The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Warhead36]

9 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

We don't.  We had a lead for most of the first half yesterday and still refused to run.  The OL giving up lots of pressure and the defense struggling are tied to the extremely unbalanced and uncomplimentary way our offense is called.  The OLs are in true pass sets where there is no real chance at fooling the defense at the most extreme rate in the NFL.  And the offense is so inefficient and incapable of building leads and controlling the clock and momentum that the defense always seems to be on its heels.

 

This unmethodical, live by the big play die by the big play offense we run just isn't good.  Reminds me of the Andy Reid system from his Philly years when they weren't good and didn't have overwhelming talent like he's had in KC.  It's the worst version of the system and it has and will continue to lead to losses.  But it will also force through two years of passing attempts and coverage looks for Sam, so from a QB developmental perspective, there is some benefit.  Except that it's likely to get everyone coaching him fired.

We aren't a good running team and most of our passes are short quick passes which are basically run plays.

 

We aren't really a live by the big play die by the big play offense anymore. Its a lot more quick passes. Unfortunately our WRs weren't beating man coverage yesterday. We had three drives end on 3rd and 4 or less. You have to convert those to sustain drives. That's where we lost the game(that and our defense sucking).

[FootballZombie]

14 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Reminds me of the Andy Reid system from his Philly years when they weren't good and didn't have overwhelming talent like he's had in KC. 

 

It reminds me a lot more of Chip Kelly in Philly.

Not because of the style of O, but moreso because it ultra focuses on one aspect so hard that it has widespread consequences on the other aspects of the O and the team as whole.

 

For Chip it was all about play speed. Dude was dead set on getting as many plays as possible, and in his time in Philly he produced some of the highest YPG totals in the NFL. But those stats came at a significant cost.

 

With EB we don't just throw the ball a lot. We do so to a ridiculous degree. and that has sprawling consequences.

-LBs n DBs don't have to play the run and focus on the pass. Thus its harder for our guys to get open

-Opposing D line gets to fire off the ball every play. More sacks.

-WRs need more blow. They are running miles of routes and get no plays off cuz we are calling 50 pass plays a game

-Olinemen are stuck being reactionary. They rarely get to impose their will

-Makes us constantly run outta unfavorable pass sets when we do choose to use it. Kills YPA and feeds the cycle

 

Dude has himself an angle and he is determined to ride it. Consequences be darned.

[CapsSkins]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He IMO is the team.  He's their best chance every game.  

 

 

 

Him and Tress, that is. 😉

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He IMO is the team.  He's their best chance every game.  

 

 

 

Him and Tress, that is. 😉

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

 

It reminds me a lot more of Chip Kelly in Philly.

Not because of the style of O, but moreso because it ultra focuses on one aspect so hard that it has widespread consequences on the other aspects of the O and the team as whole.

 

For Chip it was all about play speed. Dude was dead set on getting as many plays as possible, and in his time in Philly he produced some of the highest YPG totals in the NFL. But those stats came at a significant cost.

 

With EB we don't just throw the ball a lot. We do so to a ridiculous degree. and that has sprawling consequences.

-LBs n DBs don't have to play the run and focus on the pass. Thus its harder for our guys to get open

-Opposing D line gets to fire off the ball every play. More sacks.

-WRs need more blow. They are running miles of routes and get no plays off cuz we are calling 50 pass plays a game

-Olinemen are stuck being reactionary. They rarely get to impose their will

-Makes us constantly run outta unfavorable pass sets when we do choose to use it. Kills YPA and feeds the cycle

 

Dude has himself an angle and he is determined to ride it. Consequences be darned.

 

Agree to some extent.  I don't mind a pass happy offense but this version of it is to an extreme that no doubt taxes the O line and defense.

 

Don't get me wrong I do believe that this offensive line and defense are genuinely bad.   But I do think this offense makes both units look worse.

 

It's part of the reason why i am not in the camp of wanting him as the next HC.  

Edited November 13, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Stone Cold]

It’s really time for us to start talking like Sammy Franchise is gonna be our QB for the next 10 seasons.  No more is he the guy.  I hope the new GM and HC love this kid as much as I do.  
 

Sammy Franchise….that’s my QB

[Dark Acre]

3 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

a tough hombre Jag in Brian Robinson, who isn't bad, he's just not remotely special.

