The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think he's still doing that show in Milwaukee, he used it as an excuse to become a Packers fan now.    He was back then a diehard fan, though hated Dan, and also hated the idea of ever changing the name.

He also has a podcast, the CzabeCast.  I don’t listen.  I was never a huge fan, though he and Polin had great chemistry.  

[skinsfan66]

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

@HigSkin I know put most of this out there already but in case this adds anything.  Listened to Keim's appearance on the junkies.

 

A.  they are genuinely into Howell

B.  He thinks its Howell and a cheap veteran to compete with him and that could be Heinicke

C.  He thinks even if they are more ambitious than that he believes Dan selling will weigh in on this where they likely wouldn't want to spend big on a QB

D.  Doubled down they want to improve the O line and secondary

 

Listened then to Keim on Bram's show.

 

A.  Doubled down that they liked him before the draft and liked that they saw some of what they liked about him in college in his debut NFL game

B.  He senses the FO wants to invest in players around the QB versus investing a lot of money in the QB.

C.  Mentioned wanting to keep Payne

D.  Doesn't think they would use a first round pick on a QB

E.  Building the O line, add to the secondary, mentioned adding a RB -- alluding McKissic might be gone

F.  They were jazzed that Howell hit the receivers on time and in stride which helps their playmakers get YAC

G.  They seem convinced that if they beef the O line and improve the coordinator spot, it will make a major difference

H.  Mentioned the Saints build a line that factored Brees height -- implying the same can be done for Howell.  I gather that means shorter interior guys?

I love this team plan, Go cheap on QB, build Oline, add All purpose RB, sign your own Players (Payne, Sweat,.....) Keep Taylor on cheap, draft another rd. 3 and down QB on a rookie contract. Add the back that can take it to the house and be a good receiver to move the chains. NFC east teams all have them 2 backs. We have a chance to draft one. Howell needs the build around him.  Add a TE that can block and help in Redzone short yardage.  Redo OL.  Sign the D players go with them and take care of Offense first in draft or what ever FA values you can find .  

[SmallDaddy]

I'm all in on Sam (not necessarily as a true franchise QB but at minimum a good competent one) and have been since before the draft. However, we are setting him up for failure (as this team always does). There is >99% chance we will have a whole new coaching staff in 2024 so Sam will have 3 OCs in 3years. Even the best QBs need stability in their systems. Unfortunately,  we are going to ruin his career.  

[skinsfan66]

57 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 Could be so.  I'd rather have Brissett or Datlon but Heinous might be cheaper.  Dan was cheap enough during the last off season when he was the owner.  Add by the way Chris Russell to the pile who said yesterday he heard Dan's been having cash flow issues for quite some time and has not had the cash flow that many other owners have had to spend. 

 

Now compound that with him supposedly selling where bankers tend to prefer to keep things status quo as for the books for prospective buyers -- I think they end up doing hardly anything.  Rivera already referenced the word "budget".  It's another reason why discussing Brady, Carr, Lamar or whomever is likely a waste of time.  

 

While its annoying if we do nothing, I'd take any circumstance to get rid of Dan and heck even if he were still in charge I'd doubt we'd be doing a heck of a lot anyway especially with him having to pay out of pocket in that case for a 3 billion dollar stadium.  

No way would I want Dalton or Brissett they are Backups that do not fit, also they would be 10+ mil/yr guess? to bring here, second that takes away money to keep our own players, third they are very different type QB's than Howell. Howell is going to have to use his feet in the NFL these days and plays should be designed to take care of that, that's why Taylor fits as the back up. New O coach should fit them too.  

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

I love this team plan, Go cheap on QB, build Oline, add All purpose RB, sign your own Players (Payne, Sweat,.....) Keep Taylor on cheap, draft another rd. 3 and down QB on a rookie contract. Add the back that can take it to the house and be a good receiver to move the chains. NFC east teams all have them 2 backs. We have a chance to draft one. Howell needs the build around him.  Add a TE that can block and help in Redzone short yardage.  Redo OL.  Sign the D players go with them and take care of Offense first in draft or what ever FA values you can find .  

