The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[FootballZombie]

Man, if you can get Mac Jones off waivers its would be stupid not to. I don't think he'd get to that point tho.

I have no idea what he would cost in a trade...

 

I'm interested to see what other "unknown" QBs shake loose that can alter my calculus. Bound to be a few.

[Skinsinparadise]

To add to the pile of people thinking this roster is good and is ready to win now, Chris Sims hits some of the points, entertaining segment IMO

 

 

[KDawg]

42 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

To add to the pile of people thinking this roster is good and is ready to win now, Chris Sims hits some of the points, entertaining segment IMO

 

 

 

I think there are a lot of quality pieces in play. But I don't know if it's good and ready to win. I know you and I have been similar in thought on this but also not in agreement as to how close.

 

What we have: Runningbacks, wide receivers, defensive line, safeties, average corner play.

 

What we don't have: Offensive line (meaning basically all five of them), linebackers, secondary depth.

 

What remains to be seen: quarterback play, tight ends, high end CB play.

 

I think the primary factor holding this team back is the offensive line. We are in agreement there. But I think it's such a significant problem that it holds this team back from being "ready to win". And with our ownership issues that hill is a much harder climb. 

 

But I think this team is capable of having a very good season and a playoff run with even slightly improved OL play.

[Warhead36]

Pats arent trading Jones. Thats not how that franchise operates. Theyll hire BoB as OC to turn him around.

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I think there are a lot of quality pieces in play. But I don't know if it's good and ready to win. I know you and I have been similar in thought on this but also not in agreement as to how close.

 

What we have: Runningbacks, wide receivers, defensive line, safeties, average corner play.

 

What we don't have: Offensive line (meaning basically all five of them), linebackers, secondary depth.

 

What remains to be seen: quarterback play, tight ends, high end CB play.

 

I think the primary factor holding this team back is the offensive line. We are in agreement there. But I think it's such a significant problem that it holds this team back from being "ready to win". And with our ownership issues that hill is a much harder climb. 

 

But I think this team is capable of having a very good season and a playoff run with even slightly improved OL play.

Agreed. Were getting there but we badly mismanaged the OL and WJ3 being a bust set our secondary back big time.

[Koolblue13]

We went .500 in the best division in football and almost won the playoffs with terrible QB and Oline play.

 

We have a very good team that's ready to win.

 

QB, Oline, Pass rush specialist, secondary depth.

 

Howell and the draft can get us really really close. FA can put us over.

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We went .500 in the best division in football and almost won the playoffs with terrible QB and Oline play.

 

We have a very good team that's ready to win.

 

QB, Oline, Pass rush specialist, secondary depth.

 

Howell and the draft can get us really really close. FA can put us over.

Again, we have pieces all over the field. But team that’s ready to win and needing a full offensive line aren’t terms that should go together.

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Again, we have pieces all over the field. But team that’s ready to win and needing a full offensive line aren’t terms that should go together.

We don't need a full offensive line. That's ridiculous. We need two or three guys. Less if we figure out why they keep getting hurt. 

 

Again, a .500 team is a team that wins. We're just outside of the playoffs with some of the leagues worst QB play. That bad QB play also affects the Oline play.

[KDawg]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

We don't need a full offensive line. That's ridiculous. We need two or three guys. Less if we figure out why they keep getting hurt. 

 

Again, a .500 team is a team that wins. We're just outside of the playoffs with some of the leagues worst QB play. That bad QB play also affects the Oline play.

I disagree with your OL assessment so we are on different pages with where we are. But needing 3 guys is 60% of your starters. That is significant for a team without an owner.

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I disagree with your OL assessment so we are on different pages with where we are. But needing 3 guys is 60% of your starters. That is significant for a team without an owner.

We have 9 or 10 Olinemen on game day, not 5.

[HigSkin]

21 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We went .500 in the best division in football and almost won the playoffs with terrible QB and Oline play.

 

We have a very good team that's ready to win.

 

QB, Oline, Pass rush specialist, secondary depth.

 

Howell and the draft can get us really really close. FA can put us over.

 

I'm kinda with you here.  I think not being stable at center really messed with our entire line this year because its such an important part of play execution

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We have 9 or 10 Olinemen on game day, not 5.

Okay. But I said “60% of your starters” and my reference to needing a full offensive line meant the five starting positions, I thought that was something that was implied.

Edited January 14, 2023 by KDawg

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

I'm kinda with you here.  I think not being stable at center really messed with our entire line this year because its such an important part of play execution

Chase is a really important cog and Larson a great back up. Losing both crippled us. Then having older new guys at both guard spots, didn't help. 

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Okay. But I said “60% of your starters” and my reference to needing a full offensive line meant the five starting positions, I thought that was something that was implied.

