The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

Glad to see someone with some brains back up the wacky idea I’ve been pushing for a while lol. What makes it even better is that if Brady slow-plays his retirement decision (no way he’s retiring imo he’s just not gonna outwardly bail on the Bucs immediately even though he’s a FA) then we may even have a new owner in place to woo him, rather than the dark cloud of Snyder. Even better if we get Hard Knocks (or if the Brady acquisition plus new owner ends up getting us Hard Knocks because it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity to get the GOAT on a show like that, as well as showcase a new owner) and he can pimp some of his alternative medicine **** lol. Anything it takes. 

 

We can't let the Rivera regime just go out with a whimper without ever having taken a big shot.  Ron basically has one big year to make something happen here and sell his regime to the new ownership.  Well let's take a big swing, and to me that's getting Brady.  We could be the center of the football universe for one wild ass season.  If it can happen to Tampa, then it can sure as Hell happen here.

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

We can't let the Rivera regime just go out with a whimper without ever having taken a big shot.

 

Ron just threw $28m at a year of Wentz, im not sure he belongs taking big shots

Edited January 17, 2023 by BrentMeisterGeneral

[88Comrade2000]

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

We can't let the Rivera regime just go out with a whimper without ever having taken a big shot.  Ron basically has one big year to make something happen here and sell his regime to the new ownership.  Well let's take a big swing, and to me that's getting Brady.  We could be the center of the football universe for one wild ass season.  If it can happen to Tampa, then it can sure as Hell happen here.

Brady is done and that will be clear when he’s even worse next year; wherever he plays.

 

Ron can ride with Howell. He’s already had his shots and he failed. Go with Sam to see what we have. If Sam is good, then  we are set. If not, we can move on from idiot Ron and the new guy will have a high pick.

[Darrell Green Fan]

21 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For anyone who wants to dig into to Howell some more this article is an incredible read.   It's worth the time IMO.   I read it before the previous draft, I had access to it via a subscription to Go Long because I can access McGinn's draft reporters via that vehicle.  But I reread it this weekend and got me jazzed.  Now I am almost @KDawg level jazzed to see how Howell pans out.

 

https://www.golongtd.com/p/sam-howell-wants-to-be-the-greatest

 

 

If you read this article you can't understand why he was a 5th round pick. Blows away the field on the Wonderlick, had the strongest arm, processed info really well.  Why on Earth did he slip?  My only  concern is there is a difference between being confident and being dangerously arrogant.  Reading "I'm the best QB in the NFL already" and "my 3 years of film at North Carolina speak for itself" sound dangerously close to Zach Wilson territory.  

 

But this is exciting for sure, I only wish we saw more of him this year. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Darrell Green Fan

[KDawg]

54 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

If you read this article you can't understand why he was a 5th round pick. Blows away the field on the Wonderlick, had the strongest arm, processed info really well.  Why on Earth did he slip?  My only  concern is there is a difference between being confident and being dangerously arrogant.  Reading "I'm the best QB in the NFL already" and "my 3 years of film at North Carolina speak for itself" sound dangerously close to Zach Wilson territory.  

 

But this is exciting for sure, I only wish we saw more of him this year. 

 

No where near Zach Wilson. 

 

And this is what we've been saying since we drafted him. There was no reason for him to fall besides NFL FOs being smarter than themselves.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

We can't let the Rivera regime just go out with a whimper without ever having taken a big shot.  Ron basically has one big year to make something happen here and sell his regime to the new ownership.  Well let's take a big swing, and to me that's getting Brady.  We could be the center of the football universe for one wild ass season.  If it can happen to Tampa, then it can sure as Hell happen here.

 

Wouldn't hate it but no shot if Dan is still here.  With Dan here its the Siberia of the NFL - worst facilities, worst stadium, worst attendance, worst owner so for a dude who I gather wants to end his career on a high we'd not be on his short list I gather.  I also get the impression he prefers to play in a destination with warmish weather at this point in his career -- feels like SF or Las Vegas.

 

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

If you read this article you can't understand why he was a 5th round pick. Blows away the field on the Wonderlick, had the strongest arm, processed info really well.  Why on Earth did he slip?  My only  concern is there is a difference between being confident and being dangerously arrogant.  Reading "I'm the best QB in the NFL already" and "my 3 years of film at North Carolina speak for itself" sound dangerously close to Zach Wilson territory.  

 

But this is exciting for sure, I only wish we saw more of him this year. 

 

He also says you got to think that way to be good.  Feels like he's a student of sports psychology.  Believe it -- and it happens.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[88Comrade2000]

I don’t see SF going after Brady. They will go with Lance but if Brock plays better in camp, they will go with Brock.