 

Yeah I am good with it, too.  I am optimistic too that they can win with it next season, I am not in the camp of expecting them to step back or treading water next season.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

No way would I want Dalton or Brissett they are Backups that do not fit, also they would be 10+ mil/yr guess? to bring here, second that takes away money to keep our own players, third they are very different type QB's than Howell. Howell is going to have to use his feet in the NFL these days and plays should be designed to take care of that, that's why Taylor fits as the back up. New O coach should fit them too.  

[REDACTED] doesn’t use his legs, either.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

No way would I want Dalton or Brissett they are Backups that do not fit, also they would be 10+ mil/yr guess? to bring here, second that takes away money to keep our own players, third they are very different type QB's than Howell. Howell is going to have to use his feet in the NFL these days and plays should be designed to take care of that, that's why Taylor fits as the back up. New O coach should fit them too.  

 

Whether Dalton, Brissett or whomever the idea is cheap.  You are predicting they won't be cheap.    For me, hard call.  There are enough QBs on the market which can bring the prices down.  Last year, some veterans like they got more than we expected, some got less.  For a decent backup these days, the range seems to be somewhere in the 5-8 million. 

 

Not sure what you are driving at about running?  Because Howell runs you'd want a good backup in case of injury or you'd want a backup who likewise could run.

 

As for running, Brissett would fit that style of play.  Heinicke would not.   If they plan to bring more RPO to the offense as some suspect considering some of the coordinators they are considering -- Heinicke wouldn't fit that well. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

Our "veteran mentor backup" will have to be someone who can run so that probably rules out guys like Dalton and Brissett. 

 

I think Mariota could be an option but the fact that he basically walked out on his team after being benched doesn't exactly serve as a ringing endorsement.

[skinsfan66]

46 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Having a celebrity back up is fine if your starter is good. People in Philly were calling for Minshew to be the eagles QB in the preseason and Hurts shut it down.

I agree Howell will be the QB if he wins the job with design they want to run. and the backs ups need to be at least capable of running that style too. Wentz did not fit or Taylor did not fit. Cannot see Dalton or that type being a fit with Howell if they build around him. Dalton is Wentz with a better line in front of him. 

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I do think Sheehan has a great show so I'll preface it with that.  But man as a dude with takes, he's all over the place at times.

 

Zigs and zags I agree.  Giants were going to be really good 2 years back before that season, then they weren't and he didn't mention again that he thought highly about them before that season, like it never happened.   Instead he reminded people that he liked the Eagles and that he was right about that.  This season he didn't think the Giants would be good.  Even late into the season he thought this team was better than the Giants.  But a few days ago he takes a U-turn and says the Giants are better than Washington and will be better next year, too.

 

Once again, I didn't know this was you but talk about Sheehan brought me to reply. I don't despise Sheehan but I feel like he's a slimy dude. What do I mean by that? I feel like he has hidden agendas that he doesn't talk about on his show. Maybe its gambling / predictions / smell test related, maybe its based on his contacts, but there always seems to be some unwritten narrative thats going on behind the scenes. Even now I'm kinda avoiding listening to him because I wonder if he is going to say that the Turner not liking Wentz stuff is what he was hearing way back when and thats part of the reason why he didn't like him. I don't know because I haven't listened to him. The other thing is that his guys are HIS GUYS. He doesn't go against a Cousins or a Shanahan no matter what. He liked Turg and would defend him til the end of time. Then dude up and quits and all of a sudden its like you did this. 

 

Now he's anti-Howell. Not saying that Howell is a bad QB but that he's not thinking that we should go into the season with him as our number 1. I listened to the segment with Galdi and him and it was like they were going in opposite directions Galdi wanting Howell and Sheehan wanting a vet like Carr even though he didn't like Carr (his words, I don't have the tapes). And he's stressing the 19 attempts and the reports of him being unprepared but ignoring everything else. Its what makes me feel like he's not telling everything he knows or he secretly has a bet against Howell being a good QB. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The range of points on next season as i mentioned don't add up that neatly.  He doesn't think much of Heinicke.  He likes this roster.  Yet he expects a down year next year with a new QB and a season of upgrades?