Dude got shot in the leg during last preseason and came back a couple months later.  True, that's "tough hombre" but it's also remotely special.  Maybe not in-your-face special, but certainly remotely.  And, frankly, I think he's better in the passing game than Gibson.  I'd rather Robinson get the ball on a screen or something around the LOS than Gibson.  Like all the other skill positions on O, give him a real OL.  

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

These ain't 4th Q garbage-time stats either.  

[redskinss]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He IMO is the team.  He's their best chance every game.  

 

 

I benched lamar Jackson this week and started Howell and it paid off nicely.

Im looking to trade Jackson now before the deadline.

[MartinC]

Stroud is clearly playing at a really high level and is on a trajectory to be right up there with the best QBs in the league. However part of the reason why is below.

 

"The Texans are one of the best teams in the league at protecting the quarterback (19 sacks allowed)".

[redskin301]

Lets build the kid a oline he looks like the real deal

[Est.1974]

Howell continues to impress. I really hope we load up with young talent in the draft on offense.

[Ball Security]

18 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Stroud is clearly playing at a really high level and is on a trajectory to be right up there with the best QBs in the league. However part of the reason why is below.

 

"The Texans are one of the best teams in the league at protecting the quarterback (19 sacks allowed)".

His 0.6 Int% really stands out.

[method man]

36 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Stroud is clearly playing at a really high level and is on a trajectory to be right up there with the best QBs in the league. However part of the reason why is below.

 

"The Texans are one of the best teams in the league at protecting the quarterback (19 sacks allowed)".

Their OL talent is not much better than ours. Tunsil and their starting RT have both missed a number of games this year. They’ve played mainly with a makeshift OL. Stroud just gets rid of the ball quicker and they have schemed it up on the season as a whole better than EB has when it comes to pass pro

[The Consigliere]

51 minutes ago, Dark Acre said:

Dude got shot in the leg during last preseason and came back a couple months later.  True, that's "tough hombre" but it's also remotely special.  Maybe not in-your-face special, but certainly remotely.  And, frankly, I think he's better in the passing game than Gibson.  I'd rather Robinson get the ball on a screen or something around the LOS than Gibson.  Like all the other skill positions on O, give him a real OL.  

These ain't 4th Q garbage-time stats either.  

 

The quality of coming back from what he came back from is why I made that reference, but being shot, and able to recover and play is not something that suddenly makes someone a special athlete, it is what it is, it just means your tough, and perhaps, you've got that "skill" some people call "availability" like, the anti-Swift. But he's not a "special" athlete. 

 

Interestingly, the one thing he tested quite fine with is speed, his speed score is around 85th percentile considering his size, 70th when not adjusted for size. But he was god awful at the explosion and agility drills finishing 15th and 8th percentile in those metrics and you can see that on the field. There's Achane's and Swifts, and then another tier, and another, and then there's the Robinson's of the world. He's a guy you can plug in, and he's fine, adequate, but he's not making a difference. When you look around, if you want a difference maker I can point them all out pretty easy and the good news is they come cheap at RB w/only a few exceptions. I don't know what convinced Atlanta and Detroit to pull the trigger way too early at RB when you could've gotten just as special production from guys like Hall, Walker, Taylor, Etienne in '22 and '21 or '20. 

 

I don't have an issue keeping him around until his contract wraps after the '25 season, but he isn't someone whose a genuine, transformative weapon and there are a lot of those guys around. Fortunately, or unfortunately the '24 rb class is pretty --- in terms of top end guys. Maybe 2 or 3 that will go in round 2, but none anyone will pull the trigger on in the 1st (if they're sane), the FA class has been derailed by injuries and you shouldn't buy RB declines anyway with the RB age cliff at age 26. To my mind, we ride or die with Robinson unless we can nab Braelon Allen on day 2 or one of those handful of guys, there's a chunk of them, maybe 2-3 top guys, and a couple that are interesting after, but yeah, I'd build out the OL and work on the D this draft, definitely study the WR class because it's legit too, leave RB alone entirely in free agency. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

Stroud is clearly playing at a really high level and is on a trajectory to be right up there with the best QBs in the league. However part of the reason why is below.

 

"The Texans are one of the best teams in the league at protecting the quarterback (19 sacks allowed)".

 

We see it in some of our opponents where their QBs have clean pockets, all day to throw.  It's rare for Sam to have that.  If he had a good O line, his game likely goes a peg higher. 

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, redskinss said:

I benched lamar Jackson this week and started Howell and it paid off nicely.

Im looking to trade Jackson now before the deadline.

