All things defense

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

For the first time in a while our offense is going to be humming and our defense is going to let us down consistently. Gonna be a tough season and likely this coaching staff’s final one.

 

Rivera is as safe as safe gets, imo.

 

It is likely the last season for Del Rio if it doesn't improve. And if Turner and Rivera butt heads a bit too much then him as well. But Rivera will be here. Make no mistake about it. 

[Rex Tomb]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Rivera is as safe as safe gets, imo.

 

It is likely the last season for Del Rio if it doesn't improve. And if Turner and Rivera butt heads a bit too much then him as well. But Rivera will be here. Make no mistake about it. 

Hearing that Turner and Rivera were having a heated exchange was not inspiring.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

9 hours ago, CommanderCarson said:

 

Okay so are we at point where majority of people believes pre season does mean something? I personally think it means jack

 

The final score doesn’t mean anything.  There’s no real game plan, so much of that doesn’t mean anything.

 

That said, when your defense looks exactly as bad as it did in seasons past against vanilla offensive schemes, that is absolutely cause for worry.

 

Defenses generally get out to a hotter start, but not ours.

Edited August 21, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Leonard Washington]

8 hours ago, oraphus said:

We have a defensive coach and ex LB and a D coordinator, also a LB... that cant actually draft a good LB or build a D worth a damn... our O is sub par, and we are down to trading for QB retreads that nobody wants and get similar results.... its like we are cursed with bad ownership and coaches... but hey, at least our culture is good now 

They have found good LBs in the past but it seems like the dudes they have aren’t disciplined…particularly on third down. The scheme isn’t good enough to compensate. 
 

It is too bad Collins couldn’t figure out he could have been a great “linebacker” in his hybrid role. Hopefully they have a secret weapon for game one. 

[Warhead36]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The final score doesn’t mean anything.  There’s no real game plan, so much of that doesn’t mean anything.

 

That said, when your defense looks exactly as bad as it did in seasons past against vanilla offensive schemes, that is absolutely cause for worry.

 

Defenses generally get out to a hotter start, but not ours.

So there are certain things that do carry over from preseason. You're right that the final score doesn't mean anything. A team of backups dominating another team of backups means nothing as well, because that situation will never happen in a regular season game.

 

The play of individuals playing with the starters can matter though, especially young unproven ones. A guy like Brian Robinson, he is legit. He just LOOKS the part. Whether the game matters or not, he looks like a real NFL player. On the flip, I don't worry about veterans with track records not producing much. McLaurin only having one catch through two preseason games doesn't mean anything, he'll be good to go. 

 

I think the offense will be okay. I doubt Turner is unleashing the real play book. We aren't like the Chiefs who have an established scheme and an MVP caliber QB that can just go out there and shred defenses even playing vanilla. Turner is going to have to scheme stuff together with our talent base, but the talent is there and when the bullets fly for real I'm confident they'll be much more productive. Not saying they'll be dominant, but no reason why they can't be a top 12 ish offense.

 

Now the defense, some of that can carry over. We'll probably blitz more and disguise coverages more in the regular season, but the fact that our starting DBs in vanilla concepts struggled to straight up 1 on 1 cover some of the Chiefs backup caliber receivers is a concern. It means the onus is gonna fall a lot more on Del Rio to scheme things up and I just don't think he's the creative type. Overall he's a fine D Coord, but he'll never really be that creative outside the box type thinker. Remember this is the same guy that took like what, 2-3 months to figure out Landon Collins was best suited for the LB/S hybrid role? 

 

Again, not worried about guys like Fuller or Curl. They didn't have their best days yesterday, but they're proven guys and they'll be good to go come regular season. But Holcomb and Davis were once again ghosts and we know LB is a weak link and they showed nothing to prove otherwise. DL looked fine yesterday and should be even better if/when Del Rio starts mixing in some blitzes, and of course the eventual return of Young. 

[Renegade7]

34 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

Hearing that Turner and Rivera were having a heated exchange was not inspiring.

 

Teams don't get passes for not having a game plan in preason because none of them do.

 

He was likely chewing him out for lack of execution despite going out of their way to get him a better QB.

 

I'm on the fence on Rivera basically being the second coming of Marvin Lewis for Cincy, but I can see him being given the chance to replace both his coordinators before he goes anywhere.  He has too much power right now to not be able to at least do that.

[Rex Tomb]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Teams don't get passes for not having a game plan in preason because none of them do.

 

He was likely chewing him out for lack of execution despite going out of their way to get him a better QB.

 

I'm on the fence on Rivera basically being the second coming of Marvin Lewis for Cincy, but I can see him being given the chance to replace both his coordinators before he goes anywhere.  He has too much power right now to not be able to at least do that.

And he’s more than willing to be the heat shield, so there’s that. 

[FLSkinz83]

48 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

Hearing that Turner and Rivera were having a heated exchange was not inspiring.