 

Though if Brock wins them a SuperBowl; maybe they move on from Lance?

[Warhead36]

I think Brady goes to Vegas and Carr gets dealt to New York Jets.

[NickyJ]

I don't really want any part of Brady. We've seen that a poor coach/playcaller can cripple him now. This season to me was a vindication of both Arians and Belichick: They let good QBs thrive, and not just any ordinary coach can do that.

 

We have no idea who our OC is. Maybe he's decent, maybe not, but I don't want to waste another year on an aging band-aid if we don't feel confident in our playcaller when we could be developing Howell or doubling down on a good draft pick.

 

Brady going to Vegas would be fascinating. McDaniels has been a dumpster fire every time he's the head coach. Can Brady do well in that environment?

Edited January 17, 2023 by NickyJ

[Warhead36]

Signing a 45 year old Brady is an early 2000s Snyder move. No thanks. 

[Conn]

16 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Signing a 45 year old Brady is an early 2000s Snyder move. No thanks. 

It’s not at all, that’s an extremely surface level way to look at it—because as long as they work on the OL this offseason, the roster is actually ready to win now. And it would be a short term thing. The actual early 2000’s Snyder move would be to sign him to a 7-year deal with crippling future guarantees on a bad roster. 
 

The whole hypothetical hinges on a new owner coming in and talking him into it anyways. This would never happen with Snyder, Brady wouldn’t do that. 

[KDawg]

Just now, Conn said:

It’s not at all, that’s an extremely surface level way to look at it—because as long as they work on the OL this offseason, the roster is actually ready to win now. And it would be a short term thing. The actual early 2000’s Snyder move would be to sign him to a 7-year deal with crippling future guarantees on a bad roster. 
 

The whole hypothetical hinges on a new owner coming in and talking him into it anyways. This would never happen with Snyder, Brady wouldn’t do that. 

 

Brady isn't going anywhere without an OL already in place. There is too much to do on the OL and without being able to rely on FA to shore it up due to Snyder/ownership situation, we wouldn't be able to shore it up until the draft.

 

And then... after watching Brady play last night... I'm quite frankly not interested.

[ntotoro]

If he goes to a team with no OL, at least it'll be fun watching Brady blame everyone else for his mistakes.

[Warhead36]

7 minutes ago, Conn said:

It’s not at all, that’s an extremely surface level way to look at it—because as long as they work on the OL this offseason, the roster is actually ready to win now. And it would be a short term thing. The actual early 2000’s Snyder move would be to sign him to a 7-year deal with crippling future guarantees on a bad roster. 
 

The whole hypothetical hinges on a new owner coming in and talking him into it anyways. This would never happen with Snyder, Brady wouldn’t do that. 

Almost the entire OL needs to be replaced. Brady isn't coming here to play in that kind of situation. And that isn't even taking into account the ownership situation.

[mistertim]

Brady isn't coming here with a poor OL and ownership completely up in the air. Zero chance.

 

I think he's done and will likely retire anyway. It's amazing how long he's been able to play, but it's time for him to hang up his spurs.

 

Hopefully they'll focus on OL this offseason and roll with Howell next year. If he fails, then Rivera is probably gone and the new owner will bring in a completely new coaching regime and we'll start over again.

Edited January 17, 2023 by mistertim

[Conn]

I mean, I obviously think you guys @KDawg @Warhead36 are most likely correct about it not happening for a variety of reasons. My version of the hypothetical was always based on a couple other hypotheticals that may not even line up anyways—that Brady would take his time and slow play his retirement decision this offseason, meaning he’d still be out there in FA waffling after we fix the OL and get a new owner, and that the new owner would be someone like Bezos/Jay-Z/etc. who has the star power and inherent hype to intrigue someone like Brady in the first place. And it being a weak conference, that could be appealing if it all lined up that way. I’m aware that it likely won’t, and also aware that just going with Howell is a perfectly viable (maybe even preferable if everything didn’t line up just right) option.
 

I’ve weirdly watched a ton of Bucs this season. Leftwich and the playcalling is the problem there. On individual isolated plays where he’s allowed to just be Brady, Brady looks like himself. He has another year in him (though people are right that he’d likely choose elsewhere to finish his career for multiple reasons).
 

But it’s not a hill I’d die on, just an intriguing hypothetical that is most likely a pipe dream anyways.  

Edited January 17, 2023 by Conn

[Going Commando]

34 minutes ago, Conn said:

But it’s not a hill I’d die on, just an intriguing hypothetical that is most likely a pipe dream anyways.  

 

Die on it man!  I'm with you 100%, and I think the naysayers here are thinking small.

