The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Jared Verse and Brock Bowers for me.

 

I've seen Bowers in the mid first in some mocks.  Don't know if that happens in reality but if it did, that would be insane if they can go up and get him.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Chris 44 said:

I think the only way Peters screws this up is if he has too much time to think about it and overthinks it, like he was trying to prove to his new boss how good he is. I dont think that will happen, if he wants to put his "stamp" on the draft he can do that in later rounds. Having said that I think there are now so many "cooler" heads in this organization and folks who all will have input to a degree that will actually be listened to rather than  ignored, as in the previous regime. I dont think we will see any really surprise head scratcher picks out of this group. Look for solid, researched picks, that actually fit the plan.

 

I think the reason that Peters (and other guys like Kingsbury) took this job was because we'll be able to draft Drake Maye.  That ability to start the entire build off with an elite QB prospect similar to what the Texans did last year was THE major selling point for the Commanders in accumulating all of this FO and coaching talent this offseason.

 

Draft media want an unpredictable draft, but at the end of the day the top of this draft is probably going to be super chalky.  Caleb Williams and Drake Maye have been one and two for nearly two years, and Jayden Daniels emerged as QB3 by Thanksgiving.  Maybe the Patriots do something weird, but that probably means a trade to either Atlanta or Oakland, who are moving up for Daniels.

[HTTRDynasty]

Two guys I respect on QBs. Pick #2 is at ~9 minutes. 
 

 

Full QB breakdown:

 

 

[Warhead36]

What I don't get from the people who wanna pass on QB is: what exactly are you looking for? Guys like Maye and Daniels are as good as it realistically gets as far as high-end prospects go (ditto Williams too but we're not getting him). At some point, you have to have a plan on a QB. Why wouldn't you want one of these two? Please don't tell me "lets build the team up first then find a QB", we tried that garbage plan the last few years and it didn't work. We've had good OLs and good WRs and good blah blah blah and haven't won jack. Get the blue chip QB and lets get this thing going.

[Going Commando]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've seen Bowers in the mid first in some mocks.  Don't know if that happens in reality but if it did, that would be insane if they can go up and get him.

 

Opinions on Bowers are a bit of a shibboleth for how closely draftniks actually followed college football the past few years to me.  He doesn't look the part of "greatest prospect in the history of his position." His ultra elite ceiling is totally obvious for anyone who watched a bunch of Georgia games over the last three years, but not for those who didn't.  So because of that, plus the low draft value of the TE position, I think there is some softness in his draft stock that isn't there for Nabers or Harrison Jr.

 

I've got him #3 overall on my board, and I believe he's been the best non QB in CFB the past two years.  And TBH, he might have been that by the end of his true freshman season when he was the best player on the field in the SEC CG.  If there is a chance to get him with our two seconds, I'm taking it for sure.  No hesitation.

 

Verse is almost in that same strata for me too.  Moving up for him would be akin to what the Texans did last year: starting a rebuild off by drafting the rookies of the year on both sides of the ball.

[Chump Bailey]

3 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

If there is a chance to get him with our two seconds, I'm taking it for sure.  No hesitation.

 

Agree completely

[zCommander]

24 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

What I don't get from the people who wanna pass on QB is: what exactly are you looking for? Guys like Maye and Daniels are as good as it realistically gets as far as high-end prospects go (ditto Williams too but we're not getting him). At some point, you have to have a plan on a QB. Why wouldn't you want one of these two? Please don't tell me "lets build the team up first then find a QB", we tried that garbage plan the last few years and it didn't work. We've had good OLs and good WRs and good blah blah blah and haven't won jack. Get the blue chip QB and lets get this thing going.

 

Ron trading for Wentz was not building the team around the QB. That was throwing $28 mil down the toilet instead of. That is what I wanted like 3 years ago and Howell would have been on a team with a legit O from day 1 and would have started last year not this year. But hey Ron was smart. Well we saw how that turned out. Also our D sucked. You also have to build on both sides and not just the O side. 

 

Let me ask you this (hypothetically of course): What if Howell was selected in the 1st or the 2nd round would people still want to go QB in 2024? Or would they be saying build around Howell since he almost had 4K yards and 21 TD even on a crappy O and bad play calling? Maybe with legit O and OC he could be the guy? 

 

In the event the new shinny QB falls flat on his face we will still have Howell at least. I wouldn't trade him. He is still on a rookie contract and still valuable asset. 

