The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[SpacePenguin]

I hope they keep Howell, regardless of what diceroll of a college QB they end up drafting. I know he looked like Patrick Ramsey trying to cross a 4 lane highway during rush hour in the last few games, but I think he would benefit from anything resembling an NFL running game and a defense. There have been far worse QBs starting for the RedFootCommies.

 

Kirk looking over Bobart's shoulder was the only thing that made this mess watchable for a few years....and that track field giraffe was a "can't miss" prospect. There are no sure bets when drafting an NFL QB. Hedging your bets is truly the smartest thing to do.

 

Whatever, though...not like my opinion changes anything. Kinda why I tune out on these types of threads. I'm like a jaded war veteran who has seen endless hell (once a week) for 25 years or so. That's not any fun for anyone that has optimism left.

Edited February 20 by SpacePenguin

[MartinC]

30 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

 

I mean did people think that about us when we passed on Tua and Herbert to take Chase Young when we very clearly needed a QB? Also, besides the Raiders, the other reported trade up partners would be in the NFC

But we didn't trade down. It’s also the decision that eventually led to Ron and the entire coaching staff being fired.

[bird_1972]

6 hours ago, skinsarethebest said:

the only thing any rookie QB would learn from Sam is how to be terrible and how to throw pick 6s all the time.  Hard pass on this.   Also, I think the rest of the team would probably start an uprising if this were the case.  Last season was already spent as a lost season because somehow the coaches couldn’t move on from Sam, and now you want to continue to still tie the Sam Howell albatross around this team’s neck for another season?  No thank you.

 

The only problem is that it's the coaching and sitting in on meetings that's most valuable for the rookie, not necessary getting tutoring from the starter (in this case, Howell). 

 

Do you really think Favre "taught" or "mentored" Aaron Rodgers?

[88Comrade2000]

We are drafting a qb at #2. Hopefully, we never have to be drafting that high again. Since this a qb draft with 3 supposedly to be in the first tier, you take the shot.

 

You sign a vet to back him up. If the team keeps 3 qbs, Sam drops to 3rd string.

 

I can see us either drafting another qb in the 7th round or sign a rookie free agent to be our 3rd string qb.

 

I can see them trading Sam, if they get anything.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

It’s gonna be Maye. Get ready Daniels’ fans.

 

[ThatNFLChick]

50 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

The only problem is that it's the coaching and sitting in on meetings that's most valuable for the rookie, not necessary getting tutoring from the starter (in this case, Howell). 

 

Do you really think Favre "taught" or "mentored" Aaron Rodgers?

 

Its not about sitting them down and saying "this is how you play QB" it was Rodgers watching how Favre commanded a huddle, how he communicated with his receivers and running backs, how he studied film, how he took care of his body, how he practiced, how he pointed out tendencies or things he saw to the defense, etc.

 

 

19 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

It’s gonna be Maye. Get ready Daniels’ fans.

 

 

It's very weird how 'Daniels fans' are supposedly a cult or whatever but even when we are having a conversation about something totally different in this thread someone comes in trying to antagonize with posts like these or the 2 hour video of whomever that was posted earlier saying 'Daniels fans are going to rage about this.' Its like yall want someone to go back and forth just so yall can say "see look at the Daniels fans." Weird. 

Edited February 20 by ThatNFLChick

[gooseneck]

I was just admiring the toilet paper picture.  I couldn't really give an opinion on who is better or worse of the top QB's. In fact, it would not surprise me if Michael Pratt was not the best QB in the draft.  The best scouts have not been accurate on whether a QB can make it in the NFL throughout history so even though I like the information on QB's on this forum, I do not take it too seriously.

[zCommander]

3 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

I mean did people think that about us when we passed on Tua and Herbert to take Chase Young when we very clearly needed a QB? 

 

Everybody knew we were taking Chase so no other team was going to trade up to the #2 spot. We had drafted Haskins the year before so it was very clear that we didn't need to get a QB again in 2020. Also, Haskins was a Dan pick (to make his son happy) anyway so it was moot point to even think about getting another QB a year later. 

[Est.1974]

8 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

My though is I'd ask for less now but ask for a conditional pick in two years. If he does almost nothing, it'd be a 7th, but if he played a lot and really played well it would go a lot higher. 