 

1 - Snyder is not the impediment here.  Everyone knows he's on his way out the door.  Rivera would be the one selling Brady, not Snyder.

 

2 - Snyder's impending sale is really going to totally prevent us from signing free agent deals this summer?  Why even compete the next season then?  We really can't find the money to sign Brady to a 15 million dollar one year deal?

 

3 - Brady is the game's greatest competitor, I think there is no way he let's this nightmarish season and that humiliating game be his last taste of NFL football.  And the Bucs were just bad this year, he's not bad.  I saw a totally washed up Peyton Manning, who could no longer move his neck or throw with NFL velocity, captain a Denver team to a SB.  Brady is in vastly better shape than Peyton was his final year.

 

4 - I can see a case for him wanting to play for Las Vegas because of his history with McDaniels and the presence of Josh Jacobs and Davante Adams.  But our team is deeper and better than theirs and Rivera is a better coach than McDaniels.  We've got a deeper panoply of weapons than them and our defense is actually good and championship caliber.  And we don't have Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid in our division.  If he wants to make an honest run at another Super Bowl, he can do that here.  And we don't have a good QB here in house that we have to dump to make room for him, or that he'd have to compete against for the job.  How many other good teams in the league are out there with our kind of job opening at QB?

 

5 - The OL is not that big of an impediment.  It can be rebuilt into a good line with like two new faces, especially if you have the master of the quick throw playing QB.  You get Brady and then you trade up for Skoronski if you need a good rookie starter and then bring in the center from Michigan and there you go.

 

I want Brady here.  You're right that everything is lining up for him to be our best option.  Rivera has one year to make something big happen or else he is a goner.  We're going to have a fair amount of cap space and the revenue sharing ensures we can spend to the cap right?  Brady is the only good vet QB out there who isn't expensive, and who would be good enough to give us an honest shot at a championship.  So what if Howell has to sit for another year?  It wouldn't be good for him too to sit behind Tom freaking Brady?  And if Rivera pulls it off and we make a deep run, then Rivera can sell his regime to new ownership and we may get honest to God stability.  That would be the sign that things are finally looking up here to me.

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Die on it man!  I'm with you 100%, and I think the naysayers here are thinking small.

 

1 - Snyder is not the impediment here.  Everyone knows he's on his way out the door.  Rivera would be the one selling Brady, not Snyder.

 

2 - Snyder's impending sale is really going to totally prevent us from signing free agent deals this summer?  Why even compete the next season then?  We really can't find the money to sign Brady to a 15 million dollar one year deal?

 

3 - Brady is the game's greatest competitor, I think there is no way he let's this nightmarish season and that humiliating game be his last taste of NFL football.  And the Bucs were just bad this year, he's not bad.  I saw a totally washed up Peyton Manning, who could no longer move his neck or throw with NFL velocity, captain a Denver team to a SB.  Brady is in vastly better shape than Peyton was his final year.

 

4 - I can see a case for him wanting to play for Las Vegas because of his history with McDaniels and the presence of Josh Jacobs and Davante Adams.  But our team is deeper and better than theirs and Rivera is a better coach than McDaniels.  We've got a deeper panoply of weapons than them and our defense is actually good and championship caliber.  And we don't have Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid in our division.  If he wants to make an honest run at another Super Bowl, he can do that here.  And we don't have a good QB here in house that we have to dump to make room for him, or that he'd have to compete against for the job.  How many other good teams in the league are out there with our kind of job opening at QB?

 

5 - The OL is not that big of an impediment.  It can be rebuilt into a good line with like two new faces, especially if you have the master of the quick throw playing QB.  You get Brady and then you trade up for Skoronski if you need a good rookie starter and then bring in the center from Michigan and there you go.

 

I want Brady here.  You're right that everything is lining up for him to be our best option.  Rivera has one year to make something big happen or else he is a goner.  We're going to have a fair amount of cap space and the revenue sharing ensures we can spend to the cap right?  Brady is the only good vet QB out there who isn't expensive, and who would be good enough to give us an honest shot at a championship.  So what if Howell has to sit for another year?  It wouldn't be good for him too to sit behind Tom freaking Brady?  And if Rivera pulls it off and we make a deep run, then Rivera can sell his regime to new ownership and we may get honest to God stability.  That would be the sign that things are finally looking up here to me.

1. Rivera is not a great salesman/pitchman. He couldn't convince Stafford two years ago or Wilson last year to come here and we aren't that much better than we were then then we are now, at least relative to other teams needing a QB.