Fair. Leno,Paul, chase, cosmi is 4/5s of a good starting line if they have depth behind them. Add a RT in the draft and a Guard in Fa. Draft a mid level C/G as well and we're in good shape.

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Chase is a really important cog and Larson a great back up. Losing both crippled us. Then having older new guys at both guard spots, didn't help. 

Fair. Leno,Paul, chase, cosmi is 4/5s of a good starting line if they have depth behind them. Add a RT in the draft and a Guard in Fa. Draft a mid level C/G as well and we're in good shape.

I don’t like Leno anywhere near as much as you (and likely the team), but I think he is quality depth. 
 

Roullier I love as a player. But he is consistently injured and can’t be relied upon. Him being healthy changes the equation a touch but… I’m not sure if we can rely on that at all.

 

Cosmi is not as good at his job as Roullier, but he’s young and he needed time to develop anyways. Concern with him is the same as Roullier. Health. 
 

Paul I like. And like Howell, it’s a small sample size. But I think he showed enough to enter the year as LG1.

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I think there are a lot of quality pieces in play. But I don't know if it's good and ready to win. I know you and I have been similar in thought on this but also not in agreement as to how close.

 

What we have: Runningbacks, wide receivers, defensive line, safeties, average corner play.

 

What we don't have: Offensive line (meaning basically all five of them), linebackers, secondary depth.

 

What remains to be seen: quarterback play, tight ends, high end CB play.

 

I think the primary factor holding this team back is the offensive line. We are in agreement there. But I think it's such a significant problem that it holds this team back from being "ready to win". And with our ownership issues that hill is a much harder climb. 

 

But I think this team is capable of having a very good season and a playoff run with even slightly improved OL play.

 

I think Brian Robinson will emerge even bigger next season for three reasons

 

A.  More time to recover from the gun shots

B.  He was more explosive in Alabama -- I know you liked him a lot, too and even a a hair more.  Our main difference is I liked Dameon Pierce more but we both pushed him in the mix when our third round pick came up.  For a dude his size he runs fast, has good hands, had 22 runs his last college season for more than 15 yards.  when Keim said he talked to an agent for an offensive coordinator and the agent told him the coordinator would be jazzed because of Robinson, it didn't sound crazy to me.

C. They wont use him I think as much as a battering ram.  A lot of times teams knew they were running the ball.  Tougher to get a high YPC that way.

 

I think Dotson is on the verge of being a star.  Best duo WR we got now since Monk-Clark.  So that's part of it too for me. I think Robinson and Dotson really adds 2 studs to that offense and I don't think we've seen their best yet.  

 

The defense is legit, finished #3 and that was without Chase.  Secondary has some nice pieces.  It was odd, seemed to come out of nowhere but good that Danny Johnson emerged at the end of the season.  They definitley can use another corner though.  Jamin Davis I think is going to keep getting better as other talented LBS often do.

 

I am big on fixing the O line, IMHO you are taking though to an extreme.  I don't think every spot needs fixing.  And I know they don't think that either.   Leno IMO is solid.  I agree with the PFF guy about Leno, he's decent, solid.  As he goes, people remember the sacks for all O lineman because it hurts to see it so it sticks in your mind more. 

 

But in 12 games, Leno didn't give up a sack, if I recall 13-14 games without a QB hit.  He is never hurt.  He's solid to me.  As to Chase Rouiller and Larsen sounds like they are banking on one of them to return heathy and will discard the other and add depth.  Both are good but they need to stay healthy.  I do think they likely swap either a guard or the center for a young player from this draft. I like Paul.  I like Schweitzer and Lucas as depth.   Cosmi is a wildcard because of health.  I am with Logan Paulsen on this, add one starter in the interior and one tackle and that should do it.  But they need to be good players not just guys.

 

They just went 500 with bad O line play and the worst QB tandem in the NFL or in the same ballpark as the Jets at QB.   They did it without Chase Young.  Without Robinson for the start and who by his own admission wasn't hitting his stride until the end of the season.  They ended up playing 10 of their 17 games versus playoff teams and with also 2 of the other 7 missing the playoffs by one game.

 

The reason why I lke to repeat Cooley's take in particular is the dude is so cynical about this roster typically.  Some here hate him for it over the years.  And he has no love for the franchise anymore.  Yet, he thinks even with this roster, status quo, with Daniel Jones its a SB threat.  Some crap on Logan Paulsen as a homer but if you listen to him he's far from it.  He thinks they are potentially 2 years from a SB roster, should be playoffs next season.  Heck a dude who covers the NFL and is a beat writer for SF, sees similarities between this roster and theirs, he thinks 1-2 seasons away.  Sims likes this roster, others do, too.   

