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The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

Koolblue13

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

No my interest was trying to understand Pat's system more. It's less about Heinicke who I think is gone now. I'm thinking about how will Howell work in this system, especially in his first year. 

 

So I was wondering if I could find a write-up of the system, similarities between our and a Norv system vs an Andy system (or WCO) and just something quantitative about how QBs do in this system. 

 

I think what I found says that it does have more similarities to a WCO but they didn't call it one because of the TEs and the deep shots and Pat's creativity and the fact that it changed slightly in each place. WCOs very so much though that I don't think this is enough to say it's not a WCO though. 

 

I like WCO because I think they make arm strength less of a liability (traditional WCO) and they seem to be easier to learn based on their presence in the league. But many WCOs replace the running game with short passes and I don't think Ron would go for that, or maybe he would. 

 

But for Howell, I'm wondering how hard it will be to go from numbers to letters or whatever it will be. 

 

If its Shurmur he ran a heavy RPO system for Chip Kelly in the mix of his coaching tenure.  Howell ran a heavy RPO system in college.  Some of the marriage in playcalling, might be driven by that.  

 

55 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

Skins to prospective OCs: Howell is our QB1 moving forward

 

Prospective OCs to Skins: You have no other QB under contract

 

Heinicke was the QB under contract at the start of the off season last season.  Yet, don't recall any Heinicke QB1 talk, that's who we are riding with last off season.   The narrative from the jump from the beat guys then was they want to make a splash at the QB spot, so now this off season they are saying the opposite. 

 

Rivera pretty much put up a billboard saying they are shopping for QB1 from the onset of last off season.  So don't get the crowd who are saying there is nothing to see here, its just business as usual.  It's VERY different narrative from the last time.

 

For me I am pausing until i hear what Keim thinks.  But if this rhetoric holds, it feels very different than the last off season. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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CapsSkins

CapsSkins

Posted
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If its Shurmur he ran a heavy RPO system for Chip Kelly in the mix of his coaching tenure.  Howell ran a heavy RPO system in college.  Some of the marriage in playcalling, might be driven by that.  

 

 

Heinicke was the QB under contract at the start of the off season last season.  Yet, don't recall any Heinicke QB1 talk, that's who we are riding with last off season.   The narrative from the jump from the beat guys then was they want to make a splash at the QB spot, so now this off season they are saying the opposite. 

 

Rivera pretty much put up a billboard saying they are shopping for QB1 from the onset of last off season.  So don't get the crowd who are saying there is nothing to see here, its just business as usual.  It's VERY different narrative from the last time.

 

For me I am pausing until i hear what Keim thinks.  But if this rhetoric holds, it feels very different than the last off season. 


I would bet money (by which I mean I would post on an Internet message board under an anonymous screen name that I would bet money) that we will run significant RPO next season for Howell no matter who the OC ends up being.

 

 

Edited by CapsSkins
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skinzplay

skinzplay

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For me I am pausing until i hear what Keim thinks.  But if this rhetoric holds, it feels very different than the last off season. 

 

That's how I usually roll too. He's THE MAN when it comes to grounded, reliable insight on what's going down.

 

As for my quip on the QB1 stuff, just having a little fun. I forgot to throw in an 'lol' like our constipated friend. 😁It's gonna be a loooooong off-season.

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CommanderCarson

CommanderCarson

Posted
Posted

Going with Howell next year is super smart and I’m really relieved and hoping they are serious about not doing a repeat of last year paying a vet $25M plus.

 

Attack offensive line corner and LB aggressively with the funds you are saving by not paying a QB very much money. Just like the Eagles have done with Hurts. Re sign Payne. Worst case scenario is that Howell stinks and you spent one more off season making your roster one of the best in the league. But I think there’s something to Sammie boy. 
 

Also, the 5th round pick thing is completely over blown and I even catch myself sometimes referring to Howell as a 5th rounder and thus it’s unlikely he pans out. I suppose that’s true bc it’s hard to hit on QBs in general, but Howell very much belonged in the 2-3 round range last year. Seems like one the league just over thought, and frankly we’re lucky we have him on the roster because we didn’t want to damage Wentz’ psyche and take him earlier. Had Wentz not been here, we probably do take him where he really belonged, which was far before round 5. 
 

I think this is the smartest decision Rivera and company have made since they have been here and I’m honestly starting to feel that losing the browns game was the best thing that could have ever happened to this franchise. Be aggressive this off season both in the draft and FA and go all in with the belief you belong in the playoffs next year. Because they do.

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method man

method man

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, CommanderCarson said:

Going with Howell next year is super smart and I’m really relieved and hoping they are serious about not doing a repeat of last year paying a vet $25M plus.

 

Attack offensive line corner and LB aggressively with the funds you are saving by not paying a QB very much money. Just like the Eagles have done with Hurts. Re sign Payne. Worst case scenario is that Howell stinks and you spent one more off season making your roster one of the best in the league. But I think there’s something to Sammie boy. 
 

