The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

I agree. Jones has played well this year, just had a great game in the playoffs, and absolutely owns our arses. Not sure why so much of our fan base is celebrating the Giants extending him. 

 

There are going to be fans on here talking about how we have the Giants right where we want them as they win another two Superbowls, just like they did with the last mediocre QB they had running the show.

 

It's denialism, just like how this fanbase and this board were talking crap about Jalen Hurts last offseason.  These QBs may not be obvious blue chip studs, but they're absolutely good enough to build around and win with.  They are in good situations, playing for good franchises, and dominant teams are being put together around them.  Acting decisively on a QB and building around them successfully is what you have to do to build a winner, and it's what the Giants, Eagles, and Cowboys all did.

[FootballZombie]

3 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Acting decisively on a QB and building around them successfully is what you have to do to build a winner, and it's what the Giants, Eagles, and Cowboys all did.

 

 

People's obsession w/ getting elite QBs leads them to forget that 16 teams in this league walk into most games with a QB advantage.

 

Even when it comes to Super Bowls, If you want a puncher's chance you don't need that bleeding edge best-of-the-best guy, just gotta be above average.

[Skinsinparadise]

@HigSkin I know put most of this out there already but in case this adds anything.  Listened to Keim's appearance on the junkies.

 

A.  they are genuinely into Howell

B.  He thinks its Howell and a cheap veteran to compete with him and that could be Heinicke

C.  He thinks even if they are more ambitious than that he believes Dan selling will weigh in on this where they likely wouldn't want to spend big on a QB

D.  Doubled down they want to improve the O line and secondary

 

Listened then to Keim on Bram's show.

 

A.  Doubled down that they liked him before the draft and liked that they saw some of what they liked about him in college in his debut NFL game

B.  He senses the FO wants to invest in players around the QB versus investing a lot of money in the QB.

C.  Mentioned wanting to keep Payne

D.  Doesn't think they would use a first round pick on a QB

E.  Building the O line, add to the secondary, mentioned adding a RB -- alluding McKissic might be gone

F.  They were jazzed that Howell hit the receivers on time and in stride which helps their playmakers get YAC

G.  They seem convinced that if they beef the O line and improve the coordinator spot, it will make a major difference

H.  Mentioned the Saints build a line that factored Brees height -- implying the same can be done for Howell.  I gather that means shorter interior guys?

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Dexter]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Carr has a no-trade clause so he basically gets veto power over where he goes. I think it's highly unlikely that he'll void that for us. The only way that won't be applicable is if they can't find any trade partners are are forced to cut him instead. But I'm assuming that is their absolute last resort if they can't work something out.

 

I think he'll end up with the Jets, Colts, or maybe Saints...though the Saints are also in cap hell. Carolina could be another possibility, depending on what they think of Corral. 

If we trade for anyone it will be Justin Fields.  If we want to be a run first team then that is the guy who can strike fear in the opponent.  Howell is probably legit but we have seen what Fields can do with lesser talent around him.  Only way I pass on a first round swap for Fields is if it is like the '18 draft when Derwin, Edmunds and Vita fell in the draft.  Sam will be a free agent in '25 and Fields would be on his 5th year option in '25.  I think I would want to roll with the dynamic playmaker rather than rolling with an unknown Howell.  Would be horrible to see us struggle at QB for another year.

[mistertim]

19 minutes ago, Dexter said:

If we trade for anyone it will be Justin Fields.  If we want to be a run first team then that is the guy who can strike fear in the opponent.  Howell is probably legit but we have seen what Fields can do with lesser talent around him.  Only way I pass on a first round swap for Fields is if it is like the '18 draft when Derwin, Edmunds and Vita fell in the draft.  Sam will be a free agent in '25 and Fields would be on his 5th year option in '25.  I think I would want to roll with the dynamic playmaker rather than rolling with an unknown Howell.  Would be horrible to see us struggle at QB for another year.

 

I think it's incredibly unlikely that Chicago will give up on Fields. I suppose it's possible that they'll stay at #1 and draft Bryce Young, but IMO it's far more likely that they'll grab a draft haul from someone who wants to move up to #1.

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

There are going to be fans on here talking about how we have the Giants right where we want them as they win another two Superbowls, just like they did with the last mediocre QB they had running the show.

 

It's denialism, just like how this fanbase and this board were talking crap about Jalen Hurts last offseason.  These QBs may not be obvious blue chip studs, but they're absolutely good enough to build around and win with.  They are in good situations, playing for good franchises, and dominant teams are being put together around them.  Acting decisively on a QB and building around them successfully is what you have to do to build a winner, and it's what the Giants, Eagles, and Cowboys all did.

