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The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

Koolblue13

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skinny21

skinny21

Posted
Posted
Just now, wit33 said:


This would be a home run if Washington coaches love Howell and feel he can be the starter next year. So many doors open up to put together an elite roster. 

It would be risky, but if they went this route, with a cheap vet for insurance (maybe keep Fromm as the 3rd?), they’d have ample resources to keep guys, add to the oline, and still target some extra spots (corner/linebacker for example).  Team doesn’t feel that far off, so improving the oline and getting even marginally better qb play could be enough.

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method man

method man

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

It would be risky, but if they went this route, with a cheap vet for insurance (maybe keep Fromm as the 3rd?), they’d have ample resources to keep guys, add to the oline, and still target some extra spots (corner/linebacker for example).  Team doesn’t feel that far off, so improving the oline and getting even marginally better qb play could be enough.


No way on Fromm. They could bring someone like a Minshew in to compete with the other two or go with one vet and draft a Haener type in rd 4

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zCommander

zCommander

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

It would be risky, but if they went this route, with a cheap vet for insurance (maybe keep Fromm as the 3rd?), they’d have ample resources to keep guys, add to the oline, and still target some extra spots (corner/linebacker for example).  Team doesn’t feel that far off, so improving the oline and getting even marginally better qb play could be enough.

 

That cheap vet might be Wentz. If another team is not going to pay him more. Plus familiarity with Turner's offense as well.

 

But my ultimate preference would be starting Howell next year. 

 

Edited by zCommander
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bowhunter

bowhunter

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Posted
17 minutes ago, wit33 said:


This would be a home run if Washington coaches love Howell and feel he can be the starter next year. So many doors open up to put together an elite roster. 

Here's Howells pre-season film. Kid has a little Moxie himself and definitely some Zip on the ball. Is "Mox-Zip" a word?

 

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skinny21

skinny21

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, method man said:


No way on Fromm. They could bring someone like a Minshew in to compete with the other two or go with one vet and draft a Haener type in rd 4

As our 3rd qb?  Don’t get me wrong, I could care less about Fromm, it’s just that he’s just been in the system for a bit now, so has a slight leg up on other developmental qbs we might bring in (and doesn’t cost a draft pick).  I’d like a developmental guy with more promise - like Haener - but I might prefer to draft a guy that could actually help the team next year - a 4th round corner for example.  

 

I’d be down with adding a guy like Minishew, but if we’re talking about paying him and another vet, you start dipping into the pool of money I’d like to be using to retain/extend our own.  Not saying it’s a bad idea, just not how I’d lean.

 

Edit:  just to make sure we’re on the same page, you know Fromm’s been our #3 while Wentz was inactive?  Again, I have zero attachment to the guy.

 

@zCommander Yeah, I could see them bringing Wentz back.  I’d question the money, and whether he stunts Howell’s growth/opportunity, but I think he’s a semi-reasonable choice for the vet role.

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NickyJ

NickyJ

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Posted
21 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

What will Ron Rivera do when Taylor Heinicke’s magic finally runs out?

It was a well-written article, but a completely pointless one too. We already know what Ron wlll do after Heinicke's luck runs out. He'll start him for the next game too.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, wit33 said:


This would be a home run if Washington coaches love Howell and feel he can be the starter next year. So many doors open up to put together an elite roster. 

 

It would be a game changer.  And I don't think its ridiculous with THIS roster.  If we had the roster from even two years ago, I wouldn't be that jazzed.  It's not that I am not intrigued by Howell with a weaker roster.  I have been and still am.  But there is always a wildcard with rookie QBs, especially ones that aren't transcedent talented types.   You don't know if they can read a defense, do protections and see the field until the script is played out.  My point is Howell doesn't have to be killer good to take this team further than what we got. 

 

And I am not resigned that the O line is going to be poor next season.  In my view we've gone to the extremes from

 

A.  Masko is a genius.  The O line is always going to be good with him running that unit.

 

B.  Our O line is down for the count, it will take years to improve -- and almost like a resignation like bad O line is what this team does.

 

IMO, Rivera is used to good O line play.  He's hinted that he's pissed about the unit and will fix it.  I trust that.

 

Between Ron's comments yesterday that Taylor should run more.    Him still mostly not pulling the ball in RO -- but I'll give him kudos for taking off a few times in the last game for change.  Heinicke saying he told Wentz that with his stature -- all it takes is one hit and Wentz is back in the game.  And hearing today that Heinicke said in the locker room that he is really banged up after Sunday -- it made me think of Howell some.

 

Yes, Howell is short like Heinicke but he looks like a bigger bone dude who can take the punishment better.  And he's fearless about running.  If we are running RPO, RO he's not going to be scared to pull the ball and take off.  

 

You can see how this defense was so scared of Daniel Jones taking off on the edges that the D line played wider and that opened things in the middle for some nice runs.  

 

Teams would have to game plan for Howell's legs alone.   Howell can stretch the field, his arm is Wentz level strong.  He can make some of those wicked hard deep outs that Heinicke struggles with at times.  He's also more accurate than Taylor and Wentz.

