The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[88Comrade2000]

I know some were hoping Sam would be the guy but this team was the last team for him to succeed on.

 

Lame duck head coach , ****ty OC, ****ty o-line and ****ty defense.

 

Sam will be backup somewhere and maybe get another shot one day.

Edited December 25, 2023 by 88Comrade2000

[Skinsinparadise]

It's pretty funny

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Thinking about the 100 different ways I'll have to repackage the same point for the next 4 months that you can build a supporting cast for a QB with likely 100 million in cap room and likely the 35th pick, 40th or something like that, a high third round and another third and more.   

 

And even if you can't rebuild Rome in a day, you can make serious progress and then hopefully finish the job or come close and then hopefully the following off season finish the job

 

And these days it doesn't take forever to rebuild a team if you find that QB.

 

 

 

This reality exists in competent alternate worlds that Dan's regime didn't live in.  So it feels foreign.  But its really true.   Among other examples I've seen the Dolphins just do it.  And no I get the whole well that's the Dolphins of course they can do it as if they've always among other teams lived in these prosperous lands.  But they have not.  I used to joke with a friend of mine, big Dolphin fan about how Washington and theirs have lived the same football life seemingly forever.  The dungeon is escapable and if you have competent leadership it doesn't take forever -- even though Rivera, Shanny likes to convince otherwise. 

 

 

 This team has been run by punchlne front offices.  And yes it takes a toll.  It feels to us that it takes forever to change anything.  And it indeed does when there is no such thing as a big draft or FA class.   Heck we still talk about Beathard's big class from the early 80s as the franchise defining one.  But yes it can happen in modern times, too.  I get the cynicism about it here because it doesn't seem our reality.  But if you digest this era why would anyone bet it would happen here?

 

Dan was the village idiot.  Vinny Cerrato and Bruce Allen are league punchlines.  They wouldn't be able to get jobs these days as interns in a FO let alone run one.  Shanny's run in Denver was characterized as that the GM Shanny got the coach GM Shanny fired -- yet we gave him personnel control here.

 

Gibbs was a legendary HC but no personnel guy.  Heck I recall the article in the early 90s about how he felt Desmond Howard had no holes in his game and was can't miss.  Heck he goes to scout Carlos Rodgers and falls in love with Jason Campbell.   Some say the demise of the Redskins back in the 90s was brought by the depature of Beathard and Gibbs at that point was heavily involved with decisions with Casserly.

 

Rivera was a mediocre coach in Carolia and was given personnel control because who would work for Dan at that juncture without that type of control. And Ron sucked.

 

But none of this is some odd mystery.  When you don't even once hire a pedigreed GM and instead have clowns run the FO this is what you get. 

Edited December 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Redwards]

10 hours ago, Bacon said:

Welp. The Pats won and we're in line for Drake Maye. I would be on board if we didn't have a bottom 5 OL and a paucity of weapons. He would be coming to a poor situation.

We have plenty of draft picks and there is also FA.

 

Our first pick in the draft is NOT the entire draft, nor the only chance to fortify the line.  

 

If our new GM thinks one of the QBs within our reach in this draft gives us much more upside than Sam (and at this point, that should be all but assured), then it would be malpractice not to take that QB.  When you pick this high in a QB rich class and you have doubts about the incumbent, YOU PICK THE NEW QB and let them compete.  

 

The O line will be properly addressed with FA and our other picks.  It doesn't have to be a perfect line for a new QB, just one that won't ruin him.  This is a multi-year true rebuild incoming.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Redwards

[dyst]

That’s what happens when you hired Panthers and Lions retreads. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, Redwards said:

We have plenty of draft picks and there is also FA.

 

Our first pick in the draft is NOT the entire draft, nor the only chance to fortify the line.  

 

If our new GM thinks one of the QBs within our reach in this draft gives us much more upside then Sam (and at this point, that should be all but assured), then it would be malpractice not to take that QB.  When you pick this high in a QB rich class and you have doubts about the incumbent, YOU PICK THE NEW QB and let them compete.  

 

The O line will be properly addressed with FA and our other picks.  It doesn't have to be a perfect line for a new QB, just one that won't ruin him.  This is a multi-year true rebuild incoming.

 

I'd add how often do we pick top 3 if that holds?  We did in 2000 and then again in 2020.  So every 20 years or so. 

 

Some act like its no biggie to be in this spot.  We always pick here and we will be back there again.  But if you look at the stats and consider past is prologue, its not only wrong but also a laughable point. 

