All things defense

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I mean they did win us the Arizona game almost single handily. And dominated the second half of the Denver game.

Even though, those are two bad teams - I expected more of this when it matters.

 

They haven’t even thought about doing that since.

[Redwards]

13 hours ago, MrJL said:

 

that's bull****.  If it was true teams with a "gamewrecker" on defense would never lose a game.  He can't teleport to the QB.  When there's open receivers in 1.5 seconds, the pressure is not getting there

Sorry you disagree.  No one is saying Young should be the single reason we lose or win a game.  That's crazy.  That ball wasn't getting out in 1.5 seconds.  Sorry.  Fields wasn't taking one step drops.  I watched the game and the ball wasn't getting out that fast.   And I never said that Young had a bad game.  I'm saying he doesn't show abasing good O lines.  And that's a fact.   But the door swings both ways on defense: a great D lineman causing consistent pressure and havoc makes an average secondary better.  And vice versa.   

 

How many more games are people going to be making excuses for our Defensive Ends?   Montez and Young are always "close".   You can't sit there and blame our DTs.  Those guys more often than not are legit.  I have no problem with them.  But you have the "close but not quite there" brothers in Young and Montez.   And both are First Rounders, one the overall #2 pick.   And they don't show up with anything even remotely approaching consistency against quality lines.  That's all on tape.  That's their history.  It's inarguable.  

 

As I said: Young and Montez both have the rest of the year and plenty of quality O lines to go against in order to prove they deserve to be feared.  They're playing with two studs in the middle.  Zero excuses.  I've watched too many great D ends in my 48 years playing with bad secondaries that still get home.  Does a bad secondary make things more difficult?  Of course.  But a great D line makes that bad secondary better.  

 

I repeat: no excuses.  The great ones don't need 'em.   Plenty of time for those boys to prove they're worth future investment.  We'll see.  

Edited October 9, 2023 by Redwards

[philibusters]

Chase Young is having a good season.  Nothing fantastic, but good.  He has a 72.1 PFF grade, 27 pressures and 3 sacks in 4  games (he missed the Arizona game)  6 pressures a game is solid.  Interesting his run defense has dipped a bit.  In his first three seasons he was a consistently good run defender.  This year, he has been meh in that department and its bringing down his grade.  He actually has a 82.7 pass rush grade a run defense grade in the low 50'S.

[Warhead36]

Young is not a Watt, Garrett, or Bosa, which is disappointing based on his draft status and the flashes he showed his rookie year, but he's certainly no bum. I'd say on a scale of 1-5(with 5 being those three I just mentioned)he's been about a 4, sometimes 4.5.

 

I do think we'll see him come up with a game changing/winning play at some point this season.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Warhead36]

I thought the whole point of drafting Forbes was because he was a better fit for our zone coverage stuff?

[KDawg]

How many times over the years do I need to keep repeating myself on what the biggest problem with the defense is? It’s the linebackers. 
 

If your backers stink, you’re in trouble. They tie the front to the secondary in every way. If they aren’t good your defense won’t be good. 
 

Linebackers don’t have to be your best players, though it helps if they’re close… they need to be at the very least good on average, though. 
 

Ivan Pace and Jamin Davis would make this defense an entirely different animal. Davis flashes, Pace is solid, both can run and both are aggressive now. Both are decent to good as pass rushers. 

 

Davis lacks some of the instinct and that’s where he will always be a little behind. But combine him with a guy like Pace and it’s an entirely different picture. The D isn’t anywhere near as predictable. Because they are capable blitzers (and we have to be willing to blitz) you free up the DL a little. We have a very major personnel issue at linebacker. We have for years. 
 

Every good pass rusher has a linebacker corps who is at the very least above the mean. 

[UK Skins]

I was watching Chase this game, he had that one incredible moment where he stopped the RB (I think it was) stone dead, but then there were many times where the tackle just ushered him past the QB and out of the play. He does it every game too.

[Daniel.redskins]

Just read an article that Washington has given up 16 plays for more than 25 yards, most in the NFL. Absolutely pathetic. I don't see it getting better until we have a true MLB to command the team. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

24 minutes ago, UK Skins said:

I was watching Chase this game, he had that one incredible moment where he stopped the RB (I think it was) stone dead, but then there were many times where the tackle just ushered him past the QB and out of the play. He does it every game too.

He has probably the best game of anybody on defense. 
 

Chase is playing well.

 

The secondary is trash. 

[MartinC]

36 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I thought the whole point of drafting Forbes was because he was a better fit for our zone coverage stuff?

 

Zone and some off man tbf. But match zone is what is primarily used in the NFL and that can be a bit of a transition and requires good coaching. I think we can ask questions of a coaching staff who have failed to get a 1st and 2nd round draft pick comfortable in their coverage scheme. Its likely neither see many if any defensive snaps against Atlanta.

5 minutes ago, Daniel.redskins said:

Just read an article that Washington has given up 16 plays for more than 25 yards, most in the NFL. Absolutely pathetic. I don't see it getting better until we have a true MLB to command the team. 

 

I dont see it getting better until we have a coaching staff who get much better production from a talented defensive roster. Not perfect by any means - big holes at linebacker - but there is plenty of talent on this D. Way too much to be giving up 32 points a game.

