The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[JSSkinz]

I know Ron thinks a good running game will solve our issues and the logic makes sense but we had 27 carries last week and averaged 5.3 yards a carry and still got pummeled.

[wit33]

19 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I know Ron thinks a good running game will solve our issues and the logic makes sense but we had 27 carries last week and averaged 5.3 yards a carry and still got pummeled.

There’s no doubt running the football can separate you from the bottom third in the league and challenge for a playoff spot. This idea running the football has little value is way overplayed. Getting beyond that .500 to just above level is the most difficult part and largely dependent on whether your team has elite QB or dual threat QB on a rookie deal. 

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

2 hours ago, The Rook said:

 

I look at that list of QB's and I see 2 #1's, 2#2's and 1#3 picks.  And none are with their original teams.

Crazy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

Goff's name shouldn't even be on there. He's playing very well and their offense is flourishing. Their main problem is their terrible defense.

[FLSkinz83]

Saw the stat Today that Wentz was under center 20 times and we ran 18 times.    When he was in shotgun, we threw 41 out of 50.

 

You think teams have a good idea what we're doing?

 

Fire Turner!  

[NoCalMike]

The idea that the running game helps the passing game is true, however the opponent will also make adjustments if they feel the offense is going run-heavy for a significant amount of time.  Now there are some teams where it doesn't matter how hard a defense tries to stop the run, they can't, however we saw for example last week Dallas started shifting their defense to reflect the success the Commanders had with rushing the ball.

 

If you want to continue applying a heavy dose of the run the entire game, you better figure out a way to connect on the play-action passes that force a defense to stay honest in their pursuit.  Remember Dak's first couple of seasons?  They likely took seasons off of Zeke's career with how hard they ran him into the ground before they felt Dak was ready to shoulder a bigger piece of the offense. 

[Conn]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

The idea that the running game helps the passing game is true, however the opponent will also make adjustments if they feel the offense is going run-heavy for a significant amount of time.  Now there are some teams where it doesn't matter how hard a defense tries to stop the run, they can't, however we saw for example last week Dallas started shifting their defense to reflect the success the Commanders had with rushing the ball.

 

If you want to continue applying a heavy dose of the run the entire game, you better figure out a way to connect on the play-action passes that force a defense to stay honest in their pursuit.  Remember Dak's first couple of seasons?  They likely took seasons off of Zeke's career with how hard they ran him into the ground before they felt Dak was ready to shoulder a bigger piece of the offense. 

The idea (at least of the segment I posted earlier) isn’t to necessarily be super run heavy. It’s to have your running game and passing game look the same until it’s too late. Our passing and running games have felt out of phase for years and the way we fall into tendencies in different formations gives away the playcall and does the defense a real solid, basically handing them a jump on what you’re doing. So that means more passing from under center (not just play action), better selling of run looks from your OL even when you’re passing, and less obvious shotgun calls. PA of course needs to be a big part of it, but just passing from under center at all slows down the rush. So does being aware of your own tendencies, which every team in the league works on each week—but we still seem to follow the same tendencies when the lights go on. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Conn

[88Comrade2000]

Ron returns in 23 and moves on from Carson, he isn’t going to waste time on a rookie qb.  He will have to make the playoffs in 23, in order to return in 24 and get a contract extension.

 

So, Ron will try to land a veteran qb again and I think he goes after Jimmy G.

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

3 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Ron returns in 23 and moves on from Carson, he isn’t going to waste time on a rookie qb.  He will have to make the playoffs in 23, in order to return in 24 and get a contract extension.

 

So, Ron will try to land a veteran qb again and I think he goes after Jimmy G.

 

With all due respect, Ron neglected the whole defence and O line when it came to additions in the off season and expected us to take steps forward. My concern is that he genuinely means what he says when he mentions that we've got everything we need, he hasn't got a Scooby.

Edited October 6, 2022 by BrentMeisterGeneral

[Est.1974]

7 hours ago, FLSkinz83 said:

Saw the stat Today that Wentz was under center 20 times and we ran 18 times.    When he was in shotgun, we threw 41 out of 50.

 

You think teams have a good idea what we're doing?

 

Fire Turner!  

Yep those kind of stats prove you are screwed from the get go. Teams will be all over those kind of trends. How obvious.

[RandyHolt]

17 hours ago, wit33 said:

Bates is a real factor in the run game. As a fan who mostly watches the ball he managed to pop off the screen in regards to run blocking. I know a few on here have pointed this out for a while.
 

I believe Washington is headed towards a smash mouth brand of football and Bates will be a factor. Curious to see where his snap count ends up being over next few weeks. He was up to 30 last week. 

Pull a Bellichek and move him inside if we have any OL injuries sunday.

 

For one play in my life I would like to see a Cheeseman at C and Carson at punter depth in an obvious passing down on days the OL cannot and will not pass block. That fantasy aside its foolish to line him up under center and pass the ball with this OL. Dude cannot complete his drop - yet MY idea is the fantasy.

Edited October 6, 2022 by RandyHolt

[Skinsinparadise]

Caught up with Cooley and Paulsen.    

 

1.  Wentz is genuinely struggiling.  It's not all about the O line.  Bad and sometimes odd decision making.  Bad accuracy.   Happy feet.  His mobility isn't what it once was and that gets exposed during the game where he thinks he can escape but he can't.

 

2.  O line struggiling. They aren't playing smart they do an awful job selling play action

 

3.  While the receivers are good they struggle against press coverage especially Dotson.

 

4.  Scott Turner struggiling.  Odd fits off of play action.  When you run play action do it from the same formations-same looks that you've run the ball off of.  That among other things he has hit him for in the last 2 weeks.

 

5.  The good news is he thinks their identity could be build off of what @Voice_of_Reason has been railing against all off season as to what he doesn't want 😀 and that is be a run dominated team.  He thinks they execute outside zone really well -- the O line and both Bates and A. Rogers block it well

Edited October 6, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[CobraCommander]

6 hours ago, BrentMeisterGeneral said:

 

With all due respect, Ron neglected the whole defence and O line when it came to additions in the off season and expected us to take steps forward. My concern is that he genuinely means what he says when he mentions that we've got everything we need, he hasn't got a Scooby.

He didn't exactly neglect the o-line, he just brought in aging vets that can't get the job done. Specifically ones he knew from his time with the Panthers. He built a team based off the team in Carolina that got him fired. 🤢

[Warhead36]

49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Caught up with Cooley and Paulsen.    

 

1.  Wentz is genuinely struggiling.  It's not all about the O line.  Bad and sometimes odd decision making.  Bad accuracy.   Happy feet.  His mobility isn't what it once was and that gets exposed during the game where he thinks he can escape but he can't.

 

2.  O line struggiling. They aren't playing smart they do an awful job selling play action

 

3.  While the receivers are good they struggle against press coverage especially Dotson.

 

4.  Scott Turner struggiling.  Odd fits off of play action.  When you run play action do it from the same formations-same looks that you've run the ball off of.  That among other things he has hit him for in the last 2 weeks.

 

5.  The good news is he thinks their identity could be build off of what @Voice_of_Reason has been railing against all off season as to what he doesn't want 😀 and that is be a run dominated team.  He thinks they execute outside zone really well -- the O line and both Bates and A. Rogers block it well

My only thing reg. point 3 is that might be a scheme issue as well in terms of play design. We don't run the routes that beat press like crossing routes, slants etc. 

[UK Skins]

51 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

4.  Scott Turner struggiling.  Odd fits off of play action.  When you run play action do it from the same formations-same looks that you've run the ball off of.  That among other things he has hit him for in the last 2 weeks.

 

 

Anyone that's ever played Madden knows this!! A so-called professional coach doesn't??

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, UK Skins said:

 

Anyone that's ever played Madden knows this!! A so-called professional coach doesn't??

 

Yeah to expand, the O line supposedly isn't borthering to sell it, they tip off pass sets versus run sets.  Then Cooley went on to explain how Dallas does play action right.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[UK Skins]

Thanks SIP. That, plus that stat about always running from center and passing from shotgun is mind-blowing. Just total ineptitude

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

54 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

He didn't exactly neglect the o-line, he just brought in aging vets that can't get the job done. Specifically ones he knew from his time with the Panthers. He built a team based off the team in Carolina that got him fired. 🤢

 

Not sure Scherff leaving was on Ron, but letting Ereck Flowers go was one of the most idiotic moves by any HC in Washington for some time, and there have been a catalogue of errors as we know

[ThomasRoane]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Caught up with Cooley and Paulsen.    

 

1.  Wentz is genuinely struggiling.  It's not all about the O line.  Bad and sometimes odd decision making.  Bad accuracy.   Happy feet.  His mobility isn't what it once was and that gets exposed during the game where he thinks he can escape but he can't.

 

2.  O line struggiling. They aren't playing smart they do an awful job selling play action

 

3.  While the receivers are good they struggle against press coverage especially Dotson.

 

4.  Scott Turner struggiling.  Odd fits off of play action.  When you run play action do it from the same formations-same looks that you've run the ball off of.  That among other things he has hit him for in the last 2 weeks.

 

5.  The good news is he thinks their identity could be build off of what @Voice_of_Reason has been railing against all off season as to what he doesn't want 😀 and that is be a run dominated team.  He thinks they execute outside zone really well -- the O line and both Bates and A. Rogers block it well

 

Good write up.  Cooley and Paulson are usually spot on.

 

I know Ron has to ride it out with Wentz until he gets hurt.  Deep down, he probably has a serious case of buyer's remorse,  If Wentz doesn't get hurt and continues to underperform and under deliver then it could mean the team moves on to yet another savior coach.  RR isn't the best coach but the Commanders can do a lot worse.  And has!  The stench of Dan Snyder just won't leave this team.  New names or uniforms can't make the franchise smell better.

 

I'm really frustrated because RR should have just stuck with his plan.  Build a great team and THEN add the QB.  He panicked though for whatever reason.  Obviously, he didn't truly believe in Wentz.  We know that because he's still on a one year deal!  And, RR admitted that Wentz needs a lot of help to succeed.  That's fine for a Taylor Heinicke who costs you $2 million or Sam Howell on a rookie (5th rounder) deal.  For $25M you should have a QB that can overcome poor line play.  You shouldn't have to "prop up" a $25M quarterback.  

 

Best case scenario now is that Wentz doesn't finish the season.  TH plays a coupled of games until Turner feels Howell is ready.  Then finish up with Howell.  Add some Oline, sign Payne, cut WJ3 and get yourself a good cover corner and an athletic free safety.  I think the rest of the team is good enough to really compete next season.  

[Warhead36]

10 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Best case scenario now is that Wentz doesn't finish the season.  TH plays a coupled of games until Turner feels Howell is ready.  Then finish up with Howell.  Add some Oline, sign Payne, cut WJ3 and get yourself a good cover corner and an athletic free safety.  I think the rest of the team is good enough to really compete next season.  

That's a lot of holes to fill. Impossible to fill all in one off season unless you just have one of those all time great drafts and hit on all your big FAs.

[skinny21]

6 hours ago, BrentMeisterGeneral said:

 

With all due respect, Ron neglected the whole defence and O line when it came to additions in the off season and expected us to take steps forward. My concern is that he genuinely means what he says when he mentions that we've got everything we need, he hasn't got a Scooby.

I think they believed they had a combo of things that would work for them - developing youth, some additions, some decent/proven depth pieces, and continuity.  So, I might argue that they tried, but they misjudged and have gotten some bad luck.

 

On defense, Daniel Wise played a fair bit last year, and I think they thought he and Mathis would be solid contributors to the dline.  St Juste, Davis and Forrest guys that should take a step forward in the back 7.   Probably thought Fuller, McCain and WJIII would perform better with last year under their belt (continuity).  Then they added Butler and Holmes.  (Had Danny Johnson returning as well, though he wound up being cut)

 

On the line, they had Cosmi and Saahdiq developing, solid guys in Leno, Roullier, Sweitzer and Lucas, Larsen to return at some point, they brought in Norwell/Turner to compete for the guard spots/depth, and added Paul.

 

 

[skinny21]

Man, I try not to glom on to the criticisms du jour too often, but that info about PA passing, under center vs shotgun… IMO that has got to change, like yesterday.

And do OCs not consult defenses - coaches and players - when scheming up offenses?  Seems a complete no-brainer to me.  I’d be getting together with former players, and current players at each level of the D - “What kind of plays are hardest to read?  Which plays are hardest to defend?  Which are the easiest?” and situational stuff too.

Edited October 6, 2022 by skinny21

[Riggodrill44]

54 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Good write up.  Cooley and Paulson are usually spot on.

 

 

 

I'm really frustrated because RR should have just stuck with his plan.  Build a great team and THEN add the QB.  He panicked though for whatever reason.  Obviously, he didn't truly believe in Wentz.  We know that because he's still on a one year deal!  And, RR admitted that Wentz needs a lot of help to succeed.  That's fine for a Taylor Heinicke who costs you $2 million or Sam Howell on a rookie (5th rounder) deal.  For $25M you should have a QB that can overcome poor line play.  You shouldn't have to "prop up" a $25M quarterback.  

 

 

You guess you’re not watching football. I’ve watched every QB in football struggle when facing superior pressure. 
 

How about we fix the last be and see if Wentz can run this offense.

In 91 Rypien got sacked 7 times, Gibbs prioritized protection. We need to do the same.

[Warhead36]

10 minutes ago, Riggodrill44 said:

You guess you’re not watching football. I’ve watched every QB in football struggle when facing superior pressure. 
 

How about we fix the last be and see if Wentz can run this offense.

In 91 Rypien got sacked 7 times, Gibbs prioritized protection. We need to do the same.

Yes. We need to go out and get the best OL in NFL history. If we accomplish that I'm sure we'll be fine. /s

[El Mexican]

18 minutes ago, Riggodrill44 said:

You guess you’re not watching football. I’ve watched every QB in football struggle when facing superior pressure. 
 

How about we fix the last be and see if Wentz can run this offense.

In 91 Rypien got sacked 7 times, Gibbs prioritized protection. We need to do the same.

 

Nah. That's not the Snyder way. Not flashy enough.

I've got 20 years of evidence to back this claim.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by El Mexican

[HigSkin]