 

We got up that high for RG3 but we weren't organically there.  We had to trade the moon to get to that #2 spot.  But that's the other point I see from time to time which is how about we wait a year and trade the moon for a QB in 2025?  I say trade up because the odds are very low that they will be picking at the same spot again so its likely a trade up.

 

What are the odds that this team would have their worst back to back seasons in forever after having all that money in FA and draft picks?  This team was 8-8-1 as recent as 2022.  The idea that this is going to be the first go of back to back top 3 pick seasons -- is a wild assumption.  

 

My point is the odds are much greater that you will have to give an RG3 haul to trade up in 2025 for a draft that right now some believe is looming to be weak at QB. 

 

And some talk about the pragmatic way to do this is to do it that way.  To me that's crazy.  The idea of punt on an opportunity to get a top QB in a good QB draft without trading up while instead trading many picks to trade up in a likely weaker draft -- feels nuts to me.    

 

To me if we are playing the odds.

 

A.  Stay right where you are at in arguably a QB rich draft.

 

versus

 

B.  Take a chance on a draft that might not be good for QB and being boxed in to give away much future capital in a trade up

 

I am not embracing B just to take a LT early.  To like its like saying, the options are.

 

A.  Get potentially a great pizza at $14

 

B.  Punt on the pizza, buy one next year for $40 and the pizza isn't likely as good.

 

 

Edited December 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It's pretty funny

 

 

 

he hasn't even officially declared.

 

Like, I'm not in favor of going QB before improving the OL, but if he could manipulate his draft stock so he could play for us since he's local I might be for it.  The Bears could go for Harrison and Daniels at 5, the Pats go for Maye at 2 and we get him at 3 that'd be nice

56 minutes ago, Redwards said:

We have plenty of draft picks and there is also FA.

 

Our first pick in the draft is NOT the entire draft, nor the only chance to fortify the line.  

 

If our new GM thinks one of the QBs within our reach in this draft gives us much more upside then Sam (and at this point, that should be all but assured), then it would be malpractice not to take that QB.  When you pick this high in a QB rich class and you have doubts about the incumbent, YOU PICK THE NEW QB and let them compete.  

 

The O line will be properly addressed with FA and our other picks.  It doesn't have to be a perfect line for a new QB, just one that won't ruin him.  This is a multi-year true rebuild incoming.

unfortunately, as is often the case, what we need and what's available don't quite line up

[Daniel.redskins]

1 hour ago, Redwards said:

 

If our new GM thinks one of the QBs within our reach in this draft gives us much more upside then Sam (and at this point, that should be all but assured), then it would be malpractice not to take that QB.  When you pick this high in a QB rich class and you have doubts about the incumbent, YOU PICK THE NEW QB and let them compete.  

Howell definitely made it an easy decision. Now we can argue about Maye vs Daniels without the Howell hypotheticals. I highly doubt Williams slips past #1. 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

 

Like, I'm not in favor of going QB before improving the OL

 

Do you think they can't do both in an off season?

 

We've had good O lines before.  Actually it feels like torture under Ron because he dismantled the O line.  But if i had to pick one unit that has been mostly good during Dan's era its the O line.  Yet we sucked.

 

It would be hard to find anyone here who complained more about Ron's crap job on the O line than me.

 

But I got no doubt, we can build up this O line and yet struggle to find the QB and stink.  The reason why i got no doubt is we lived that movie for the past 25 years plus.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MrJL]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Do you think they can't do both in an off season?

 

We've had good O lines before.  Actually it feels like torture under Ron because he dismantled the O line.  But if i had to pick one unit that has been mostly good during Dan's era its the O line.  Yet we sucked.

 

It would be hard to find anyone here who complained more about Ron's crap job on the O line than me.

 

But I got no doubt, we can build up this O line and yet struggle to find the QB and stink.  The reason why i got no doubt is we lived that movie for the past 25 years plus.

 

I am not sure the quality is going to be available at the right places

[method man]

2 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

I am not sure the quality is going to be available at the right places

Given this is the deepest tackle draft ever, we are virtually guaranteed a first round caliber tackle with at least that first second round pick. We also have the resources in FA to go be high bidders for the likes of Connor Williams and Onwenu if we choose to do that…unless you have a ridiculous standard and you expect 5 All Pros as starters

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

I am not sure the quality is going to be available at the right places

 

No guarantees in any draft of course.  But if there is a draft that's set up for the kill for this team its this one in theory.   Deep at RT tackle and interior O line.  We got two early picks in the early 2nd which is typically the sweet spot for both positions.  FA isn't bad for the interior O line.

