The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Zim489 said:

It really is the best case scenario. 

 

Just punt on the season and make no moves that makes it harder for the next group to succeed. 

 

I wish they would give as blank of a slate as possible but thats not happening unfortunately. 

Agree but I am coming at it from a different angle. I think Howell legit could end up the guy. It doesn’t bug me that he was taken in the 5th round at all. Let’s see it play out. I wasn’t optimistic about Haskins (RIP) when we took him even though he was a first rounder. Howell I think has a legit shot 

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Leaning more that way. But we still have the biggest obstacle of every team in the League on our hands.

True I won’t be optimistic officially until Dan is a goner 

[Zim489]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

Agree but I am coming at it from a different angle. I think Howell legit could end up the guy. It doesn’t bug me that he was taken in the 5th round at all. Let’s see it play out. I wasn’t optimistic about Haskins (RIP) when we took him even though he was a first rounder. Howell I think has a legit shot 

I have extreme doubts about him succeeding because thats what the historical stats say. But he showed enough in one game to show that I am not dreading him playing like I did with Taylor. 

 

Its also a no lose situation. If he bombs out and we fail in Rons lame duck season where everyone has tuned him out and we end up with a top 5 pick in a great QB draft fantastic. If Howell is great, awesome we finally had some luck go our way.

 

Just for the love of god dont finish in picks 10-17 again

[CobraCommander]

If that news about Howell is true then it's music to my ears. I hope this attracts a quality OC and pushes away the ones that want to bring in their QB.  

[Koolblue13]

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Leaning more that way. But we still have the biggest obstacle of every team in the League on our hands.

Being able to provide long term contracts for Leno, Sweat, Bostic and Holcomb?

[CobraCommander]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Being able to provide long term contracts for Leno, Sweat, Bostic and Holcomb?

No, no silly. On who we should keep, Dax Milne or Troy Apke.

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

No, no silly. On who we should keep, Dax Milne or Troy Apke.

TRAPKE!!!

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[woodpecker]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Sounds like us fans are getting what we want! I know we probably need to pump the brakes on our enthusiasm for Howell after one start, but I think I’m on board with all of you who are saying roll with him as QB1. It just makes sense… sure, chances are he will not pan out, but even then it will leave us in a great spot for the following year with the new owner firmly in place and a stacked roster. For once we will be in a position to attract top-of-the-line talent as needed at GM, coach, quarterback.

[KDawg]

33 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Being able to provide long term contracts for Leno, Sweat, Bostic and Holcomb?

I realize the humor in this statement but to bounce off of this: I’d love Holcomb as depth. And if we can’t find a starter there are worse guys than Holcomb. But… finding an upgrade is important there. 
 

Sweat… I’d just trade him before we lose him. I know I seem down on him but I’m not. I just don’t think he’s a stud pass rusher. He wins at the LoS but he’s not a closer. Wouldn’t pay him premium pass rusher money when I think guys like Toohill and JSW can fill in reliably. 
 

I also don’t hate Leno. But his bad plays stick out like sore thumbs. I’d prefer him to be depth but starter surrounded by better than F quality players he’s not a bad option.

 

Bostic… yeah.

[Skinsinparadise]

Lol I noticed almost every offensive coordinator is  crapped on by fans on Twitter and offensive coordinators aren’t given a pass if they fail as head coaches. 
 

So I know some would hate Shurmur as they would any candidate but not me. I liked him In Minnesota, that was the one year where Keenum had a good season in his career. And I liked his play calling with the Giants albiet they lacked offensive fire power. 
 

At a minimum he isn’t an experiment. He’s not my  first choice but Id take him over Zampese 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, woodpecker said:

Sounds like us fans are getting what we want! I know we probably need to pump the brakes on our enthusiasm for Howell after one start, but I think I’m on board with all of you who are saying roll with him as QB1. It just makes sense… sure, chances are he will not pan out, but even then it will leave us in a great spot for the following year with the new owner firmly in place and a stacked roster. For once we will be in a position to attract top-of-the-line talent as needed at GM, coach, quarterback.

Why are chances that he won’t pan out? Is that the case with rookie quarterbacks who were considered a potential top pick and then dropped to the fifth round usually? Or is this kind of unprecedented?

[woodpecker]

Just now, KDawg said:

Why are chances that he won’t pan out? Is that the case with rookie quarterbacks who were considered a potential top pick and then dropped to the fifth round usually? Or is this kind of unprecedented?

Hey I’m excited about him as well, just trying to be realistic. Whether he’s picked in the first round or fifth, the odds are against any quarterback becoming a franchise QB one

[Zim489]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Lol I noticed almost every offensive coordinator is  crapped on by fans on Twitter and offensive coordinators aren’t given a pass if they fail as head coaches. 
 

So I know some would hate Shurmur as they would any candidate but not me. I liked him In Minnesota, that was the one year where Keenum had a good season in his career. And I liked his play calling with the Giants albiet they lacked offensive fire power. 
 