 

EdIt: I would imagine Turner would have still been here (if it wasn't for Wentz) and this year would have been his 2nd year with Howell and a legit O and probably would have been a playoff team. 

 

 

Edited February 20 by zCommander

[Voice_of_Reason]

11 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

shibboleth

You get the “raising the bar on intelligence of the board award” of the day with your use of this word.

 

There is a great West Wing episode centered around it.  In fact I think the name of the episode is shibboleth. 

[Warhead36]

8 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Ron trading for Wentz was not building the team around the QB. That was throwing $28 mil down the toilet instead of. That is what I wanted like 3 years ago and Howell would have been on a team with a legit O from day 1 and would have started last year not this year. But hey Ron was smart. Well we saw how that turned out. Also our D sucked. You also have to build on both sides and not just the O side. 

 

Let me ask you this (hypothetically of course): What if Howell was selected in the 1st or the 2nd round would people still want to go QB in 2024? Or would they be saying build around Howell since he almost had 4K yards and 21 TD even on a crappy O and bad play calling? Maybe with legit O and OC he could be the guy? 

 

In the event the new shinny QB falls flat on his face we will still have Howell at least. I wouldn't trade him. He is still on a rookie contract and still valuable asset. 

 

But he wasn't taken in the 1st or 2nd round. Because he's not that good. He was taken in the 5th round in a horrendously bad QB class. His rookie contract is already halfway up. His ceiling is high end backup. You don't build around a guy like that. And "almost" 4000 yards and 21 TDs over 17 games with how many times he threw the ball is actually really really bad in today's NFL. 

 

You don't punt on blue chip QB prospects year 1 of a brand new regime to build around the previous regime's 5th round project. That's just awful team building strategy. 

18 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Opinions on Bowers are a bit of a shibboleth for how closely draftniks actually followed college football the past few years to me.  He doesn't look the part of "greatest prospect in the history of his position." His ultra elite ceiling is totally obvious for anyone who watched a bunch of Georgia games over the last three years, but not for those who didn't.  So because of that, plus the low draft value of the TE position, I think there is some softness in his draft stock that isn't there for Nabers or Harrison Jr.

 

I've got him #3 overall on my board, and I believe he's been the best non QB in CFB the past two years.  And TBH, he might have been that by the end of his true freshman season when he was the best player on the field in the SEC CG.  If there is a chance to get him with our two seconds, I'm taking it for sure.  No hesitation.

 

Verse is almost in that same strata for me too.  Moving up for him would be akin to what the Texans did last year: starting a rebuild off by drafting the rookies of the year on both sides of the ball.

I'm as anti-TE in the 1st as anyone but pairing Bowers with Maye/Daniels from the get go could be amazing. Imagine having our version of Brady/Gronk or Mahomes/Kelce for the next decade.

[zCommander]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

But he wasn't taken in the 1st or 2nd round. Because he's not that good. He was taken in the 5th round in a horrendously bad QB class. His rookie contract is already halfway up. His ceiling is high end backup. You don't build around a guy like that. And "almost" 4000 yards and 21 TDs over 17 games with how many times he threw the ball is actually really really bad in today's NFL. 

 

You don't punt on blue chip QB prospects year 1 of a brand new regime to build around the previous regime's 5th round project. That's just awful team building strategy. 

 

My point was that Wentz was the reason Howell was taken later than sooner. If there was no Wentz you never know. The team did have a higher grade on Howell than the other QB though. I think his ceiling is higher. The dude was constantly running for his life. That is not a good way to measure a QB though is all I am saying. Just my 2 cents. Hopefully the new FO will do what they think is best. And we can all hope it is the right decision. 

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

My point was that Wentz was the reason Howell was taken later than sooner. If there was no Wentz you never know. The team did have a higher grade on Howell than the other QB though. I think his ceiling is higher. The dude was constantly running for his life. That is not a good way to measure a QB though is all I am saying. Just my 2 cents. Hopefully the new FO will do what they think is best. And we can all hope it is the right decision. 

Nobody took Howell for almost five whole rounds. The fact that we had him graded higher is actually a negative, not a positive. 

 

He was running for his life, sure, but a lot of the sacks were on him. As were the high interceptions and general erratic-ness of his play. The league got it right.

 

He's a fine developmental QB, and if he were drafted to a team with better circumstances maybe one day he'd be a solid starter, but he is not a blue chip build your franchise around kind of guy, and it'd be foolish to try that when we can get a blue chip build your franchise around kind of guy.