 

To me the O line in first or bust mindset is purely about replacing Leno.  LT is likely gone early.    I think we are fine with Leno at LT.  I'd want a RT and a LG, maybe center.  None of this is pipe dream territory without using the first pick.  A competent GM should be able to figure this out with relative ease.

 

If they don't go QB, I'd go Harrison Jr. if he's available.  I am not as lukewarm as some here are on Fashanu and Alt.  I like both players but neither are players I covet if they are picking top 4

 

 

The Athletic

 

 

Edited December 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[veteranskinsfan]

In terms of improving the offensive line we also need a well respected Oline coach.  For a while we had at least two or three really good oline coaches.  I can't even tell 

you the name of the current oline coach.  Yes, you need talented offensive line players but you also know we need some guy who can kick them when necessary and

teach them how to mesh as a cohesive unit.

[RWJ]

59 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

No guarantees in any draft of course.  But if there is a draft that's set up for the kill for this team its this one in theory.   Deep at RT tackle and interior O line.  We got two early picks in the early 2nd which is typically the sweet spot for both positions.  FA isn't bad for the interior O line.

 

To me the O line in first or bust mindset is purely about replacing Leno.  LT is likely gone early.    I think we are fine with Leno at LT.  I'd want a RT and a LG, maybe center.  None of this is pipe dream territory without using the first pick.  A competent GM should be able to figure this out with relative ease.

 

If they don't go QB, I'd go Harrison Jr. if he's available.  I am not as lukewarm as some here are on Fashanu and Alt.  I like both players but neither are players I covet if they are picking top 4

 

 

The Athletic

 

 

Not a JJ McCarthy fan.  He's a early second rounder to me.  Other than that, spot on.   

[clskinsfan]

13 hours ago, MrJL said:

how many want to move on from Howell immediately

It is about draft position. We have it and need to use it properly.

[wit33]

Whoever Bill Belichick wants to draft is good with me. 
 

If he wants to employ Greg Roman and develop a young dynamic athlete at the QB spot, I wouldn’t be mad at him. It can be in form of Jayden Daniels or a trade for Fields/Murray and draft Harrison Jr or a premiere LT. 
 

How to escape mediocrity 

[GoDeep81]

12 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

Here is the Howell bus after today:

 

That ****'ll buff out! 

[CobraCommander]

We broke another players confidence and think it’s funny. I really hope we hire a competent GM.

[wit33]

11 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

We broke another players confidence and think it’s funny. I really hope we hire a competent GM.

Jacoby Brisset might secure himself an opportunity at a starting spot next year for another team within the same environment. 
 

Sam Howell will forever be grateful to this staff. True story. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

4 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

I know some were hoping Sam would be the guy but this team was the last team for him to succeed on.

 

Lame duck head coach , ****ty OC, ****ty o-line and ****ty defense.

 

Sam will be backup somewhere and maybe get another shot one day.

He will be the next version of Baker, Jameis, Minshew, Heinicke. 
 

He’ll be a backup for a bit, play well in relief, and might even take a team to a wild card one season. He’ll be a beloved player in every city and on social media because above all else, he’s a never boring underdog. 

[Hogs86]

_{Just about every good QB  Rookie or veteran will hit a bad patch at sometime or another.  Do you give up already on Howell usually you will see a big jump in year two. Quote from Jacoby Brissett: I hope Sam Howell leans on me to help him through this. “I told him ‘This is going to be the hardest part of your career right now. It’s going to feel like you’re in this by yourself. It’s snowballing. It’s one thing after another, it’s one thing after another,’” Brissett said at his postgame press conference. “But I know from being in this league, man, the good ones find a way to get to the other side. No matter how long it takes, how hard it is. You surround yourself with good people. I hope he leans on me as one of those good people that will help him get through this because I know I will.”}

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

Not a JJ McCarthy fan.  He's a early second rounder to me.  Other than that, spot on.   

 

that's part of why I have issue with QB drafting.  When we started talking about it drafting a QB this guy McCarthy was not one of th people anyone was suggesting

[Wyvern]

Sorry, BraveontheWarpath93, but you're a little too quick to make that final assessment.  Perhaps with different coaching or more balanced play-schemes, or better O-lines, Howell might develop into a decent QB.  I happen to think that Washington has one of the worst records in developing the few talented players they were able to draft.

 

I just hope Bieniemy's desire for flashy passing numbers to pad his resume, didn't "Ramsey" Howell's development.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

24 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

Sorry, BraveontheWarpath93, but you're a little too quick to make that final assessment.  Perhaps with different coaching or more balanced play-schemes, or better O-lines, Howell might develop into a decent QB.  I happen to think that Washington has one of the worst records in developing the few talented players they were able to draft.