At a minimum he isn’t an experiment. He’s not my  first choice but Id take him over Zampese 

 

 

 

 

Its just all boring old school retreads in a league driven by creativity and youthful concepts.

 

Most of the fan base is just ready to turn the page on everything. 

[KDawg]

Just now, woodpecker said:

Hey I’m excited about him as well, just trying to be realistic. Whether he’s picked in the first round or fifth, the odds are against any quarterback becoming a franchise QB one

While I understand you, I think this is because he was drafted in the fifth round that people put up defensive walls around themselves so they don’t have to admit they have hope.

 

And I get that.

Just now, Zim489 said:

Its just all boring old school retreads in a league driven by creativity and youthful concepts.

 

Most of the fan base is just ready to turn the page on everything. 

Old dogs can learn new tricks. But they need to show that before being hired.

[Zim489]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Old dogs can learn new tricks. But they need to show that before being hired.

See Andy Reid.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Its just all boring old school retreads in a league driven by creativity and youthful concepts.

 

Most of the fan base is just ready to turn the page on everything. 

 

57 yuck.  Maybe Kingsbury will take the job, he's been awesome.  

Edited January 14, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

57 yuck.  Maybe Kingsbury will take the job.  

Now that would actually add some potential excitement 

[KDawg]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

57 yuck.  Maybe Kingsbury will take the job.  

I heard on the Pat McAfee show that Kingsbury is loaded. And Arizona is paying him. And he has a ton of investments and is literally swimming in cash. I’m not sure that’s true, but if it is… I’m not sure he’s rushing to come back to do anything, let alone stress himself out in a possible lame duck year with a currently owned Dan Snyder organization that can’t bring in FA.

[woodpecker]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

While I understand you, I think this is because he was drafted in the fifth round that people put up defensive walls around themselves so they don’t have to admit they have hope.

 

Yeah man I totally agree with the point you’ve been making about the fifth round, and that he was once projected as a first rounder. Certainly a lot of people have reservations because of it. That’s not it for me though. It’s more just that I’ve been let down too many times by his team to get my hopes up. I’d be going into it with just as much caution if he were a first round pick.

[zCommander]

10 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

Sounds like us fans are getting what we want! I know we probably need to pump the brakes on our enthusiasm for Howell after one start, but I think I’m on board with all of you who are saying roll with him as QB1. It just makes sense… sure, chances are he will not pan out, but even then it will leave us in a great spot for the following year with the new owner firmly in place and a stacked roster. For once we will be in a position to attract top-of-the-line talent as needed at GM, coach, quarterback.

 

The coaches also have tape on him from pre-season as well. So more than one game in reality to look at to see some progression.

[CapsSkins]

Excellent news about Howell having every opportunity to start next year. 
 

LFG!

[Skinsinparadise]

 

26 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I heard on the Pat McAfee show that Kingsbury is loaded. And Arizona is paying him. And he has a ton of investments and is literally swimming in cash. I’m not sure that’s true, but if it is… I’m not sure he’s rushing to come back to do anything, let alone stress himself out in a possible lame duck year with a currently owned Dan Snyder organization that can’t bring in FA.

 

Sure.   I was being sarcastic.  I am not in the camp that younger is better.  I think it all depends.  I am in a profession with wins and losses and I love going against young campaign managers, mainly because they tend to be arrogant as heck, they think they know it all but often they don't.  Not saying young is bad.  Young can be good.    But i don't think its the be all and end all.

 

Everything being equal, I want a seasoned professional coordinator to help mold Howell versus experiment with someone -- Turner was an experiment, not looking for another roll of the dice like that.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/01/12/minnesota-vikings-offense-pat-shurmur-case-keenum

 

 

That’s not a knock against Keenum, but he is currently playing the best football of his career, at any level. He’s won 11 of 14 starts, more wins than in the rest of his NFL career combined. He’s completed 67.6% of his passes this year, second to only Drew Brees, and a full 13 percentage points higher than in his first season as a starter. He’s thrown 22 touchdowns to seven interceptions, a near identical ratio to Brees, whose Saints the Vikings will face at home in the divisional round this Sunday.

“The maturation of Case, I think in large part due to Pat,” says Vikings play-by-play announcer Paul Allen, “has been one of the most unique things I’ve seen in my 16 seasons calling games for this team.”

 

It’s a partnership that’s worked so well, there has been speculation it will continue on past this season in another NFL city, with Shurmur as a head coach and Keenum, a free agent this spring, following him. But they are focused on the here and now, in Minnesota, where they have plenty of business to finish. The Vikings have been known for their defense since they hired head coach Mike Zimmer in 2014, and this year is no exception; the defense ranks first in the league in scoring, allowing just 15.8 points per game. But in forging an identity on both offense and defense this season, the Vikings became the favorite in the NFC.

