The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[fearlessNelms]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

but this is the concern. The NFL cycle recycles the backups in the league at a rapid pace. If you are a lower round rookie and don’t get a chance to play your job is going to be in jeopardy the following season. Howell, despite my belief that he’s a good quarterback, is facing an uphill battle.

 

I figure Wentz is gone. That leaves Howell and Heinicke. Heinicke is a free agent, but I’m willing to bet they are going to re-sign him. Turner loves him. Rivera seems to love him. The locker room loves him. 
 

So let’s assume going into April we have Heinicke and Howell.

 

First off, as a Howell fan that even scares me. Howell won’t have taken a snap and Heinicke is… well, Heinicke.

 

If we do something crazy like draft Anthony Richardson (I have a feeling and I don’t love it) that puts him as an automatic roster lock. 
 

Who is the odd man out? The QB who hasn’t taken a snap or the guy who has all the moxie a human can ask for?

 

If they don’t attempt to address QB Rivera is going to get raked over the coals the second something goes on wrong. Which… it’s the media so it is what it is. But that’s not something any organization wants. 
 

Howell has a tough road ahead. If they do it purely based on a play vs. play competition with Heinicke I think Howell can beat him out next year (no, not this year for those of you who struggle with nuanced conversation) but I just don’t see it happening that way. If coaches trust a guy like they do with Heinicke it’s tough to convince them to move on.

 

My hope is someone offers Heinicke more than he’s worth and he leaves for greener pastures and then we add a vet or a rookie or one of each to go with Howell. And either can be a high end guy, too. I just don’t want to see them throw in the towel on Howell.

Great points and just want to say I agree with the say no to Richardson. To your point of a QB competition between Heinicke and Howell- I think Howell has the edge physically with his size and arm. What we don't know and won't know about Howell until we see him play is the intangible stuff Heinicke has- although I watched quite a few NC games when Howell was there and there's no questioning his toughness.

 

With Heinicke having the edge in playing experience, belief from coaches and players along with his knowledge of the offensive system, he has a clear edge. But Howell has him physically and with a year of the offensive system in him going into training camp, I believe Howell will come into camp a much more confident player and that could make things very interesting. 

[tmandoug1]

19 minutes ago, fearlessNelms said:

Great points and just want to say I agree with the say no to Richardson. To your point of a QB competition between Heinicke and Howell- I think Howell has the edge physically with his size and arm. What we don't know and won't know about Howell until we see him play is the intangible stuff Heinicke has- although I watched quite a few NC games when Howell was there and there's no questioning his toughness.

 

With Heinicke having the edge in playing experience, belief from coaches and players along with his knowledge of the offensive system, he has a clear edge. But Howell has him physically and with a year of the offensive system in him going into training camp, I believe Howell will come into camp a much more confident player and that could make things very interesting. 

Just a thought and maybe someone here can help me out. Do we hear any rumors of him showing up early or staying late to get his footwork right? Is he going the extra mile to show the coaches he is busting tail to overtake Heinicke.....this would make a huge difference to me if there was a show of work ethic and dedication. I also think if we get eliminated from the playoffs we start him immediately. 

[Zim489]

Vomit at Carr or Jimmy G. Just signing up for mediocrity 

[Conn]

40 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Vomit at Carr or Jimmy G. Just signing up for mediocrity 

Not on the topic of these two vet options, but just as a jumping off point on your posts (which I empathize with because I would have liked a true gutter-scraping tear-down rebuild as well):
 

We are not going to earn the 1.01-1.03 pick with this roster. We are not going to tear down this roster to get a top-3 pick unless a lot more changes than just the GM and HC—whoever is hired to build this organization under a new owner is going to build on what we have, not tear it down. You need to find a new angle to grind if you want to have ideas to put forward for how this team can become a winner, because the “tanking for the top QB prospect in a great QB class” idea you’ve latched onto is not realistic for most franchises—but it’s especially unrealistic for this one. So either your posts can be irrelevant doomsday fodder for eternity or you can start brainstorming some other, better ideas. Just my opinion, feel free to discard it. But you’re a broken record with zero chance of receiving validation and this roster actually finally has some fun talent to root for and is about to finally have a new owner. So finding a more sustainable, likely way to envision our future seems like it would benefit you. 