Edited February 20 by Warhead36

[Bifflog]

40 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

What I don't get from the people who wanna pass on QB is: what exactly are you looking for?

 

Honestly, I think the answer is that they don't want to know, one way or the other, that we're doomed immediately.  It's too much finality, if you draft Maye and he doesn't show reasonable promise right away, you know you're the Jets for 3 more years, but the counterpoint is you're already the Jets so the best play is to take the plunge and hope you hit water and not rocks, because as is you're already a mangled corpse 🤷‍♂️

[Chris 44]

The problem with building a team first and getting your QB later is you will probably end up with a middish round pick and not have the chance to select the very best QBs available. Sure  you may find a QB in the draft in later rounds that will work out or you may sign a good vet. But that rookie contract for QB's is huge. if you sign a good vet QB your really going to pay out the nose which trickles down to signing other players that may have helped. Having a chance to draft a really top level QB does not happen often.

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

The problem with building a team first and getting your QB later is you will probably end up with a middish round pick and not have the chance to select the very best QBs available. Sure  you may find a QB in the draft in later rounds that will work out or you may sign a good vet. But that rookie contract for QB's is huge. if you sign a good vet QB your really going to pay out the nose which trickles down to signing other players that may have helped. Having a chance to draft a really top level QB does not happen often.

Yep. Signing a solid vet is actually the absolute worst thing to do as it guarantees you're stuck in purgatory. Take home run swings on high draft picks. If you hit, you have a window of 5 years minimum. If you miss, you try again in 2-3 years with what will be another high pick.

 

What you don't want is to be a team like the Saints where you're stuck picking somewhere in the middle because you invested in a guy like Derek Carr who isn't bad, but doesn't move the needle at all.

[MartinC]

Of note - next years QB draft class looks a LOT weaker than this year. 
 

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10107796-scout-shedeur-sanders-2025-nfl-draft-qb-class-wont-be-anything-close-to-2024.amp.html

[Warhead36]

Just now, MartinC said:

Of note - next years QB draft class looks a LOT weaker than this year. 
 

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10107796-scout-shedeur-sanders-2025-nfl-draft-qb-class-wont-be-anything-close-to-2024.amp.html

Yep if you don't get a guy this year then you're better off trying to tank for 2026 and Arch.

[RWJ]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

lol. you have been all over the place on the QB subject.  Run with Howell.  Then it was Daniels is the dude.  Then it was Maye.  Now trade down?

 

I don't think its a tough call at all. The analogy used here by a poster about it feels like we are prisoners let out of prison and not sure what to do with ourselves now feels a bit apt.  If they trade down and pass on one of the stronger top 3 draft QB combination that I can recall in eons because of addressing other needs -- then as much as i loved the Peters hire, I'll be calling for his head if it blows up on him, its a big time fireable offense.

 

Giving the potential get out of free jail card to another team for QB and it blowing up in this tean's face would be quite the cherry on top of the 30-30 special we will watch some day in that case about this teams dysfunctional failures to find a franchise QB.  I think the show would probably be about this team and the Jets -- arguably two loser franchises that make one mishap after another at QB.

 

But am not worried about it.  I don't think Peters will risk his job from the jump and start this regume with the same mistake that plagued Rivera and ultimately cost Rivera his job.

No, no, no.  I thought you might respond back like this and was waiting and noticed this . What does my signature say?  I am completely down on Maye and have made that known. I haven't waivered from that, SIP.  He has been my #1 for a long time now and you and others have seen that.   I just responded on a post you put out there on this thread.  We need OL in the worst way or get our QB killed just like Howell.  That's all I was saying.  

Edited February 20 by RWJ

[MartinC]

17 minutes ago, Bifflog said:

 

Honestly, I think the answer is that they don't want to know, one way or the other, that we're doomed immediately.  It's too much finality, if you draft Maye and he doesn't show reasonable promise right away, you know you're the Jets for 3 more years, but the counterpoint is you're already the Jets so the best play is to take the plunge and hope you hit water and not rocks, because as is you're already a mangled corpse 🤷‍♂️

We’ve largely been the Jets for the last 30 years or so. 
 

Huge opportunity in front of us to take a swing at changing that.

[ThatNFLChick]

11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yep. Signing a solid vet is actually the absolute worst thing to do as it guarantees you're stuck in purgatory. Take home run swings on high draft picks. If you hit, you have a window of 5 years minimum. If you miss, you try again in 2-3 years with what will be another high pick.

