The Official Roster Thread or similar ;)

[Chris 44]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Kyle has some mobility but to me the intrigue with Heinicke is his mobility is on another strata.  Heinicke isn't crazy fast but he has good speed.  But he's slippery.  Also, he can make off platform throws.  He actually stylistically reminds me on that front of Zach Wilson.  The difference though is Zach has a rocket of an arm and Heinicke doesn't.

 

To me the disclaimer about Heinicke until he proves otherwise is durability.  A player who thrives off of making off script plays and by extension invites contact but without the frame to take those hits.  

The other thing that strikes me about Heinike is his decision making process, how quickly he seems to process his receiving options.

[ODU AGGIE]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Kyle has some mobility but to me the intrigue with Heinicke is his mobility is on another strata.  Heinicke isn't crazy fast but he has good speed.  But he's slippery.  Also, he can make off platform throws.  He actually stylistically reminds me on that front of Zach Wilson.  The difference though is Zach has a rocket of an arm and Heinicke doesn't.

 

To me the disclaimer about Heinicke until he proves otherwise is durability.  A player who thrives off of making off script plays and by extension invites contact but without the frame to take those hits.  

This statement is not grounded in fact. Heinicke's injury as a Panther came while he was in the pocket, and the hit that took him down was flagged for roughing the passer. It had nothing to do with an off-script play. His only other game injury was in the Bucs game when he dove for the pylon, and that injury was not significant enough to take him out of the game. No injuries in college that caused him to miss a game as a four year starter and one significant injury as a pro. This durability question is being way overstated. 

[Silvernon]

6 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

This statement is not grounded in fact. Heinicke's injury as a Panther came while he was in the pocket, and the hit that took him down was flagged for roughing the passer. It had nothing to do with an off-script play. His only other game injury was in the Bucs game when he dove for the pylon, and that injury was not significant enough to take him out of the game. No injuries in college that caused him to miss a game as a four year starter and one significant injury as a pro. This durability question is being way overstated. 

But the coaches indicated that it was a concern, and they were glad that he was able to put on weight. 

 

Doesn't that prove that perception is fact here?

[Morneblade]

13 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

The original from waaaaay back, the gun nut? I believe he was banned about a decade ago. 

 

He was touched. I remember making a sig for him over a bet that he lost. He never used it. One of the angriest people I've run across.

 

[ODU AGGIE]

3 minutes ago, Silvernon said:

But the coaches indicated that it was a concern, and they were glad that he was able to put on weight. 

 

Doesn't that prove that perception is fact here?

I can agree it proves the perception and concern. However, my response was directed at the statement, "...making off script plays and by extension invites contact but without the frame to take those hits." I am simply pointing out that his only serious injury was not the result of an off-script play.

[mojo]

22 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

This statement is not grounded in fact. Heinicke's injury as a Panther came while he was in the pocket, and the hit that took him down was flagged for roughing the passer. It had nothing to do with an off-script play. His only other game injury was in the Bucs game when he dove for the pylon, and that injury was not significant enough to take him out of the game. No injuries in college that caused him to miss a game as a four year starter and one significant injury as a pro. This durability question is being way overstated. 

I was actually watching some Heinicke videos on YouTube the other day.  There is one from a pre season game for the Vikings and he led them on a  game winning drive in which he dove for the pylon on the last play to win the game, and was playing injured and grimacing the entire time.  It was Heinicke summed up in a 2 minute clip.

Dude definitely has a injury history.

 

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by mojo

[Skinsinparadise]

Listening to Finlay/Standig talk about the QB competition.  One point they are harping about it from what they watches was Fitz took ALL the reps with the first team in practice.  And went up against the first team defense on his snaps. 

 

1 hour ago, ODU AGGIE said:

This statement is not grounded in fact. Heinicke's injury as a Panther came while he was in the pocket, and the hit that took him down was flagged for roughing the passer. It had nothing to do with an off-script play. His only other game injury was in the Bucs game when he dove for the pylon, and that injury was not significant enough to take him out of the game. No injuries in college that caused him to miss a game as a four year starter and one significant injury as a pro. This durability question is being way overstated. 

 

I am talking about his style of play and dudes like that tend to get hurt especially with his kind of frame  I've talked about it as to other players (even non QBs) in the draft thread.  If you think the point is non grounded in fact.  Cool.  That's your take.  I am stating my concern.   