Agreed. Howell showed enough in one game, and likely in practices that he can succeed in this league. If Purdy can do it for the Niners I believe Howell can be the guy for us. Lets build around this kid and coach him up.

[Renegade7]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Part of why I love wearing Commanders-Washington-Redskins gear espeically when I travel is it engages people to talk football with me at times and I've seen an evolution in a bad way on that front for this team over time.  Sad decline.

 

I swear, man, jus had a flashback reading this to a road trip I took to Columbus, OH that had me making a stop in Wheeling, WV.

 

This is before the name change and I had my gear on, I'm 100% certain some folks would've "engaged" with me differently if I didn't. 🧐

Edited January 18, 2023 by Renegade7

[Warhead36]

You don't need an elite QB to win. You need a QB who is consistently good and is capable of playing elite for stretches. That's how Flacco and Eli won rings. They were never elite. Never in MVP consideration. But they were year in year out good and both had stretches of ridiculously hot play in the playoffs(Eli twice). 

 

If all you do is chase guys like Mahomes you're gonna be in the desert forever. Guys like that are once in a generation unicorns.

[method man]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

@HigSkin I know put most of this out there already but in case this adds anything.  Listened to Keim's appearance on the junkies.

 

A.  they are genuinely into Howell

B.  He thinks its Howell and a cheap veteran to compete with him and that could be Heinicke

C.  He thinks even if they are more ambitious than that he believes Dan selling will weigh in on this where they likely wouldn't want to spend big on a QB

D.  Doubled down they want to improve the O line and secondary

 

Listened then to Keim on Bram's show.

 

A.  Doubled down that they liked him before the draft and liked that they saw some of what they liked about him in college in his debut NFL game

B.  He senses the FO wants to invest in players around the QB versus investing a lot of money in the QB.

C.  Mentioned wanting to keep Payne

D.  Doesn't think they would use a first round pick on a QB

E.  Building the O line, add to the secondary, mentioned adding a RB -- alluding McKissic might be gone

F.  They were jazzed that Howell hit the receivers on time and in stride which helps their playmakers get YAC

G.  They seem convinced that if they beef the O line and improve the coordinator spot, it will make a major difference

H.  Mentioned the Saints build a line that factored Brees height -- implying the same can be done for Howell.  I gather that means shorter interior guys?

On H, Cosmi is 6-6 and Paul is 6-4. All the centers in this draft are 6-3+. The other implication is strong pass pro to buy Howell time to move within the pocket to find a throwing lane

[KDawg]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

B.  He thinks its Howell and a cheap veteran to compete with him and that could be Heinicke

 

 

Damnit. Don't evoke that name!

[KDawg]

Moving forward we should refer to that person as [REDACTED]

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, method man said:

On H, Cosmi is 6-6 and Paul is 6-4. All the centers in this draft are 6-3+. The other implication is strong pass pro to buy Howell time to move within the pocket to find a throwing lane

I am curious to look up the old NO lineman now.  I am assuming it doesn't matter at tackle but just interior O line.  6'3 to me I'd guess is fine.

 

Luke Wypler, 6 '3

 

 

or, 6 '3

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Moving forward we should refer to that person as [REDACTED]

 

Yup, I want no part of TH being back.  95% of his value was knowing Turner's offense.  Bring any vet stopgap as a backup over TH.  

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Moving forward we should refer to that person as [REDACTED]

 

Assume you mean Buechele.  They are so quiet about it, not a soul among the beat guys have even mentioned his name, they I gather don't want to tip off the league about their interest and are ready to shock the world. 

 

As for Heinicke, I was just listening to Sabah on the radio just refer to Rivera as being evil for how he handled Heinicke.  She was dead serious, she wasn't joking or being sarcastic. 

 

The more I think about it, I think Logan Paulsen is right, you don't want your backup QB to be a celebrity QB that brings so much passion out of some -- its a distraction for the team and especially the starting QB.

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Assume you mean Buechele.  They are so quiet about it, not a soul among the beat guys have even mentioned his name, they I gather don't want to tip off the league about their interest and are ready to shock the world. 

 

As for Heinicke, I was just listening to Sabah on the radio just refer to Rivera as being evil for how he handled Heinicke.  She was dead serious, she wasn't joking or being sarcastic. 

 

The more I think about it, I think Logan Paulsen is right, you don't want your backup QB to be a celebrity QB that brings so much passion out of some -- its a distraction for the team and especially the starting QB.

 

 

I appreciate what [REDACTED] did for us. He played with a lot of heart and determination.

 

But with Turner gone, it was time to move on from [REDACTED].

 

I just have a feeling with penny pinching they are going to re-sign him. 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I appreciate what [REDACTED] did for us. He played with a lot of heart and determination.

 

But with Turner gone, it was time to move on from [REDACTED].