Absolutely this. We really aren’t desperate for a 4th rounder this year. And there is some ‘risk’ to trading Howell in terms of him looking good down the line.

[FootballZombie]

3 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Its like yall want someone to go back and forth just so yall can say "see look at the Daniels fans." Weird. 

 

 

There were people who themselves made crystal clear that their only intention was to try and draw a reaction... and said people then act like the circumstance is not manufactured.

 

Throw bait, get fish.

But don't throw bait and then wonder aloud why on earth your catching so many fish.

 

Its actively chumming the water and then complaining when the sharks bite.

 

 

I know the cycle well, I crack jokes like 24/7 on here.

[Est.1974]

3 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

It's very weird how 'Daniels fans' are supposedly a cult or whatever but even when we are having a conversation about something totally different in this thread someone comes in trying to antagonize with posts like these or the 2 hour video of whomever that was posted earlier saying 'Daniels fans are going to rage about this.' Its like yall want someone to go back and forth just so yall can say "see look at the Daniels fans." Weird. 

Got to roll with the ES away. Once the news breaks that we aren’t taking Maye at #2 it will become even better 

[Chris 44]

5 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

It’s gonna be Maye. Get ready Daniels’ fans.

 

Notice how the paper goes "over" as opposed to "under".

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, RWJ said:

It's a tough call.  Not directed at you, SIP but we need OL.  We can get one of the top guys trading down with the Falcons, Jets (I think they need a QB too) and Vikes and get one of the better OL in the draft.  Our fixes on D are in FA. Then who do you take at QB?  As many have mentioned, each of the top 3 QBs has his own issues here and there.  Purdy was selected in the 7th round.  It wouldn't surprise me to see Peters take two QBs in the draft.  Anything is possible.  I think a trade down or two will happen if not, three.  Peters is Beathard in the mid/late rounds.  I'm just saying.  

 

lol. you have been all over the place on the QB subject.  Run with Howell.  Then it was Daniels is the dude.  Then it was Maye.  Now trade down?

 

I don't think its a tough call at all. The analogy used here by a poster about it feels like we are prisoners let out of prison and not sure what to do with ourselves now feels a bit apt.  If they trade down and pass on one of the stronger top 3 draft QB combination that I can recall in eons because of addressing other needs -- then as much as i loved the Peters hire, I'll be calling for his head if it blows up on him, its a big time fireable offense.

 

Giving the potential get out of free jail card to another team for QB and it blowing up in this tean's face would be quite the cherry on top of the 30-30 special we will watch some day in that case about this teams dysfunctional failures to find a franchise QB.  I think the show would probably be about this team and the Jets -- arguably two loser franchises that make one mishap after another at QB.

 

But am not worried about it.  I don't think Peters will risk his job from the jump and start this regume with the same mistake that plagued Rivera and ultimately cost Rivera his job.

Edited February 20 by Skinsinparadise

[Chris 44]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

But am not worried about it.  I don't think Peters will risk his job from the jump and start this regume with the same mistake that plagued Rivera and ultimately cost Rivera his job.

I think the only way Peters screws this up is if he has too much time to think about it and overthinks it, like he was trying to prove to his new boss how good he is. I dont think that will happen, if he wants to put his "stamp" on the draft he can do that in later rounds. Having said that I think there are now so many "cooler" heads in this organization and folks who all will have input to a degree that will actually be listened to rather than  ignored, as in the previous regime. I dont think we will see any really surprise head scratcher picks out of this group. Look for solid, researched picks, that actually fit the plan.

[Skinsinparadise]

Will see if Keim keeps his streak (among others) going as to guessing right -- that they aren't tradiing up for Caleb, in his view its both that the team doesn't want to trade up and the Bears don't want to trade the pick. 

 

And no @Est.1974 its not that am rooting against Caleb coming here.    If you check me out on the draft thread from months back I talked about watching Marshawn Lloyd and being blown away by Caleb while watching Lloyd.  I'd love Caleb here.  But way too much smoke that Bears aren't trading that pick and that's from even months back which I talked about at the time when listening to a Bears beat guy talk about it as afar back as our game against the Bears early that season.  They thought from their sources that the Bears picking high will take that QB for among other reasons they want to start over on a rookie contract.

