All things defense

[Thinking Skins]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

There's a reason that quality starting LBers don't hit the market often and it's because for an average starting LBer like Holcomb, it's affordable to keep them.

 

I'm totally down with an extension for Holcomb, along with drafting to replace him, but keeping him stops us from creating a hole and while he's not a world beater, he's a legit starter.

What I want at Lb more than almost anything else is speed. I want our guys to be able to recover quickly and hopefully just be explosive. And Holcomb is that when he's on. Not as much on coverage but at least he can keep up with guys. I wouldn't mind signing him because he probably isn't asking for too much

[Koolblue13]

9 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

What I want at Lb more than almost anything else is speed. I want our guys to be able to recover quickly and hopefully just be explosive. And Holcomb is that when he's on. Not as much on coverage but at least he can keep up with guys. I wouldn't mind signing him because he probably isn't asking for too much

Yeah, I'd love a freak athlete with full knowledge of the playbook to take the green dot, but what we have is Holcomb and I definitely don't want to lose him for nothing.

[bowhunter]

19 hours ago, TheShredder said:

 I don't have any need to share and I can easily keep my medical opinion to myself. That way I won't be so dangerous!

Please don't stop. Your input is a tremendous contribution to this board. I often look for it whenever an injury is being discussed. Sports medicine/orthopedics is a rapidly evolving discipline, What worked 3 years ago quickly becomes old hat. So you keeping us up to speed on newer techniques and rehab times is invaluable.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

37 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, I'd love a freak athlete with full knowledge of the playbook to take the green dot, but what we have is Holcomb and I definitely don't want to lose him for nothing.

I think this is a really big year for Holcomb.  He actually is VERY athletic, can run, and is strong. And the mullet adds to quickness and aerodynamics.  

 

 

He was a 5th round pick who is a good starter.  Can he call the defense? He needs to react a bit faster is the criticism I've heard from some of the reporters.  He needs to see something and just go.  Sometime he hesitates a bit.

 

Davis is an athletic freak.  He might be able to grow into the role of calling the defense.  Expecting him to do that in his rookie or second year when he played <10 games in college was silly.  Maybe in year 3 or 4 he develops into that.  Maybe not.  But he is a freak athlete.  

[Riggo'sRangers]

45 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think this is a really big year for Holcomb.  He actually is VERY athletic, can run, and is strong. And the mullet adds to quickness and aerodynamics.  

 

 

He was a 5th round pick who is a good starter.  Can he call the defense? He needs to react a bit faster is the criticism I've heard from some of the reporters.  He needs to see something and just go.  Sometime he hesitates a bit.

 

Davis is an athletic freak.  He might be able to grow into the role of calling the defense.  Expecting him to do that in his rookie or second year when he played <10 games in college was silly.  Maybe in year 3 or 4 he develops into that.  Maybe not.  But he is a freak athlete.  

I had to change my like to a laugh due to the mullet inclusion. The mullet and aerodynamics go hand-in-hand methinks. Nice breakdown 🤣

[TheShredder]

1 hour ago, bowhunter said:

Please don't stop. Your input is a tremendous contribution to this board. I often look for it whenever an injury is being discussed. Sports medicine/orthopedics is a rapidly evolving discipline, What worked 3 years ago quickly becomes old hat. So you keeping us up to speed on newer techniques and rehab times is invaluable.

 

I'm not offended by recent commentary, so all good right now. I was pointing to the reality that I have shut my opinions down in the past because someone's derogatory remarks about a medical opinion. There's a couple of professionals that gets paid for speculation and hypothetical opinions, MD & Esq.

 

Most people generally don't like that.

 

Thank you for being supportive.

 

[Peregrine]

So, people think the defense should be good because of all of the talent this season....and if it doesnt perform great Del Rio will be fired.  

 

Yet the team basically has 4 corners, only 3 LBers(Holcomb, a struggling draft pick from last season, an an UDFA guy), no Chase Young, lost Settle and Ionnidas.  This defense may very possibly stink.  Your secondary is 2 overpaid guys and 2 guys who have done nothing at corner, one good late round safety in Curl, no LBers of note, and relying on Allen, soon-to-be-gone Payne, and Sweat repeating 2020.  Theres 4 good players on defense and then a lot of question marks at best, so could be a long year for the D especially in coverage.

[Conn]

who here thinks the defense “should be good”? Seems most people here think it’s going to be bad. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

In what universe is anyone expecting the defense to be good? Particularly “because all of the talent”?

 

I’ve seen maybe two total people openly state they won’t be terrible, with everyone else very worried they are going to stink - primarily due to a lack of talent.