 

Where did you hear that? 

[Rex Tomb]

19 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

Where did you hear that? 

It was a twitter post from JP Finlay I believe 

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Rex Tomb said:

Hearing that Turner and Rivera were having a heated exchange was not inspiring.

I'm hoping it leads to some changes...RR asserting himself more needs to happen across the board. Might be time to make some statements by changing personnel in places? Players and staff....this **** needs to stop.

[kingdaddy]

6 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I'm hoping it leads to some changes...RR asserting himself more needs to happen across the board. Might be time to make some statements by changing personnel in places? Players and staff....this **** needs to stop.

Cowboys special teams with 2 returns for TD's last night, one on a kick and one on a punt return. Meanwhile, we have done squat with our return teams....our defense has generated no turnovers and our 1st team offense has sucked. Other teams are ready to start the season today while we are still spinning our wheels and barely able to field an offensive line with a competent TE....????

RR better get this figured out fast.

[CjSuAvE22]

Rivera is just an avg coach at best, you need innovation to win in todays league havent seen it since hes taken charge, its year 3 now and the team looks the same.

 

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Cowboys special teams with 2 returns for TD's last night, one on a kick and one on a punt return. Meanwhile, we have done squat with our return teams....our defense has generated no turnovers and our 1st team offense has sucked. Other teams are ready to start the season today while we are still spinning our wheels and barely able to field an offensive line with a competent TE....????

RR better get this figured out fast.

The Offensive Line has looked pretty good though so far? I mean we have quite a few guys out but they've mostly held up. Robinson has had roles to run through and Wentz has had time(the only sack he's taken was on him for holding the ball too long).

 

I can't blame anyone for TEs being out hurt. Injuries happen. But Rogers has looked not terrible at the very least.

[Captain James]

13 hours ago, KDawg said:

I think the key lies with 99. If he has a bounce back year coming off his injury and does what we all think he is capable of this defense is going to look a lot better. But with him even playing decently this defense is going to have very significant issues on third down 

My biggest fear is he comes back as a JAG

[Captain James]

10 hours ago, Drock_VB said:

It’s safe to say this organization has been trying to build a top tier defense.

 

Great job on that 😂

Right?

 

With all of the focus, energy, and resources spent on defense the last several years, they should be a dominant group. Sadly, they are not. With what I'm expecting to be a pretty decent offense this year, it's all going to be a hugely missed opportunity. 

[Hooper]

The more I watch, the more I think it's a scheme issue that they are too stubborn -- and now too late to the game -- to change. Instead of admitting that it's "we just have to execute and be disciplined." When you KEEP saying this... the problem is something else. 

[Alexa]

14 hours ago, KDawg said:

I think the key lies with 99. If he has a bounce back year coming off his injury and does what we all think he is capable of this defense is going to look a lot better. But with him even playing decently this defense is going to have very significant issues on third down 

They were bad w/ him last year. 

[paloosa]

Same problems different year. Preseason is a glimpse of how your team will perform at the start of the season. Vanilla offense and defense still shows how a team executes together. If you can't execute during that time what makes you think that during the season you are going to do it? They can make all the excuses of not having your 1st team starting _______ (fill in the black) but during the season you have injuries that occur so that guy might not be there and the other guy is. I know that they are trying to evaluate players but your #1's need to show some sort of continuity, that you can sustain drives, score points and hold other defenses on 3rd downs. We all see the potential and the talent on this team but I feel it is not utilized in the proper way due to poor technique, poor game planning, poor adjustments and poor coaching. Del Rio needs to show that he can still coach a defense and Scott Turner needs to do a better job of play calling otherwise this team will lose to the Jags and the Lions this year or barely beat them. I might be wrong but this has become a trend with this team for the last 3 years.

[Alexa]

10 hours ago, Leonard Washington said:

Why isn’t the offense dominating camp?!?!

they don't have a top QB. If we switched qb's w/ KC this would be a totally different team. It would be a top 5 offense. 

[KDawg]

15 minutes ago, Alexa said:

They were bad w/ him last year. 

I think you missed the phrase “bounce back year”

[No Nonsense]

56 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Rivera is just an avg coach at best, you need innovation to win in todays league havent seen it since hes taken charge, its year 3 now and the team looks the same.

 

Exactly. I don’t see how Rivera is “as safe as can be.” Any coach should be on the hot seat after potentially 3 losing seasons in a row. 

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, No Nonsense said:

Exactly. I don’t see how Rivera is “as safe as can be.” Any coach should be on the hot seat after potentially 3 losing seasons in a row. 

No offense… but if you don’t see how he could be safe then you’re blind. 
 

1) this franchise is under horrendous scrutiny and hemorrhaging fans, mostly due to off the field stuff but definitely in large part due to on the field stuff too. 
 

2) it’s difficult to reel in good coaches to a mediocre franchise, let alone one like this.