 

The identity was supposed to be a different one. Shurmur spent the offseason building an offense with Bradford, the 6' 4" pocket passer, in mind, while Teddy Bridgewater, the first-round pick who suffered a serious knee dislocation last summer, continued his rehab. When Bradford’s twice-repaired left knee flared up before the Week 2 game against Pittsburgh, Shurmur had to adjust. Keenum’s first start was shaky, the 26–9 loss to Pittsburgh in which he completed barely more than half of his passes, but that was not an indicator of what was to come.

 

“Nobody out there thought he was going to have success, especially after his game in Pittsburgh, but we’ve seen him in practice, we’ve seen him have success, we’ve seen him throw a hell of a ball on a consistent basis so for us,” says receiver Stefon Diggs. “We just had to continue to believe in him, and believe he could do it on a consistent basis, and in his next game, he showed out.”

 

...Shurmur’s best work has been in designing an offense that complements both the best defense in the NFL and his offensive players. In tailoring a scheme to Keenum’s strengths, he’s facilitated ways for him to get the ball to his playmakers. The Vikings use tactics like pre-snap motions and stack and switch releases, a Patriots staple in which receivers come off the line together, to define their routes and out-leverage defenders. As his targets come open, Keenum has been decisive in delivering the ball to Diggs and Adam Thielen, two of the better route-runners in the NFL.

 

“The best guys in the league play man-to-man, and when you put those guys in a bind as far as stacking and making them chase, it kind of puts the defense on alert,” Diggs says. “Because when you’ve got to a chase a guy all over the field, nobody wants to do that, then you’ve gotta worry about getting rubbed or any type of thing that’s going to throw a guy off. [The defender] is chasing, instead of just running straight the whole time.”

 

Shurmur is not one to reveal too much, so when he describes the offense as “doing what our players do well,” it sounds like a cliché. Except that simple concept is central to the Vikings’ success this year. Shurmur came up as a coach with the West Coast offense, but he’s blended concepts learned from working under Chip Kelly, his two years as a head coach in Cleveland, among other ideas. He gives Keenum input into the game plan, presenting him with three or four options for a given game situation, and asking for his opinion on which he likes best. Diggs says players are free to talk to Shurmur about plays that aren’t working, and he’ll either explain why it has to be done that way or work with the player to find a better way.

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[SoCalSkins]

2 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Excellent news about Howell having every opportunity to start next year. 
 

LFG!

If we can get decent play out of a 5th round pick qb and pump the remaining into other assets, it’s such a massive advantage and window for 3 years. 

[Skinsinparadise]

New York Giants head coach Pat Shurmur left the Minnesota Vikings offensive coordinator job to come lead Big Blue. However, he left no ill will in the head of his former boss Mike Zimmer, who was effusive in his praise for Shurmur, according to Paul Schwartz of the New York Post.

“Pat was, number one, he’s a great person, heck of a football coach,” Zimmer said. “He was always trying to be innovative and find a way to obviously help the quarterback and try to move the football. But I think the biggest thing with Pat, especially the last year he was with me, was it was important for him to figure out how to help the team win, and I think he always had that in his mind when we talked about what we had to do as a team and how we had to approach games and things like that. He did a great job for us here and we miss him.”

 

https://elitesportsny.com/2019/10/04/new-york-giants-news-mike-zimmer-praises-innovative-pat-shurmur/

 

In terms of playcalling, Shurmur has moved Keenum outside the pocket and utilized more play-action in 2017 than in any other season of the quarterback’s career. As a starter this season, 29 percent of Keenum’s pass attempts have come via play-action, compared to 22 percent from 2013 to '16. Benefiting from his innate ability to sense pressure, 15 percent of Keenum's pass attempts were made from outside the pocket in 2017, up 4 percent from his first four seasons in the league.

 

“I never get a play call that comes in where I’m like, ‘Golly, I don’t like this play,’” Keenum said. “Every play that comes in I like, I like the play. He does a great job of protecting the quarterback, keeping us in good situations and giving us a chance to be successful.”

The notion that Shurmur molds his system to his personnel and not the other way around is echoed throughout the Vikings' locker room. Building upon the strengths of the players he has at his disposal, particularly his quarterbacks, is how the offensive coordinator has been able to adapt to changes along the way and not miss a beat.

“No matter how many layers you have coaching the quarterback, you have to stay on the same page so the quarterback is hearing the same message,” Shurmur said. “They’ve done the things we’ve asked them to do, they’ve made plays, they’ve created, they get us in and out of runs, from run to pass and pass to run. They’ve functioned well, and it’s really helped us win games.”

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/267234/how-pat-shurmur-helped-bring-the-best-out-of-case-keenum-nick-foles

 

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[shemp nixon]

24 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

Sounds like us fans are getting what we want! I know we probably need to pump the brakes on our enthusiasm for Howell after one start, but I think I’m on board with all of you who are saying roll with him as QB1. It just makes sense… sure, chances are he will not pan out, but even then it will leave us in a great spot for the following year with the new owner firmly in place and a stacked roster. For once we will be in a position to attract top-of-the-line talent as needed at GM, coach, quarterback.

Pumping the brakes is not what we do here, brother.