The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 hours ago, Conn said:

 

 

 

 

Did you scare him away? lol...

[CapsSkins]

Some of you people are crazy. Howell is not ready to start on a week's notice. He hasn't even been the backup, he's been 3rd string. He needs like a month to get proper practice reps, PLUS we have one of the toughest stretches of the schedule coming up which would not be putting him in a winning situation AND the season isn't yet totally lost, so you owe it to the other guys to play the guy who gives you the best chance to win which at this point is Heinicke.

 

In 5 weeks, that could all be different. He'd have the practice reps, be past the toughest stretch of the schedule, and the team could mathematically be out of it. Then you absolutely play him to see what you have. But not now. The timing on this matters. 

[justice98]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

As opposed to seeing an undrafted guy we already saw a full season of?

 

I seriously doubt folks are under the impression he’s going to light the world on fire, but what do they have to lose?

 

I think people are actually expecting Howell to be something though.  I've seen a lot of sentiment ever since he got drafted suggesting Howell was a steal and will outplay his draft position....by a lot.  

[justice98]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

Exactly where did I say I expected anything out of him!!  I specifcally said I had a mid rd project grade on him in the very post you quoted, meaning I do not expect much if anything. I just want to see him get some playing time to make sure of what they have which could be zero on maybe a solid #2 instead of just assuming. And maybe they got really lucky, again implying I do not expect a thing out of him. But let's at least see him play. The other 2 are **** and we know that for sure. No reason to play either one of them. 

 

Please read comments more carefully before responding.  

 

You didnt understand what I wrote.  I didnt say anything about what your expectations were.  All I said was it should make no difference if he gets in there and doesn't look terrible.  The last sentence of your post said you wanted to see him play to know what they needed to do in the draft.  Did it not say that?   

Edited October 15, 2022 by justice98

[goskins10]

20 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

You didnt understand what I wrote.  I didnt say anything about what your expectations were.  All I said was it should make no difference if he gets in there and doesn't look terrible.  The last sentence of your post said you wanted to see him play to know what they needed to do in the draft.  Did it not say that?   

 

This was your quote as part of the respoinse to my post: 

3 hours ago, justice98 said:

Leave it to this fanbase to demand to see a 5th rd pick thinking they're gonna do something.

 

 

If that was not intended for me then please state so.That is what I was commenting back on. 

 

Either way, I see no reason not to play Howell. And despte what some think, he can be ready enoguh during the mini bye. They have been getting hiom snaps all along. Not 1st team snaps but snaps. Ther other two we know are ****. let the rookie play. 

 

I fully expect them to be in the 1st rd QB lottery. But still wpould like to see the kid play. 

[Old Blue]

6 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That’s why TH threw it so high and short, so Terry could get away from triple coverage and come back to the ball.

 

I'm surprised people didn't realize they practiced that. Maybe they thought Terry read Taylor's mind.

[skins4ever28]

Taylor is an overachiever. He played great for his limitations physically. But if we really want to see what we can do, we have to put Howell in. It’s the only way to evaluate if we need to get a qb next year or not. Taylor will always be a backup, and a great one at that. But he’s not going to take any team deep into the playoffs

[Old Blue]

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

Removing all bias, no way anyone can say the offense would wouldn’t be better with Taylor or Wentz at this point. Wentz has not provided anything more than below to average football, the level Heineke established and maintained last year. 
 

I jumped off the Taylor train due to his surprising inconsistency in the short game and deciding to not play “balls to the wall”. From my view, he must squeeze out every ounce of his ability throughout games to hit his ceiling of being an above average starter. His run didn’t impact games enough at all. 

 

The funny thing is with Heinicke at the beginning of last year the bet was whether he could last a single game without getting injured. Then of course the goal posts moved tremendously.

[CommanderCarson]

15 minutes ago, Old Blue said:

The funny thing is with Heinicke at the beginning of last year the bet was whether he could last a single game without getting injured. Then of course the goal posts moved tremendously.

One of the strangest things I’ve ever seen as a fan is dismissing a guy despite all his physical limitations that at least goes out and gives the team a chance to win week I and week out. But not punting on the season meant getting someone that’s scored all of 10 points in the first half in the last 5 games. Admit you were wrong and move on. 

[HigSkin]

Do we really know that Wentz is out?  I ask because I believe Tom Brady played with messed up ring finger on his throwing hand this year.

[FootballZombie]

9 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Do we really know that Wentz is out?  I ask because I believe Tom Brady played with messed up ring finger on his throwing hand this year.

 

Not really.

 

This could be a short term thing or a 6 week thing or anywhere in between

[Voice_of_Reason]

I hope Wentz doesn't have to miss games.

 

If he does, I think they should play TH for the remainder of the season. 

 

I have no idea how or who is going to do this, but the fact they are going to let the interior of the OL destroy the season is absolutely maddening.  