 

The question of course is can he read an NFL defense and set protections.  As far as setting protections, he's a hard worker who likely would put in the study time.  And smart considering his Wonderlic score.

 

From reading about him and watching his interviews, he's a bit shy, uber religious and likes to wear it on his sleeve and talk about that like Wentz does but not aloof like him.  So personality maybe somewhere in between Heinicke and Wentz.  He comes off as not being the belle of the ball personality like Heinicke but also not as aloof as Wentz is.  But closer to the shy side than the extrovert.

 

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/sam-howell/97599/draft-profile

 

Howell may have taken a step back as a passer, but he proved to be a legitimate threat as a runner in 2021. He broke an absurd 63 tackles and ran for 1,072 yards this past season. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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KDawg

KDawg

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

No. First they need to see Wentz for two more game before they can move on from him. 

No, they do not. Not for any reason whatsoever. If Howell is believed in then why waste time with a guy who is going to cost $26M against the cap next year and could allow us to sign two competent OL?

 

Makes no sense. See what you have in the rookie and let that dictate the plan. 

 

Playing Wentz over Howell at this point is stupid. 

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It would be a game changer.  And I don't think its ridiculous with THIS roster.  If we had the roster from even two years ago, I wouldn't be that jazzed.  It's not that I am not intrigued by Howell with a weaker roster.  I have been and still am.  But there is always a wildcard with rookie QBs, especially ones that aren't transcedent talented types.   You don't know if they can read a defense, do protections and see the field until the script is played out.  My point is Howell doesn't have to be killer good to take this team further than what we got. 

 

And I am not resigned that the O line is going to be poor next season.  In my view we've gone to the extremes from

 

A.  Masko is a genius.  The O line is always going to be good with him running that unit.

 

B.  Our O line is down for the count, it will take years to improve -- and almost like a resignation like bad O line is what this team does.

 

IMO, Rivera is used to good O line play.  He's hinted that he's pissed about the unit and will fix it.  I trust that.

 

Between Ron's comments yesterday that Taylor should run more.    Him still mostly not pulling the ball in RO -- but I'll give him kudos for taking off a few times in the last game for change.  Him saying he told Wentz that with his stature -- all it takes is one hit and Wentz is back in the game.  And hearing today that Heinicke said in the locker room that he is really banged up after Sunday -- it made me think of Howell some.

 

Yes, Howell is short like Heinicke but he looks like a bigger bone dude who can take the punishment better.  And he's fearless about running.  If we are running RPO, RO he's not going to be scared to pull the ball and take off.  

 

You can see how this defense was so scared of Daniel Jones taking off on the edges that the D line played wider and that opened things in the middle for some nice runs.  

 

Teams would have to game plan for Howell's legs alone.   Howell can stretch the field, his arm is Wentz level strong.  He can make some of those wicked hard deep outs that Heinicke struggles with at times.  He's also more accurate than Taylor and Wentz.

 

The question of course is can he read an NFL defense and set protections.  As far as setting protections, he's a hard worker who likely would put in the study time.  And smart considering his Wonderlic score.

 

From reading about him and watching his interviews, he's a bit shy, uber religious and likes to talk about that like Wentz but not aloof like him.  So personality maybe somewhere in between Heinicke and Wentz.  He comes off as not being the belle of the ball personality like Heinicke but also not as aloof as Wentz is.  But closer to the shy side than the extrovert.

 

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/sam-howell/97599/draft-profile

 

Howell may have taken a step back as a passer, but he proved to be a legitimate threat as a runner in 2021. He broke an absurd 63 tackles and ran for 1,072 yards this past season. 

 

I don't understand why folks are afraid of Howell but are fine with Heinicke. It makes absolutely no sense. What are we going to do, be worse? I can see that concern with Wentz. He's a statue. But Howell lost all of his weapons and played behind an OL that you would have started on his senior season and he was still fantastic. He fell because he wasn't a Heisman Trophy candidate and that spooked teams. The guy was being heralded as a top 10 pick in the years prior. And his senior season was not a fall off year. It was a different year.

 

I think the NFL missed the boat on Howell. Badly. 

 

And I can't wait to see if I'm right. 

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ColonialWBSkinsFan

ColonialWBSkinsFan

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It would be a game changer.  And I don't think its ridiculous with THIS roster.  If we had the roster from even two years ago, I wouldn't be that jazzed.  It's not that I am not intrigued by Howell.  I have been and still am.  But there is always a wildcard with rookie QBs, especially ones that aren't transcedent talented types.   You don't know if they can read a defense, do protections and see the field until the script is played out.

 

Yes, Howell is short like Heinicke but he looks like a bigger bone dude who can take the punishment better.  And he's fearless about running.  If we are running RPO, RO he's not going to be scared to pull the ball and take off.  

 

You can see how this defense was so scared of Daniel Jones taking off on the edges that the D line played wider and that opened things in the middle for some nice runs.  

