The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[samy316]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

It’s starting. Media is stirring the pot and people are starting.

 

We’ll see if it continues. I think he’ll shut them up. But it’s beginning.

 

It's tough, we shouldn't be turning on Sam, it's not his fault that his coach utterly failed to equip him with even an adequate O-Line.  This line has the potential to be an absolute disaster, and will derail any hopes of a successful season before it even starts.  That falls on the coach and the FO.  Ron & Co. will be to blame, and should take the heat if Sam's under duress, and under pressure. 

 

Nobody should be turning on Sam, if he struggles out of the gate, especially if it's at the hands of a terrible O-Line.  All ire should be directed at one person, Ron Rivera.

Edited August 3, 2023 by samy316

[DiscoBob]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

This fanbase has literally lost its collective mind.

 

What amounts to a rookie QB is having a medium camp against what is supposedly one of the best defenses in the league and has no OL and we are already beginning to turn on the guy. Surreal. 

 

I agree, but when did anyone accuse our fanbase of being rationale?

 

Our most famous fans dress up like old grandmas with pig noses... we are an emotionally unstable bunch 👍

[zCommander]

The media and some fans can turn on Sam all they want. I am glad Sam is playing/practicing against a top 5 defense. He won't be facing top 5 defenses all season long. But the other teams will be facing our top 5 defense instead. This will build confidence not just for Sam but the whole team as well.

[Mr. Sinister]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

It’s starting. Media is stirring the pot and people are starting.

 

We’ll see if it continues. I think he’ll shut them up. But it’s beginning.

 

Meh, it is what is. This media only knows one thing... Chaos. I said it even while Snyder was still owner. If Chaos is all you know how to do (because it's all you've known) then that's what's going to happen.

 

I hope Howell is the one to end it. Only sustained success will snap everyone out of this drain circling/negativity machine 

[SkinsFTW]

Howell might have to get the ball out like Dan Marino to stand a chance behind that awful OL. 

[Conn]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

It’s starting. Media is stirring the pot and people are starting.

 

We’ll see if it continues. I think he’ll shut them up. But it’s beginning.

Rivera is stirring the pot, to be fair. In the midst of telling the media that what they’re seeing with Howell isn’t anything to be alarmed by because they don’t know what the coaches are asking him to do to aid their evaluations, he brings up Brissett. Not a big deal but it’s what’s alarming some of the more touchy folk.
 

There’s nothing anyone in the fanbase or media can do to hurt the situation if Howell takes care of his business, though. He isn’t in the best situation to succeed, but he’s also being afforded an opportunity to take every single first team snap as a 2nd year former 5th round pick. It’s his job for the taking (and already is his job, unless he face-plants). Which he’d have a hard time getting almost anywhere else. It’s in his hands to change his own life and make ungodly amounts of money if he can exceed expectations and beat the odds. Not easy especially with this OL, but he’ll have a chance to shut everyone up every week this season. 
 

Sometimes I think because many here like Howell a lot and don’t view him as a typical 5th round QB (all fair and well supported), they forget how utterly insane it is in a vacuum that a probable lame duck coaching staff with a new OC is pushing all their chips in on a guy like Howell. It’s crazy. If it doesn’t work and he gets crushed every week or just sucks or throws 17 INT the entire world is going to look back and say “uhh no doy”. I don’t think that’s going to happen, but it’s within the realm of reasonable outcomes. So trepidation and fear that we’re about to look like fools like we almost always do with our chosen QB solution is understandable imo. 
 

The vibe here is mostly hope, excitement, and crossed fingers for Howell imo. But an undercurrent of “are we crazy to even be optimistic in this situation” is extremely understandable and maybe even rational. I’m not gonna label that sort of hesitance as “giving up” on a young player or being a chicken little lol. Because it is sort of wild. I’m rooting for him and cautiously optimistic. But expectations are pretty high from some given the circumstances. 