Also, the 5th round pick thing is completely over blown and I even catch myself sometimes referring to Howell as a 5th rounder and thus it’s unlikely he pans out. I suppose that’s true bc it’s hard to hit on QBs in general, but Howell very much belonged in the 2-3 round range last year. Seems like one the league just over thought, and frankly we’re lucky we have him on the roster because we didn’t want to damage Wentz’ psyche and take him earlier. Had Wentz not been here, we probably do take him where he really belonged, which was far before round 5. 
 

I think this is the smartest decision Rivera and company have made since they have been here and I’m honestly starting to feel that losing the browns game was the best thing that could have ever happened to this franchise. Be aggressive this off season both in the draft and FA and go all in with the belief you belong in the playoffs next year. Because they do.


Yep Keim reported they would’ve drafted him earlier had it not been for Carson

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Redwards

Redwards

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

OK, so your disagreemenrt with my point means to you this does not indicate that they are genuinely jazzed about Howell.

 

Then the heart of our disagreement is what makes Rivera tick?    For me I don't think there is any chance if Rivera thinks --  Howell?  He has no positive feel for how it will go?  But what the hell lets suck it up and see what happens?  For a dude who rhetoric wise and from what beat guys say is obsessed with QB1 and he believes that's the #1 thing that felled his tenure -- in turn, I seriously doubt he's not enthusiastic about riding with Howell, if that is what they indeed do.    And in turn pass on Carr, Jimmy G or whomever. 

 

Could Grant's sources be deceiving him because no way would they leak their overall intentions at that spot?  Grant doesn't report much but when he does he tends to be on the money.  So I am banking on it likely being correct.   But I'll give you that for me to 100% buy in that it's likely I need to hear it from Keim.    And I do think like anything in life if some unexpected happy circumstance develops to make a move, they'd consider, things change. 

 

But yeah I do think they are genuinely jazzed about Howell not just based on yesterday's reports but also insiders I trust who talked about it including Logan Paulsen.  I don't think thats off base.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm glad it looks like they are going to try and roll with Howell, for a few reasons.

 

1. This team desperately needs to find out if they have anything of measure in him.  The odds of a 5th rounder becoming a true franchise QB are long but it doesn't mean it can't happen.  

 

2. As has been discussed a million times, this staff is (in all likelihood) a lame duck staff.  I think we've seen their ceiling already, so I don't expect anything great from them next year.  All I hear and see is excuse making.  The last thing the fans need is for this staff to saddle the next owner and FO with another terrible move for a veteran QB and giving up precious assets to boot.

 

It's really all about building the O line, finding a true shutdown CB and finding LBs that can make their presence felt consistently.  We have none of that at the moment.  IF they can do that, it can really help the new regime going into 2024.

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Dark Acre

Dark Acre

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Redwards said:

I'm glad it looks like they are going to try and roll with Howell, for a few reasons.

1. This team desperately needs to find out if they have anything of measure in him.  The odds of a 5th rounder becoming a true franchise QB are long but it doesn't mean it can't happen.  

For criminy's sake, Brock Purdy is starting in the 2nd round of the playoffs and has won 6 straight games.

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stoshuaj

stoshuaj

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Captain James said:

How the eff do we not have a Daniel Jones or Brock Purdy? Capable QBs clearly don't need to be flashy or famous.

Because they have ta have ta tank into the top of the 1st round to be able to get a viable qb.  
**sarcasm intended**

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kingdaddy

kingdaddy

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, CommanderCarson said:

 

I think this is the smart Rivera and company have made since they have been here and I’m honestly starting to feel that losing the browns game was the best thing that could have ever happened to this franchise. Be aggressive this off season both in the draft and FA and go all in with the belief you belong in the playoffs next year. Because they do.

I agree, we needed to get a look at Howell and losing to the Browns made that happen. We weren't gonna win the SB this year so missing the playoffs is OK. Beating Dallas with Howell is like going into halftime having just made a buzzer beater in basketball; the entire psyche of the organization just got a boost. 

I love that we can now spend all over the roster while rolling with Howell...I have that much faith in this kid. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)

The way Daniel Jones is running which is fearlessly, something Heinicke wouldn't do even remotely but Howell the way he played in North Carolina and also last Sunday would do the same -- actually gets me a little jazzed thinking about it for next season.

 

The Vikings defense granted has struggled versus just about every QB in the 2nd half of the season aside from versus Heinicke who they looked like the 85 Bears against -- but wow are they struggiling with Jones on the ground.

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Captain James said:

How the eff do we not have a Daniel Jones or Brock Purdy? Capable QBs clearly don't need to be flashy or famous.

 

Meh, Daniel Jones is an incredibly mediocre QB. The main reason he's more successful this season is that his new OC is intentionally limiting the amount of passing he has to do and essentially turning him into a running back. Which can only last for so long.

 

I'm actually ecstatic that he's gotten just good enough to where they might have no choice but to keep him. Because it means they'll have to give a mediocre QB an enormous contract that will probably take up a fair amount of cap space and hamstring them in the future.

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glongest

glongest

Posted
Posted

Kirk, I'll put you up some stats but I can't win you a big game, Cousins.  You have played all season, its fourth down, you need 8 yards to continue your drive in a playoff game on your home field in front of your home crowd, or you go home and you throw a 4 yard check down to a guy with a defender in his hip pocket. Really?  What an idiot.  

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