[wit33]

 

 

2 hours ago, Old Blue said:

The funny thing is with Heinicke at the beginning of last year the bet was whether he could last a single game without getting injured. Then of course the goal posts moved tremendously.

He made it through, but at the mercy of his lone super power on the field, scrambling/creating. I get it on a personal level, he probably secured himself a 10 year career. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

...the fact they are going to let the interior of the OL destroy the season is absolutely maddening.  

 

 

[wit33]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I hope Wentz doesn't have to miss games.

 

If he does, I think they should play TH for the remainder of the season. 

 

I have no idea how or who is going to do this, but the fact they are going to let the interior of the OL destroy the season is absolutely maddening.  

Tough spot personally as a fan, no way do I want Washington paying Wentz 10-12% of the cap next season, but always want to be in the playoff race to the end. Worse case scenario is Washington ends up with 7-8 uninspiring wins for most part and Ron latching onto idea Wentz needs another off season. Resulting in Washington continuing to pay his contract. Historically unlikely, but I hope they play hardball and demand Wentz take a severe pay cut to remain the franchise QB. 
 

Zero interest in starting Howell at this point, Taylor all the way. Give Howell a completely meaningless game or two at the end of the season if available. 

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Historically unlikely, but I hope they play hardball and demand Wentz take a severe pay cut to remain the franchise QB. 

 

 

If Wentz takes the paycut, it gives him a pathway to a starting job next season, but it takes away any status as a franchise QB. He would be repeating this years scenario where he is essentially auditioning for the role again. The team would have added space to add other QBs be it a rookie or camp competition.

 

I can see a situation where we bring him back at a severely reduced price, and he may agree to it as this place is his best oppo to start given his background in the system. No matter where he goes he's gonna get paired with another QB for a camp competition, or he's playing seat warmer until a young guy is ready... Not factoring Howell of course. At least here, he'd have the leg up of knowing the plays.

 

I see no scenario where he is given reigns as a franchise QB. He'll get the chance to hold his spot if and only if he balls out and we should be in a much better position to yank him need be next season.

Edited October 16, 2022 by FootballZombie

[wit33]

8 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

If Wentz takes the paycut, it gives him a pathway to a starting job next season, but it takes away any status as a franchise QB. He would be repeating this years scenario where he is essentially auditioning for the role again. The team would have added space to add other QBs be it a rookie or camp competition.

 

Franchise QB was probably too strong, but the idea being the franchise will move forward with him while getting paid “well”. He must continue to earn his pay and starting position. This idea the average to below average QBs must be provided the same support as the great to elite guys is wild.

 

Wentz should be treated no differently than say a “William Jackson”. 

 

11 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I can see a situation where we bring him back at a severely reduced price, and he may agree to it as this place is his best oppo to start given his background in the system. No matter where he goes he's gonna get paired with another QB for a camp competition, or he's playing seat warmer until a young guy is ready... Not factoring Howell of course. At least here, he'd have the leg up of knowing the plays.

 

YES, exactly this. My hope is the organization leverages this to get the best deal for the team. Forget feelings, it’s business and what value is a dude providing. As I continue to get older the more I feel most organizations are fighting to keep their high paying jobs and seek mediocrity to continue punching life changing pay checks. 
 

Have absolutely zero interest in Howell. The logic a 5th round draft pick will be the future franchise QB is lost on me. Am I open minded to a miracle? 100%. Though, I rather draft 

a freak talent and let the roulette wheel spin and hope it hits the franchise QB number. 36:1 odds is about right lol
 

 

11 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I see no scenario where he is given reigns as a franchise QB. He'll get the chance to hold his spot if and only if he balls out and we should be in a much better position to yank him need be next season.

 

Agreed. 

[Renegade7]

6 hours ago, Old Blue said:

The funny thing is with Heinicke at the beginning of last year the bet was whether he could last a single game without getting injured. Then of course the goal posts moved tremendously.

 

*sigh, because the standard for simply lasting in this league and being a franchise QB are completely different universes from each other. That's not unreasonable.

[Renegade7]

7 hours ago, skins4ever28 said:

Taylor is an overachiever. He played great for his limitations physically. But if we really want to see what we can do, we have to put Howell in. It’s the only way to evaluate if we need to get a qb next year or not. Taylor will always be a backup, and a great one at that. But he’s not going to take any team deep into the playoffs

 

I honestly believe if Howell had enough to prevent us from using our first pick in the draft on a QB this offseason, we would know by now.

 

Projects are projects, potential is potential, this franchise needs a lot more then another potential Colt Brennan thread.

 

I'm open to the question of can he be a serviceable backup to allow Taylor to walk, but truth, Taylor in a contract year is likely leaving for a chance to start anyway, we don't need Howell playing this year for that to happen next.

 

Nervous throwing Howell out there behind that oline, no one deserves that, especially someone too Green to protect themselves in anyway from it.

 

Taylor wants to get buckled over like an accordion to prove he belongs in this league, fine, be careful what you wish for, might just get it.