Of my 5 superflex dynasty leagues, I've got Howell on all 5. I thought it was genius, funny how memory looks, but more, dedicated planning and luck. I drafted him on 1 team, an RSO contract league, and then in the other 4 leagues, I stealthily picked him up in the summer and early fall of '22 before any rumors were likely to pick up of him getting a late season start. By the time he finally did, I had him on all 2QB/superflex dynasty leagues and about half of my 1QB dynasty leagues. A rare instance in which getting a redskin/WFT/Commander paid off handsomely. 

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

Stroud is clearly playing at a really high level and is on a trajectory to be right up there with the best QBs in the league. However part of the reason why is below.

 

"The Texans are one of the best teams in the league at protecting the quarterback (19 sacks allowed)".

Stroud is a part of that lack of sacks though as well. He is an excellent scrambler and runner when he needs to be. Also they have a legit running game as well. Hell Devin Singletary ran for 150 yards yesterday.

Edited November 13, 2023 by clskinsfan

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I saw Stroud throw an out route (to the opposite hash) on third and long with the pocket caving in around him immediately. Ball was perfectly placed. WR grabbed it and toe tapped right at the sticks. It was the kinda throw that makes you take notice. That kid is really something.

 

I do dream of a day when Sam can step up into a clean pocket and really let it rip. 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Jay also said you don't have to have EB next year. It is nice to have but Howell will be able to work with a different OC as well. I can see that. He went from Turner to EB and looks like he didn't miss a beat. 

 

Earlier in the show Grant was saying that your D doesn't have to be really good and they can be on the bottom but your O has to be really good. The picks they spent on the D were wasted and in today's NFL you need to have a better O. I can see that. Build your O as a power house and your D just needs to do enough. Hell I would have been happy with a top 20 D if Ron had spend more on the O line this offseason to help out a young rookie. Didn't even have to be a top 5. Top 15 would have been nice and the way Sam is playing that is all we really needed this year anyway. 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by zCommander

[SkinsGuy]

2 hours ago, redskinss said:

I benched lamar Jackson this week and started Howell and it paid off nicely.

Im looking to trade Jackson now before the deadline.

 

I benched Lamar Jackson this week and started Dak Prescott and it REALLY paid off.

 

I have mixed feelings about that. 😒 

[The Consigliere]

44 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I saw Stroud throw an out route (to the opposite hash) on third and long with the pocket caving in around him immediately. Ball was perfectly placed. WR grabbed it and toe tapped right at the sticks. It was the kinda throw that makes you take notice. That kid is really something.

 

I do dream of a day when Sam can step up into a clean pocket and really let it rip. 

 

 

I look at Stroud and wonder, in frustration, about what it means about that new QB processing test. Is he just an outlier, like there always are, "the exception that proves the rule," kinda like I see McLaurin? Or is he a sign that the test is nonsense? That it missed something fundamental with Stroud because honestly, no matter what, that test did not capture what Stroud can do, AT ALL. Major bummer. Nothing's ever perfect, but missing this badly on a guy is a problem. And man, the Bryce Young angle is particularly bad. Hopeless is probably the wrong word, the guy has no help AT ALL on that team, but still, they look worlds apart now in the big leagues, and both teams have major roster issues on offense, but one is succeeding inspite of that, and the other most definitely is not. 

[RandyHolt]

The NextGen stat I saw today bares bears repeating: Howell completed more passes on the run this week, than any QB had all year. The name of the game is getting pressure on QBs.  A QB that doesn't need 91 Skins grade pass pro? Watch out.

 

I'll be the salmon that said we may not need to use all our top picks on OL. Sure we need a LT longer term but recognition our OL sucks and scrapping the game plan that requires perfect pass pro involves swallowing of major pride or.... telling the GM you suck.

 

When I heard Sam was studying Mahomes and then saw a sidearm throw in preseason, and then the TD pass to BRob week 1, I knew it was game on.

Edited November 13, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Conn]

 

[Brown43]

4 hours ago, Stone Cold said:

It’s really time for us to start talking like Sammy Franchise is gonna be our QB for the next 10 seasons.  No more is he the guy.  I hope the new GM and HC love this kid as much as I do.  
 

Sammy Franchise….that’s my QB

I'm with you.  If he was a higher draft pick people would be singing his praises but you have those lazy so called evaluators that look at the draft status instead of what gets put on film.

[Chris 44]

6 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Him and Tress, that is. 😉

 

Him and Tress, that is. 😉

You can say that again.