 

I am not saying this is your take about it but reading some of the other takes who are more cynical.  The vibe I get is hey we still went 8-8 so why wouldn't be on the same hamster wheel and hey this is Washington we will never be that good.  I get that pessimism from that standpoint.  But I personally haven't been this hyped about their roster in a long time.  And its not like I always am sold -- not by a long stretch -- I crapped on the Alex Smith deal at the time because I didn't think that highly about the roster then and what a decent Qb would add to that.  I was one of the cynics this off season, wondering if this D line is overhyped.  So its not like a fall easily so to speak.  We can all end up wrong but I am betting now on optimism. 

[KDawg]

I’m betting on optimism, too. This team is going in the right direction. But it is pending a few really big changes. Ownership and OL.

 

I’m not on the same page as you guys (or our FO) as it pertains to Leno as a LT. I don’t think he’s great. But I do think if we improve 3 of the other spots he will look better and be serviceable. So 60% of our starters need an upgrade, in my opinion.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m betting on optimism, too. This team is going in the right direction. But it is pending a few really big changes. Ownership and OL.

 

I’m not on the same page as you guys (or our FO) as it pertains to Leno as a LT. I don’t think he’s great. But I do think if we improve 3 of the other spots he will look better and be serviceable. So 60% of our starters need an upgrade, in my opinion.

 

If they bring Schweitzer, Leno and one of the centers as depth, i think the depth is good.  We need a front line RT, not just a guy but someone good IMO.  Move Cosmi to RG have depth behind him.  And I'd go center in FA or the draft.   And draft another guard.   I am not that far off to your point as to starters, I think they can get by with 2 new ones but prefer 3. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m betting on optimism, too. This team is going in the right direction. But it is pending a few really big changes. Ownership and OL.

 

I’m not on the same page as you guys (or our FO) as it pertains to Leno as a LT. I don’t think he’s great. But I do think if we improve 3 of the other spots he will look better and be serviceable. So 60% of our starters need an upgrade, in my opinion.

I wish all of our Oline was as bad as Leno. 

 

He's a very good LT and a Captain. 

 

 

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I wish all of our Oline was as bad as Leno. 

 

He's a very good LT and a Captain. 

 

 

 

I agree that he is the best of our OL. I also agree that he is solid aside from a few reps a game. But those reps always seem to come in big moments.

 

But yes, if we improve our C/RG/RT situation I would feel better (but not sold) on Leno.

[Warhead36]

Leno is...fine. He's not a stud franchise LT type but you can win games with him. Just give him some help against the elite Edge guys. He ain't blockin them 1 on 1 like a Trent Williams type(thanks again Bruce).

[pray4surf]

All in on Howell.  Building the o-line is obviously a priority in this draft but my concern is RR reaching for a player because of our need at G and C. Sucks when you can't draft BPA but oh well.  

[samy316]

This is an interesting conversation, and this offseason will definitely be a big one for this team’s future going forward.  The logical thing to do this offseason is roll with Howell and draft/sign O-Line to improve that unit.  However, Rivera is essentially a lame duck coach with one year left to prove to the new owner that he deserves to stay as a HC.  A coach in his last year will be desperate, and try to make any move he can to guarantee himself a shot at the playoffs next season.  
 

I think Rivera is desperate, and since he has FO responsibilities along with being the HC, he’s going to swing for the fences to get a vet QB, because he feels like he has no better options at the moment.  He’s not going to pin his hopes on a 5th Round QB, who only played one game.  I think we’ll offer the moon to Derek Carr, and/or Tom Brady.  It’s desperation time for Rivera, and he wants to do whatever he can to get this team to the playoffs next year.  He’s not concerned about setting this team back if he’s not going to be here.  If he has to offer a big time haul for Carr, he’s going to do that.  If Carr is cut, I can see Rivera giving Carr a huge contract to sign here.  He has to pull all the stops to get that Vet QB.

Edited January 14, 2023 by samy316

[Skinsinparadise]

Don’t know how valid this is but caught Paulsen in Keim’s podcast who also thinks they run with Howell 

 

 

I am cool with that just give him a veteran backup 

[Zim489]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Don’t know how valid this is but caught Paulsen in Keim’s podcast who also thinks they run with Howell 

 

 

I am cool with that just give him a veteran backup 

It really is the best case scenario. 

 

Just punt on the season and make no moves that makes it harder for the next group to succeed. 

 

I wish they would give as blank of a slate as possible but thats not happening unfortunately. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I’m betting on optimism, too. This team is going in the right direction. But it is pending a few really big changes. Ownership and OL.

 

I’m not on the same page as you guys (or our FO) as it pertains to Leno as a LT. I don’t think he’s great. But I do think if we improve 3 of the other spots he will look better and be serviceable. So 60% of our starters need an upgrade, in my opinion.

You being the biggest Howell guy on the board Id think you’d be at peak homerism these days 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

You being the biggest Howell guy on the board Id think you’d be at peak homerism these days 

Leaning more that way. But we still have the biggest obstacle of every team in the League on our hands.