[Wyvern]

Oddly, the dink-&-dunk play style that Heinicke uses, improves the chances of not having to surrender the 2nd rounder to the Colts, instead of a 3rd.

 

It's 70% of the SNAPS, not games.  And, as I recall, the Heinicke-led offenses inched their way down the field, with lots of short plays, eating clock, but more importantly lots of snaps.  His arm wasn't strong enough for a 5-play drive involving a 55 yard gain leading to a score.

 

Howell seems to have the long passing ability, which combined with Turner may leads to drives with fewer snaps (drives ending with incompletes, scoring, or interceptions.)

 

Considering Rivera's value set on loyalty to veterans who give their all, I'd be very surprised if he leapfrogged Heinicke to start Howell.

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 hours ago, Wyvern said:

Oddly, the dink-&-dunk play style that Heinicke uses, improves the chances of not having to surrender the 2nd rounder to the Colts, instead of a 3rd.

 

It's 70% of the SNAPS, not games.  And, as I recall, the Heinicke-led offenses inched their way down the field, with lots of short plays, eating clock, but more importantly lots of snaps.  His arm wasn't strong enough for a 5-play drive involving a 55 yard gain leading to a score.

 

Howell seems to have the long passing ability, which combined with Turner may leads to drives with fewer snaps (drives ending with incompletes, scoring, or interceptions.)

 

Considering Rivera's value set on loyalty to veterans who give their all, I'd be very surprised if he leapfrogged Heinicke to start Howell.

Unless the the OL improves dramatically, we’re going to see a lot of what we’ve seen the last few weeks 

 

Keep in mind, however, Wentz ended the Titans game with 350 yards and a 9+ yards per attempt.  The chance of that goes out the window with TH.  It’s possible with Howell.  
 

TH also puts a limited on the best part of the offense, the deep strike ability of the weapons.  
 

Howell doesn’t put that limiter on the offense.

 

However, he is a 5th round rookie.  He’s raw, small, and going to be playing behind an atrocious interior OL so he’s going to have pressure in his face immediately.

 

At least Wentz is a giant.  He can stand in there and see over guys.  Neither TH or Howell can do that.

 

So I’d personally prefer not to have Howell go out there and get the snot beaten out of him and everybody turn on him immediately because he’s not ready and the OL sucks.  
 

If somebody is going to suck, I’d prefer it to be TH. 
 

All this to say, I don’t think it matters which one plays to preserve the 2nd round pick.  I think it’s safe either way if they play 6 games.  

Edited October 16, 2022 by Voice_of_Reason

[profusion]

Wentz is a tough guy and is already injured and missing time by Week 7.

 

With this OL, I'm more worried about Heinecke's health than I am about his performance. Can we just play one of the reserve OL at "quarterback" and direct snap to the RBs?

[Malapropismic Depository]

13 hours ago, Old Blue said:

The funny thing is with Heinicke at the beginning of last year the bet was whether he could last a single game without getting injured. Then of course the goal posts moved tremendously.

 

Yep. Three years in a row, this "perceived non-durable" QB has replaced an injured starter : Smith in '20. Fitz in '21. Wentz in '22.

And in the meantime, hasn't missed a single game due to injury, with the exception, I think, of a CV positive last year.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Yep. Three years in a row, this "perceived non-durable" QB has replaced an injured starter : Smith in '20. Fitz in '21. Wentz in '22.

And in the meantime, hasn't missed a single game due to injury, with the exception, I think, of a CV positive last year.

 

Yeah, but in fairness, in '20 he separated his shoulder in the one game he played.  Which is why there were injury concerns, up to that point, he hadn't finished a game he had started.

 

He did bulk up last off-season so he could take a beating better, which was good for him.  Why he didn't do that before, who knows.  

 

My concern is more that he's short (as is Howell), and the 3 interior OL are being pushed directly backwards into the QB on every pass play.  At least Wentz was big enough to see over some of that mess.  TH is not.  

 

So when Charles, Larsen or Nowell ends up in his lap, he's just going to fall over.  Maybe he can escape.  But then he doesn't have the arm strength to get the ball more than 10 yards down field.

 

I leave open the possibility that the fact he knows the offense, for 1-2 weeks, there could be a spark.  However, I think that's going to be about it.  Defenses, if they are smart, are going to stack the line and dare the Commanders to run into 8 and 9 man boxes, which my guess is they will try to do.  And they will mostly fail.  Putting TH into known passing situations.  Which they will fail at.

 

Now, Joe Barry is an idiot.  So it might take him a month to figure out TH is playing QB.  But the rest of the DCs we will face will figure it out.

 

And again, all that said, I wouldn't play Howell, because I think the same thing will play out, and if it's going to play out, I'd prefer not ruin the rookie who has some potential for the guy who's an odds on favorite to be out of the league next year.  

[stoshuaj]

Who is the 3rd option after TH gets folded up like a lawn chair and SH gets ruined.?

 

just asking…..