 

3) they reeled in Rivera by woo’ing him and telling him it’s different and using Gibbs to sell it. If they fire Rivera now, 3 years into this ****show it’s going to be even harder to get a new HC in here that’s worth anything. 
 

4) Snyder actually has a fairly long fuse as it pertains to firing coaches not named Schottenheimer. Spurrier ran away, Gruden was here five seasons, Zorn had to try the swinging gate twice in one game, Shanny had enough of the interference.  If you fire Rivera this soon in the franchise reimagining you are telling everyone that there is very little chance for success here.

 

Now, because I’m sure many of you think I’m saying Rivera is safe because I don’t want him to be fired (I don’t, for what it’s worth, it’s too early) I also very much dislike the idea that anyone is irreplaceable on a poor performing team that isn’t trending upward.

 

But this boils back to the Snyder effect. I don’t think firing Rivera is even a remote option until the general consensus is he has had enough chances. And I can tell you people around the league don’t think that is the case. 
 

No one wants to work for Snyder in this current environment. There is turmoil around every nook and cranny. This is where someone says, while reading this (if not responding) “Why does everyone always make it about Snyder?! Why do we always have to talk about him!”.

 

The reason is: Because he is a big reason why this franchise can’t get out of its own way.

 

Having said all of that: Changes need to happen and the defense should have been changed this past offseason. I’m not even entirely blaming Del Rio here, though I do dislike his general attack philosophy for this team. I just think the damage has been done here and a change has to happen to at least semi refresh hope. 
 

Rivera held on to him entirely too long and it could bite us again. The good news is that with Rivera as HC we may be able to get a solid DC candidate on board because Rivera is very well respected in the NFL. 
 

We’ll see how it plays… but I think anyone thinking Rivera is going to get fired is 1) not honest with themselves about our ability to find a new respected HC and 2) Not seeing the forest through the trees.

 

But… Snyder… so… who knows.

[ntotoro]

Other words, Rivera is safe because of optics, not performance.

[KDawg]

Just now, ntotoro said:

Other words, Rivera is safe because of optics, not performance.

Bingo.

 

Optics and feasibility 

Edited August 21, 2022 by KDawg

[No Nonsense]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

No offense… but if you don’t see how he could be safe then you’re blind. 
 

1) this franchise is under horrendous scrutiny and hemorrhaging fans, mostly due to off the field stuff but definitely in large part due to on the field stuff too. 
 

2) it’s difficult to reel in good coaches to a mediocre franchise, let alone one like this.

 

3) they reeled in Rivera by woo’ing him and telling him it’s different and using Gibbs to sell it. If they fire Rivera now, 3 years into this ****show it’s going to be even harder to get a new HC in here that’s worth anything. 
 

4) Snyder actually has a fairly long fuse as it pertains to firing coaches not named Schottenheimer. Spurrier ran away, Gruden was here five seasons, Zorn had to try the swinging gate twice in one game, Shanny had enough of the interference.  If you fire Rivera this soon in the franchise reimagining you are telling everyone that there is very little chance for success here.

 

Now, because I’m sure many of you think I’m saying Rivera is safe because I don’t want him to be fired (I don’t, for what it’s worth, it’s too early) I also very much dislike the idea that anyone is irreplaceable on a poor performing team that isn’t trending upward.

 

But this boils back to the Snyder effect. I don’t think firing Rivera is even a remote option until the general consensus is he has had enough chances. And I can tell you people around the league don’t think that is the case. 
 

No one wants to work for Snyder in this current environment. There is turmoil around every nook and cranny. This is where someone says, while reading this (if not responding) “Why does everyone always make it about Snyder?! Why do we always have to talk about him!”.

 

The reason is: Because he is a big reason why this franchise can’t get out of its own way.

 

Having said all of that: Changes need to happen and the defense should have been changed this past offseason. I’m not even entirely blaming Del Rio here, though I do dislike his general attack philosophy for this team. I just think the damage has been done here and a change has to happen to at least semi refresh hope. 
 

Rivera held on to him entirely too long and it could bite us again. The good news is that with Rivera as HC we may be able to get a solid DC candidate on board because Rivera is very well respected in the NFL. 
 

We’ll see how it plays… but I think anyone thinking Rivera is going to get fired is 1) not honest with themselves about our ability to find a new respected HC and 2) Not seeing the forest through the trees.

 

But… Snyder… so… who knows.

We’ll see if he survives 3 losing seasons. What has Rivera done previous to coming here? He reminds me of Jeff Fisher. A mediocre coach living off of one Super Bowl appearance many years ago that he loss. No use of delaying the inevitable. If they want to keep him in a management roll, fine. But if he has another losing season, he should not be untouchable. 
 

As for reeling in good coaches to mediocre franchises? I don’t buy that. There’s some luck involved, but you go out and find the next good, young offensive of coordinator and hire him and stop being lazy and going after a named brand coach.