2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Voice_of_Reason]

PSA: go listen to Kiem’s podcast with Logan Paulsen.  It’s great. Football focused.  About the players.  Balanced.  None of this stupid media invented value and grade crap.

 

im on business travel but can summarize tonight if folks want me to.

 

Also, I posted a rant in the “reach” thread and took Thor Niestrom to task. I found another person I’m going to take to task; Kevin Sheehan’s producer Brendan.  Dude has no idea what he’s talking about.  Heard him on Standig’s podcast and came away dummer than when I started.  

[KDawg]

 

Posted this in the 23 thread but no one is there yet.

 

Was watching #60 LT Zion Nelson vs. Bama... He's pretty good btw...

 

Willie Anderson is tough to miss #31 for Bama...

 

But the guy who seems to stand out the most is #98 Phidarian Mathis. Interesting.

[mhd24]

Apparently this was the Cowboys' top 34:

 

https://theredzone.org/Blog-Description/EntryId/22714/Enhanced-photo-shows-these-might-have-been-the-top-34-players-on-the-Cowboys--draft-board

[Skinsinparadise]

But, but, but , but, Kiper and some others said he lands in the 20s so they were terrible for taking him 5-6 picks or so earlier. 

 

 

 

[KDawg]

33 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But, but, but , but, Kiper and some others said he lands in the 20s so they were terrible for taking him 5-6 picks or so earlier. 

 

 

 

 

Whether you believe in reaches or not, I don't see how you can call a guy taken at 16 vs. 23 a reach unless you have a pick at 16 and maybe 18?

 

But, as you know, you only get one first rounder a year... unless you trade for one. So that scenario is rare and unlikely and, for us, wasn't the case.

 

So I have a hard time figuring out why Dotson was a reach. 

[Forever A Redskin]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Whether you believe in reaches or not, I don't see how you can call a guy taken at 16 vs. 23 a reach unless you have a pick at 16 and maybe 18?

 

But, as you know, you only get one first rounder a year... unless you trade for one. So that scenario is rare and unlikely and, for us, wasn't the case.

 

So I have a hard time figuring out why Dotson was a reach. 

 

Calling Dotson a reach is so dumb. If you get too cute worried about fan perception of what a reach is and trade too far back and completely miss your guy, you played yourself. It's smart draft strategy if you love a player to trade a few spots ahead of where you have a feeling they will go to ensure you get your guy.

 

I believe they played it correctly due to the crazy run on receivers.

 

 

[mhd24]

21 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Whether you believe in reaches or not, I don't see how you can call a guy taken at 16 vs. 23 a reach unless you have a pick at 16 and maybe 18?

 

But, as you know, you only get one first rounder a year... unless you trade for one. So that scenario is rare and unlikely and, for us, wasn't the case.

 

So I have a hard time figuring out why Dotson was a reach. 

 

Yeah, I think GB was going to take him at 22.  Rodgers said GB had 6 1st round WRs.

[Forever A Redskin]

16 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

Yeah, I think GB was going to take him at 22.  Rodgers said GB had 6 1st round WRs.

 

Funnily enough, they might end up with the best of the draft when they traded up in the 2nd for Christian Watson. If the light bulb goes off for that kid, watch out

[Forever A Redskin]

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

45 minutes ago, KDawg said:

So I have a hard time figuring out why Dotson was a reach. 

Because it's the narrative.  It was clear it was going to be the narrative from the minute the pick was made.  The national guys started it, then the local guys continued it.

 

I haven't (and won't) listen to it but Sheehan apparently did multiple call segments about how the Commanders reached on picks now that the draft grades are out, and most are not good.

 

JP and the gang were "me" on Dotson, then crushed Mathis and Robinson.  Mitch went so far to say the Commanders put themselves into position to need Robinson ONLY for short yardage because they didn't keep Peyton Barber.  (This is a load of hooey for multiple reasons, not the least of which is Barber is a Free Agent and if they wanted him back, they could have signed him at any point.)  

 

That idiot Brendan guy was on with Standig and crushed every single pick, without anything other than "it's not good value."