 

As far as what I want personally?  I want whatever they want.  Simple as that.  i got my opinions.  I think mine is one of the least angst based opinion on this thread as far as the three QBs.  Love to have any one of them.  I prefer them in the conventional order that most rank them Caleb, Maye, Daniels.  All I think are potential franchise QBs.  All have some bust factor to them but who doesn't.  That's how it goes.

 

My only angst position is don't trade down and pass over these guys.  That's my button.  And if they do that and it blows up on them, Peters needs to go.  But am not worried that it happens.

 

Back to Caleb, looks like this is about to be put to rest one way or another.  I think zero chance they trade Justin and also pass on a QB.  If they decide to keep Justin, then certainly some questions will arise.

 

 

 

Edited February 20 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

41 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

I think the only way Peters screws this up is if he has too much time to think about it and overthinks it, like he was trying to prove to his new boss how good he is. I dont think that will happen, if he wants to put his "stamp" on the draft he can do that in later rounds. Having said that I think there are now so many "cooler" heads in this organization and folks who all will have input to a degree that will actually be listened to rather than  ignored, as in the previous regime. I dont think we will see any really surprise head scratcher picks out of this group. Look for solid, researched picks, that actually fit the plan.

 

Agree.  100% we will get narratives that everything is on the table.  Veteran signing.  Howell will be the starter.  Trade down.  Trade up.  Take a QB at #2.  That woudn't bother me.  That's how smart teams play it because you want to keep other teams guessing about your intentions versus telegraphing it. 

 

So that won't bother me aside from it might be annoying when they run that script and the vocal minority who want to trade down and or run it back with Howell will gloat that Peters is seriously considering it.     Personaly I doubt he will be seriously considering it all but that has to be the move as to what you say publicly and leak privately too.  That's the smart way to do it.  Keep other teams guessing.  And on the off chance they want to trade Howell, you want to amp his trade value just like the Cardinals did with Rosen -- if you recall all the articles about how "torn" the Cardinals were about Rosen before they took Murray because of how much they believe in Rosen, etc. 

 

And look for me personally I think Howell is a better QB than Rosen was.  I think he can be a starter in this league just got major doubts that he's a high end starter. 

 

But yeah for example listening to multiple Bears reporters talk about why they expect the Bears to go with Caleb part of that story is two fold.

 

1.  Starting over with a rookie QB salary is more valuable than ever.

 

2.  The politics of passing over a QB picking #1 two years in a row is something this regime won't survive if it blows up in their face. 

 

I think the same principles apply to this team in different ways

 

1.  Starting over with a rookie QB salary

 

2.  For Ron to start his regime by passing over Herbert and Tua and then this regime to try that same dance from the jump?

 

I think the odds are almost zero that they do it.  But it wll feel like 50-50 that they might as for what they say publicly and privately right until draft day

Edited February 20 by Skinsinparadise

[HTTRDynasty]

This actually makes a lot of sense for NE if they’re still looking to “win now” (which seems to be the case). Mayfield is a solid QB. Trade #3 to the Raiders or Falcons and build up that roster.  
 

 

[Chris 44]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.  100% we will get narratives that everything is on the table.  Veteran signing.  Howell will be the starter.  Trade down.  Trade up.  Take a QB at #2.  That woudn't bother me.  That's how smart teams play it because you want to keep other teams guessing about your intentions versus telegraphing it. 

 

So that won't bother me aside from it might be annoying when they run that script and the vocal minority who want to trade down and or run it back with Howell will gloat that Peters is seriously considering it.     Personaly I doubt he will be seriously considering it all but that has to be the move as to what you say publicly and leak privately too.  That's the smart what to do it.  Keep other teams guessing.  And on the off chance they want to trade Howell, you want to amp his trade value just like the Cardinals did with Rosen -- if you recall all the articles about how "torn" the Cardinals were about Rosen before they took Murray because of how much they believe in Rosen, etc. 

 

And look for me personally I think Howell is a better QB than Rosen was.  I think he can be a starter in this league just got major doubts that he's a high end starter. 

 

But yeah for example listening to multiple Bears reporters talk about why they expect the Bears to go with Caleb part of that story is two fold.

 

1.  Starting over with a rookie QB salary is more valuable than ever.

 

2.  The politics of passing over a QB picking #1 two years in a row is something this regime won't survive if it blows up in their face. 