Edited December 8, 2022 by Conn

[Skinsinparadise]

56 minutes ago, Conn said:

Not on the topic of these two vet options, but just as a jumping off point on your posts (which I empathize with because I would have liked a true gutter-scraping tear-down rebuild as well):
 

We are not going to earn the 1.01-1.03 pick with this roster. We are not going to tear down this roster to get a top-3 pick unless a lot more changes than just the GM and HC—whoever is hired to build this organization under a new owner is going to build on what we have, not tear it down. You need to find a new angle to grind if you want to have ideas to put forward for how this team can become a winner, because the “tanking for the top QB prospect in a great QB class” idea you’ve latched onto is not realistic for most franchises—but it’s especially unrealistic for this one. So either your posts can be irrelevant doomsday fodder for eternity or you can start brainstorming some other, better ideas. Just my opinion, feel free to discard it. But you’re a broken record with zero chance of receiving validation and this roster actually finally has some fun talent to root for and is about to finally have a new owner. So finding a more sustainable, likely way to envision our future seems like it would benefit you. 

 

Agree.

 

Yeah very few Commanders fans as far as I can tell, here or on twitter, talk radio are thinking lets tear the whole thing down and start over.  Maybe last season, some would be on board with this.  But this team's defense looks seriously good.  the weapons are good.  It's O line and QB that needs to be fixed.  The sentiment of most of this fan base as far as I can tell isn't to burn it down and start over again. 

 

I didn't like the Alex Smith trade for example at the time because I thought Alex married to a mediocre roster to be yawn.  But if we made a similar trade today, I'd feel differently. 

 

Whether fans are delusional about it or not, that remains to be seen.  But the sentiment from the dude below isn't unique.  Most fans from what I can tell feel good about this roster

 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[SkinsFTW]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.

 

Yeah very few Commanders fans as far as I can tell, here or on twitter, talk radio are thinking lets tear the whole thing down and start over.  Maybe last season, some would be on board with this. 

 

2 months ago...The OL sucks, there is no QB, the running game sucks, the OC sucks, the DC sucks, HC needs to be fired, the entire DL is overrated, there isn't a single decent LB on the team, all of the CB's suck. Tress Way is the best player and he punts the ball away to the other team. 

[KDawg]

Just now, SkinsFTW said:

 

2 months ago...The OL sucks, there is no QB, the running game sucks, the OC sucks, the DC sucks, HC needs to be fired, the entire DL is overrated, there isn't a single decent LB on the team, all of the CB's suck. Tress Way is the best player and he punts the ball away to the other team. 

The OL does suck, QB is an issue, OC is and has been fine, DC got his mojo back from the summer’s events, HC is fine but clock management stinks, Just Sweat is overrated on the DL, Jamin Davis is solid, Fuller and St Juste are good, Tress Way is still one of our best players

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

2 months ago...The OL sucks, there is no QB, the running game sucks, the OC sucks, the DC sucks, HC needs to be fired, the entire DL is overrated, there isn't a single decent LB on the team, all of the CB's suck. Tress Way is the best player and he punts the ball away to the other team. 

 

It's the NFL and fans are emotional.  1-4 sucks.  the sky is falling comes with the turf when things aren't going well. 

[NoCalMike]

Here is where I am at with Howell.  Realistically it is too early to make any final judgement.  The guy has the physical tools, but so do most QBs that are drafted.

 

This is what I will say though, assuming Wentz is gone after this season, that leaves Howell & Heinicke on the roster (is Heinicke a FA too though?).

 

Through Heinicke's entire time here he has been mostly ranging from average to mediocre.  He has no arm, his footwork is not good, he often throws off his back foot, his size affects his ability to see the field in the pocket (that would be the one area Howell could have an issue with too, tbh) and if you are watching the tape after the games, he is missing things out there that leaves points on the board.  I am not talking about plays that the defense blows up, but rather plays where he has a pocket, but simply locks onto someone pre snap and never even seems to look the other way.  He misses easy throws like Logan being wide open, and he also completely missed Dotson in the endzone after he worked a defender on a drive they had to settle on a FG from the 5 yard line.  Heinicke is out there primarily for 2 reasons, his mobility can buy an extra half second or so, and his knowledge of the offense.  Otherwise, the guy has no business out there.

 

Howell being a 5th round pick who needs to work on some mechanics, I can understand why he isn't playing this season, it makes sense, however if you are telling me he needs more than a single offseason in order to go out and play as well as Heinicke is right now?  I'd be concerned with what the coaches think his ceiling is. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Yeah very few Commanders fans as far as I can tell, here or on twitter, talk radio are thinking lets tear the whole thing down and start over. 

Paging @Zim489

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Conn said:

Not on the topic of these two vet options, but just as a jumping off point on your posts (which I empathize with because I would have liked a true gutter-scraping tear-down rebuild as well):

The thing is, we kindof did have a full tear down and rebuild.  
 