 

The narrative has been set.  

 

The cycle of negativity continues.  

 

Keim's podcast with Paulsen is about the only "balanced" review of the players I've found.  Paulsen points out what he liked and didn't like about each guy, where they could fit, and where they need to develop.  

 

I don't know why narrative has been set the way it has been.  But anybody who doesn't think "the media" sets the narrative and leads the fans by the nose is not paying attention. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Because it's the narrative.  It was clear it was going to be the narrative from the minute the pick was made.  The national guys started it, then the local guys continued it.

 

I haven't (and won't) listen to it but Sheehan apparently did multiple call segments about how the Commanders reached on picks now that the draft grades are out, and most are not good.

 

JP and the gang were "me" on Dotson, then crushed Mathis and Robinson.  Mitch went so far to say the Commanders put themselves into position to need Robinson ONLY for short yardage because they didn't keep Peyton Barber.  (This is a load of hooey for multiple reasons, not the least of which is Barber is a Free Agent and if they wanted him back, they could have signed him at any point.)  

 

That idiot Brendan guy was on with Standig and crushed every single pick, without anything other than "it's not good value."

 

The narrative has been set.  

 

The cycle of negativity continues.  

 

Keim's podcast with Paulsen is about the only "balanced" review of the players I've found.  Paulsen points out what he liked and didn't like about each guy, where they could fit, and where they need to develop.  

 

I don't know why narrative has been set the way it has been.  But anybody who doesn't think "the media" sets the narrative and leads the fans by the nose is not paying attention. 

 

Of course they do. How else do so many people who don't follow any of these prospects here have an opinion on them?

 

People think there was a swing in opinion here because we were talking ourselves into the picks.

 

But...

 

I think it was because people actually WATCHED the guys we picked for themselves and realized that we actually had a pretty damn good draft all things considered. 

[Andre The Giant]

Pete Prisco's grade:

Washington Commanders: B+

Best Pick: The pick of quarterback Sam Howell in the fifth round will pay off in a big way. Carson Wentz is their guy for now, but Howell has the talent to become the starter. 

Worst Pick: I know they want to get tougher running the football, but I wouldn't have taken a back in the third round. Alabama running back Brian Robinson is a good player, but I would have went elsewhere with the pick. That's nitpicking since I like the player. 

The Skinny: The move to trade down and still land receiver Jahan Dotson was smart drafting. They needed a receiver who can help Wentz. Dotson will liven up the passing game. They added some other nice players, but Howell is the icing. Keep an eye on fifth-round tight end Cole Turner. It was a good draft. 

 

Prisco's 2022 NFL Draft grades for all 32 teams: Ravens earn A+, Chiefs and Jets get A's, Bears get worst mark - CBSSports.com

 

[KDawg]

Quote

Worst Pick: I know they want to get tougher running the football, but I wouldn't have taken a back in the third round. Alabama running back Brian Robinson is a good player, but I would have went elsewhere with the pick. That's nitpicking since I like the player. 

 

Hey, they got a good player but I didn't like the position so... Worst pick!!!

 

Every day I think more and more of getting my own YouTube channel and doing this. I may not ever be the best at it but I'll be better than this non sense. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I don't want to come off as too negative. I don't want to curb the enthusiasm of those who are optimistic and I fully understand all of this is guesswork and we won't know for several years how this draft will turn out.

 

But I see a team whose entire offseason reeks of desperation, starting with the Wentz trade and continuing through the draft.. The first pick should have been Hamilton IMO, instead they had a lot of reaches on upper classmen who they think will come in and contribute right away instead of taking the best players regardless of position and age. They do not appear interested in developing talent, Ron hears the clock ticking and is looking for quick fixes instead of building the roster for the long term.

 

Hamilton has a chance to be a star and I don't see that with any of the Commanders' picks. I also trust the Ravens front office over Washington.  They didn't draft for need, they were set at safety, but throughout the draft they took far better players by going BPA in most people's opinion than Washington did.  

[skinsfan93]

31 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Hey, they got a good player but I didn't like the position so... Worst pick!!!