 

I think the same principles apply to this team in different ways

 

1.  Starting over with a rookie QB salary

 

2.  For Ron to start his regime by passing over Herbert and Tua and then this regime to try that same dance from the jump?

 

I think the odds are almost zero that they do it.  But it wll feel like 50-50 that they might as for what they say publicly and privately right until draft day

Its interesting how to a large extent the way organizations are mirrors of the owners. People, whether they want to or not, will for the most part act in a manner that is favorable toward their boss. Snyder was a cluster ****, his team was thus a cluster****. Harris is very deliberate, process focused with an eye toward the future and sustainability. This has become very apparent over the last several weeks. He will give those he brought in the ability to do their jobs without him meddling but keep in mind he chose these folks, guys who generally align with his philosophies. Snyder brought in the big names without a thought toward the actual fit in the organization, up until he became a cartoon figure and could only hire those who were desperate or chasing money. Just my long winded way of saying expect everything from here on out to be very well thought out and researched, Starting with taking a QB at pick #2.

[HigSkin]

It just feels like Sam has more value here as a backup or spot starter than some third day pick.

 

EDIT - I see this was discussed a couple of days ago.  Haven't been keeping track of this site since in went in to the toilet!

 

https://sny.tv/articles/jets-mailbag-joe-douglas-prioritize-nfl-draft-free-agency

 

@TomSeaverRules: Do the Jets kick the tires on a trade for Sam Howell?

I love the idea of this, assuming he’s available. The Commanders could easily keep him as the backup. It’s not like this is a Sam Darnold, Justin Fields situation. If available, though, I’d prioritize him over anyone else.

Howell proved this year he can play. There are flaws to his game, but none where the season is lost if he has to play. He’s also cheaper. Howell would have a cap hit under $1 million each of the next two years — that matters to Woody Johnson and the Jets. There are those in the Jets building who believe he can play, too. Maybe two years learning behind Rodgers really unlocks his potential and he ends up being his replacement. He did throw for 3,946 yards and 21 touchdowns on a terrible Commanders team.

The key will simply be compensation. The Jets should do this if all it takes is a pick on the third day of the draft. Howell is just as good of an insurance policy as Gardner Minshew or Jacoby Brissett.

 

 

Edited February 20 by HigSkin

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Its interesting how to a large extent the way organizations are mirrors of the owners. People, whether they want to or not, will for the most part act in a manner that is favorable toward their boss. Snyder was a cluster ****, his team was thus a cluster****. Harris is very deliberate, process focused with an eye toward the future and sustainability. This has become very apparent over the last several weeks. He will give those he brought in the ability to do their jobs without him meddling but keep in mind he chose these folks, guys who generally align with his philosophies. Snyder brought in the big names without a thought toward the actual fit in the organization, up until he became a cartoon figure and could only hire those who were desperate or chasing money. Just my long winded way of saying expect everything from here on out to be very well thought out and researched, Starting with taking a QB at pick #2.

 

Agree.

 

Look if they delve hard on this and decide to go with something unconventional and trade down or run with Howell, I'll support it in real time.  But they better be right in that case.  If you do something funky than you got to nail it IMO.

 

QB needy teams don't trade down from a top 2 pick or pass over one especially in a touted draft for QBs.  Some say well this team did and the Bears did.  The difference though was both teams recently already took a young QB in the top half of the first round.  Both teams thought they might already have that young QB in hand.   That's different.

 

But yeah to your point, I agree they will genuinely study every angle there is on every one of these QBs versus rushing into an emotional decision (Dan style) about anyone of these guys.

 

So for me especially if they stay at #2, I'll be jazzed at whatever QB the took because I am presuming the reseach on that dude was exhaustive.  Plus there is a component to this that none of us know.  Who are they as people.  And we aren't part of their pro days and private meetings where their processing skills might be tested.   In the end we are working with much less information than they will be. 

 

Now if they trade down (which I don't expect), I'll be cynical about it but I'll trust it in real time but if it blows up on them, I'd want a reset of that FO.  But the odds that it happens I'd guess is like 2 percent.

5 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

It just feels like Sam has more value here as a backup or spot starter than some third day pick.

 

https://sny.tv/articles/jets-mailbag-joe-douglas-prioritize-nfl-draft-free-agency

 

@TomSeaverRules: Do the Jets kick the tires on a trade for Sam Howell?

