The All things Tipping Thread

[Larry]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The surcharge is for the service.  A service being provided by people making a pittance for an hourly wage

A description that fits a whole lot of jobs. 
 

And the fact that they're grossly underpaid is a reason why they ought to get paid more, and include that pay in the stated price of the item. 

[CobraCommander]

7 minutes ago, Larry said:

Admiring the number of people simply declaring as a fact that all food includes a mandatory 20% surcharge. Just because. 
 

Is that true for all jobs?  I mean, when I go to the gas station and the price on the pump says $2.19, then am I some kind of deplorable if I don't voluntarily pay $2.60?  How about my grocery store?  Wal Mart?  
 

When did it become simply a publicly announced rule for a segment of the economy to tell the consumer that the price for something is $X, but the real price is $Y, and if you don't pay the upcharge then there's something wrong with you?

You are confusing tipping based off a good versus a service. If you pulled into a gas station that had full service as an option and you had a person run out to your car and pump your gas and check your engine oil level and wipe down your windshield then you would be tipping %20 based on that service. It's no different.

 

Tipped minimum wage in the US is $2.13 an hour. 

 

 

[tshile]

21 minutes ago, Larry said:

Admiring the number of people simply declaring as a fact that all food includes a mandatory 20% surcharge. Just because. 
 

Is that true for all jobs?  I mean, when I go to the gas station and the price on the pump says $2.19, then am I some kind of deplorable if I don't voluntarily pay $2.60?  How about my grocery store?  Wal Mart?  
 

When did it become simply a publicly announced rule for a segment of the economy to tell the consumer that the price for something is $X, but the real price is $Y, and if you don't pay the upcharge then there's something wrong with you?

 

one sec moving my post per @PCS request

k post:

I touched on this earlier but tipping is a very personal thing. There are many factors. I don’t think people should be judged by how they tip. There are obvious exceptions - some people suck. 
 

I had a family that came and sat at my bar table every Saturday afternoon. A woman her mother and 2 kids. They ordered the same thing every time. 
 

2 cokes with 2 extra glasses to split. 
1 kids ribs, 1 kids sirloin.  Extra plates to split. 
Heinz 57 and a1. 
They’d sit there for 2 hours. And leave a 15 cent tip. 
 

I had to tip out 3% of the sale. Because they didn’t even tip 1%, it effectively *cost me money* to wait on them because i still had to pay that 3% and that came out of my pocket. 
 

i refused to wait on them after the pattern was determined. Of course management had a problem with that. But I was good at my job and provided value. And even though they gave the generic company line about customers and my job and blah blah blah, they eventually let me get away with refusing them service. They would have someone else deal with them. I still lost my table for 2 hours but at least I didn’t start every Saturday shift in a rage. **** those people. 
 

that said your examples don’t apply because (at least where I live) restaurants do not pay minimum wage. When it was around 6$/hr here, I was being paid like 2.25$/hr. That doesn’t exist to my knowledge except on small farms. 
 

that’s why. It’s a stupid system, I disagree with it, but the gas station and grocer people are making at least minimum wage. Wait staff is not. Not even close. 
 

the tips are literally how they make their money.

 

to the point where people that don’t report their tips (to avoid taxes, which is super easy to get away with) have trouble getting car loans or even approved for apartments because their reported earnings don’t qualify them for even the basic of financial qualifications. 
 

which is why those of us that understood things would laugh at the ones that thought they were being clever by not reporting tips. They eventually got screwed for it somewhere. 
 

(the clever lifers would report enough to not have that problem but not any more to avoid additional taxes, but those were few and far between because most people clever enough dont chose to become lifers. Some absolutely do. And they usually have good reasons for it)

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, Larry said:

A description that fits a whole lot of jobs. 
 

And the fact that they're grossly underpaid is a reason why they ought to get paid more, and include that pay in the stated price of the item. 

There are certainly arguments against companies passing the buck to the consumers.  At the same time, and I could be wrong, I'd bet the company would typically pay less than a lot of folks in these jobs make via tips.  Kind of a catch 22.

[PCS]

There we go.  What started this discussion was a post about Pence and his tipping,(or lack thereof). @TryTheBeal! by the nature of the split and starting of this thread,you get credit for the start so you may want to edit the OP...or not.   Have fun.

 

 

[Ball Security]

You guys are wild.  When dining in, I tell the waitstaff that I put cash in the bill holder (I haven’t)  Then I ease my way on out haven’t paid a thing.  I don’t order take out.  I just walk into Chipotle, look for the big bag, grab it and go.

[PleaseBlitz]

Waited tables and tended bar in college.  Made a ton of money as I conceived of money at the time (like $100/day).  Plus the, er, female companionship that seemed to come with the job was pretty great.