 

I just hope Bieniemy's desire for flashy passing numbers to pad his resume, didn't "Ramsey" Howell's development.

I mean he’d have to develop a lot to reach that ceiling I was talking about. 

[skinsfan66]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Thinking about the 100 different ways I'll have to repackage the same point for the next 4 months that you can build a supporting cast for a QB with likely 100 million in cap room and likely the 35th pick, 40th or something like that, a high third round and another third and more.   

 

And even if you can't rebuild Rome in a day, you can make serious progress and then hopefully finish the job or come close and then hopefully the following off season finish the job

 

And these days it doesn't take forever to rebuild a team if you find that QB.

 

 

 

This reality exists in competent alternate worlds that Dan's regime didn't live in.  So it feels foreign.  But its really true.   Among other examples I've seen the Dolphins just do it.  And no I get the whole well that's the Dolphins of course they can do it as if they've always among other teams lived in these prosperous lands.  But they have not.  I used to joke with a friend of mine, big Dolphin fan about how Washington and theirs have lived the same football life seemingly forever.  The dungeon is escapable and if you have competent leadership it doesn't take forever -- even though Rivera, Shanny likes to convince otherwise. 

 

 

 This team has been run by punchlne front offices.  And yes it takes a toll.  It feels to us that it takes forever to change anything.  And it indeed does when there is no such thing as a big draft or FA class.   Heck we still talk about Beathard's big class from the early 80s as the franchise defining one.  But yes it can happen in modern times, too.  I get the cynicism about it here because it doesn't seem our reality.  But if you digest this era why would anyone bet it would happen here?

 

Dan was the village idiot.  Vinny Cerrato and Bruce Allen are league punchlines.  They wouldn't be able to get jobs these days as interns in a FO let alone run one.  Shanny's run in Denver was characterized as that the GM Shanny got the coach GM Shanny fired -- yet we gave him personnel control here.

 

Gibbs was a legendary HC but no personnel guy.  Heck I recall the article in the early 90s about how he felt Desmond Howard had no holes in his game and was can't miss.  Heck he goes to scout Carlos Rodgers and falls in love with Jason Campbell.   Some say the demise of the Redskins back in the 90s was brought by the depature of Beathard and Gibbs at that point was heavily involved with decisions with Casserly.

 

Rivera was a mediocre coach in Carolia and was given personnel control because who would work for Dan at that juncture without that type of control. And Ron sucked.

 

But none of this is some odd mystery.  When you don't even once hire a pedigreed GM and instead have clowns run the FO this is what you get. 

Beathard is in the HOF because he could build a team. His build mostly was the from the Draft always trading down to find sleepers, FA's from USFL, traded for his QB Joe T. while in Washington and others that was his way. Jack K. left him alone and because they were the experts which is the opposite of Snyder.

 

Some builds recently with or without succeeding starting with those 4 and top QB's.

Lions, Mattew S. went on to win a SB with LA, he had no team around him with the lions for years or coaches, then they went and built a team around the QB that was busting with LA.  

The Dolphins brought in players T.Hill,Mosert, Coach and others and built around Top QB Tua, who was on his way to busting.  Finally beat a team with a winning record. Future looks good.

The Jaguars have not turned the corner, Top QB Lawrence is playing like his rookie year all over and on a downward spiral (no OL? over paid for a average RG). And brought in other talent.  8/8 after hot start and going other way.

The Bengals have their Top QB but he has injuries that keep him off the field to often. Won 5 games so far with maybe best trio of WR's in the league.

The Bears how many games won with a Top QB fields and no others? Added top WR, D and others... Playing better but Is he on his way out for Caleb?

The Eagles D is not letting them win. And a top OF and QB cannot overcome it at the moment and look like they are fading.

The 49er's build there team and look like the front runners for SB with the last pick of his draft QB.

The other front runner Ravens have a top D,K and the QB has carried the OF.

The Bills and Allen trying to get there after shakey start after adding pieces to the puzzle.

The Panthers fired their coach after having picked the no.1 and QB in the draft and now they have no no.1 pick this year.

The Chiefs should they have traded T.Hill? But with Mahomes can never be counted out. Most likely replace and could improve any team above. 

 

*How come Caleb and USC could not win anymore then 7games this season with the anointed best QB.  And got their buts kicked in the cotton bowl last year by Tulane whose QB is a later rd. pick? The next Mahomes, they do not come along very often? Who ever picks him

  

**There is no real or certain way to build a top level team. A top QB helps but without the right rebuild? It is going to be the most important move by the new owners to pick the right Coach and Talent evaluators who have a correct vision no matter which way they go.