 

As for Rivera I think he's been somewhat consistent.  Decent coach -- but not a great coach.  The best coach that Dan can land.  Good person.  He tends to defend him when people take shots at him, he likes to say to callers you think he's a bad coach, I do not.  But yeah Rivera is going to pale to anything Shanahan related.  He was so pro Mike Shanahan when he was here, Czabe would joke about it, and ultimately Sheehan became friends with Mike Shanahan.  He'd build a shrine to Mike and Kyle if he could.  

 

I do though like listening to Sheehan in spite of that stuff.  IMO he's a legend as far as covering this team and DC radio.  I like him over the Junkies because IMO the Junkies depart too much off of sports and when they do talk sports the Junkies IMO are below average as to being informed.  I don't always agree with Sheehan but IMO he's informed and I like his genuine passion for sports -- the Junkies to me don't come off as dudes who love sports.

 

[skinsfan66]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Whether Dalton, Brissett or whomever the idea is cheap.  You are predicting they won't be cheap.    For me, hard call.  There are enough QBs on the market which can bring the prices down.  Last year, some veterans like they got more than we expected, some got less.  For a decent backup these days, the range seems to be somewhere in the 5-8 million. 

 

Not sure what you are driving at about running?  Because Howell runs you'd want a good backup in case of injury or you'd want a backup who likewise could run.

 

As for running, Brissett would fit that style of play.  Heinicke would not.   If they plan to bring more RPO to the offense as some suspect considering some of the coordinators they are considering -- Heinicke wouldn't fit that well. 

Dalton is a starter or has been most of the year, not coming cheap at 5mil, Brissett is not leaving for 5mil. Taylor 5mil most likely. ? I maybe wrong but you maybe too. Dalton is Wentz jr, has no feet does not fit.  Brissett fits better but $ and no better than Taylor if he played here the last 3 years is my opinion. I disagree and Taylor is the better fit with Howell at that price.  5 mil back up is what we need. 

[Warhead36]

Sheehan is a fan like most of us. And like most of us he has strange hills he's willing to die on. Dude was the biggest Sam Darnold stan I've ever seen, but people forget there were fans on this forum that refused to believe Dewey Haskins was anything less than a franchise QB. 

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Dalton is a starter or has been most of the year, not coming cheap at 5mil, Brissett is not leaving for 5mil. Taylor 5mil most likely. ? I maybe wrong but you maybe too. Dalton is Wentz jr, has no feet does not fit.  Brissett fits better but $ and no better than Taylor if he played here the last 3 years is my opinion. I disagree and Taylor is the better fit with Howell at that price.  5 mil back up is what we need. 

 

Dalton was the starter but that wasn't the intention, the intention was Winston.  He had a good year by his standards but at 35 tough for me to see some team making him the starter, its possible though.  Heinicke by the same logic is also a starter and should command starter money and or a starter spot.

 

I am not losing sleep if it comes to 5, 6, 7, 8 million.  I'd want someone in that range.

 

I think what works against the Daltons, Brissetts, getting a starter spot and bigger money, etc is that while there isn't a menu of good QBs on the market there seems to be enough to cover teams needs between:  Lamar, Brady, Carr, Jimmy G.  And more on point there is a slew of veteran backup types on the market who might be able to start in a pinch in the mix.  So I am guessing like last year some will get more than we expected, same will get less, some will get what we predict.  You got to play the market and see what happens.  Personally, I am not locked into anyone, but of the choices Heinicke is close to the bottom of my list.

 

As far as Brissett = Heinicke as far as his play.

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

He Who Must Not Be Named only fit here because he was familiar with Turner's offense. That was his main selling point. Now he doesn't have that. I guess it would be ok to bring him back if he's really cheap. Otherwise IMO it could be a distraction because as soon as Howell has a bad game fans of He Who Must Not Be Named would immediately be screaming for him. Better to go with someone else if possible. 

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

Even now I'm kinda avoiding listening to him because I wonder if he is going to say that the Turner not liking Wentz stuff is what he was hearing way back when and thats part of the reason why he didn't like him. I don't know because I haven't listened to him. The other thing is that his guys are HIS GUYS. He doesn't go against a Cousins or a Shanahan no matter what. He liked Turg and would defend him til the end of time. Then dude up and quits and all of a sudden its like you did this. 