Edited August 31, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[TheShredder]

15 minutes ago, Conn said:

who here thinks the defense “should be good”? Seems most people here think it’s going to be bad. 

This is only true now. Go look back when I was pissed about this D and 3rd down not being addressed and everyone was saying how much 'talent' was on the roster! (I'm still pissed)

NOW, after camp, preseason, and everyone sees how bad they've practiced and played and it's 'this D sucks!'

Yup! They ignored everything and ran it back with less!

And, they still got Jackass Del Taco!

JDR is a Clown

[CommanderCarson]

Yeah, the hate for the D has gotten a little out of hand. It’s the opposite of last offseason, where they were a little too hyped coming off a year playing some bad QBs. Now they are far too dismissed imo.

 

Once Chase is back, over half the starters will be first rounders.

 

If Jamin takes a big step up, which it seemed like he did in pre season to me, we will have strong players at each level of our defense.

 

Some of you guys are acting like we have Keydrick Golston and Reed Doughtys out there starting, collectively it’s a pretty talented group. And they had better perform better than last year, like they started to during the win streak.

 

Get out of here acting like they have no talent, that’s preposterous to me. Definitely an overreaction to a couple of pre season games, one of which where Mahomes is making plays that just don’t seem possible. There was also the horrific pass interference calll against Jackson that would have gotten them off the field prior to the first touchdown.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, CommanderCarson said:

Yeah, the hate for the D has gotten a little out of hand. It’s the opposite of last offseason, where they were a little too hyped coming off a year playing some bad QBs. Now they are far too dismissed imo.

 

Once Chase is back, over half the starters will be first rounders.

 

If Jamin takes a big step up, which it seemed like he did in pre season to me, we will have strong players at each level of our defense.

 

Some of you guys are acting like we have Keydrick Golston and Reed Doughtys out there starting, collectively it’s a pretty talented group. And they had better perform better than last year, like they started to during the win streak.

 

Get out of here acting like they have no talent, that’s preposterous to me. Definitely an overreaction to a couple of pre season games, one of which where Mahomes is making plays that just don’t seem possible. There was also the horrific pass interference calll against Jackson that would have gotten them off the field prior to the first touchdown.

 

Talent doesn't equate to success.

 

Our DL is very talented but undisciplined and as a whole not living up to their needed productivity by draft position.

 

Our LB is average talent but shallow and developing. We are also missing a true "take charge" guy. Holcomb and Davis are, right now, adequate, though. I don't have as much of an issue with them.

 

Top two CBs are good, but WJ3 has something to prove after a pretty meh year.

 

St Juste should do well in the slot role but he's new to it.

 

Christian Holmes will take some time.

 

Our new pick ups: We'll see. There's young talent at CB.

 

Not a fan of McCain. I think Curl is a top 3 player on our D. Reaves/Butler/Forrest are tbd.

 

We have some talent, some okay and some development. But that's not what matters. It's the defense coming together that does. And that's where your "we have so many first rounders" comment loses luster.

[CommanderCarson]

12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Talent doesn't equate to success.

 

Our DL is very talented but undisciplined and as a whole not living up to their needed productivity by draft position.

 

Our LB is average talent but shallow and developing. We are also missing a true "take charge" guy. Holcomb and Davis are, right now, adequate, though. I don't have as much of an issue with them.

 

Top two CBs are good, but WJ3 has something to prove after a pretty meh year.

 

St Juste should do well in the slot role but he's new to it.

 

Christian Holmes will take some time.

 

Our new pick ups: We'll see. There's young talent at CB.

 

Not a fan of McCain. I think Curl is a top 3 player on our D. Reaves/Butler/Forrest are tbd.

 

We have some talent, some okay and some development. But that's not what matters. It's the defense coming together that does. And that's where your "we have so many first rounders" comment loses luster.

The two posts above mine make a direct insinuation there is a lack of talent on the D. Was pointing out I don’t think that is the case. 
 

It takes more than that for sure, but let’s not start acting like del rio has no one to work with. A lot of coordinators worth a damn would get top half of the league production out of this collection of players was my only point.

[Koolblue13]

I think the defense will be middle of the road at worst, but if the offense hits, the defense will be good.

[Warhead36]

17 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think the defense will be middle of the road at worst, but if the offense hits, the defense will be good.

That's my thinking as well. If the offense can build leads, the opposing offense has to play into what should be the strength of our defense and that's the Nickel look and/or 3 Safety look. And our pass rush should be able to take advantage.

[Koolblue13]

29 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

That's my thinking as well. If the offense can build leads, the opposing offense has to play into what should be the strength of our defense and that's the Nickel look and/or 3 Safety look. And our pass rush should be able to take advantage.