 

Teams would have to game plan for Howell's legs alone.   Howell can stretch the field, his arm is Wentz level strong.  He can make some of those wicked hard deep outs that Heinicke struggles with at times.  He's also more accurate than Taylor and Wentz.

 

The question of course is can he read an NFL defense and set protections.  As far as setting protections, he's a hard worker who likely would put in the study time.  And smart considering his Wonderlic score.

 

 

 

 

This, this and this.   I'm a UNC alum, and therefore VERY much biased, but I watched every single minute of every game this guy played in college for 3 seasons.   To me, he combines everything you like about Taylor (mobility, leadership, and a little bit of **** it) , and everything you like about Wentz (arm strength, plays off schedule), while minimizing the stuff you don't like.  It's likely too late now in the season but they should have gone to Howell after Taylor struggled against Atlanta.  To at least see what we have... I would have liked our chances of winning at least one of the Giants games with Howell instead of Heinicke.

Edited by ColonialWBSkinsFan
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ColonialWBSkinsFan

ColonialWBSkinsFan

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, mistertim said:

Howell's playing style actually reminds me a lot of Heinicke, but he's got a much thicker build and he has a gun. And he actually runs.

 

So he reminds you of Heinicke if Heinicke actually had an NFL-level quarterback skill set?  Gotcha.  And I agree completely.

Edited by ColonialWBSkinsFan
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BatteredFanSyndrome

BatteredFanSyndrome

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, ColonialWBSkinsFan said:

 

The O Line isn't good enough to give Wentz time to make throws.  He's a statue back there and will get pulverized against SF just like he did against Philly and Dallas when he started against them.

There were several factors aside from Wentz being a statue:


A. Turner was hellbent on 5 and 7 step drops wanting to air it out.

 

B. Wentz not being decisive enough to pull the trigger when he hits the last step of his drop.

 

C. Absolutely zero threat of running the football.

 

What we’ve seen from Heinicke of late is B.  There were a # of opportunities on Sunday night for him to get the ball out fast and he didn’t, he patted the ball and either took a sack or made an errant pass.  He doesn’t appear to be seeing the field on the quick stuff, and without that - behind this OL, he’s just as useless if not more than Wentz.

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NewCliche21

NewCliche21

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

<snip>

 

I think the NFL missed the boat on Howell. Badly. 

 

And I can't wait to see if I'm right. 

 

I wasn't in the thread when we picked him up, but what was your hot take when we got him (not so much where, just that we got him after the 2nd round) before knowing about Wentz?  And then once we got Wentz?  I really respect your QB takes on Haskins and Fields (you were wrong and then nope, you were right) so I'm just curious.

And I'm 100% with you, which according to my wife, means you're 200% wrong.

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ColonialWBSkinsFan

ColonialWBSkinsFan

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

There were several factors aside from Wentz being a statue:


A. Turner was hellbent on 5 and 7 step drops wanting to air it out.

 

B. Wentz not being decisive enough to pull the trigger when he hits the last step of his drop.

 

C. Absolutely zero threat of running the football.

 

What we’ve seen from Heinicke of late is B.  There were a # of opportunities on Sunday night for him to get the ball out fast and he didn’t, he patted the ball and either took a sack or made an errant pass.  He doesn’t appear to be seeing the field on the quick stuff, and without that - behind this OL, he’s just as useless if not more than Wentz.

 

You are right.  And I agree.  That's why I'm banging the drum for Howell at this point, per my other recent posts here.  They just screwed up and should have gotten him meaningful snaps against the Texans and Falcons.  I would take our chances this week with our rookie QB Howell against their rookie QB Purdy.  But the coaching staff never gave him a shot.  And that is what bothers me the most.

 

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FootballZombie

FootballZombie

Posted
Posted

I got no problem w/ Howell being an option to start next year if we work him into some playing time this season. He has promise.

 

Without that however it feels like a pipe dream. We are in a situation where we have to bring in a QB, Wentz again or otherwise, and it will probably be more than one unless you lure a big fish. Any QB we bring in will be a gross asset difference then Howell.

 

For Howell to have a shot at starting early next year he has to get an oppo sometime soon so he has a fighting chance to counteract that.

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KDawg

KDawg

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

I wasn't in the thread when we picked him up, but what was your hot take when we got him (not so much where, just that we got him after the 2nd round) before knowing about Wentz?  And then once we got Wentz?  I really respect your QB takes on Haskins and Fields (you were wrong and then nope, you were right) so I'm just curious.

And I'm 100% with you, which according to my wife, means you're 200% wrong.

 

Howell was my QB1 in this draft class and had him as a first rounder. Getting him in the fifth was like we won the lottery. 

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50yrSKINSfan

50yrSKINSfan

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, wit33 said:


This would be a home run if Washington coaches love Howell and feel he can be the starter next year. So many doors open up to put together an elite roster. 

IMO if we loose Sat and Detroit wins then our playoff chances are slim and so playing Howell in our last two games may be a good idea.

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