 

Now he's anti-Howell. Not saying that Howell is a bad QB but that he's not thinking that we should go into the season with him as our number 1. I listened to the segment with Galdi and him and it was like they were going in opposite directions Galdi wanting Howell and Sheehan wanting a vet like Carr even though he didn't like Carr (his words, I don't have the tapes). And he's stressing the 19 attempts and the reports of him being unprepared but ignoring everything else. Its what makes me feel like he's not telling everything he knows or he secretly has a bet against Howell being a good QB. 

 

 

 

 

With Sheehan, some of the pro RG3, anti-Kirk, anti-Shanny group, don't love him because he was really forceful working points on that subject.  I always though I was an odd duck compared to most here on the subject -- I was pro RG3 but I didn't die on that hill, eventually I bailed.  I was pro Shanny but then turned anti -- not because of RG3 but because of the defense. 

 

And I was one of the rare pro RG3 and pro Kirk dudes at the time.  But yeah I noticed Sheehan built some resentment with the RG3-Kirk run.  As did Grant Paulsen.  And both dudes could be very opinonated.  Not saying that's the case with you, I don't know.  But I did see Sheehan's enemy list grow during that period. . What annoyed me about Sheehan then was his pro Shanny stances.  To each their own but to me he comes off nauseating on the point, so over the top.  Sheehan is right that Kyle wasn't appreciated when he was here.  And I personally was OK with Kyle then and now, back and forth at times but mostly positive on him.  And Kyle is certainly good at his job but the walk on water narrative is way over the top.  If SF wins a SB, Sheehan will be insufferable on the subject.

 

 I haven't listened to Sheehan on Galdi, I'll check that out.   On his own show he doesn't seem anti-Howell.  He thinks he has a shot.  But he is convinced that unless of couurse you have Kyle running an offense, you have no shot to be good in season 1 of a young QB. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

 

Even being broke is not a good enough excuse to sign a QB who is that terrible.

[veteranskinsfan]

I listen to Al Galdi podcast. But he has it on super fast speech speed I guess so he can fit it all in within the time frame he has to deal with every day.  I wonder what else he

is doing these days.  Did he get another radio gig?

[Thinking Skins]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

With Sheehan, some of the pro RG3, anti-Kirk, anti-Shanny group, don't love him because he was really forceful working points on that subject.  I always though I was an odd duck compared to most here on the subject -- I was pro RG3 but I didn't die on that hill, eventually I bailed.  I was pro Shanny but then turned anti -- not because of RG3 but because of the defense. 

 

And I was one of the rare pro RG3 and pro Kirk dudes at the time.  But yeah I noticed Sheehan built some resentment with the RG3-Kirk run.  As did Grant Paulsen.  And both dudes could be very opinonated.  Not saying that's the case with you, I don't know.  But I did see Sheehan's enemy list grow during that period. . What annoyed me about Sheehan then was his pro Shanny stances.  To each their own but to me he comes off nauseating on the point, so over the top.  Sheehan is right that Kyle wasn't appreciated when he was here.  And I personally was OK with Kyle then and now, back and forth at times but mostly positive on him.  And Kyle is certainly good at his job but the walk on water narrative is way over the top.  If SF wins a SB, Sheehan will be insufferable on the subject.

 

 I haven't listened to Sheehan on Galdi, I'll check that out.   On his own show he doesn't seem anti-Howell.  He thinks he has a shot.  But he is convinced that unless of couurse you have Kyle running an offense, you have no shot to be good in season 1 of a young QB. 

It's funny to me because he was always a side guy to me so I never really cared about his opinion. Honestly, that's the problem with sports radio to me. I'm more interested in the fans opinions over the personalities. So when someone calls in and Sheehan won't let him finish because they're bringing up valid points but taking too long, it gets frustrating. 

 

I was definitely pro RG3 over Kirk but my problem with this franchise and the reason I was pro Haskins is that we never let our QBs develop. Do once Kirk played in 15, I was for resigning him. My problem with him was that I thought(think) hell never be elite, but I don't think you need an elite QB to win it all. When wet franchised him and then again, his price wasn't worth it.

