The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

 

I was obviously just making a joke by relating the amazing thing we just witnessed last night to Heinicke, and Mayfield is a former 1st overall pick with an NFL arm so it’s not exactly a fair comparison. Funny to see which posters took it as good natured fun and which ones got their hackles raised over it though. 

 

But um yeah Mayfield doing something that’s almost never been done in the history of the NFL in the 4th quarter after two days on the Rams roster, then head-butting his own teammate into oblivion in victorious ferver, is higher on the fictitious moxie scale if we were to create such a thing. Cosmic, even. 

 

It's not higher on the moxie scale, though. At all. Fictitious or not lol...

[Rex Tomb]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

So we’re at a place where we are downplaying the accomplishment of a quarterback going to a new team and system on Tuesday and with one practice under their belt put up similar numbers to our current starter on a Thursday?

Eh... Bye Week Filling of Time? 

 

[Conn]

4 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

It's not higher on the moxie scale, though. At all. Fictitious or not lol...

Okay. And even though this is a dumb argument we’re engaging in, I’m going to insist that you’re incorrect.

 

Historically unlikely comeback. After two days on the team with players he’s never thrown to. Baker wins the moxie-off in this case. 
 

Obviously the defense deserves credit as well (and the Raiders defensive coordinator calling press man coverage for some reason at the end) but that’s always the case in a comeback victory. 

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Conn

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I dunno man, a former first rounder who’s been casted off twice in a year, basically a punching bag, takes a flight to LA on a Tuesday, is activated and inserted in the first quarter of a Thursday night game, team down multiple scores and he eventually leads a 98 yard game-winning drive capped off by a touchdown pass.

 

That one is for the ages.

[DJHJR86]

I think Wentz actually has a decent chance of a career resurgence somewhere, but it's going to have to be similar to Tannehill.  He's going to have to go somewhere as the backup and eventually earn his way back to the starting role.  Derek Carr might be able to do this as well.  I think they are very similar quarterbacks.  I think Rivera is going to do what he did last year: be very aggressive at getting a quarterback.  But I don't necessarily think he has to be.  We have Howell.  There's the draft.  I wouldn't mind taking the "safe" route if there was no QB in the draft that they loved: sign Gardner Minshew & Heinicke, and have them compete with Howell for the starting job in 2023.  I kind of wanted them to trade for Minshew back in 2021 to compete with Heinicke.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

32 minutes ago, Conn said:

Okay. And even though this is a dumb argument we’re engaging in, I’m going to insist that you’re incorrect.

 

Historically unlikely comeback. After two days on the team with players he’s never thrown to. Baker wins the moxie-off in this case. 
 

Obviously the defense deserves credit as well (and the Raiders defensive coordinator calling press man coverage for some reason at the end) but that’s always the case in a comeback victory. 

 

 

 

The "2 days on the team" argument is rather weak...switching from one team to another is not some Grand Canyon-sized chasm that's next to impossible for a QB to overcome, especially one who has been a starter for 64 of the last 76 games.

 

The "13 or more points with 4 minutes to go" lacks context as well...the comeback started with 12 minutes left on the clock, not 4. They were on the Raiders' 2 yard line when the 4 minute mark hit lol...the way it's presented, though, makes it sound like Mayfield drove down the field twice in 4 minutes. He threw one pass for 1 yard within those 4 minutes on that first drive. I'm far less impressed with the "historic" 4 minute mark stat than with the entirety of that 9 minute drive, but then there have been numerous times where a team fought back from 13 points down with 12 minutes to go (by the way, Brunell overcame a 13 point deficit against the Cowboys with like 5 minutes to go--and HE actually started both TD drives within that time span).

 

So,  no...not as overly impressed with it as you appear to be. I said right after it happened that Mayfield's drive was impressive on the game day thread, and as it was happening I thought it reminded me a lot of what we've seen Heinicke do before (especially against the Colts).