 

2. Remember when JKC sold? That's how we lost Trent Green. We can still spend some money but there will be limits.

 

3. That Bronco team was loaded and Manning had already been there for 3+ years. And in his previous years he put up dominant seasons with a stacked roster. Being a great competitor is fine and all but he needs talent around him, more so now at his older age.

 

4. I don't think we're more talented than the Raiders. Jacobs is better than any of our RBs. Adams is better than any of our WRs(though our WR depth is better). Waller is better than any of our TEs. OL is probably a wash(both stink). Our defense is better for sure, but while you mention they're in a tough division, our division has three teams in the final four of the conference, first in history, and Brady just got shallacked by the team that didn't even win it. We wouldn't be a cake walk either.

 

5. OL needs more than two new faces. I think it needs a complete overhaul. The only starter that's worth keeping is Leno and even then, he's not a stud(but he's fine). Cosmi at starting RG as well is fine but we keep screwing around with him so who knows how he'll develop. We need a brand new RT, LG, and C. I'm not sold on Chris Paul going from playing one game to suddenly being some stud starting LG. Roullier has had back to back season ending injuries so we need a new C(you yourself was pushing for a new C last year's draft time advocating for Tyler Linderbaum who to your credit turned out to be fantastic). Lucas needs to be relegated back to backup swing T.

 

We are not a championship team with Brady. Still too many holes. Already brought up the OL. Also need another CB. Another LB or two. A new TE. We're likely going to have to replace Payne. Brady maybe takes us to like 9 or 10 wins tops and then he probably retires and we're back to square one.

 

We keep trying the veteran retread route. It. Does. Not. Work.

[Est.1974]

Anything is possible with Rivera and his wise men picking a QB. Bring in Brady and use our first couple of pick on OL. I wouldn’t discount that.

[Warhead36]

Just now, Est.1974 said:

Anything is possible with Rivera and his wise men picking a QB. Bring in Brady and use our first couple of pick on OL. I wouldn’t discount that.

We'd need to address OL in FA. Then maybe draft Mayer if we sign Brady. Give him another Gronk.

[Est.1974]

9 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

We'd need to address OL in FA. Then maybe draft Mayer if we sign Brady. Give him another Gronk.

I don’t like the look of OL in free agency. Not sure the real quality is there. I think we draft multiple OL and Rivera brings a vet TE in on the cheap like Austin Hooper. Tried to get him 2 years back.

[Riggo#44]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

With Dan here its the Siberia of the NFL - worst facilities, worst stadium, worst attendance, worst owner

Problem is, even after Snyder gets the Real Seymour Skinner treatment, the other three aren't going away overnight.

[Skinsinparadise]

What's next for Tom Brady? Experts predict landing spots, Bucs' QB plan

Tom Brady and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers have been eliminated from the 2022 NFL playoffs -- in a 31-14 blowout loss to the Dallas Cowboys in the wild-card round -- which means the greatest quarterback in league history is again an unrestricted free agent. The 45-year-old Brady has been coy about his future, but he's still playing at a high level; he recently broke his own record for most completions in a season.

The last time Brady was a free agent, after the 2019 season, he left the New England Patriots to sign with the Bucs and promptly won a Super Bowl in Year 1. He briefly retired after Tampa Bay was eliminated in the divisional round last year, but he reversed his decision less than two months later and led the Bucs to an NFC South title.

Now, Brady again has options. He could return to the Bucs to make a run at his eighth Super Bowl title, sign with another team -- or retire and start his career as a TV analyst.

Where should Brady want to play in 2023? What could the Bucs do at quarterback if Brady leaves? We asked our panel of ESPN NFL experts to weigh in on what's next for the GOAT and the Bucs:

Which NFL team should go all out to sign Brady in 2023?

Jeremy Fowler, national NFL writer: Raiders. Las Vegas appears to want three things: a culture shift, an exciting player to drive interest and a quarterback who can run coach Josh McDaniels' offense better than anyone. Brady fits on all fronts. The Raiders also need to win now. Brady can help with that, too.

 

Dan Graziano, national NFL writer: Dolphins. I know it sounds like they want to stick with Tua Tagovailoa, assuming he has recovered from his concussion by then. But with the players they have on offense, a little tinkering with the offensive and defensive lines would make this a win-now roster that could be a Super Bowl contender with a more reliably available quarterback.

 

Jenna Laine, Bucs reporter: Buccaneers. Despite the loss on Monday, the issues they've had this season stem from injuries to their offensive line. Getting back center Ryan Jensen, having tackles Tristan Wirfs and Donovan Smith healthy again, taking a swing at another guard in the draft and getting some more speed at wide receiver to complement Mike Evans and Chris Godwin would go a long way in getting this offense back to what it was in 2021. Tampa Bay does have questions, including: How much money can it keep pushing toward the future while still being able to re-sign linebacker Lavonte David, cornerbacks Jamel Dean and Sean Murphy-Bunting and safety Mike Edwards?