 

The number 1 thing I want for this franchise is to pick a direction (at qb) and stick with it for like 3 seasons. Thats what the Giants did with Jones. Now, supposedly he's a hard worker which Haskins was not but we keep getting 30-35 year old qbs and that means we're going to have to rebuild sooner than later. That's what Sheehan wants though, so these trades. He was asking for Rodgers last week. My opinion seems to be cemented in low round guys and I do like them, but I am more about developing guys and letting them grow into decent guys. People are all about these beautiful passes and comebacks which are great but if we can get even Campbell type years from our QB then we're in the playoffs. 

[The Consigliere]

18 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Robinson doesn't have a lot of mileage from college, more than 1000 less carries than N. Harris had for example.

 

To my eyes, he looked better in college than a thumper RB.  The thumper thought IMO is driven by that's what he looks like and yeah he's good in the short yardage situations. 

 

My thing about Robinson I think ironically plays into what you love numbers-analytics.   And the numbers I shared backed my eyes big time.

 

The one and only athletic gift I have is speed and when I felt banged up (no pun intended) it would effect it.   I know the feeling from first hand experience.  I can just imagine having my leg riddled with bullets like Robinson.  Robinson said he wasn't quite himself but got closer to it as the season progressed.

 

and the dude was still pretty good even though he was playing against stacked boxes.  So when Keim said one agent of an offensive coordinator told him the coordinator specifically mentioned Robinson as a reason why he'd be jazzed to work there, didn't sound wild to me at all.  Makes sense.  But will see.

You're right about speed. I forgot to mention that in my post. The # that seems to crop up as a dividing line for RB's is 4.65. There appear to be almost a miniscule amount of RB's the last 3 decades that have broken out despite running a 4.66 or worse. They're just not around. I think there's like maybe 1 the past five years, and only a handful the last 25 that did much of anything. Robinson not only ran well enough (I believe 4.54), but size adjusted, his speed was excellent. The speed concern aint a big deal, he's got the speed/acceleration to make chunk yards (which is probably where my chain mover take is kinda off, he's better than that kind of grinder, I'd have to dig under the hood, but superficiailly when I think of him, I think of guys like Barry Foster, Foster only had the one big year, but when healthy he was a reliable guy that got mostly bad steelers teams 4-5 yards per carry (wildly divergent #'s, but consistently solid) and caught generally 2 dozen or more passes. That's kind of what I see. I think he's above average, I just don't see difference making elite, but like I mentioned earlier, if you get a plug in reliable rb starter near pick 100, you got plenty of value for your money and draft capital, and can have RB covered very cheaply for 3-4 years depending upon health. 

[Redskins 2021]

Not are team but looks like Titans may be looking to trade for Tre Lance. New Gm is from San Francisco organization.

[The Consigliere]

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Friendly suggestion, break your posts into more paragraphs, makes it easier to read.

 

Yeah I do think that chain of events helped get us to where we are at with Bruce and Dan and if this didn't happen we'd have no chance IMO. 

 

I know you agree that Dan is beyond abysmal.    He is 100% responsible for this organization's decline and his style and decision making is a constant stench on this franchise.

 

I experienced Gibbs 1 during my younger days too.  I'll never forget it.  And after I moved away from DC, I've seen this team's decline not just as a winning team and declining attendance but also national relevance.  As Albert Breer said (paraphrasing) he's never seen a flagship organization destroyed by an owner and turned into a non-flagship organziation like this case.

 

If you told me back in my high school days that national TV shows would refer to this team as one of the two teams that no one in their national audience cares to hear about, yawn, I'd say you are crazy.  Ditto that they'd be ranked dead last in fan attendance.  They couldn't get Sunday Night TV appearances.  Kids in DC rooting for other teams.  The Ravens owning Maryland and creeping into DC.  On and On.

 

It's a quirky thing of mine but this team becoming obscure really bugs me.  It goes beyond just the winning and losing.  My brother in law came with me for example to meet Scot McCloughan years ago after I won an auction -- he was a hard core fan.  Now he's a Dolphins fan and is pushing his son that way, too.  All of that stuff bugs the heck out of me.  So anything that brings some relevance to this team on a national stage moves me even beyond the winning-losing. 