 

Nowadays if I eat out, I do 20%, takeout and delivery get 15%.  None of this is difficult, nor optional.

 

Other question:  Do you tip your USPS, FedEx, and/or Amazon person?  We have in the past during Christmas, just like $50 for our USPS guy (who is always the same guy, and when we had an issue with our mailbox, he delivered our mail to our door for like a month and is always super when he sees my daughter).  Amazon is always different people, but during the initial state of the pandemic when we were on hardcore lockdown and had just had a baby, Amazon was literally keeping us alive, so we handed out several envelopes with $20 in them over the course of a few weeks. 

 

 

[Skinsfan1311]

33 minutes ago, tshile said:

I tip more than what most would consider “reasonable” for delivery and takeout. also when dining in. 
 

moreso during the pandemic. 
 

 

This is what we do. This is what we've always done.    I've never worked in the service industry, but I respect how hard these folks are working.

[Llevron]

I used to wait tables and bartend part time too. I always tip what I can when I go out, but trying to hold me to an arbitrary percentage cause you say so is just asinine to me. 
 

I don’t see how so many people can see it as mandatory yet none of you supported the socialist candidate for president that wanted to make it so these people got paid more. 
 

I can accept that I’m just that disconnected from reality if that’s what the problem is. But I really don’t get 1) why I have to tip that percentage or stay home and 2) why, with as many people who clearly view this as seriously as you do and how many people are in the service industry, we can’t do something about it outside of expecting the customer to fix it. 
 

I feel like this should be an employers problem. Not the customer. Why am I wrong here?(seriously asking) 
 

 

[skinsmarydu]

3 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

Fair warning - rant coming as this topic hits close to home - 

 

I totally agree!!  If not wait tables, at least some kind of service job like retail. I spent almost 13 yrs in the restaurant business and the treatment you get is absurd. So many people think because you are serving them food or the cashier at Target, or pumping gas (yes I am that old and did that job), they are free to speak to you in whatever manner they choose. And sorry to break it to some you, but NO! The customer is not always right. Don't get me wrong the vast majority of people are at least civil and mostly respectful. But there are many others that literally take their day out on people in the service industry. If they spent a year on the other side they might not be so quick to treat others so ****ty. 

 

Not directed at you - just jumping off here - As for tipping - if you don't want to tip then don't eat at sit down restaurants or use services that tipping is expected (valet, coat check, bell hop, taxi, etc). Tipping is part of the cost of eating out at sit down restaurants and using those services. If you can't afford it don't use it!  It you just don't like tipping - which is fair - then don't use the services. Pretty simple. Further, it's literally none of your business if they make a living wage beyond tipping - no it's really not! That is a lame excuse to be cheap and use other human beings for your own amusement. It's disgusting.

 

The only valid reason for not tipping is if you received ****ty service. Then I would ask yourself, did you help that ****ty service? Were you taking your day out on them and they as human beings responded? As someone who was in the restaurant business for 13 yrs (including being a bartender and server) and who has traveled for work literally all over the world, I have been in 1000s of tipping situations - on both sides of the service. I can only remember a handful of times where I actually received bad service. I tipped accordingly but let them and the manager know why. And no the kitchen being slow is not the servers fault. You get a manager for that and let them know you are not happy. A good manager will make it right. 

 

Standard tip at restaurants is 17 to 20% for decent to good service. I generall tip at 20% up to 30% if they did a great job to make up for the losers who use the services but refuse to tip properly. Ok, rant over. 🙂 

I could go on for days. 

I absolutely NEVER get bad service.  I look my server in the eye, profusely say please and thank you...and I ask for everything I need, all at one time...(you know, you've been out there with me to watch games).  We've always gotten awesome service because we know what we're doing, don't run our servers to death (ok, there was that one time with me & the Jager )...but I remember her name, Miranda. 

[Larry]

47 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

You are confusing tipping based off a good versus a service. If you pulled into a gas station that had full service as an option and you had a person run out to your car and pump your gas and check your engine oil level and wipe down your windshield then you would be tipping %20 based on that service. It's no different.

 

Tipped minimum wage in the US is $2.13 an hour. 

 

There are very few jobs that don't involve a service.  (Although, granted, in a lot of places now days, It's the absolute minimum service.)  

 

Is an oil change $79?  Or $79 + 20%?  

[redskinss]

I pretty much always tip 20 percent no matter what, from time to time the service is so good ill tip 25 percent or so and if its bad somewhere around 17 percent but I've never really gotten service that was so bad it wasn't worthy of a tip.

Sure sometimes things don't come quickly or the food or draft beer isn't great but there's almost always a readily apparent reason as to why and I usually don't hold that against the server.

I will say this, I dont like the percentage system. 