[Daniel.redskins]

19 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

I dont see it getting better until we have a coaching staff who get much better production from a talented defensive roster. Not perfect by any means - big holes at linebacker - but there is plenty of talent on this D. Way too much to be giving up 32 points a game.

I agree with this. Jamin Davis should blitzing every other play.  He is too strong and fast to just be standing in zone clueless like a deer in the headlights. 

[MartinC]

47 minutes ago, Daniel.redskins said:

I agree with this. Jamin Davis should blitzing every other play.  He is too strong and fast to just be standing in zone clueless like a deer in the headlights. 

 

Schematically we dont ask our backers to play downhill. We ask our D'line to attack and get upfield, backers have to read/react behind that attacking line - almost 2 gap responsibility. Its more demanding on the backers - its this adjustment which I think is partly responsible for Barton being slow to adjust to our system.

 

That doesn't mean there wont be specific calls in which backers do rush the QB on obvious passing downs.

[Wyvern]

I'm going to disagree about Jamin Davis being this great talent at linebacker.  Frankly, rushing the passer is about the only thing he does well.  He seems to be clueless in coverage, often stranded in space indecisively.  I've seen him miss tackles that that were makeable and were  his primary responsibility.  I don't see much determination from him, he often likes to lope to where other teammates are trying to bring an opponent down, because he assumes the tackle will be made (and sometimes isnt)

 

Bottom line:  he's at best a part-time player, and maybe just a role player, because he doesn't play hard enough to leverage his supposed speed.  

[KDawg]

22 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

I'm going to disagree about Jamin Davis being this great talent at linebacker.  Frankly, rushing the passer is about the only thing he does well.  He seems to be clueless in coverage, often stranded in space indecisively.  I've seen him miss tackles that that were makeable and were  his primary responsibility.  I don't see much determination from him, he often likes to lope to where other teammates are trying to bring an opponent down, because he assumes the tackle will be made (and sometimes isnt)

 

Bottom line:  he's at best a part-time player, and maybe just a role player, because he doesn't play hard enough to leverage his supposed speed.  

 

I think you're confusing talent and ability.

 

He has all the talent. He lacks the instincts, which is a big part of ability. He will never put his talent together completely to show it. 

 

I disagree that rushing the passer is all that he does well, though. He moves sideline to sideline really well. He's decent in coverage but that is exacerbated by a lack of pressure on the QB and other holes in the defense. He's by no means setting the world on fire. But he's a capable backer if paired with a better one. 

[skinzplay]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

I think you're confusing talent and ability.

 

He has all the talent. He lacks the instincts, which is a big part of ability. He will never put his talent together completely to show it. 

 

 

Our GM - we all know who that really is - chose him and forced him on this D. That, too, ain't lost on the ownership group.

[KDawg]

Just now, skinzplay said:

 

 

Our GM - we all know who that really is - chose him and forced him on this D. That, too, ain't lost on the ownership group.

Agreed.

[redskinss]

2 hours ago, philibusters said:

He actually has a 82.7 pass rush grade a run defense grade in the low 50'S.

Not surprising at all, Sacks get paid run defense gets the "jonathan hankins" treatment. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by redskinss

[actorguy1]

 

 

[method man]

12 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

 

 

Honestly, Forrest has kind of been a disappointment so far. He lacks the football IQ Kam has and is more of a box safety vs a deep half safety, which he has played more of. With Reaves out too, we will get to see what Quan is made of

[skinzplay]

Now, justify the Quan Martin pick, and show what he can do. I'm not necessarily quoting anybody, nor am I saying that Forrest has been BubbaTyer'd. Let's just see

[Voice_of_Reason]

Let's go through this defense and grade players on this scale:

 

A. Could play and start on any team.

B. Could play on any team, start on some teams

C. Good backup/rotational piece

D. Backup, but not very good

E. Has no idea what they are doing and could only play for Ron.

 

DE:

KJ Henry - E

Andre Jones - D

James Smith-Williams - C

Montez Sweat - A

Casey Toohill - C

Chase Young - A (for now, but having a good season)

 

DT: 

Jonathan Allen - A

Abdullah Anderson - C

Daron Payne - A

John Ridgeway - C

 

LB:

Jamin Davis - B/C

Cody Barton - B/C

Khaleke Hudson - D

David Mayo - D

 

Safety:

Percy Butler - E

Kamren Curl - B

Derrick Forrest - C

Jeremy Reaves - D (A for special teams, D for defense)

 

CB: 

Jartavious Martin - E (Rookie, but maybe will develop)

Emanual Forbes - E (Rookie, but maybe will develop)

Kendall Fuller - B

Christian Holmes - D

Danny Johnson - C

Benjamin St.-Juste - B

 

This defense is such an enigma.  There are players who you would think would be good to great at every level, but there are also players who are only in the NFL because Ron keeps them here and probably nobody else would.

 

The biggest indictment of them is they are NEVER as good as the sum of their parts. 

 

That's coaching.

 

Eff you Jack.  And Ron.  

 

And eff you Ron and Martin for picking DB's in the first 2 rounds of the draft that can't play in year 1.  

 

 

 

[KDawg]

23 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

 

 

 

So Percy Butler is starting?

 

Bet the over.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

So Percy Butler is starting?

 

Bet the over.

 

Our guy Drake London will have a career day

[Conn]

This is poor coaching and lack of buy-in. In year 4.