Edited December 9, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

In a league that’s seen some pretty good QBs go from good/great to crap after switching teams, with the whole offseason under their belt, it’s somehow not a big deal for a QB to show up 48 hours before kickoff and win a game capitalized by a TD pass on a 98 yard drive.

 

Eh.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

Okay. And even though this is a dumb argument we’re engaging in, I’m going to insist that you’re incorrect.

 

Historically unlikely comeback. After two days on the team with players he’s never thrown to. Baker wins the moxie-off in this case. 
 

 

And also, just to point out this "down 13 with 4 minutes to go" stat:

 

You said "historically unlikely comeback"...it's happened 3 times so far this season lol. Joe Flacco did it as well. But it sounds more impressive to lump Mayfield in with Tom Brady and leave Flacco off the list.

 

And I'm gonna assume the only other QB to do this was Brunell...because the Skins were down by 13 points with 3:55 to go, when Brunell threw the bomb to Santana on 4th down. If so, wild to think that no other QB in the history of the NFL did what Brunell did that night...until this year, where three different QBs were able to do it lol...

 

EDIT: Annnnd I realized Schefter wasn't talking about in the history of the NFL, he only meant over the last 5 years lol...I think the "historically unlikely comeback" comment in your post made me assume that the history you were referring to went back much farther than 2017.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated

[NoCalMike]

I think the major questions going into the offseason at the QB position, is whether the coaches think Howell is franchise QB caliber and/or if he is ready to begin the journey as the starter in 2023.   If their minds are made up that he is ready to start Week 1 next season, I think that gives you more flexibility with how you approach the back up spot.

[NeverSurrender]

Baker seemed a bit humbled after the game.  Good for him.  It was pretty impressive what he did. 

[mistertim]

12 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

Baker also had an INT that was called back. and there were couple of other almost INT throws as well. Also the pass where it was a tad bit short and the WR had to jump up and over the defender and come down with it and then had to wrestled the ball away from the DB as the DB also had his hands on it too? So, when Taylor threw a similar pass (Terry wrestled away) he sucks but if Baker does it it is WOW cosmic-level 🙄

 

Baker was drafted in the 1st round. Taylor wasn't.

 

Btw, Taylor with that 4th and something was way more cosmic.

 

 

 

Most people: "Heinicke threw a bunch of balls that should have been intercepted but weren't"

Hive: "Almost interceptions don't count!"

 

Most people: "Baker Mayfield looked pretty impressive coming in cold to a new system"

Hive: "Mayfield threw a bunch of balls that should have been intercepted but weren't"

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

 

The "2 days on the team" argument is rather weak...switching from one team to another is not some Grand Canyon-sized chasm that's next to impossible for a QB to overcome, especially one who has been a starter for 64 of the last 76 games.

The entire football media ecosystem disagrees, and for good reason imo. But that’s an entire conversation of it’s own and not worth arguing more about because neither of us actually care about Mayfield, or I suspect Heinicke (that much) lol.

 

Also the reason you’re finding more comebacks like that is because you’re ignoring the rest of Schefter’s stat—teams are 4-551 in that situation in the last five years (including playoffs). The Brunell and Manning games, and others I’m sure, happened before that window. Still an impressive split. 

[Koolblue13]

Leave it to Baker Mayfield, during the Tie Bye week, to send the Heini Hole thread into chaos! There's moxie flying everywhere! 

1 hour ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

 

The "2 days on the team" argument is rather weak...switching from one team to another is not some Grand Canyon-sized chasm that's next to impossible for a QB to overcome, especially one who has been a starter for 64 of the last 76 games.

Knowing the playbook doesn't matter and Taylors value being that he knows the playbook seems to be opposing points of view. 

 

Which way to the moxie?

29 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

Baker seemed a bit humbled after the game.  Good for him.  It was pretty impressive what he did. 

That respectable post is about a 7 on the moxie scale. Respect.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

 

Most people: "Heinicke threw a bunch of balls that should have been intercepted but weren't"

Hive: "Almost interceptions don't count!"