 

As for the team being concerned about Heinicke getting hurt -- that's a fact.  Beat guys have been saying in the off season as for what they hear when they asked their sources within the team.  But what made it a fact was Zampese flat out saying his top thing with Heinicke is "health".   That's a pretty direct statement.  If you think the point is overrated and durability concerns are overblown then I presume you must think the team is overstating it too.   Maybe you are right and the the team is wrong to have this concern.  I hope so.  Will find out. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Gurgeh]

5 minutes ago, mojo said:

I was actually watching some Heinicke videos on YouTube the other day.  There is one from a pre season game for the Vikings and he led them on a  game winning drive in which he dove for the pylon on the last play to win the game, and was playing injured and grimacing the entire time.  It was Heinicke summed up in a 2 minute clip.

Dude definitely has a injury history.

 

 

He had a concussion playing for the Vikings and "a strained right oblique muscle" which put him on injured reserve before they released him. He picked up another concussion on his debut for the Texans. He may only have had one major injury, but he does seem to pick up minor ones given how few pro games he's played.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, ILikeBilly said:

I never saw anything from Allen that made me think he was even a top 20 QB.  I thought he was an okay backup at best.  When Taylor started, I thought he was the best player on offense.  He was a threat and had to be accounted for on each play.  Is it sustainable?  I hope so.  Is he better than Allen?  Yes, by a lot, based on what we saw during games.

 

I dunno about the "yes, he's better than Allen by a lot" based on any measurable data.

 

I'd agree that TH probably could have more upside based upon his slipperiness and scrambling ability, but Allen was playing pretty well in 2020 before injury.

 

KA: 4 games, 71.4 QBR, 97.6 rating, 68.6% completion, 4 TD 1 INT 

TH: 2 games, 56.3 QBR, 90.3 rating, 61.1% completion, 1 TD 1 INT

Edited June 11, 2021 by mistertim

[Koolblue13]

Oh good, another QB thread.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Chris 44 said:

The other thing that strikes me about Heinike is his decision making process, how quickly he seems to process his receiving options.

 

He throws with anticipation but IMO he's not that unique on that front, most competent QBs do the same.  Fitz is the same way.  Don't get me wrong -- its a good quality to have.  But IMO the cool/special component to his play is his mobility/elusiveness and off script ability.  In those ways, as I mentioned he reminds me of Zach Wilson.   I said the exact same thing about Zach as for concerns about his durability based on how he plays.  I said the same thing about Kadrius Toney at WR among others.  😀

 

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He throws with anticipation but IMO he's not that unique on that front, most competent QBs do the same.  Fitz is the same way.  Don't get me wrong -- its a good quality to have.  But IMO the cool/special component to his play is his mobility/elusiveness and off script ability.  In those ways, as I mentioned he reminds me of Zach Wilson.   I said the exact same thing about Zach as for concerns about his durability based on how he plays.  I said the same thing about Kadrius Toney at WR among others.  😀

 

 

I think you’re selling the “throw with anticipation” thing short.  There are a lot of QBs who have to “see the guy open” and then throw.  They can’t anticipate.  They can’t lead the receiver open.  Typically these are your bottom end of the league starters and backups.  
 

But it’s kinda hard to do.  So I give him credit for it. 
 

If you look at 4 of the WFT 1st round picks in the last 20 years, nine of them really threw with anticipation, and all flames out:

Ramsey

Jason Campbell

Griffin

Haskins

 

So if Heineke is already ahead of those guys, eh, that’s at least a step in the right direction.  
 

I agree with your other points of what makes him more special.  I just want to give the anticipation thing it’s due...

[mistertim]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

There's something absolutely hilarious about Tress Way screaming into the camera.

[Skinsinparadise]

42 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think you’re selling the “throw with anticipation” thing short.  There are a lot of QBs who have to “see the guy open” and then throw.  They can’t anticipate.  They can’t lead the receiver open.  Typically these are your bottom end of the league starters and backups.  
 

But it’s kinda hard to do.  So I give him credit for it. 
 

If you look at 4 of the WFT 1st round picks in the last 20 years, nine of them really threw with anticipation, and all flames out:

Ramsey

Jason Campbell

Griffin

Haskins

 

So if Heineke is already ahead of those guys, eh, that’s at least a step in the right direction.  
 

I agree with your other points of what makes him more special.  I just want to give the anticipation thing it’s due...

 

You are close enough to agreeing with all of my points.  I didn't have that many. 😀

 

A.  I said competent QBs are good at throwing with anticipation 

 

B.  Having mobility and throwing off platform is more of a rare quality and Heinicke does it well. 

 

If there is a disagreement I guess it would be the word "competent" to define QBs who can throw with anticipation.   You here define them as QBs who aren't bottom rung starters.  Agree, for me, its just a different way of saying the same thing.  And if that is not clear then I'll redefine competent to "above average".  Yeah Haskins among others doesn't fit that definition of competent QB play.   Not to complicate the point but there are some below average QBs who throw with anticipation but they have other issues.