[KDawg]

5 hours ago, Conn said:

Rivera is stirring the pot, to be fair. In the midst of telling the media that what they’re seeing with Howell isn’t anything to be alarmed by because they don’t know what the coaches are asking him to do to aid their evaluations, he brings up Brissett. Not a big deal but it’s what’s alarming some of the more touchy folk.
 

There’s nothing anyone in the fanbase or media can do to hurt the situation if Howell takes care of his business, though. He isn’t in the best situation to succeed, but he’s also being afforded an opportunity to take every single first team snap as a 2nd year former 5th round pick. It’s his job for the taking (and already is his job, unless he face-plants). Which he’d have a hard time getting almost anywhere else. It’s in his hands to change his own life and make ungodly amounts of money if he can exceed expectations and beat the odds. Not easy especially with this OL, but he’ll have a chance to shut everyone up every week this season. 
 

Sometimes I think because many here like Howell a lot and don’t view him as a typical 5th round QB (all fair and well supported), they forget how utterly insane it is in a vacuum that a probable lame duck coaching staff with a new OC is pushing all their chips in on a guy like Howell. It’s crazy. If it doesn’t work and he gets crushed every week or just sucks or throws 17 INT the entire world is going to look back and say “uhh no doy”. I don’t think that’s going to happen, but it’s within the realm of reasonable outcomes. So trepidation and fear that we’re about to look like fools like we almost always do with our chosen QB solution is understandable imo. 
 

The vibe here is mostly hope, excitement, and crossed fingers for Howell imo. But an undercurrent of “are we crazy to even be optimistic in this situation” is extremely understandable and maybe even rational. I’m not gonna label that sort of hesitance as “giving up” on a young player or being a chicken little lol. Because it is sort of wild. I’m rooting for him and cautiously optimistic. But expectations are pretty high from some given the circumstances. 

I’m doing none of that. This fanbase and the media has a bad habit of turning on guys too fast. Has nothing to do with my like for Howell. Trust me, if he ****s the bed I’ll be one of the first ones critical of him.

[stoshuaj]

Wait a minute, what’s this about the OL being an issue now?  A month ago ol EB was just going to schemity scheme scheme-a-roo the OL out of existence.

 

Now, RPO seems to stand for:

R - run Sam, RUN (for your life)

P - pray, a lot 

O - oh ****, that looks like it hurt

[DJHJR86]

15 hours ago, MartinC said:

But the starter is a young QB and we are installing a new system. He’s not going to look like prime Joe Montana.

 

I don't think he should.  I also don't think grandiose expectations (like making the playoffs and winning a game) should be placed on him this year.

14 hours ago, Hooper said:

I'm more worried about Eric B than Howell. Has a ton to prove IMO. So far all we know for sure is that he yells a lot. I get why we hired him, but there's a scenario where he's a disaster. He has been before. 

 

This is the other factor that a lot of people are ignoring this offseason.  This guy has more red flags than Wentz did last year.  It very well could end up being a disaster; which is a terrible thing for Howell's development.

[DJHJR86]

7 hours ago, Conn said:

Sometimes I think because many here like Howell a lot and don’t view him as a typical 5th round QB (all fair and well supported), they forget how utterly insane it is in a vacuum that a probable lame duck coaching staff with a new OC is pushing all their chips in on a guy like Howell. It’s crazy. If it doesn’t work and he gets crushed every week or just sucks or throws 17 INT the entire world is going to look back and say “uhh no doy”. I don’t think that’s going to happen, but it’s within the realm of reasonable outcomes. So trepidation and fear that we’re about to look like fools like we almost always do with our chosen QB solution is understandable imo. 

 

It's bizarre to me that certain fans will not even entertain this as a possibility.  And it has nothing to do with turning on Howell or disliking him.  It's reality.    