 

Most people: "Baker Mayfield looked pretty impressive coming in cold to a new system"

Hive: "Mayfield threw a bunch of balls that should have been intercepted but weren't"

 

 

Or...

 

Heinicke Haters: "Heinicke threw a bunch of balls that should have been intercepted but weren't"

Hive: "A lot of QBs do as well."

 

Heinicke Haters: "Baker Mayfield looked pretty impressive coming in cold into a new system. Take notes, Hive members...this is what a real QB with moxie looks like."

Hive: "So a QB can throw a bunch of balls that should have been intercepted but weren't, and still look impressive? Interesting."

[Koolblue13]

Just now, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

 

Or...

 

Heinicke Haters: "Heinicke threw a bunch of balls that should have been intercepted but weren't"

Hive: "A lot of QBs do as well."

 

Heinicke Haters: "Baker Mayfield looked pretty impressive coming in cold into a new system. Take notes, Hive members...this is what a real QB with moxie looks like."

Hive: "So a QB can throw a bunch of balls that should have been intercepted but weren't, and still look impressive? Interesting."

Really spinning the moxie meter today.

 

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Or...

 

Heinicke Haters: "Heinicke threw a bunch of balls that should have been intercepted but weren't"

Hive: "A lot of QBs do as well."

 

Heinicke Haters: "Baker Mayfield looked pretty impressive coming in cold into a new system. Take notes, Hive members...this is what a real QB with moxie looks like."

Hive: "So a QB can throw a bunch of balls that should have been intercepted but weren't, and still look impressive? Interesting."

 

But I'm trying to figure out which way you guys want it. Should we discount almost INTs or no? I'm fine with agreeing that Mayfield threw a few iffy balls that could or should have been intercepted, just like Heinicke. But if you guys agree to that then it means you have to take into account Heinicke's almost INTs as well, which doesn't seem very popular in the hive.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Knowing the playbook doesn't matter and Taylors value being that he knows the playbook seems to be opposing points of view. 

 

 

How much different was the play calling and scheme in last night's game from what Mayfield was using in Carolina (or even in Cleveland)? Anyone know?...Did McVay tailor the offense to help Mayfield adjust quicker? He's the offensive genius, after all....would seem to make sense that he did, even if he just pared it down to the basic passing concepts that almost all offenses have in their playbook. We always say Turner pares down the playbook for Heinicke, would make sense if McVay did something similar for a QB on a short week. Also, Mayfield was sucking eggs for 3 straight quarters, and the offense only scored 3 points. Was the "2 Days/New Playbook" excus--er, explanations why? Can a seasoned veteran QB find himself getting his footing and bearings in a new offense by just playing, or does he need months of practice first? Or did the play calling change in the 4th quarter with them being down by 13? Did the Raiders start to let up and let the clock be the enemy of the Rams' comeback attempt? Wouldn't be the first team to do so. 

[Captain James]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

I think the major questions going into the offseason at the QB position, is whether the coaches think Howell is franchise QB caliber and/or if he is ready to begin the journey as the starter in 2023.   If their minds are made up that he is ready to start Week 1 next season, I think that gives you more flexibility with how you approach the back up spot.

Man I hope their minds are made up and he's the clear starter. Not because I followed him through college or anything (I didn't), but because how amazing it is to push through an entire offseason with that position clearly defined. Fingers crossed

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

How much different was the play calling and scheme in last night's game from what Mayfield was using in Carolina (or even in Cleveland)? Anyone know?...Did McVay tailor the offense to help Mayfield adjust quicker? He's the offensive genius, after all....would seem to make sense that he did, even if he just pared it down to the basic passing concepts that almost all offenses have in their playbook. We always say Turner pares down the playbook for Heinicke, would make sense if McVay did something similar for a QB on a short week. Also, Mayfield was sucking eggs for 3 straight quarters, and the offense only scored 3 points. Was the "2 Days/New Playbook" excus--er, explanations why? Can a seasoned veteran QB find himself getting his footing and bearings in a new offense by just playing, or does he need months of practice first? Or did the play calling change in the 4th quarter with them being down by 13? Did the Raiders start to let up and let the clock be the enemy of the Rams' comeback attempt? Wouldn't be the first team to do so. 