 

Every day I think more and more of getting my own YouTube channel and doing this. I may not ever be the best at it but I'll be better than this non sense. 

Thats why Prisco and company are analysts and not football guys. He’s looking at the player rather than how that player fits into the system of the team. I think it’s fair to say that most on here like AG but also know he’s still learning to be a pure runner. Having a one/two punch is necessary considering JD is best suited as just the third down back. 

[seantaylor=god]

4 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I don't want to come off as too negative. I don't want to curb the enthusiasm of those who are optimistic and I fully understand all of this is guesswork and we won't know for several years how this draft will turn out.

 

But I see a team whose entire offseason reeks of desperation, starting with the Wentz trade and continuing through the draft.. The first pick should have been Hamilton IMO, instead they had a lot of reaches on upper classmen who they think will come in and contribute right away instead of taking the best players regardless of position and age. They do not appear interested in developing talent, Ron hears the clock ticking and is looking for quick fixes instead of building the roster for the long term.

 

Hamilton has a chance to be a star and I don't see that with any of the Commanders' picks. I also trust the Ravens front office over Washington.  They didn't draft for need, they were set at safety, but throughout the draft they took far better players by going BPA in most people's opinion than Washington did.  

This is 100% fair, and I don’t disagree.

 

But I also sort of see the thought process as, let’s get good before we can be great. I think this is about raising the overall roster positions from let’s say 6s or 7s to 8s. Once we have a baseline, then you can try to draft more boom or bust guys, (usually younger, usually more projection) because If they take time or fail you still have the 8/10 player.
 

It’s super conservative, and I’m not sure I feel the same way, but I think Rivera sees this as a KC situation with Andy Reid.

First, Reid built the team and had Alex Smith to be as competitive as possible in the short term while he continued to turn over the roster and build the team.

That was clearly the strategy last year with Fitz. I think it’s the same idea with Wentz, but with more upside based on the tools.

 

 

[skinsfan93]

4 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I don't want to come off as too negative. I don't want to curb the enthusiasm of those who are optimistic and I fully understand all of this is guesswork and we won't know for several years how this draft will turn out.

 

But I see a team whose entire offseason reeks of desperation, starting with the Wentz trade and continuing through the draft.. The first pick should have been Hamilton IMO, instead they had a lot of reaches on upper classmen who they think will come in and contribute right away instead of taking the best players regardless of position and age. They do not appear interested in developing talent, Ron hears the clock ticking and is looking for quick fixes instead of building the roster for the long term.

 

Hamilton has a chance to be a star and I don't see that with any of the Commanders' picks. I also trust the Ravens front office over Washington.  They didn't draft for need, they were set at safety, but throughout the draft they took far better players by going BPA in most people's opinion than Washington did.  

Sorry Newsome was a great GM and drafted a lot of talent especially on the defensive side but Decosta is still unproven.  How was the Ravens defense last year? Theres a reason they got rid of Martindale.
 

Without Lamar and his running ability, the team would have been awful since they have no real talent on offense besides a solid line and a stud tight end. Now they did have a lot of injuries but overall I don’t see how you can say their front office is better than ours. 

[Llevron]

40 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Hey, they got a good player but I didn't like the position so... Worst pick!!!

 

Every day I think more and more of getting my own YouTube channel and doing this. I may not ever be the best at it but I'll be better than this non sense. 

I would learn how to do the video editing to help you if you decide to. I have a powerhouse of a PC that perfect for it. Seriously you would be good at it and the editing would be the easy part when compared to most of the competition. (I think) 

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Because it's the narrative.  It was clear it was going to be the narrative from the minute the pick was made.  The national guys started it, then the local guys continued it.

 

I haven't (and won't) listen to it but Sheehan apparently did multiple call segments about how the Commanders reached on picks now that the draft grades are out, and most are not good.

 

JP and the gang were "me" on Dotson, then crushed Mathis and Robinson.  Mitch went so far to say the Commanders put themselves into position to need Robinson ONLY for short yardage because they didn't keep Peyton Barber.  (This is a load of hooey for multiple reasons, not the least of which is Barber is a Free Agent and if they wanted him back, they could have signed him at any point.)  