Edited August 3, 2023 by DJHJR86

[Darrell Green Fan]

I don't see EB having more red flags than Carson Freaking Wentz.  The Wentz trade brought a lot of criticism from most people who weight in on the trade, criticism that obviously turned out to be valid. I have heard no such criticism on the hiring of EB.  He is very well regarded and I think that was a great hire.  I wish I shared the optimism on Sam Howell, I really do. But this is such a long shot, even with a good OL.  

[FootballZombie]

I disagree w/ the Wentz comparison. Wentz came in w/ a lot of negatives and a massive lack of faith from everyone not connected to this team. There was uber confidence in the idea that it was simply not gonna work out well for us, and the media let us have it in nearly unprecedented fashion.

 

EB has some deep past red flags that everybody is gonna keep their eye on, but as a true OC he's just a big "?" cuz he has never really had the job before.

No one can say with evidence that he sucks, b/c he's never had the oppo to suck. No one say with evidence that he is good either b/c he's never had the oppo to be good. Until he installs his own O and calls some plays... he's just a ? Maybe his scheme will work out well... maybe it will suck horribly...

 

JB is a vet that you know can do the job in a serviceable manner, but there is still some level of ? attached to him as he is learning a new system

 

Howell just has 1 game under his belt, which makes him amazingly less of a ? than EB, but still a tremendous ? himself.

 

 

 

[MartinC]

35 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

I don't think he should.  I also don't think grandiose expectations (like making the playoffs and winning a game) should be placed on him this year.

Completely agree. That’s not the lens through which his performance should be judged.

[DJHJR86]

23 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I don't see EB having more red flags than Carson Freaking Wentz.  The Wentz trade brought a lot of criticism from most people who weight in on the trade, criticism that obviously turned out to be valid. I have heard no such criticism on the hiring of EB.  He is very well regarded and I think that was a great hire.  I wish I shared the optimism on Sam Howell, I really do. But this is such a long shot, even with a good OL.  

 

16 teams interviewed him and passed on him.  That's a red flag inasmuch as it was a red flag that Wentz was on his 3rd team in three years.  The other huge red flag is how terrible the only offense he was solely in control of looked when he was Colorado's offensive coordinator.  The reason you didn't hear the same amount of criticism on the hiring of EB is because the national media has been pounding the table for this guy to get a head coaching job for the last 4 years or so whereas Wentz was the punching bag for a lot of the national media.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by DJHJR86

[Warhead36]

All that said, I still think EB will be a big upgrade as the OC over Turner.

[MartinC]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

All that said, I still think EB will be a big upgrade as the OC over Turner.

To be fair to Turner he was badly hamstrung by what he had at the QB position. But 100% agree that the bar has been set very low for EB to clear to be an improvement.

[HigSkin]

Good listen especially the parts about Howell.

 

 

[redskinss]

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

All that said, I still think EB will be a big upgrade as the OC over Turner.

That's kind of where I'm at, we do have so many question marks on offense that I don't have high expectations, I'm just kind of in wait and see mode but really they have nowhere to go but up, the offensive line play the quarterback play and the coordinator were all about as bad as you can get last year so why not be a little hopeful, being as bad as last year is almost worse case scenario. 

[Koolblue13]

Ron love to stir the pot when it comes to QB and he doesn't seem to have any faith in Howell, or even want to. Going back to last season saying he'd start Sam if we were eliminated, then even after someone explained to Ron that we were actually eliminated, tried to start Sneakers, but the team kinda revolted on him.

 

Now, when asked about Howell, who is and should be the unquestioned day 1 starter and remain the starter, unless he puts together a string of absolute trash games, he's bringing up the back up without even being proded to do it. 

 

It makes no sense. The only way that Ron has any chance of keeping his gig, is SamWow having a great year. If he struggles or if Rons dumb ass benches him for mediocre play, for the mediocre Brissett, he's gone. 

 

But hell, I'm hoping for a complete clean out that lands us Ben Johnson as HC and Brandon Staley as our DC next year, along with a GM from the Eagles, so Let Ron go ahead and Riverboat is future.