 

Interesting angle, and it is true. The scariest bit is this. There are largely no NFL players whatsoever who consider the Redskins as anything that ever mattered ever. Are there outliers who dig the history of the league (at least shallowy dig, not dig like to the days of Sammy Baugh and Luckman, Johnny U and YA Tittle etc)? Probably, but I'd guess that 98% of the league views the redskins like those of us that are 40+ used to view the Cardinals, Bucs, and Saints, the Lions, Mike Pagel's Colts etc. Just hopeless sides that would never be good and never were good. That's basically the Redskins 1993-2023, which for us as kids (if you're 40 plus) was like 1953-1983, which makes sense. 

 

Our reputation has not only sunk to just a perennial bad team, but to a perennial joke of a team like Bill Bidwil's Cardinals, the Fords Lions etc, the drunken Irsay's. It's that bad, and the fan base rightfully walked away at some point this past 15 years. To restore reputations that have fallen that deeply into disarray is very hard. We have to get lucky with ownership and w/team building, but if he does sell, it will be the first time there's been hope, to my view, since Shanny and RGIII in 2012, I don't really think there's been hope since then (and Gibbs II very briefly). After Shanny and RGIII imploded and Snyder's grip slowly retook hold that hope ebbed away, the fact that it could grow so rapidly after the Zorn years and Taylor's death tells you that the hungry, desperate fan base is here, but how much of it a decade later? Not close to what it once was I imagine, but there's always been bandwagoners that will fatten the #'s if it ever turns around. 

[The Consigliere]

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Part of why I love wearing Commanders-Washington-Redskins gear espeically when I travel is it engages people to talk football with me at times and I've seen an evolution in a bad way on that front for this team over time.  Sad decline.

 

So when people here say no to Hard Knocks or name that move that would give this franchise an iota of a national stage, I cringe.  It's cool to disagree so I got no issue with different opinions but what goes through my mind is the ship has hit the Titanic and I feel it.  We aren't in position to be picky.  We desperately need a jolt.  JP Finlay among others liked to say he used to see a lot of kids in the DMV with Washington jerseys, now he sees really no kids wear them out and about.

 

I am not one of those parents who just lets their kid root for whomever, I've really worked it to keep them in house.     I live in Florida where we got fans from everywhere.  And I've seen this team's irrelevance get worse and worse over the years.  Even 10 years ago, I'd say we'd have an average number of Washingtom fans in my travels compared to other teams, not a high number but average number.  Now I'd say we are as obscure as it gets. 

 

I am not uber social but social enough.  When I go to my kids football and soccer games, parents wear jerseys.  I am the only person wearing Washington.  I talked about Disney in another thread, jerseys from all around the country, its really rare to see Washington jerseys.  It's becoming more and more of a unicorn.

 

And yeah like you as a parent I become more sensitive about it.  My wife is a Giants fan, I've been able to get my kids to root for Washington and not the Giants but here I am with the playoffs going on and the Giants are still playing while this team hasn't won a playoff game in my kids lifetime. 

 

In short as a parent it takes some work to get this next generation to root for this team.  Some don't care.  I wish I didn't but I do. 

That's funny, my wife would've killed me if I'd tried lol, but I had no interest in trying. I did not and do not want my kid growing up supporting a team like ours has been since '93, no magic, no memories, just misery and pain, and you can't look up to the org, or ownership or anything because generally, they've been evil? Can't do it. Plus my wife laughs at the lack of local connection too which is true (born and raised in the bay, my brother lived in virginia after he was born for four years right before I was born in '74, and that's it, that's the connection). 

 

My boy will be Niners or Raiders and I'm fine with it, though I prefer the Niners because they're better run and its where I grew up even though I HATED them growing up (actually HATED both, no wins vs the Niners save 1986 and 1983 from 1981-1999, and the Raiders killed us in XVIII). 

[The Consigliere]

14 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

@HigSkin I know put most of this out there already but in case this adds anything.  Listened to Keim's appearance on the junkies.

 

A.  they are genuinely into Howell

B.  He thinks its Howell and a cheap veteran to compete with him and that could be Heinicke

C.  He thinks even if they are more ambitious than that he believes Dan selling will weigh in on this where they likely wouldn't want to spend big on a QB

D.  Doubled down they want to improve the O line and secondary

 

Listened then to Keim on Bram's show.