 

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

Milne looks 12

 

Chase looks freaking HUGE!

 

Is Mayo channeling the Boz?

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

You are close enough to agreeing with all of my points.  I didn't have that many. 😀

I was more emphasizing the point rather than disagreeing.

[mojo]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think you’re selling the “throw with anticipation” thing short.  There are a lot of QBs who have to “see the guy open” and then throw.  They can’t anticipate.  They can’t lead the receiver open.  Typically these are your bottom end of the league starters and backups.  
 

But it’s kinda hard to do.  So I give him credit for it. 
 

If you look at 4 of the WFT 1st round picks in the last 20 years, nine of them really threw with anticipation, and all flames out:

Ramsey

Jason Campbell

Griffin

Haskins

 

So if Heineke is already ahead of those guys, eh, that’s at least a step in the right direction.  
 

I agree with your other points of what makes him more special.  I just want to give the anticipation thing it’s due...

The throw to Sims for the TD against Tampa was one of the prettiest throws in the NFL last season. He released it 3 yards before Sims had even made his cut to the outside.  That’s something you can’t teach.

[Conn]

3 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

He was touched. I remember making a sig for him over a bet that he lost. He never used it. One of the angriest people I've run across.

 

Yeah thinking about him isn’t exactly a joyous trip down memory lane lol, that’s why I was wondering if that’s really who that poster was referring to. There may be a different, similarly named MSF who is more current here. The original that you’re talking about, I seem to remember eventually being perma-banned because his posts were so relentlessly dark and angry, as you said. He was a mess. Used to threaten to shoot himself and things like that. I do hope he found a better outlet for his emotions and figured himself out. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by ConnSKINS26

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Yeah thinking about him isn’t exactly a joyous trip down memory lane lol, that’s why I was wondering if that’s really who that poster was referring to. There may be a different, similarly named MSF who is more current here. The original that you’re talking about, I seem to remember eventually being perma-banned because his posts were so relentlessly dark and angry, as you said. He was a mess. Used to threaten to shoot himself and things like that. I do hope he found a better outlet for his emotions and figured himself out. 

 

IIRC there was a totally different Mass Skins Fan that came much later than the original, er, "unique" version from way way back.

[dyst]

Who was #50?

[Darrell Green Fan]

12 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Yeah thinking about him isn’t exactly a joyous trip down memory lane lol, that’s why I was wondering if that’s really who that poster was referring to. There may be a different, similarly named MSF who is more current here. The original that you’re talking about, I seem to remember eventually being perma-banned because his posts were so relentlessly dark and angry, as you said. He was a mess. Used to threaten to shoot himself and things like that. I do hope he found a better outlet for his emotions and figured himself out. 

 

I'm pretty sure I know that guy from another board from years ago.  I had reached out to the other, newer, version of MSF here but he said he wasn't the guy I knew.  The one I knew started an infamous thread where he said he had given up on his Red Sox and was converting to being a Yankee fan. This was when the Sox were down 0-3 and before they went on the playoff run that broke the curse.  If it's the same guy he took a lot of crap from posters there.  He once revealed to us, not sure why, that he had a skin condition that made him look like a freak (his words).  Strange dude. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Darrell Green Fan

[Skinsfan1311]

17 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I'm pretty sure I know that guy from another board from years ago.  I had reached out to the other, newer, version of MSF here but he said he wasn't the guy I knew.  The one I knew started an infamous thread where he said he had given up on his Red Sox and was converting to being a Yankee fan. This was when the Sox were down 0-3 and before they went on the playoff run that broke the curse.  If it's the same guy he took a lot of crap from posters there.  He once revealed to us, not sure why, that he had a skin condition that made him look like a freak (his words).  Strange dude. 

That's the one!

Some of his threads were dark, many bizarre, but most of them very entertaining.  He would argue with everybody.  

[XxSpearheadxX]

I heard Antonio Gibson actually cut some weight. If that's the case it was only body fat because he looks jacked

30 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

IIRC there was a totally different Mass Skins Fan that came much later than the original, er, "unique" version from way way back.

They aren't the same person? lol I took like a 6 year break from ES I remember that crazy old ****er he was so odd. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by XxSpearheadxX

[Rex Tomb]

18 minutes ago, Skinsfan1311 said:

That's the one!

Some of his threads were dark, many bizarre, but most of them very entertaining.  He would argue with everybody.  

I remember him... he was one of the most negative people I have ever seen. Every thread was about how bad we were and every disagreement was taken as a personal affront.

 

The one guy I really want more threads from is like is Pittman4Two. That guy is an absolute riot.