 

I just have a feeling with penny pinching they are going to re-sign him. 

 

 Could be so.  I'd rather have Brissett or Datlon but Heinous might be cheaper.  Dan was cheap enough during the last off season when he was the owner.  Add by the way Chris Russell to the pile who said yesterday he heard Dan's been having cash flow issues for quite some time and has not had the cash flow that many other owners have had to spend. 

 

Now compound that with him supposedly selling where bankers tend to prefer to keep things status quo as for the books for prospective buyers -- I think they end up doing hardly anything.  Rivera already referenced the word "budget".  It's another reason why discussing Brady, Carr, Lamar or whomever is likely a waste of time.  

 

While its annoying if we do nothing, I'd take any circumstance to get rid of Dan and heck even if he were still in charge I'd doubt we'd be doing a heck of a lot anyway especially with him having to pay out of pocket in that case for a 3 billion dollar stadium.  

Edited January 18, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[veteranskinsfan]

I heard Sabah with Sheehan too.  I liked it when she said last year if we had started Howell then next year would not be a developmental year for him.  We basically

wasted a year.

[Skinsinparadise]

Morning radio is going to be miserable this off season.  Sheehan after getting much wrong 2 years ago about the QB spot, nailed the idea that Wentz would be a disaster this last off season so he's feel empowered .  He has an odd mix of points right now.  He says this team isn't going to the playoffs next season with Howell.  Prepare for some pain because he's young and new. 

 

While at the same time, he's intrigured by Howell and is a fan of the roster.  And thinks some of the veteran options on the market to add to the QB room like Andy Dalton is better than Heinicke -- which I agree with that part of his point.    Sheehan is the biggest fan of the Shanahans on the planet, both of them, so he goes if Kyle had Howell, he implied Kyle can do anything and would pull it off.

 

The Junkies are even more negative about next season with Howell.    Wonder what happened where Rivera was a regular guest on their show a year ago but not this year?  Sometimes I can't distinguish their voices, one of them, i think its Lurch, absolutely hates Rivera where it comes off almost personal.

 

 

 

...A person with knowledge of the Commanders’ thinking said the team isn’t favoring one particular offensive system. But Shurmur, like many of the team’s known candidates, is rooted in the West Coast offense, dating from his days on Andy Reid’s staff in Philadelphia.

 

 

“I’ve coached forever from that book,” he said in 2020. “I think when you look at offenses, though — we are all fond of the plays that work, but we as coaches are always trying to do the things our players do best.”

Denver hired Shurmur in part because of his penchant for big plays, a fact Washington’s staff surely eyed. The Giants had 143 plays of 20 or more yards from 2018 to 2019, the sixth most in the league in that span.

 

Bevell, 53, began his NFL coaching career with the Green Bay Packers as an assistant and later the quarterbacks coach from 2003 to 2005. He went on to become an offensive coordinator for the Vikings (2006-10), Seattle Seahawks (2011-17), Detroit Lions (2019-20) and Jacksonville Jaguars (2021). In Jacksonville, he was Urban Meyer’s play caller and took over as interim coach. In 2022, Bevell was named quarterbacks coach and passing game coordinator on Mike McDaniel’s Dolphins staff; the team runs a version of the West Coast offense.

 

Bevell has worked with top quarterbacks, including Brett Favre, Russell Willson (whom he scouted at Wisconsin), Matthew Stafford, Trevor Lawrence and Tua Tagovailoa.

As Wilson’s offensive coordinator from 2011 to 2017, Bevell helped the Seahawks go 72-39-1, claim two NFC championships (2013 and 2014) and win Super Bowl XLVIII.

 

 

....Charles London

A former Duke running back, London, 48, has been the Falcons’ quarterbacks coach for the past two seasons.

He started his NFL coaching career as a quality control coach for the Chicago Bears, spent a year (2010) as a pro scout for the Eagles, then returned to coaching as an offensive assistant for the Tennessee Titans (2011).

 

His bigger break came in 2012, when Bill O’Brien hired him as Penn State’s running backs coach. London followed O’Brien to the Houston Texans and later returned to Chicago to coach the Bears’ backs.

 

London lacks experience as a play caller and coordinator, but his knowledge of the running game aligns with Washington’s professed hope of becoming a run-first offense.

 

Eric Studesville

Studesville, 55, has spent 22 of his 26 seasons coaching in the NFL at the running backs position. His first stint was alongside Rivera, who was a defensive quality coach for the Bears when Studesville was their offensive quality control coach from 1997 to 2000. Studesville coached running backs for the Giants, Buffalo Bills and Broncos over a 16-year span.

 

In 2018, Studesville headed to Miami in the same role, and he and George Godsey were co-offensive coordinators in 2021.