We ended up 3-13 in 2019, got the #2 pick, and basically turned over the entire roster absent a few really good previous draft picks like Allen, Sweat, Payne and Terry.  From the 2019 team to now, there are very few players remaining.  
 

Basically the entire OL minus Rouiller, TE group, WR group (minus Terry) are all new.  A lot of work to do there…
 

On defense, essentially everybody except the DL is new.  
 

So we did have basically an entire rebuild, it just happened over a few years rather than 1.

 

And of course, the QB position we tried to address twice and that hasn’t been completed yet. 

[Warhead36]

Yeah we pretty much did rebuild. We had an awful year, then followed it up with two back to back 7 win seasons which is about right. 

 

We should be pushing for 10+ wins this year which is very much a possibility, although we went about it differently than I think people thought we would.

[FootballZombie]

Jimmy G has proven the ability to provide competent QB play or better when healthy. He is not a world beater, but similar to his super bowl run w/ the 9ers, you don't need to be when the rest of the roster is performing at a certain level. Just basic mediocre play from the QB spot on this roster would be a monumental improvement and would solidify the squad.

 

Carr would be unholy. Your smashing your head against the Eagles w/ him. Sky is the limit.

[Renegade7]

You can't bench a guy dressed like he's about to board The Titanic on its maiden voyage...you just cant...

 

 

[tshile]

Jimmy G eh?

 

the guy we backed away from last year cause he was having shoulder surgery?

 

he’s currently *checks notes* done for the year with a broken foot, right?

 

maybe it’s time to let Jimmy G go and think about other options. 
 

(Fwiw I always liked him and thought he caught a bad rap)

[DJHJR86]

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Whether fans are delusional about it or not, that remains to be seen.  But the sentiment from the dude below isn't unique.  Most fans from what I can tell feel good about this roster

 

This team is not a quarterback away from winning a Super Bowl.  They will never win one with Dan Snyder as the owner.  Never.  

[Skinsinparadise]

39 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

This team is not a quarterback away from winning a Super Bowl.  They will never win one with Dan Snyder as the owner.  Never.  

 

I quoted a fan who said that and did so for a specific reason to address a specific post. That wasn't my view but am not a mile away from it either.  My personal take is O line and QB are the spots that need upgrade.  But yeah the rest of the roster is really good.  As I've mentioned Cooley among others thinks the roster is really good -- SB worthy if they improve the two spots.  

 

As far as Dan Snyder, the timing of the point seems off.  I get the idea of stewing in the idea we are stuck with that dude forever hence no hope but does that apply to today?  Looks like we potentially got some light at the end of the tunnel, now.  I guess will see.  😀

Edited December 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

Some valuable context for people enamored with the team’s locker room leaders getting behind a backup QB:

 

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

7 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

You can't bench a guy dressed like he's about to board The Titanic on its maiden voyage...you just cant...

 

 

 

 

I see this and I can't help imagining Taylor bad ass strutting in slow motion to this tune...

 

 

 

 

.

Edited December 8, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[Skinsinparadise]

Combining podcasts from Logan Paulsen, Finlay and Cooley on Sheehan.

 

A.  Cooley goes Taylor had to run more and should do so to deal with the defensive fronts-man scheme posed by the Giants.

 

B.  If I recall it was Finlay talked about the RO plays last week where Heinicke didn't keep it and the Giants just then crashed on the RBs.  Hailey joked in a comparison as I do about how Heinicke not running is very Bradyish.  And Hailey is a big Heinicke guy typically.

 

C.  Cooley likes aspects of Heinicke's game, gave him a. C for his performance against the Giants.  Said his inability to stretch the field limits the offense and complemented the Giants for how they schemed against that.  I only heard the parts that Sheehan put on his show so I have have to listen to the actual podcast.

 

D. Logan Paulsen previously critical against Scott Turner, really likes how Turner has been calling the game for Heinicke.  

 

E.  Paulsen thought the Giants defensive coordinator is really good and schemed up pressure against this offense really well by sliding their pressure away from max protect section, sometimes last second, where the blitzing defender moved from left to right or right to left which the offense didn't adjust to on the fly and just let it play out. 

 

He suggested if Heinicke was more experienced he could have helped adjust some of that because to his eyes what the Giants were doing was obvious, including on the play where Heinicke got sacked towards the end of the game, where the edge rusher wasn't accounted for.  In short, the Giants were playing chess with their pressures with last second changes and it worked again and again and again. 

Edited December 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[zCommander]

55 minutes ago, Conn said:

Some valuable context for people enamored with the team’s locker room leaders getting behind a backup QB:

 

 

 

Like Terry said it is infectious. 