 

That idiot Brendan guy was on with Standig and crushed every single pick, without anything other than "it's not good value."

 

The narrative has been set.  

 

The cycle of negativity continues.  

 

Keim's podcast with Paulsen is about the only "balanced" review of the players I've found.  Paulsen points out what he liked and didn't like about each guy, where they could fit, and where they need to develop.  

 

I don't know why narrative has been set the way it has been.  But anybody who doesn't think "the media" sets the narrative and leads the fans by the nose is not paying attention. 

 

This is so true. I have been listening more since I was interested in the analysis and I'm tired of my music playlist. But its in the questions they ask or how they phrase the responses. Dude Thor said something like "I like the players, just not where they were taken" - I'm like liking the players is the Freaking Point. If we wait we may not get these players. Its so messed up because NBC4 posted a story Saturday night asking if we had a QB controversy. HogsHaven is asking if we need to cut Heinicke. Its always got to be a negative slant to it. Its just like when 980 was asking callers "how are they going to mess up the McLaurin contract?" Its just hate. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Every day I think more and more of getting my own YouTube channel and doing this. I may not ever be the best at it but I'll be better than this non sense. 

I'd watch.  

 

Actually, no I wouldn't.  

 

Also, there is really no way to be right.  Which is the thing I think we've all been screaming about.  

[Darrell Green Fan]

33 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

Sorry Newsome was a great GM and drafted a lot of talent especially on the defensive side but Decosta is still unproven.  How was the Ravens defense last year? Theres a reason they got rid of Martindale.
 

Without Lamar and his running ability, the team would have been awful since they have no real talent on offense besides a solid line and a stud tight end. Now they did have a lot of injuries but overall I don’t see how you can say their front office is better than ours. 

Well if DeCosta is unproven then what is RR and his group?  The best players on this team are still players that were here when he arrived.  We'll see in a few years which team has the better roster, I like my chances.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

42 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I don't want to come off as too negative. I don't want to curb the enthusiasm of those who are optimistic and I fully understand all of this is guesswork and we won't know for several years how this draft will turn out.

So then don't. 

 

 

42 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

But I see a team whose entire offseason reeks of desperation, starting with the Wentz trade and continuing through the draft.. The first pick should have been Hamilton IMO, instead they had a lot of reaches on upper classmen who they think will come in and contribute right away instead of taking the best players regardless of position and age. They do not appear interested in developing talent, Ron hears the clock ticking and is looking for quick fixes instead of building the roster for the long term.

So first of all, they WERE desperate for a QB.  And you know, THAT'S OK.  What is not ok is actually being desperate and not acknowledging it or doing anything about it.  Things worked out as badly as humanly possible with Haskins (RIP) in 2020, and so the overall 15th pick in the 2019 draft was off the roster within 2 years.  

 

They drafted at 19 in 2021, so they didn't have a lot of options.  They swung for Stafford and missed.  They could have traded up for Mac Jones, but I don't think THEY felt like that was really solving anything, and would have cost at least a 3rd, probably more, to move up to get him.  They could have traded up for Fields, but that would have taken a boatload to move up from 19 to 8 to get him.  

 

In 2022, they weren't getting Rodgers, Wilson or Carr.  Rodgers and Carr stayed put, whether Wilson wanted to come here or not, Seattle was going to trade him to the AFC.  So he wasn't an option.  They (and the rest of the NFL) clearly hated the QB class.  Ron stated they started evaluating the QB draft class early.  They knew by the combine there was nobody they wanted in the draft at the 11th pick.  

 

So, knowing this, here are your choices:  try to sign Mitch, Mariota, Dalton, Teddy (or I guess stick with TH) and draft a guy who you don't love and see what happens and almost certainly be in the same situation in 12 months OR pull the trigger for Wentz, who at least is a bona fide starter, with some upside.  They chose to take a shot on a legitimate starter instead of knowing the outcome. 