 

What you don't want is to be a team like the Saints where you're stuck picking somewhere in the middle because you invested in a guy like Derek Carr who isn't bad, but doesn't move the needle at all.

 

Saints might be a team who kicks the tires on Fields and lets him sit behind Carr for a season and learn the offense. 

[Warhead36]

Just now, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Saints might be a team who kicks the tires on Fields and lets him sit behind Carr for a season and learn the offense. 

What would be the point of that? You'd then have to pay Fields because his rookie deal runs out and then his value is trash.

[Skinsinparadise]

57 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Opinions on Bowers are a bit of a shibboleth for how closely draftniks actually followed college football the past few years to me.  He doesn't look the part of "greatest prospect in the history of his position." His ultra elite ceiling is totally obvious for anyone who watched a bunch of Georgia games over the last three years, but not for those who didn't.  So because of that, plus the low draft value of the TE position, I think there is some softness in his draft stock that isn't there for Nabers or Harrison Jr.

 

I've got him #3 overall on my board, and I believe he's been the best non QB in CFB the past two years.  And TBH, he might have been that by the end of his true freshman season when he was the best player on the field in the SEC CG.  If there is a chance to get him with our two seconds, I'm taking it for sure.  No hesitation.

 

Verse is almost in that same strata for me too.  Moving up for him would be akin to what the Texans did last year: starting a rebuild off by drafting the rookies of the year on both sides of the ball.

 

I haven't watched Verse yet, been focused on the edge rushers who can fall to the 2nd.

 

Yeah as to Bowers that's been my guy from the jump when it looked like we'd be picking in the top 10 but not the high part of the top 10.  I'd be giddy if they can land him. 

 

To your point, Bowers might not measure at the combine as a freak ala Pitts as for speed and at his size some knock him for that but as a player he's insane.  For those (including me) who loved Laporta in the last draft in part because he was a great seperator and was a YAC fiend -- Bowers as a prospect is a rich man's version of that.  My fav TE prospect that I've watched of all time.

[ThatNFLChick]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

What would be the point of that? You'd then have to pay Fields because his rookie deal runs out and then his value is trash.

 

Its no different than the Cowboys getting Lance and having him sit behind Dak. You do have to pay Fields so you would have to feel good about him and the progress he's made but the cost wouldn't be anything crazy. 

[ThatNFLChick]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

I think the reason that Peters (and other guys like Kingsbury) took this job was because we'll be able to draft Drake Maye.  That ability to start the entire build off with an elite QB prospect similar to what the Texans did last year was THE major selling point for the Commanders in accumulating all of this FO and coaching talent this offseason.

 

Draft media want an unpredictable draft, but at the end of the day the top of this draft is probably going to be super chalky.  Caleb Williams and Drake Maye have been one and two for nearly two years, and Jayden Daniels emerged as QB3 by Thanksgiving.  Maybe the Patriots do something weird, but that probably means a trade to either Atlanta or Oakland, who are moving up for Daniels.

 

This is what the Patriots OC said he wants in a QB a few years ago. He wants good footwork and accuracy...but I think they trade down regardless.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

I think the reason that Peters (and other guys like Kingsbury) took this job was because we'll be able to draft Drake Maye.  That ability to start the entire build off with an elite QB prospect similar to what the Texans did last year was THE major selling point for the Commanders in accumulating all of this FO and coaching talent this offseason.

 

Draft media want an unpredictable draft, but at the end of the day the top of this draft is probably going to be super chalky.  Caleb Williams and Drake Maye have been one and two for nearly two years, and Jayden Daniels emerged as QB3 by Thanksgiving.  Maybe the Patriots do something weird, but that probably means a trade to either Atlanta or Oakland, who are moving up for Daniels.

 

Listening to Jay Gruden talk about this current job, he echoed the point about picking #2 and getting a QB is everything.  Job would feel differently without that.  He's also in the camp that if you don't have a QB you dn't have a shot.  Not that I need to hear that point from him but he says it with so much angst it resonates even more with me when I hear that from him.

 

Listening to a WP reporter say recently that the locker room was dead after the Bears loss for the rest of the season and that Quinn is a breath of fresh air as to energy and enthusiasm in contrast was interesting for me to hear albiet not surprising.  But yeah agree the enthusiasm wouldn't be the same level if they weren't picking #2.

 

The upside of this past miserable season was landing that #2 pick and that can be a game changer for this franchise.

Edited February 20 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]