 

Sal Paolantonio, national NFL correspondent: Jets. If Miami really is committed to bringing back Tagovailoa, that takes the Dolphins out of the Brady sweepstakes and should make the Jets contenders. If Brady is looking for a similar situation to the Bucs in 2020, it's the Jets, who have a ready-made defense. He could remake the offense the way he wants. And he would face Bill Belichick and the Patriots twice a year. Get your popcorn ready.

 

Jason Reid, Andscape senior NFL writer: Raiders. With longtime starter Derek Carr headed out the door, they need to upgrade. As Jeremy mentioned above, Brady already has a relationship with McDaniels from their days together in New England. That should be the starting point for the Raiders to push for him.

 

Mike Tannenbaum, NFL front-office insider: Raiders. They have playmakers on offense -- Davante Adams, Darren Waller and Hunter Renfrow, and could re-sign Josh Jacobs -- and continuity with the coach and front office. The Raiders should sign Brady and draft another quarterback; they own the No. 7 overall pick in the April draft.

 

Field Yates, NFL analyst: Buccaneers. Tampa Bay has adjusted its salary-cap strategy since acquiring Brady, making a series of win-now moves and pushing money into the future while maximizing this window. Can you blame the franchise? Of course not. And with Brady still playing at a level that is good enough to make the playoffs annually, the Bucs should desperately want him back.

---

Because Brady gets to choose his team, though, where should he want to sign?

Fowler: Buccaneers. Tampa Bay, when healthy, still has a stacked roster, including several stars on offense at Brady's disposal. From family to football, the Tampa Bay setup is familiar. And the Bucs are most likely willing to make necessary staff or player changes to accommodate him.

 

Graziano: Dolphins. It's Miami and its talented roster, for all of the reasons I listed earlier.

 

Laine: Buccaneers. Remember that Tampa Bay gave him 11 days off in the middle of training camp to tend to his family, with zero hesitation from coach Todd Bowles and general manager Jason Licht. That's unprecedented for an NFL starting quarterback. The Bucs have a well-constructed locker room of unselfish players whom Brady truly enjoys playing with every day -- a "family," as quarterbacks coach Clyde Christensen described it to me -- and they've showed an unwavering commitment to him, not just as a quarterback but as a person in one of the most challenging years of his life.

 

Paolantonio: Jets or Dolphins make the most sense because of their rosters. He should stay away from the Raiders, who play in the AFC West with stars Patrick Mahomes and Justin Herbert.

 

Reid: Raiders. A union in Las Vegas makes the most sense because of McDaniels' presence. Although Brady had impressive cumulative stats this season -- he finished third in the league with 4,694 pass yards -- his performance didn't always pass the eye test as the Buccaneers struggled to an 8-9 record. At this late stage of his career, another partnership with McDaniels would be his best fit to try to win another title.

 

Tannenbaum: Buccaneers. Their offensive line will be much better next season. They would be in a great position to run it back, win another division title and get a home playoff game or two.

 

Yates: 49ers. From a pure football standpoint, it's easy to see the appeal of the 49ers, who arguably have the league's best roster and are loaded with skill players. Moreover, it's Brady's hometown team. There are questions about whether Brady would want to play on the West Coast (away from his children, who live on the East Coast) and about whether the 49ers would even be in the market for a quarterback, but if we're just talking about his best chance to keep winning, San Francisco stands out.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35455254/next-tom-brady-experts-predict-2023-team-landing-spots-options-bucs-quarterback-plan

[Warhead36]

Brady to the Jets would be such a meme. I'm pulling for that.

[Going Commando]

Miami is the only better choice than us.  Their defense is legit and they've got two stud WRs and a great coach.  Their OL isn't any good though, and they don't have a running game.

 

The Raiders have a great WR and a great (impending FA) RB and that's it.  Waller misses like half the season, he's not a reliable presence in their line up.  Their defense and OL suck and McDaniels is a bad coach.

 

And the Bucs defense is cooked too.  They have aged out of being a stacked roster and their secondary is on the verge of collapse.  The one thing that this season should have made absolutely clear is that their run as a SB contender with Brady is over.

 

Our defense is maturing into its prime and is ready to make a run right now.  We've got three good receivers and we've got a strong RB room.  The only things we need to fix roster-wise are the OL and QB, and signing Brady takes care of one of those issues.  Use the draft and the rest of our FA dollars to bring in two new starting OLs and we are ready to go.