Not a lot of run first teams to worry about, except Philly who I don't think we'll be able to beat unless Hurts really does suck this year. Only way we beat them is to get on top early and then create turn overs.

[HigSkin]

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

51 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Not a lot of run first teams to worry about, except Philly who I don't think we'll be able to beat unless Hurts really does suck this year. Only way we beat them is to get on top early and then create turn overs.

Everything rests on Hurts.  As one of the Eagles beat reporters said, with the notable addition of Brown, they’re running back the entire offense from last year.  Are they going to be appreciably better offensively through the air?  We’ll see.  If yes, then they are in good shape.  If no, then they are not.  
 

The defense should be better.  But we also know in todays NFL good offense still beats good defense.  And I don’t think their defense is going to be elite.  
 

I think we’re going to split with them, unless the wheels come off entirely and Wentz stinks. Assuming Wentz is what he has been in 4 of the past 5 years, which is a top half of the league QB, somewhere around 12-17, I think they win one of the games.  But interestingly, it might be the second game, in Philly.  Because I still think it’s going to take the offense 4-5 games to really gel and figure out how to extend the field.  

[Koolblue13]

On 8/27/2022 at 3:06 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think this is a really big year for Holcomb.  He actually is VERY athletic, can run, and is strong. And the mullet adds to quickness and aerodynamics.  

 

 

He was a 5th round pick who is a good starter.  Can he call the defense? He needs to react a bit faster is the criticism I've heard from some of the reporters.  He needs to see something and just go.  Sometime he hesitates a bit.

 

Davis is an athletic freak.  He might be able to grow into the role of calling the defense.  Expecting him to do that in his rookie or second year when he played <10 games in college was silly.  Maybe in year 3 or 4 he develops into that.  Maybe not.  But he is a freak athlete.  

 

Until I see a level of commitment like this from Swolecomb, I don't think he's ready to be our MIKE.

[MrJL]

who's starting opposite Sweat?  Odaba, Toohill, JSW or Toney?

[mudhog]

On 8/31/2022 at 6:57 PM, Peregrine said:

So, people think the defense should be good because of all of the talent this season....and if it doesnt perform great Del Rio will be fired.  

 

Yet the team basically has 4 corners, only 3 LBers(Holcomb, a struggling draft pick from last season, an an UDFA guy), no Chase Young, lost Settle and Ionnidas.  This defense may very possibly stink.  Your secondary is 2 overpaid guys and 2 guys who have done nothing at corner, one good late round safety in Curl, no LBers of note, and relying on Allen, soon-to-be-gone Payne, and Sweat repeating 2020.  Theres 4 good players on defense and then a lot of question marks at best, so could be a long year for the D especially in coverage.

Damn brother, that's a dark assessment. One way of looking at it I guess. I never remember you being so forlorn.

[Voice_of_Reason]

10 hours ago, MrJL said:

who's starting opposite Sweat?  Odaba, Toohill, JSW or Toney?

I think what I've heard is it's JSW who's first in, possibly Toney on known passing situations, and all of them are going to rotate in on both sides.  

 

They might not really have a #1 guy across from Sweat.  You might see all of them play a snap or two and rotate until they figure out if one of them has a hot hand, and then ride that.  Ron has hinted at that but not come out and said it.

[Warhead36]

The starting secondary is pretty solid I think. The issue is the depth and all three of our starting CBs have a history of injury.

[skinny21]

36 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think what I've heard is it's JSW who's first in, possibly Toney on known passing situations, and all of them are going to rotate in on both sides.  

 

They might not really have a #1 guy across from Sweat.  You might see all of them play a snap or two and rotate until they figure out if one of them has a hot hand, and then ride that.  Ron has hinted at that but not come out and said it.

That’s pretty much the sense I get as well.  JSW getting the majority of snaps, Toney with situational snaps, and Toohill as the primary backup/rotational guy.  Of course I have no idea what to expect from Obada.

 

 

On the defense in general, I have no idea what to expect.  One small, but potentially underrated facet is the idea that we have three very athletic players (with very good to elite RAS scores) in the back 7 that have reportedly made a significant jump in their 2nd years.  Who knows if they pan out, but the higher ceiling is at least far preferable (IMO) to the physically limited guys of the past.  Factor in Butler and Holmes (2 more high RAS guys) and I’d say there’s some longer term potential with this group.

[Koolblue13]

https://markbullock.substack.com/p/is-darrick-forrest-ready-for-an-expanded?r=fd8sn&s=w&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

 

This time, the Panthers run a power scheme to their right with the left guard pulling to the right side of the line. Forrest rotates up to the line of scrimmage almost acting as an extra linebacker. As the ball is snapped, he quickly reads the pulling guard and is extremely aggressive in taking him on.