Studesville is well-regarded in the league and especially among players. And though he also has roots primarily in the West Coast offense — having worked with play callers and coaches that include Sean Payton, Gary Kubiak and McDaniel — Studesville has worked in multiple systems, including the Air Coryell that served as the foundation for Turner’s offense.

 

 

Ken Zampese

The Commanders will consider their quarterbacks coach for the position and, like Shurmur, Ken Zampese, 55, boasts two important qualities: familiarity and experience. He has been in Washington for the entirety of Rivera’s tenure and spent last season working with Howell.

 

Zampese’s résumé includes six NFL teams, and he has worked primarily as an assistant and quarterbacks coach. He spent 13 seasons as the Cincinnati Bengals’ quarterbacks coach before he was elevated to coordinator for 2016 and part of 2017.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/01/18/commanders-offensive-coordinator-candidates-search/

Edited January 18, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[veteranskinsfan]

I agree that Sheehan has been all over the place.  He often switches positions throughout the year too.  Fans do not call him out on his radio show with the exception

of Sabah.   He has switched positions on his views about Rivera too.  Also, did you notice when his radio station lost their broadcast of the games then he got much 

more critical of the team, the owner and the Head Coach?  He kept defending Scott Turner throughout the season.  He will not admit when he is wrong too.  I may

listen to the Junkies more often even though they may be more negative.  I think over the last 20 years starting with Michael Wilbon and Tony Kornheiser from

the Washington Post the news media figured out if you came out against the team each year then you would most often appear right to the fan base and guarantee

keeping your news media job and not looking wrong given the team's record each season.  Being negative was always the safe thing to do from their perspectives.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

I agree that Sheehan has been all over the place.  He often switches positions throughout the year too.  Fans do not call him out on his radio show with the exception

of Sabah.   He has switched positions on his views about Rivera too.  Also, did you notice when his radio station lost their broadcast of the games then he got much 

more critical of the team, the owner and the Head Coach?  He kept defending Scott Turner throughout the season.  He will not admit when he is wrong too.  I may

listen to the Junkies more often even though they may be more negative.  I think over the last 20 years starting with Michael Wilbon and Tony Kornheiser from

the Washington Post the news media figured out if you came out against the team each year then you would most often appear right to the fan base and guarantee

keeping your news media job and not looking wrong given the team's record each season.  Being negative was always the safe thing to do from their perspectives.

 

I do think Sheehan has a great show so I'll preface it with that.  But man as a dude with takes, he's all over the place at times.

 

Zigs and zags I agree.  Giants were going to be really good 2 years back before that season, then they weren't and he didn't mention again that he thought highly about them before that season, like it never happened.   Instead he reminded people that he liked the Eagles and that he was right about that.  This season he didn't think the Giants would be good.  Even late into the season he thought this team was better than the Giants.  But a few days ago he takes a U-turn and says the Giants are better than Washington and will be better next year, too.

 

The range of points on next season as i mentioned don't add up that neatly.  He doesn't think much of Heinicke.  He likes this roster.  Yet he expects a down year next year with a new QB and a season of upgrades?

 

As for Rivera I think he's been somewhat consistent.  Decent coach -- but not a great coach.  The best coach that Dan can land.  Good person.  He tends to defend him when people take shots at him, he likes to say to callers you think he's a bad coach, I do not.  But yeah Rivera is going to pale to anything Shanahan related.  He was so pro Mike Shanahan when he was here, Czabe would joke about it, and ultimately Sheehan became friends with Mike Shanahan.  He'd build a shrine to Mike and Kyle if he could.  

 

I do though like listening to Sheehan in spite of that stuff.  IMO he's a legend as far as covering this team and DC radio.  I like him over the Junkies because IMO the Junkies depart too much off of sports and when they do talk sports the Junkies IMO are below average as to being informed.  I don't always agree with Sheehan but IMO he's informed and I like his genuine passion for sports -- the Junkies to me don't come off as dudes who love sports.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

Having a celebrity back up is fine if your starter is good. People in Philly were calling for Minshew to be the eagles QB in the preseason and Hurts shut it down.

[veteranskinsfan]

I miss Czabe.  I listened to him even when he was just on Saturdays.  I guess he retired.  I know he did a show I think in Milwaukee before too.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

I miss Czabe.  I listened to him even when he was just on Saturdays.  I guess he retired.  I know he did a show I think in Milwaukee before too.

 

I think he's still doing that show in Milwaukee, he used it as an excuse to become a Packers fan now.    He was back then a diehard fan, though hated Dan, and also hated the idea of ever changing the name.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[woodpecker]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think he's still doing that show in Milwaukee, he used it as an excuse to become a Packers fan now.   

Love Czabe but yeah, becoming a Packers fan was lame. He does a daily podcast now plus the Milwaukee show.