I don't know and I didn't watch the game. I'm also not reading your post, because I figure it's probably as dumb as every other post made since Conns moxie joke that has you all fired up.

 

This thread is a dumpster fire right now and only deserves to be pointed at and laughed about. 

 

You're arguing about moxie. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

13 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

But I'm trying to figure out which way you guys want it. Should we discount almost INTs or no? I'm fine with agreeing that Mayfield threw a few iffy balls that could or should have been intercepted, just like Heinicke. But if you guys agree to that then it means you have to take into account Heinicke's almost INTs as well, which doesn't seem very popular in the hive.

 

I just told you the way it actually is.

 

When the Heinicke Haters make "He throws INT-worthy passes, he's just lucky" their mantra, it's gonna get pointed out when a QB they find "impressive" does the same. It's not to make the claim that Mayfield was not impressive in the comeback attempt (although in this case I think it was to use the Heinicke Haters' logic back at them and the "just for fun" claim that Mayfield was a true example of moxie as opposed to Heinicke).

 

 

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I don't know and I didn't watch the game. I'm also not reading your post, because I figure it's probably as dumb as every other post made since Conns moxie joke that has you all fired up.

 

This thread is a dumpster fire right now and only deserves to be pointed at and laughed about. 

 

You're arguing about moxie. 

 

So you answered a question in a post you didn't read...and kept responding to a post you didn't read. Sounds like you.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Are we confusing tipping the cap to Baker for putting an exclamation point on what was a wild week for him with folks saying Baker is infallible or made no mistakes last night? 
 

I started the freaking Raiders horrendous defense in fantasy for the sole purpose of playing the Rams who would be with Joe Shmoe or a guy with 2 days under his belt in Mayfield.  Practically the entirety of the football fan world expected the Rams to get waxed last night.  The dreadful Raiders were a touchdown favorite on the road, only because of the Rams QB situation among other key injuries.

 

It was totally unexpected and a cool moment for Baker.  Most people probably didn’t even see the almost interceptions because they only caught the highlights - this wasn’t must see TV.  This is probably the only place on the internet with this current discussion taking place.  🤣

Edited December 9, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Hooper]

I watched the game last night. 

 

Kudos to Baker.

 

Also to the refs were ignoring hilariously blatant holding penalties on the final drive. Crosby was held on every play and it was brutally obvious.

 

Finally, a special kudos to the Raiders "genius" DC Patrick Graham, who went press coverage against Van Jefferson on the td play. Insanity. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Are we confusing tipping the cap to Baker for putting an exclamation point on what was a wild week for him with folks saying Baker is infallible or made no mistakes last night?

 

No.

 

We are making passive/agressive "joking" comments comparing Mayfield to Heinicke and then clutching our pearls when a "hive" member comments on it.

[Koolblue13]

8 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

No.

 

We are making passive/agressive "joking" comments comparing Mayfield to Heinicke and then clutching our pearls when a "hive" member comments on it.

Adorable. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

36 minutes ago, Conn said:

The entire football media ecosystem disagrees, and for good reason imo. But that’s an entire conversation of it’s own and not worth arguing more about because neither of us actually care about Mayfield, or I suspect Heinicke (that much) lol.

 

Also the reason you’re finding more comebacks like that is because you’re ignoring the rest of Schefter’s stat—teams are 4-551 in that situation in the last five years (including playoffs). The Brunell and Manning games, and others I’m sure, happened before that window. Still an impressive split. 

 

I made an edit that I missed the "last 5 years" time frame that Schefter mentioned...I don't usually use the word "historically" for just the last 5 years, so when you did I read it as the history of the NFL, not just since Kirk Cousins left the team lol...I also had no idea that so many games ended with 2 or more possession wins. That seemed like a lot of 13+ point wins for just 5 years.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Adorable. 

 

You misspelled "accurate" lol...

Edited December 9, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated