The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mistertim]

I watched a fair amount of that game. Daniel Jones massively benefited from the fact that the Titans were completely unable to stop Barkley. He rushed for 164 yards with a 9.1 average. That's insane. All DJ had to do was not make too many stupid mistakes and make a few relatively easy tosses off of play action.

 

I agree with @Skinsinparadise: I really hope they retain Jones. He's utterly mediocre and will be more likely to hold them back than propel them forward. 

[HigSkin]

Re-listened to RGIII who I thought did a pretty good job on The Junkies this morning.  He made these points about Wentz -

 

1)  He's a "space" QB meaning he has a wide base, long and lanky so needs a pretty good space around his legs/feet

2)  If he has to shorten that base (up middle pass rush and trash around his feet) he's going to sail balls

2)  He's a special player, very smart

3)  Thinks Wentz on that screen play probably heard coaches tell him all week not to think too much about that play, receiver will be open

4)  Thinks he can zone out at times, he called it "gets bored" because he's so smart but I kind of disagree with the "gets bored" and that gets him in trouble

5)  Thinks this team can be special with all the skill positions and go along way if Wentz can avoid some of those mistakes

6)  Thinks Wentz needs to target Terry more (I'm sure that will happen per RR on today's interview about rotating targets)

 

 

[Ball Security]

Looking at the video cut up there were a handful of throws that Wentz probably would like back.  But he had 41 attempts.  He missed Dotson and Thomas bad early in the game.  He threw a ball way too low to Samuel on a 2nd and 2.  He missed Milne badly in the second half.  Also note that our tackles held up.  Cosmi gave up the one sack, but Leno had no pressures.  That’s outstanding.  Charles got walked back into him on one throw.  Had a ton of splash plays.  Five plays of 20+ yards to five different guys.  Did we have that many in any game last year?

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I’d really like to see Wilson **** the bed tonight.

[Thinking Skins]

13 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Looking at the video cut up there were a handful of throws that Wentz probably would like back.  But he had 41 attempts.  He missed Dotson and Thomas bad early in the game.  He threw a ball way too low to Samuel on a 2nd and 2.  He missed Milne badly in the second half.  Also note that our tackles held up.  Cosmi gave up the one sack, but Leno had no pressures.  That’s outstanding.  Charles got walked back into him on one throw.  Had a ton of splash plays.  Five plays of 20+ yards to five different guys.  Did we have that many in any game last year?

Yeah, I excuse those misses because he made up for them in other plays. It's early in the season in a new offense and he is still learning. But oh the possibilities 

[zCommander]

2 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I’d really like to see Wilson **** the bed tonight.

 

This is not the game day thread. You might want to post in here instead.

 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

10 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

This is not the game day thread. You might want to post in here instead.

Well I was kind’ve going with “I want Wilson to **** the bed because I want our trade for Carson to look like a steel compared to what the Broncos and browns get for what they gave up.” but I see your point.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Ball Security said:

Looking at the video cut up there were a handful of throws that Wentz probably would like back.  But he had 41 attempts.  He missed Dotson and Thomas bad early in the game.  He threw a ball way too low to Samuel on a 2nd and 2.  He missed Milne badly in the second half.  Also note that our tackles held up.  Cosmi gave up the one sack, but Leno had no pressures.  That’s outstanding.  Charles got walked back into him on one throw.  Had a ton of splash plays.  Five plays of 20+ yards to five different guys.  Did we have that many in any game last year?

 

OL was fairly good in pass pro, we did use A LOT of play action that helps. But Wentz had the 2nd longest time to throw in Week 1.

[Warhead36]

6 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

OL was fairly good in pass pro, we did use A LOT of play action that helps. But Wentz had the 2nd longest time to throw in Week 1.

OL was mostly really good but definitely had a bit of a drop off when Schweitzer and I believe Norwell both exited the game midway through. Coincides with our mid game lull.

[Koolblue13]

[DJHJR86]

I think QBR is a decent measure of how well a quarterback played in a game as compared to a passer rating.  And I was always a little worried after seeing several Colts fans rejoicing of the trading of Wentz and how they mocked that most recent "Commanders have found their guy" WaPo article.  Essentially it was a common refrain: looks like a superstar and then will make a braindead boneheaded decision.  We got that full experience on Sunday.  I went and looked up his QBR weekly rankings for 2021 to see if the Colts fans were right and here are the rankings:

 

Week 1: 27th

Week 2: 12th

Week 3: 22nd

Week 4: 2nd

Week 5: 15th

Week 6: 10th

Week 7: 4th

Week 8: 20th

Week 9: 4th

Week 10: 24th

Week 11: 9th

Week 12: 7th

Week 13: 3rd

Week 15: 19th

Week 16: 9th

Week 17: 24th

Week 18: 33rd

 

Roughly an average ranking of 14th best in QBR.  His ranking for Sunday was 20th.  It does look like he goes through streaks.  However, it continues to baffle me how people can look at QBR (which isn't perfect) and rank him in the bottom third of the league of starters.  IMO, his ceiling is a top ten quarterback.  His floor is in the 14-18 range.  It's going to be hilarious if the Colts don't have a winning record this year because Irsay wanted Wentz gone because he's a hot head and traded for an inferior and older quarterback.  

[Ball Security]

13 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

I think QBR is a decent measure of how well a quarterback played in a game as compared to a passer rating.  And I was always a little worried after seeing several Colts fans rejoicing of the trading of Wentz and how they mocked that most recent "Commanders have found their guy" WaPo article.  Essentially it was a common refrain: looks like a superstar and then will make a braindead boneheaded decision.  We got that full experience on Sunday.  I went and looked up his QBR weekly rankings for 2021 to see if the Colts fans were right and here are the rankings:

 

Week 1: 27th

Week 2: 12th

Week 3: 22nd

Week 4: 2nd

Week 5: 15th

Week 6: 10th

Week 7: 4th

Week 8: 20th

Week 9: 4th

Week 10: 24th

Week 11: 9th

Week 12: 7th

Week 13: 3rd

Week 15: 19th

Week 16: 9th

Week 17: 24th

Week 18: 33rd

 

Roughly an average ranking of 14th best in QBR.  His ranking for Sunday was 20th.  It does look like he goes through streaks.  However, it continues to baffle me how people can look at QBR (which isn't perfect) and rank him in the bottom third of the league of starters.  IMO, his ceiling is a top ten quarterback.  His floor is in the 14-18 range.  It's going to be hilarious if the Colts don't have a winning record this year because Irsay wanted Wentz gone because he's a hot head and traded for an inferior and older quarterback.  

If one wanted to better understand how QBR is measured, let’s start with plays.  Wentz had 52 plays.  He had 41 passing attempts and six rushes (including 3 kneel downs).  What are the other five plays?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

[Koolblue13]

twitter.com/WentzToMcLaurin/status/1569129194843475968

 

[goskins10]

18 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

 

 

Serious hate for Carson from Jags fans even. Did this guy steal everyone's lunch money or something?  

 

 

[goskins10]

Cmon that throw to terry - We have not a had a QB since Kirk who could even think about that throw. It got there in a hurry and right on target. There was a pass on the last drive to convert a 3rd down where he split tow defenders - the announcer made some fun of it saying - don't throw into double coverage, don't throw into double coverage, don't throw into double coverage, OK throw into double coverage!  LOL  It was a dart. 

 

Love the 11-13 for 2TDs after the 2nd int. It's really too bad he folds all the time. Has no confidence. 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by goskins10

[Califan007 The Constipated]

14 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Love the 11-13 for 2TDs after the 2nd int. It's really too bad he folds all the time. Has no confidence. 

 

 

Has he been known to do that before, though?…Have a string of ****-ups back to back and then turn it on right afterwards? In 2020 Wentz threw 2 INTs against us after being up 17-0 in the first half…he didn’t do jack the rest of the game and scored zero points. Yesterday he turned it around in like a minute and a half later lol…I can’t help but think that’s new, but I don’t know for sure.

[Mrshadow008]

A couple of points in regards to Wentz that I've thought about the past couple days. 

1) Accuracy I've seen some (not necessarily here) that have commented on some of Carson's accuracy issues from Sunday. Its hard for me to call someone some inaccurate when completing 65.9% of their passes. I think part of the problem with Wentz and all the accuracy ?s is that the couple throws or so a game that are inaccurate tend to be extremely off target. Because they are so off target when it does happen it tends to stick out in your mind more. 

2) Carson's growth as a Qb. I understand the two ints were god awful. If I have to be honest thats likely something you're just going to get from Carson from time to time. But I think where the real growth from him can happen is not letting those mistakes snowball. I think he's had a tendency to get into his own head and let those affect his play going forward. There's also been the narrative of wilting under pressure. He not only mentally recovered from those mistakes on Sunday he did so while in a pressure situation where he had to come back and be perfect to win the game. In response he delivered two throws very few qbs in the league can make in a comeback win. Now this is obviously one game against the Jags. But to me its promising and if he can continue that we might be in really good shape even if he continues to make some of the boneheaded mistakes.

 

@Califan007 The Constipated I literally made a point about it being new before seeing your comment about it being new lol 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Mrshadow008

[Llevron]

28 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

Has he been known to do that before, though?…Have a string of ****-ups back to back and then turn it on right afterwards? In 2020 Wentz threw 2 INTs against us after being up 17-0 in the first half…he didn’t do jack the rest of the game and scored zero points. Yesterday he turned it around in like a minute and a half later lol…I can’t help but think that’s new, but I don’t know for sure.

 

I think its new too. I mean part of it really may be the guys around him. Think of how easy it must be to look Terry in the eye and say we can still turn this around compared to *checks notes* ......Alson Jeffry lol. And I don't just mean skill. I mean, Terry is a motivated, positive force of nature himself. Then you have Ron, Mickissic who is supposedly loved for his positivity and leadership, then on the defensive end you have guys that can respond too. Its not all on him now to turn **** around. He just has to throw it and he can sure as **** do that. 

 

His offense now by itself has more leaders on it than the team that won the super bowl for the Eagles that season, imo. I don't think its a coincidence that he seems more confidant now than before. And, hes like 5 years older and legit been through some ****. I dunno. Whatever it is I hope it keeps working and I hope we keep seeing it. 

[skinny21]

I liked that Bullock video of Wentz utilizing the backs - Gibson, McKissick and Samuel make for a really nice safety valve coming out of the backfield.  It seemed like he showed the same issue he worked with Warner on though - getting his feet into the right position.  Granted, 1) he was under pressure on some of those throws, 2) he still completed them, and 3) it was a small sample size.

[Chris 44]

57 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

A couple of points in regards to Wentz that I've thought about the past couple days. 

1) Accuracy I've seen some (not necessarily here) that have commented on some of Carson's accuracy issues from Sunday. Its hard for me to call someone some inaccurate when completing 65.9% of their passes. I think part of the problem with Wentz and all the accuracy ?s is that the couple throws or so a game that are inaccurate tend to be extremely off target. Because they are so off target when it does happen it tends to stick out in your mind more. 

 

To me the glaring misses were the ones to wide open receivers, and when I say wide open, no one within 5 yards at least. Goes back to something I talked about during training camp, "aim small, miss small". Its a concentration issue. He looked good when throwing into tight spaces. 

[MisterPinstripe]

Giants win on Titans missed field goal and suddenly they are dangerous in the East with Daniel Jones. Meanwhile Wentz throws 4 TDs and we are expected to not only lose to the Eagles and Giants but the Cowboys without Dak.

[lovemaskins]

Re-watching some of the highlights, I’m most impressed by how he moves around in the pocket. He was constantly stepping up and away from pressure to make some easy throws. Especially the 3rd and 10 to Logan late. He stepped up and left and put it right on Logan for a first down which kept the winning drive going.  
 

I know it’s early, but we have the potential to be an explosive offense.  And I really think Ron is the perfect coach to to help Wentz rebuild his confidence.  Wentz is absolutely wanted in DC and I think he feels it. We shall see.

[Chris 44]

1 minute ago, lovemaskins said:

Re-watching some of the highlights, I’m most impressed by how he moves around in the pocket. He was constantly stepping up and away from pressure to make some easy throws. Especially the 3rd and 10 to Logan late. He stepped up and left and put it right on Logan for a first down which kept the winning drive going.  
 

I know it’s early, but we have the potential to be an explosive offense.  And I really think Ron is the perfect coach to to help Wentz rebuild his confidence.  Wentz is absolutely wanted in DC and I think he feels it. We shall see.

That's exactly what I was thinking watching the "underneath throws" throws above. Did a nice job of avoiding the rush and escaping on one in particular.