 

A.  Doubled down that they liked him before the draft and liked that they saw some of what they liked about him in college in his debut NFL game

B.  He senses the FO wants to invest in players around the QB versus investing a lot of money in the QB.

C.  Mentioned wanting to keep Payne

D.  Doesn't think they would use a first round pick on a QB

E.  Building the O line, add to the secondary, mentioned adding a RB -- alluding McKissic might be gone

F.  They were jazzed that Howell hit the receivers on time and in stride which helps their playmakers get YAC

G.  They seem convinced that if they beef the O line and improve the coordinator spot, it will make a major difference

H.  Mentioned the Saints build a line that factored Brees height -- implying the same can be done for Howell.  I gather that means shorter interior guys?

Thanks and what was his final official measurement? 6 foot 1, or 6 foot .5? DO we know? I don't think we need to go too short, and I imagine it would only typically apply to interior lineman right? Since the nature of throwing at angles would typically render tackle height irrelevant (since its the edge's that are probably blocking any view at that point). 

[Wyndorf25]

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

In short as a parent it takes some work to get this next generation to root for this team.  Some don't care.  I wish I didn't but I do. 

 

A wise man once said: "Being a Redskins fan prepares you for life".

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, The Consigliere said:

 

Interesting angle, and it is true. The scariest bit is this. There are largely no NFL players whatsoever who consider the Redskins as anything that ever mattered ever. Are there outliers who dig the history of the league (at least shallowy dig, not dig like to the days of Sammy Baugh and Luckman, Johnny U and YA Tittle etc)? Probably, but I'd guess that 98% of the league views the redskins like those of us that are 40+ used to view the Cardinals, Bucs, and Saints, the Lions, Mike Pagel's Colts etc. Just hopeless sides that would never be good and never were good. That's basically the Redskins 1993-2023, which for us as kids (if you're 40 plus) was like 1953-1983, which makes sense. 

 

 

To my observation its beyond this team isn't good.  It's seen as almost some small market team that no one gives a rats behind.   We are in the NFC East, big market team -- lets say the college equivalent of the SEC yet we are like Vanderbilt, no one cares to gives us any attention.  We don't sells jerseys.  We have a hard time getting prime time games.  Local TV ratings aren't what they once were.  Dead last in fan attendance.

 

We are what we used to joke the Jaguars were years ago.  A team with a very small base of fans and the rest of the NFL yawns about.  That's Dan's legacy.  I among others called out that we were headed in this direction during the Bruce Allen years but I didn't expect it to reach this level bad.

 

11 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

Our reputation has not only sunk to just a perennial bad team, but to a perennial joke of a team like Bill Bidwil's Cardinals, the Fords Lions etc, the drunken Irsay's. It's that bad, and the fan base rightfully walked away at some point this past 15 years. To restore reputations that have fallen that deeply into disarray is very hard. We have to get lucky with ownership and w/team building, but if he does sell, it will be the first time there's been hope, to my view, since Shanny and RGIII in 2012, I don't really think there's been hope since then (and Gibbs II very briefly). After Shanny and RGIII imploded and Snyder's grip slowly retook hold that hope ebbed away, the fact that it could grow so rapidly after the Zorn years and Taylor's death tells you that the hungry, desperate fan base is here, but how much of it a decade later? Not close to what it once was I imagine, but there's always been bandwagoners that will fatten the #'s if it ever turns around. 

 

Snyder selling will be everything IMO.  It's no accident that national reporters call this team a sleeping giant in the context of new ownership.

 

Dan was awful in everyway you can be awful.  Early in his tenure the rap was at least he spends money.  But that is long past.  Now he doesn't spend money either and is beyond cheap.

 

Some like to say he's one of a group of bad owners.  IMO he has his own level of bad.   There is bad and there is Snyder bad which is at least 2 pegs worst than name that bad NFL owner.

 

2 minutes ago, Wyndorf25 said:

 

A wise man once said: "Being a Redskins fan prepares you for life".

 

Yep you learn that life isn't easy.