I hate how when you go to a very fancy restaurant with a large party you're expected to leave a 150 dollar tip for an hour of someone's services where as when you go to Applebee's or some cheap chain restaurant the same size party and effort put forth is only worthy of a 50 dollar tip, it never made sense to me.

Or worse yet go the breakfast alone and get a 7 dollar bill, I'm not leaving a buck and a half tip and considering that reasonable, when I do that I always leave a 30 to 40 percent tip.

But beyond that I agree, if you can't afford to tip don't eat in restaurants. 

[CobraCommander]

20 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I used to wait tables and bartend part time too. I always tip what I can when I go out, but trying to hold me to an arbitrary percentage cause you say so is just asinine to me. 
 

I don’t see how so many people can see it as mandatory yet none of you supported the socialist candidate for president that wanted to make it so these people got paid more. 
 

I can accept that I’m just that disconnected from reality if that’s what the problem is. But I really don’t get 1) why I have to tip that percentage or stay home and 2) why, with as many people who clearly view this as seriously as you do and how many people are in the service industry, we can’t do something about it outside of expecting the customer to fix it. 
 

I feel like this should be an employers problem. Not the customer. Why am I wrong here?(seriously asking) 
 

 

I don't think you are necessarily wrong but there are so many factors at play here it's hard to just say something should be different and changed overnight. We should be using the metric system but we don't. We should have universal healthcare but we don't. We shouldn't have people starving in the streets but we do.

 

Tipped wage employees is so ingrained into our society now it's hard to go back. Danny Meyer tried it in 2016 and lost 40% of his servers/bartenders because they knew they would be making a lot less. He had to reverse course on this during the pandemic just to get servers to come back and work for him. 

 

At this point it probably isn't necessary to pass the buck onto you. Restaurants could just charge 20% more on every item and pay their servers accordingly but you'd probably have a harder time employing them.

[Dan T.]

50 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I used to wait tables and bartend part time too. I always tip what I can when I go out, but trying to hold me to an arbitrary percentage cause you say so is just asinine to me. 
 

I don’t see how so many people can see it as mandatory yet none of you supported the socialist candidate for president that wanted to make it so these people got paid more. 
 

I can accept that I’m just that disconnected from reality if that’s what the problem is. But I really don’t get 1) why I have to tip that percentage or stay home and 2) why, with as many people who clearly view this as seriously as you do and how many people are in the service industry, we can’t do something about it outside of expecting the customer to fix it. 
 

I feel like this should be an employers problem. Not the customer. Why am I wrong here?(seriously asking) 
 

 

 

You see talk on occasion about trying to change the restaurant tipping system in the U.S., whether legislatively or by industry impetus.    I would be fine with that. And in fact there are a very few restaurants that have taken it upon themselves to do away with tipping, and have raised menu prices accordingly.

 

But until that change happens, when a diner goes into a sit-down restaurant, he or she enters into a social contract.  To not tip when service is rendered is violating that social contract and is cheating the person who waited on you.  That is why I suggest that if you don't want to tip, don't eat at a sit-down restaurant. 

 

It's kind of like not wearing a mask in a store during a pandemic.  You can get away with it, but you're being a dick for doing so.

 

 

[CobraCommander]

3 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

There are very few jobs that don't involve a service.  (Although, granted, in a lot of places now days, It's the absolute minimum service.)  

 

Is an oil change $79?  Or $79 + 20%?  

Gas service attendants were more like servers and If i had to guess were making tipped minimum wage. Your mechanic, the guy doing the oil change, charges you labor by the hour. 

[China]

[Dan T.]

4 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

There are very few jobs that don't involve a service.  (Although, granted, in a lot of places now days, It's the absolute minimum service.)  

 

Is an oil change $79?  Or $79 + 20%?  

 

Does the mechanic performing the oil change get paid 1/5 of minimum wage?  I'm guessing not.

[Larry]

Just now, Dan T. said:

 

Does the mechanic performing the oil change get paid 1/5 of minimum wage?  I'm guessing not.

 

So, if Jiffy Lube were to cut their employee's pay by 3/4, then you would be morally obligated to pay more than the stated price?  

 

[tshile]

33 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I don’t see how so many people can see it as mandatory yet none of you supported the socialist candidate for president that wanted to make it so these people got paid more. 

I generally agree with your post, and I think the system is stupid. 
 

but on this point - the socialist platform is about more than restaurant workers. So... it’s a little more complicated than that. Specifically restaurants are different than minimum wage in general. In Virginia small farm assistants and wait staff are the only people that don’t get paid minimum wage. So having a problem with this doesn’t conflict with not joining the “living wage” crowd. 
 

in general I’m for changing the system so that the employers are paying their employees adequate wages. 
 

europe doesn’t tip. It feels weird because it’s not what I’m used to but once you get over that it’s a better system in my opinion. 

