly populated with longtime fans of the team as a whole and everything that involves the team and they participate in topics on every aspect of the entire organization. Most members have been here many years and the vast majority are quite knowledgeable about the game.

 

So noobs should also take time to get to know the community before they go "full whatever."

 

Again, carefully reading and following everything on the rules and guidelines page will be essential to you being able to retain posting privileges and enjoy one of the most knowledgeable and fun forums on the internet. No brag, just fact. 😁

 

(You may even find yourself able to enjoy venturing into the tailgate forum, where other kinds of hijinks and hilarity abound, and survive the experience) 😛👹

[The Consigliere]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Good lord so many people calling into 980 advocating for passing up on a QB.

 

Its like people just don't know anything except mediocrity.

 

How can anyone justify building around Sam effing Howell at this point? I'm sorry, I just don't get it.

talk radio is the lowest, most pathetic form of analysis imaginable. 

[ThatNFLChick]

15 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Yep, I genuinely worried about those #'s back in '17, ended up with no Watson in Dynasty out of fear he might have Danny Woeful arm, but never again. I ignored Velocity ever more after that. 

 

Was Watson just having an off day? He has a good arm. 

 

Also I don't even think most teams pay attention to velocity numbers anymore unless there is a question about arm strength (I don't think there really is about Daniels by most).

 

I still think the top 3 QBs sit out most of the stuff at the combine. Caleb definitely won't do anything but measure, same as Bryce last year.