I love the idea of this, assuming he’s available. The Commanders could easily keep him as the backup. It’s not like this is a Sam Darnold, Justin Fields situation. If available, though, I’d prioritize him over anyone else.

Howell proved this year he can play. There are flaws to his game, but none where the season is lost if he has to play. He’s also cheaper. Howell would have a cap hit under $1 million each of the next two years — that matters to Woody Johnson and the Jets. There are those in the Jets building who believe he can play, too. Maybe two years learning behind Rodgers really unlocks his potential and he ends up being his replacement. He did throw for 3,946 yards and 21 touchdowns on a terrible Commanders team.

The key will simply be compensation. The Jets should do this if all it takes is a pick on the third day of the draft. Howell is just as good of an insurance policy as Gardner Minshew or Jacoby Brissett.

 

 

 

I wouldn't trade Howell unless its a third at a minimum.  no way I'd trade him for a 4th or 5th

Edited February 20 by Skinsinparadise

[Chris 44]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

So for me especially if they stay at #2, I'll be jazzed at whatever QB the took because I am presuming the reseach on that dude was exhaustive.  Plus there is a component to this than none of us know.  Who are they as people.  And we aren't part of their pro days and private meetings where their processing skills might be tested.   In the end we are working with much less information than they will be. 

 

 

This to me is key, we dont know nearly as much as the team will know about these guys. Im going to side with the guys doing in the in depth research (which I am very confident they will) over anyone outside of the process. And this time there is a process, previously the scouts, GM etc. may have had a process in place but no doubt in my mind that all went to **** on draft day.

Like you said though if Peters does not go QB at 2 and drafts down he has to get it right for the sake of his future career. Lot of smoke between now and then but I would be shocked if the obvious choice is not the choice made come draft day.

[DWinzit]

29 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think the same principles apply to this team in different ways

 

1.  Starting over with a rookie QB salary

 

2.  For Ron to start his regime by passing over Herbert and Tua and then this regime to try that same dance from the jump?

 

I think the odds are almost zero that they do it.  But it wll feel like 50-50 that they might as for what they say publicly and privately right until draft day

Totally agree but want the intrigue of our pick to stick until selection two, no telegraphing thoughts.

 

Also that they did make a huge mistake not taking a QB when they had the opportunity chosing a 4th DL in 4 years as the first rounder. They could have really ccapitalizied on a slight trade back and taking a QB along with filling holes that would have set them up for the future. Just liked it was a major screw up not taking Darrisaw and here we are still trying to figurrre out LT...but that's another story lol

[RandyHolt]

Let me be the first to say I think it sucks that the general rule is that you can't have 2 young QBs on the same roster. Ignoring the best 2 QBs we drafted in recent memory was the year we took both Cousins and Me.

 

With the high bust rate of QBs I think all teams should carry 2 QBs to groom until one graduates to being a top ~10 QB or inevitably fails. It wasn't long ago a young backup QB looking great for a few games could be traded for a kings ransom.  Its telling how we rarely drafted QBs in the past 20 years. Long story short I think we should hold Howell have 3 QBs if we need an old vet and if someone wants to grossly overpay for Howell (LFG Jets!)  sure take that offer and run. Howell faced a TON of adversity sat a year thrown to the wolves for a year on a team with elite organizational dysfunction and could be a steadying vet like hand for a Maye. Or still be a decent player for many years now that he has an NFL grade coaching staff to develop him. He (and EB) got NO offensive players in our last draft; our offensive pieces stagnant from the previous year.

 

I call bunk competition at QB is bad when its fine for every other position. Suck it up snowflakes.

Edited February 20 by RandyHolt

[Going Commando]

16 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Just going off of the old trade value chart, our two second rounders combined are worth about the number 15 overall. Anybody you could see dropping that far that would be worth two second round picks?

 

Jared Verse and Brock Bowers for me.

[mhd24]

3 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Jared Verse and Brock Bowers for me.

 

If LAC passes on Bowers, I could see him dropping to that 10-15 range.  Chicago might pounce assuming the top 3 WRs are gone.  Kmet is OK, but he's no Bowers.

 

I think Verse ends up being Edge 2.  Latu has the medical issues while Turner ends up being Edge 1.  New Orleans needs an infusion of young edge rushing talent on that aging defense.