 

Here what teammates feel about White. Looks like the moxie is spreading lol

 

“My job as a quarterback is to put our team in the best position, and that’s scoring when we’re in the red zone. It starts with me. I gotta figure out how to put the ball in the end zone, and if we do that, I think we win the game.”

 

Here's what teammate Garrett Wilson said about Mike White: 

 

“I'd go to war for that boy. He’s got something special about him.”

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by zCommander

[Califan007 The Constipated]

12 hours ago, KDawg said:

Tress Way is still one of our best players

 

 

Tress Way: Why is this Punter so Popular? | NFL Films Presents

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I take Kiper with a grain of salt but I find him entertaining.  Among other things he has Richardson ranked as the 19th best prospect in the draft, all positions combined.  I think there is going to be a lot of variance on him.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/34633986/2023-nfl-draft-rankings-mel-kiper-big-board-top-prospects-every-position

19. Anthony Richardson, QB, Florida

HT: 6-4 | WT: 232 | Previously: NR

Well, I wrote before the season that I was putting Richardson in my Big Board because of his potential. You can't coach his talent and physical ability, and NFL coaches will see the tools and try to develop him now that he has decided to enter the draft. He had an up-and-down season, throwing 17 touchdown passes and nine interceptions while running for nine scores. His 70.6 QBR ranked 35th in the country.

Richardson is still very raw -- his mechanics and footwork need a lot of work. He has accuracy issues on shorter throws that should be easier. And yet, the arm strength and the dual-threat ability are so intriguing that a team near the end of Round 1 absolutely could take him and let him develop. What I say about the draft is that we're trying to project who a prospect could be, not evaluate exactly what he is right now. Richardson hasn't come close to his ceiling. He's going to be a polarizing prospect for the next few months.

 

2023 NFL draft rankings at every position

Quarterbacks

1. Will Levis, Kentucky
2. Bryce Young, Alabama
3. C.J. Stroud, Ohio State
4. Anthony Richardson, Florida
5. Jayden Daniels, LSU
6. Hendon Hooker, Tennessee
7. Jaren Hall, BYU
8. Jake Haener, Fresno State
9. Stetson Bennett, Georgia
10. Tanner McKee, Stanford

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I take Kiper with a grain of salt but I find him entertaining.  Among other things he has Richardson ranked as the 19th best prospect in the draft, all positions combined.  I think there is going to be a lot of variance on him.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/34633986/2023-nfl-draft-rankings-mel-kiper-big-board-top-prospects-every-position

19. Anthony Richardson, QB, Florida

HT: 6-4 | WT: 232 | Previously: NR

Well, I wrote before the season that I was putting Richardson in my Big Board because of his potential. You can't coach his talent and physical ability, and NFL coaches will see the tools and try to develop him now that he has decided to enter the draft. He had an up-and-down season, throwing 17 touchdown passes and nine interceptions while running for nine scores. His 70.6 QBR ranked 35th in the country.

Richardson is still very raw -- his mechanics and footwork need a lot of work. He has accuracy issues on shorter throws that should be easier. And yet, the arm strength and the dual-threat ability are so intriguing that a team near the end of Round 1 absolutely could take him and let him develop. What I say about the draft is that we're trying to project who a prospect could be, not evaluate exactly what he is right now. Richardson hasn't come close to his ceiling. He's going to be a polarizing prospect for the next few months.

 

2023 NFL draft rankings at every position

Quarterbacks

1. Will Levis, Kentucky
2. Bryce Young, Alabama
3. C.J. Stroud, Ohio State
4. Anthony Richardson, Florida
5. Jayden Daniels, LSU
6. Hendon Hooker, Tennessee
7. Jaren Hall, BYU
8. Jake Haener, Fresno State
9. Stetson Bennett, Georgia
10. Tanner McKee, Stanford

 

He will likely go mid first. Young, Stroud, Levis, Richardson would be my prediction. Could see Richardson leap a bunch of them, too.

 

Houston may be inept enough to go for him vs. Young, but I doubt it. Young will be a Texan. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

He will likely go mid first. Young, Stroud, Levis, Richardson would be my prediction. Could see Richardson leap a bunch of them, too.

 

Houston may be inept enough to go for him vs. Young, but I doubt it. Young will be a Texan. 

 

I think Young is slam dunk going first.  Draft media seems to love Levis -- maybe i am watching the wrong games but I have a hard time seeing it with him as to his pocket presence, decision making, touch on the first level throws.   I am not much of a Stroud guy.

 

Richardson intrigues me but i admit I haven't really studied him yet so i might change my mind.  Haener was my guy last year as to a 3rd-4th rounder type but alas he didn't come out -- he's be my guy again in that range of the draft. 

Edited December 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise