The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[88Comrade2000]

You start TH for another season; we go 4-13 and have a top 5 pick in 23.

[Hitman#21]

2 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

You start TH for another season; we go 4-13 and have a top 5 pick in 23.

You can’t start him , Ron gets canned if he does and I’m a Ron guy 

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

You start TH for another season; we go 4-13 and have a top 5 pick in 23.

Suffering through another year sounds like fun. And with our luck we’re still picking 5th or 6th.

 

Or we’re lined up for the first pick and we beat the Giants and Eagles the last two weeks in meaningless victories… our fans get so excited for the wins because they only want wins and can’t understand cheering for losses…

 

but then they want to tank entire seasons without a QB and that’s totally cool.

[peanut0862]

I seen on GMF this morning Cris Carter say the reason SF drafted Lance is because Jimmy G can't throw a 20yd out. If this is the case we have no use for Jimmy either

 

[Hitman#21]

15 minutes ago, peanut0862 said:

I seen on GMF this morning Cris Carter say the reason SF drafted Lance is because Jimmy G can't throw a 20yd out. If this is the case we have no use for Jimmy either

 

Yet they’re in the NFC champ game and he’s 1 win away from his second SB 🤷‍♂️ 

[mistertim]

18 minutes ago, Hitman#21 said:

Yet they’re in the NFC champ game and he’s 1 win away from his second SB 🤷‍♂️ 

 

And he had almost nothing to do with their run. Just like their last SB run. 5 postseason games. 2 TDs 5 INTs. His team wins despite him not because of him.

[mh86]

48 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

And he had almost nothing to do with their run. Just like their last SB run. 5 postseason games. 2 TDs 5 INTs. His team wins despite him not because of him.

But…but… Super Bowls!

[Hitman#21]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

And he had almost nothing to do with their run. Just like their last SB run. 5 postseason games. 2 TDs 5 INTs. His team wins despite him not because of him.

We forgetting how he led them back down 17-0 against the rams? In a must win week 18 game 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Hitman#21

[cakmoney61]

7 hours ago, Hitman#21 said:

We forgetting how he led them back down 17-0 against the rams? In a must win week 18 game 

I have forgotten it so completely that I have no idea what you are even talking about.😉  Unless Jimmy G comes very cheap, I do not want to see him in Washington.

Edited January 28, 2022 by cakmoney61

[Skinsinparadise]

I've been one of the loudest critics of Danisl Jones starting before even before that draft.

 

I really wish the league would see Heincke > Jones.  But I think hardly anyone would.  

 

The reason why I bemoan that is Jones could likely fetch something in the trade market whereas Heinicke not really.

 

Jones isn't hot.  But he has regular QB size.  Regular QB arm.  And he is willing to use his wheels and run. Better accuracy.  They both are problems as for turnovers with Jones being slightly worse.   Also for context, Jones had horrible O line protection.  Heinicke had some of the best protection in the league. 

 

If the Giants decuded to make a trade, I think they can get some team to bite and think maybe we can do it with Jones.  I think they are wrong if so but I do think they got a fighting chance.  Heinicke IMO on the other hand is a slam dunk no.  I don't think for example if we tried to trade for Wilson, seattle would gleefully say we will take Henicke in the package but I could see them take Daniel Jones in the mix of a package.

 

I wish I believed that the league saw Henicke the way a handful of people here do.  I genuinely would love it because he would be a valuable chess piece in a trade.  But Heinicke to me is likely worthless in a trade.  Daniel Jones isn't worth much but he's at least worth flier status IMO. 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-offensive-line-rankings

30. NEW YORK GIANTS (DOWN 2)

LT Andrew Thomas | 78.4
LG Matt Skura | 50.8
C Billy Price | 62.3
RG Will Hernandez | 55.9
RT Nate Solder | 60.2

Things weren’t just bad on the offensive line for the Giants (left tackle Andrew Thomas had more receiving touchdowns than Kenny Golladay and Kadarius Toney — their big-money free agent and first-round rookie — combined), but it certainly started there.

Thomas was the best-graded player on the line, and when he missed time, things were near disastrous. He allowed 19 pressures across 517 pass-blocking snaps. His development in Year 2 was a massive positive, but he might be the only member of the line who has a clear future going forward.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[philibusters]

4 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

I have forgotten it so completely that I have no idea what you are even talking about.  Unless Jimmy G comes very cheap, I do not want to see him in Washington.

 

Three weeks ago (WFT was out so a lot of us were not following as closely).  In the final week of this regular season, San Fran basically had a win you are probably in and a lose you are out situation.   The 49'ers were playing the Rams and fell behind 17-0 but came back to win.  I don't really follow the league that closely beyond WFT, but even I can remember this one because it was so recent.

[cakmoney61]

2 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

Three weeks ago (WFT was out so a lot of us were not following as closely).  In the final week of this regular season, San Fran basically had a win you are probably in and a lose you are out situation.   The 49'ers were playing the Rams and fell behind 17-0 but came back to win.  I don't really follow the league that closely beyond WFT, but even I can remember this one because it was so recent.

I was being sarcastic.  The bottom line is I really don't want a JAG QB at the expense of a first-round pick and a huge long-term contract.

[method man]

25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I've been one of the loudest critics of Danisl Jones starting before even before that draft.

 

I really wish the league would see Heincke > Jones.  But I think hardly anyone would.  

 

The reason why I bemoan that is Jones could likely fetch something in the trade market whereas Heinicke not really.

 

Jones isn't hot.  But he has regular QB size.  Regular QB arm.  And he is willing to use his wheels and run. Better accuracy.  They both are problems as for turnovers with Jones being slightly worse.   Also for context, Jones had horrible O line protection.  Heinicke had some of the best protection in the league. 

 

If the Giants decuded to make a trade, I think they can get some team to bite and think maybe we can do it with Jones.  I think they are wrong if so but I do think they got a fighting chance.  Heinicke IMO on the other hand is a slam dunk no.  I don't think for example if we tried to trade for Wilson, seattle would gleefully say we will take Henicke in the package but I could see them take Daniel Jones in the mix of a package.

 

I wish I believed that the league saw Henicke the way a handful of people here do.  I genuinely would love it because he would be a valuable chess piece in a trade.  But Heinicke to me is likely worthless in a trade.  Daniel Jones isn't worth much but he's at least worth flier status IMO. 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-offensive-line-rankings

30. NEW YORK GIANTS (DOWN 2)

LT Andrew Thomas | 78.4
LG Matt Skura | 50.8
C Billy Price | 62.3
RG Will Hernandez | 55.9
RT Nate Solder | 60.2

Things weren’t just bad on the offensive line for the Giants (left tackle Andrew Thomas had more receiving touchdowns than Kenny Golladay and Kadarius Toney — their big-money free agent and first-round rookie — combined), but it certainly started there.

Thomas was the best-graded player on the line, and when he missed time, things were near disastrous. He allowed 19 pressures across 517 pass-blocking snaps. His development in Year 2 was a massive positive, but he might be the only member of the line who has a clear future going forward.

I might be wrong in this but I feel DJ was playing well this season until he got concussed vs the Cowboys. He had had a long stretch of games with minimal turnovers until that happened

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, method man said:

I might be wrong in this but I feel DJ was playing well this season until he got concussed vs the Cowboys. He had had a long stretch of games with minimal turnovers until that happened

 

He did chill down his turnovers this past season.  that's true.

 

[KDawg]

33 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

I was being sarcastic.  The bottom line is I really don't want a JAG QB at the expense of a first-round pick and a huge long-term contract.

No one that I have seen is advocating on trading a first for him. So where does this come from?

[Anselmheifer]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/01/27/witness-in-deshaun-watson-cases-repeatedly-invokes-the-fifth-amendment/
 

The optics of this aren’t good for Watson. Not sure it changes much otherwise though.

[DJHJR86]

16 hours ago, Hitman#21 said:

You’ve never watched Carr clearly 

 

I've watched him.  He's done nothing in his career to justify any hype about landing him in free agency or a trade.  He's mediocre.  

[goskins10]

11 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

How can you seriously say that Daniel Jones would be a far better backup than TH when TH is actually a better starter than Daniel Jones? Jones has been awful as a NYG starter and who knows how he'd handle being a backup? I just don't see any logic in this statement at all...no offense. Can you expand on this....if not, no worries. 

 

 

Fair enough, I probably should not had said "far" better, that's a bit extreme. I was typing quickly 🙂 . But I do believe he would be a definite upgrade over Taylor. Daniel Jones can make every throw needed and that is the primary reason. But also, he has 3 yrs starting experience so has seen more defenses. He has had 45 TDs to 29 int vs Taylor who has 22 TDs and 18 int. He has many 300+ yds games including a 400 yd game (maybe more, I did not look at all seasons). In 17 starts Taylor crossed 300 1 times, that was against NY in gm 2. He failed to reach 200 yds 5 times in 17 gms (did not count gm 1 since he came in part way through the game.) 

 

I am in no way advocating getting Daniel Jones. I would not give up anything for him. Stay with Taylor as he is cheaper and knows the system. Also, Jones has accuracy issues just like Taylor and also likes to fumble. But if it was a no cost thing where it's just skill level vs. skill level, I am taking Daniel Jones as the back-up. His arm strength, while not super strong, is still much better than Taylor's and keeps more of the playbook open.

[mistertim]

9 hours ago, Hitman#21 said:

We forgetting how he led them back down 17-0 against the rams? In a must win week 18 game 

 

So the case is now "Let's forget his abysmal numbers from all the post season appearances that some people want to give him credit for and use to claim he's worth a high round pick, because he led them back to a win in this one game"?

 

I'd be fine with a 3rd and a reasonable contract for Jimmy G. But I wouldn't want to give up more and I especially wouldn't want to give him a big contract that basically means we're married to him for the next 3-4 years. He's not the guy.

Edited January 28, 2022 by mistertim

[carex]

Ron is getting a Gibbs or Shanahan like period as head coach. He may get as long as Gruden

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

I've watched him.  He's done nothing in his career to justify any hype about landing him in free agency or a trade.  He's mediocre.  

I personally hope whoever gets hired in LV has the same opinion as that and decides to move on from him.

[Voice_of_Reason]

12 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

Not sure which Carr you're watching. He's overseen three different head coaches be fired and has posted two winning seasons and two playoff appearances in 8 years (zero wins).

The almost identical argument could have been made for Stafford before last year.  

 

He goes to a competent organization with a good (great?) HC, good weapons, good scheme, and he's in the NFC Championship game the next year.

 

Now, I know your retort is going to be Ron/Turner are not McVay/McVay (who doesn't technically carry the title of OC, but he is the defacto OC and is the play caller.)  And the team here is not as good as the Rams.  And I grant you all of that. So Carr coming here would likely not have the same results as Stafford going to the Rams.  

 

However, my point is, and Joe Thiesman has said this, QB is a dependent position.  You take a good QB who's been on bad teams and you change their situation, you could see them going from good to either really good or great.

 

I think Stafford is better than Carr, but he's probably 2-3 spots on the rankings better than Carr.  Not 10-12.  

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I saw an argument for this one WFT fan twitter and it does make sense to me.

If you can't access (or the options don't materialize), you could go sign Jameis Winston and use #11 on a QB or trade back to accumulate picks and take a Carson Strong or Desmond Ritter type QB in Round 2. Not saying that should be Plan A, but it wouldn't be a terrible option. Winston did look decent in the games he played last year with very limited offensive weapons. I assume he could be fully healed from his ACL and be a pretty cheap option when all is said and done.

 

In a perfect world, we could get Winston, trade #11 to a team coming up for a QB (taking their late 1st and 2023 1st). This gives you some flexibility both short and long-term.

I think I would be perfectly fine with Winston for a year, as he does have the most upside of anyone we could be targeting in that non-vet trade path.

[cakmoney61]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

No one that I have seen is advocating on trading a first for him. So where does this come from?

That's what the conversation has been on this board for several days.  I am responding to what I have read here.

Edited January 28, 2022 by cakmoney61

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, cakmoney61 said:

That's what the conversation has been on this board for several days.  I am responding to what I have read here.

I think you're reading it wrong. I don't think I've read anyone say they'd give up a 1 for him.

 

Are you reading between the lines? Or am I subconsciously ignoring people who say to give up a 1 for Jimmy G?