 

Sure they were desperate.  It really wasn't their fault they got into that situation, as a lot of it was because of the situation they inherited from the previous dufuses.  

 

They also REALLY think they have a good, playoff team if they had a QB.  They knew the minute Fitz went down there was basically no shot at the playoffs.  TH is an ok backup and spot starter, he can't start 16 games for you.  (I know, he started 15, played half of the opener and missed a game with COVID.  I get it.)

 

So, yeah, they are trying to shore up areas they believe they need some depth in, and they believe in their roster more than the fans do.  I don't know if they are right or not, but I've said it before:
 

The bet they are placing is with legitimate starting QB play, the entire team is going to look entirely different and be a contender in the NFC East.  Are they right?  Dunno, but luckily, they're going to play the season, so we will find out. 

 

42 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Hamilton has a chance to be a star and I don't see that with any of the Commanders' picks. I also trust the Ravens front office over Washington.  They didn't draft for need, they were set at safety, but throughout the draft they took far better players by going BPA in most people's opinion than Washington did.  

Hamilton also has a chance to be a bust if he truly lacks speed.  I trust the Raven's FO also.  But they are not infallible.  They have had some swings and misses also.  Every team does.  

 

That's actually not why I didn't want them to pick Hamilton.  This team needs to improve dramatically on offense, and particularly in the passing game because it's now an offensive league dominated by the passing game.  They got Wentz.  Now you have McLaurin, Dotson, Samuel (who looks to be healthy), Brown, Sims, Gibson, McKissic, Robinson in addition to the TEs to surround him.  That's a lot of speed, a lot of versatility.  It's not a bad group.

 

Now the focus switches to Scott Turner and Wentz.  They have to figure out how to make this a 25+ ppg offense.  That would put them in the top half of the league based on 2021 numbers.   That needs to be the floor for the offense, assuming Wentz doesn't get hurt.  27 ppg would be better.  

 

They don't need Hamilton.  They have enough players on defense to be a good defense if they just get their **** together.  They need offense.  I'm so sick and tired of trying to win games 17-15.  Get players and go score points.  It's not 1956 anymore. 

[duffy]

43 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

Sorry Newsome was a great GM and drafted a lot of talent especially on the defensive side but Decosta is still unproven.  How was the Ravens defense last year? Theres a reason they got rid of Martindale.
 

Without Lamar and his running ability, the team would have been awful since they have no real talent on offense besides a solid line and a stud tight end. Now they did have a lot of injuries but overall I don’t see how you can say their front office is better than ours. 

While Newsome is no longer the GM, he's actually still very involved in the draft process and present in their war room. EDC has loads of experience, but his first year as the lead guy was 2019. His QB was MVP and they made the playoffs. Hollywood was a good pickup, but no other real hits that year. 2020 was a  much more successful draft. The only problem they had was a league-leading number of guys hitting the IR including their entire RB room, where they absolutely have talent in Gus and JK. Lol I hope you're joking by comparing the Ravens front office to Washington's. It's not even close. I'll bet you could ask a million people familiar with the NFL and a large majority would include Baltimore amongst the best run franchises. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

49 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

Sorry Newsome was a great GM and drafted a lot of talent especially on the defensive side but Decosta is still unproven.  How was the Ravens defense last year? Theres a reason they got rid of Martindale.
 

Without Lamar and his running ability, the team would have been awful since they have no real talent on offense besides a solid line and a stud tight end. Now they did have a lot of injuries but overall I don’t see how you can say their front office is better than ours. 

Eh, I think they still get the benefit of the doubt, just in general, and also Harbaugh is still there and has a HUGE hand in everything.  

 

I'm not putting Ron on some pedestal.  I know what he is, at least currently.  And I would take that **** (male rooster) Harbaugh over him in a heartbeat, even though he is a gigantic ****.  

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, Forever A Redskin said:

 

Interesting interview thanks. Couple of observations, TH is done at QB. Plus Rivera said they really like a couple of the Alabama LB’s. Wonder if Harris would have been the pick in the third if he hadn’t been picked at 75. Assume Alabama LBs in 2023 may be high on the watch list.