11 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

There are very few jobs that don't involve a service.  (Although, granted, in a lot of places now days, It's the absolute minimum service.)  

 

Is an oil change $79?  Or $79 + 20%?  

Is the person doing the oil change making at least minimum wage?

[Dan T.]

1 minute ago, Larry said:

 

So, if Jiffy Lube were to cut their employee's pay by 3/4, then you would be morally obligated to pay more than the stated price?  

 

 

You're making an obtuse argument, Larry.  It's unbecoming.

 

There's been a convention in place for more than a hundred years in the U.S. regarding service and tipping at restaurants.  If you want to rail against it, be my guest.  But dumb what-ifs don't help drive home your point.

[CobraCommander]

6 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

 

Does the mechanic performing the oil change get paid 1/5 of minimum wage?  I'm guessing not.

No. Mechanics do not make tipped minimum wage. You would not be expected to tip a mechanic changing your oil. 

 

5 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

So, if Jiffy Lube were to cut their employee's pay by 3/4, then you would be morally obligated to pay more than the stated price?  

 

Are you being purposefully obtuse to try and make a point? It's kind of silly at this point. You understand full well why it's expected to tip servers, you just don't like it. Get over it man. 

 

https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips

 

Go ahead and read up on some of the laws and facts. My feeling here is that you are just arguing things for the sake of argument.

[tshile]

5 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

So, if Jiffy Lube were to cut their employee's pay by 3/4, then you would be morally obligated to pay more than the stated price?  

 

No. I would take my business elsewhere. 
 

I also am fine changing my own oil. And doing most other basic maintenance myself. 
 

and I think this idea that any random service industry could switch and comparing it to a service that’s been this way for a long time is silly. 
 

if restaurants stop the tipping cycle their food will become more expensive. If others star doing it their service/good should become less expensive. 
 

I feel morally obligated to tip wait staff because that’s the understood obligation or going out to eat in our culture. 
 

and that obligation does impact my decision to eat out. And if other industries did it it would likewise affect my decision to use their services. 
 

I don’t think making that switch is easy nor cut and dry, and I think there’s real downside risk.

[Llevron]

8 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

I don't think you are necessarily wrong but there are so many factors at play here it's hard to just say something should be different and changed overnight. We should be using the metric system but we don't. We should have universal healthcare but we don't. We shouldn't have people starving in the streets but we do.

 

Tipped wage employees is so ingrained into our society now it's hard to go back. Danny Meyer tried it in 2016 and lost 40% of his servers/bartenders because they knew they would be making a lot less. He had to reverse course on this during the pandemic just to get servers to come back and work for him. 

 

At this point it probably isn't necessary to pass the buck onto you. Restaurants could just charge 20% more on every item and pay their servers accordingly but you'd probably have a harder time employing them.

I do understand it’s hard to change the way things are. I really do. And saying things like “well you have to try!!” Doesn’t really put dinner on anyone’s table. 
 

So what, we are forced to play the game in the system we are in until.....? When? And if I want to enjoy a night out it’s either play by these arbitrary rules or stay home? I’m not sure that fair to be honest. At some point we need to come to terms with the bull**** we live with as Americans and actually do something about it. If we keep pushing the onus onto the little guy like me cause that’s the way it is, nothing is going to change. Y’all are coming after the wrong guy. 

12 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

But until that changes happens, when a diner goes into a sit-down restaurant, he or she enters into a social contract.  

 

Please. The social contract is 20% cause why and since when? 

 

12 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

It's kind of like not wearing a mask in a store during a pandemic.  You can get away with it, but you're being a dick for doing so.

Again, calling me a dick cause I don’t want to pay your arbitrary tax isn’t going to help these people make a living wage, which is what I assume all this passion of yours is about, no? You could do something 

[Llevron]

13 minutes ago, tshile said:

but on this point - the socialist platform is about more than restaurant workers. So... it’s a little more complicated than that. Specifically restaurants are different than minimum wage in general. In Virginia small farm assistants and wait staff are the only people that don’t get paid minimum wage. So having a problem with this doesn’t conflict with not joining the “living wage” crowd. 

True - I just don’t see why we don’t put energy into make sure these folks get paid a fair amount. I’m fine with the tax/tip being in the menu. So I know if I’m going to ihop that stack of pancakes is 7 bucks and not 5. Or whatever they come up with. I’m not cool with a social contract I never see or actually agree to. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Picturing Llevron handing the Domino’s driver a pamphlet on socialism instead of a fiver.

 

Re: Europe.  As @tshilesaid, no tipping in a Europe and it is a little weird at first and not at all unpleasant, BUT...you better prepare yourself for really lousy, really slow service.  And there’s not a damn thing you can do about it.