[DJHJR86]

7 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

But hell, I'm hoping for a complete clean out that lands us Ben Johnson as HC and Brandon Staley as our DC next year, along with a GM from the Eagles, so Let Ron go ahead and Riverboat is future.

 

This is where I'm at.  I am extremely optimistic about the future of this team now that the cancer has been removed.  But his fingerprints are still on this team going into this year and until those fingerprints are gone, I can't get hyped about the upcoming season like others.  

[Conn]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

I’m doing none of that. This fanbase and the media has a bad habit of turning on guys too fast. Has nothing to do with my like for Howell. Trust me, if he ****s the bed I’ll be one of the first ones critical of him.

Does it matter? Fans are emotional creatures. And fans of this team who expressed doubt have been correct far more often than fans who chose to believe (that should be changing now). People like to say this. It’s one of stevemcqueen’s big things, in terms of player development. I can’t think of a player who was seemingly ruined by this and could have succeeded otherwise. Most of our players that went from “early fan favorite” to over-criticized bust were fatally flawed to begin with in ways that would become apparent later. I don’t think fan sentiment really matters that much in this regard. Haskins or Cravens or to be less dramatic, let’s say a mid-level disappointment like Orakpo, weren’t going to turn out to be better players and producers if the fans just gave them more of a chance. 

Ironically the player fans might have been most emotionally compromised about who somehow ended up underrated was Trent. People forgot what greatness in progress looks like. But I don’t think it impacted that ****show of a situation. 

 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Conn said:

Does it matter? Fans are emotional creatures. And fans of this team who expressed doubt have been correct far more often than fans who chose to believe (that should be changing now). People like to say this. It’s one of stevemcqueen’s big things, in terms of player development. I can’t think of a player who was seemingly ruined by this and could have succeeded otherwise. Most of our players that went from “early fan favorite” to over-criticized bust were fatally flawed to begin with in ways that would become apparent later. I don’t think fan sentiment really matters that much in this regard. Haskins or Cravens or to be less dramatic, let’s say a mid-level disappointment like Orakpo, weren’t going to turn out to be better players and producers if the fans just gave them more of a chance. 

Ironically the player fans might have been most emotionally compromised about who somehow ended up underrated was Trent. People forgot what greatness in progress looks like. But I don’t think it impacted that ****show of a situation. 

 

Yes, it matters. 

[Conn]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Yes, it matters. 

It’s intuitive to think that it could, but can you explain why you believe that? 

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, Conn said:

It’s intuitive to think that it could, but can you explain why you believe that? 

We can say media and fan perception doesn’t matter. These are professional athletes. But that’s not true anymore. These guys aren’t the same as they were 20 years ago. They are more in tune with their mental health and feelings. That’s not a bad thing. But it certainly adds layers.

 

When you are supported you are more likely to be successful. When you are not supported or constantly criticized you are less likely to achieve results needed.

 

Sure, there are more polarizing cases of players who have done fine. But all in all support leads to development. Organizational, media and fans play a role. 
 

Wentz is the latest example of going from fully supported to not and at the same time going from NFL MVP caliber seasons to… well… ya. Now, there are other factors there for him as well. But the point remains. 
 

Jumping to conclusions on Howell before a preseason game is played is silly. Id say that about any rookie/semi rookie QB out there. Ridder, Purdy, Love, etc. 

 

Let’s see what happens in games before we worry too much. And in our case: it’s not like Brissett is a great option for a QB to elevate. Brissett’s value is that he is a pro and can keep a franchise afloat. He isn’t going to come in and change the tides.

[Gurgeh]

Playing behind a bad line has ruined the career of better prospects than Sam Howell.

 

Good teams put their players in a position to succeed, but this year we seem to have done the opposite for our QBs. If Sam does work out, it won't be because of the staff, it will be despite them.