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The All things Tipping Thread


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On 12/31/2020 at 2:46 PM, skinsmarydu said:

I tabulated for a table ONCE.  She said, "I would have left you more if you hadn't done that." 

Me: Nothing stopped you. 

 

Table stfu. 

 

But I have absolutely NEVER done it again.  If I do my best for every single guest,...like I said...I get mine.  I have a strange passion for it, I know it may be weird...but if I need these people on my side, they'll always be there.  It's more of a community thing, we all help each other.

 

Edit, add:  some tips are waaaaaayyyy bigger than money.

We had to learn to watch out for our international colleagues when they came to the US because tipping wasn't a norm where they lived. They'd come, take people at HQ out for lunch and pick up the tab because they were on their expense account. But they'd tip 10% thinking that was a great tip. So we had to be sly, let the server know ahead of time that we would take care of them or do it very discreetly as  to not insult our paying colleague. One time I think our bill was in the hundreds and they left like $10. We made it right though.

 

We've done the opposite and go to Europe and the server loses their mind (positively) because we left a 20% tip. You know you're not supposed to, but it's such a hard habit to break.

Before Covid, we traveled regularly for work and I never got a clear answer on the tipping in europe. Zero? Round to the next whole number? Leave any change? 10%?

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1 hour ago, skinsmarydu said:

I've been a server/bartender for almost 40 years.  Step back. 

 

What does working for almost 40yrs have anything to do with you being a customer with having bad service happen to you, huh?

 

We have gotten bad service lots of times. 

 

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

And no, I do not consider small mistakes or errors bad service. I consider it a small mistake from another human being that is trying the best they can. When it's systemic or when they are rude, that is when it becomes bad service. Maybe trying to be a little bit more considerate and understanding and I bet your experiences will be much better. People tend to give what they get and vice versa.  

 

This is a real story.  I want to know your opinion:

 

One day I was at Red Lobster in 2018 eating by myself due to that my husband was working that Saturday for lunch time.  The service wasn’t that great throughout my dining experience.  I ordered when greeted since I get the same food every single time I have dined there.  She also didn’t come prepared I had to ask that if she could write my order down since I had a lot of modifications, so right there I knew I was going to get lazy service simply because servers should have a pen and pad on them that I shouldn’t have had to wait for her to get a pen and paper.  My waitress brought my soft drink out with the side salad that accompanied my entrée along with biscuits.  My drink should have been out first.   That was just lazy on her part right there to not make a separate trip to bring my drink first since a drink comes before food always. She just wanted to be lazy and make me wait longer for something to drink.  Just because I ordered my entrée when greeted doesn’t mean I should have to wait all the time it takes for her to make my side salad(at Red Lobster, the servers make the side salads the manager told me so). So at one point in my service, I knew something tasted off in my refill of dr. pepper and it looked off from the clear glass that my dr. pepper was light that she should have noticed the syrup was out, but she didn’t. 

 

So my main thing that happened was that at the end after I paid with my credit card.  My waitress gave me my itemized receipt back and the merchant copy only, not the customer copy of the credit card receipt back.  I didn’t fill anything out since I saw it pretty much right away, but not too right away that she had already left at another table.  Since it wasn’t like 8p.m. at night on a Friday night, that this was between 11a.m.-12p.m. on a Saturday, I was able to get her attention within a minute of leaving my table.  If I would have had been where my waitress was taking a large party’s order, I would have been sitting for a while. So I ask nicely to get the customer copy back. Rather than being a smart waitress to just apologize that she accidentally grabbed 2 pieces of paper instead of 3 as I thought this was(I thought this was an honest mistake), she thought I would feel sorry for servers in general so she went ahead and told me the TRUTH about how selfish she is.  She told me she leaves the customer copy of the credit card receipt by the computer and if the customer asks for it, she will go back to get it due to that some customers will take the merchant copy home.  I was SOOOOOOO HURT by that I said “So you did this intentionally?” That’s when she saw how it bothered me that she made up a story by lying to me after that saying “Oh I didn’t do it for you” and “It didn’t print.” I told her that this is illegal she can’t keep MY copy as a customer and then she made me wait longer to leave which soooooo mean.  So I told her about a highlighter might help and she claimed they had none.  I told the manager about it and he assured me she couldn’t do that.  What hurt me even more is that when he came out to me when I asked for a manager over this, he said it wasn’t something done in “Malice”, but it was in that she INTENTIONALLY CREATED A LONGER WAIT FOR ME TO LEAVE.  THAT is what got her a stiff. Even the lying to me didn’t bother me as much, because she intentionally made me wait longer to be able to leave the restaurant. I value my time just as everyone does. My time is the most valuable in a restaurant and it hurt me she found the time to do that for her precocious tip, but found ZERO time to make a separate trip to bring out my dr. pepper that she made me wait until she finished making my side salad. She also found the time to waste it going to get a pad and pen that honestly should have been ON HER in her apron pocket like other servers do.   My husband and I have LOTS and LOTS of times during the years ordered when greeted and had our drinks out first.  They didn’t wait to bring out the salad with our first drink.  I also told the manager that she treated us as if ALL customers are STUPID IDIOTS that they will ALL take the wrong copy.  Also, I told the manager, that look at how I didn’t fill out the merchant copy and how it does NO GOOD to do this for people like me that don’t fill out the merchant copy without the customer copy.  I also told our waitress and him that we go to many restaurants, so it’s hard to remember what amount of tip you left if you don’t write it on the customer copy.  You also don’t have any proof of any credit card receipt if you don’t have a copy for yourself.

 

The thing that gets me with this is how SELFISH this waitress was.  HOW selfish can you be to make sure you get your money so badly that you PURPOSELY make someone wait there longer to leave and think that will be a positive thing? Why would she be so dingy and stupid to tell me the truth? Why do servers think that people will feel sorry for them simply because they only make $2.13/hr. I have given 30% and more tips to servers before. On that particular meal when I have eaten it by myself, I have left $7 for a tip for it.  Usually the check is around $14-$16 worth or so give or take.  I also have given $20 for Christmas to my favorite servers over the years.

 

Honestly, what hurts me the very most is how she PURPOSELY CREATED a LONGER WAIT for ALL her customers.  She could have been at another table getting some refills instead of making another useless trip to get the customer copy of the credit card receipt.  She wasted time also when she is doing this; she is so stupid to think that customers will tip her more when they ask her for the receipt that she looked like she forgot.  When I have to wait longer because someone forgets something, I don’t tip nearly as well without any apology.  How stupid she is that if she would have just said she accidently didn’t grab the extra paper, I would have fully believed her, that’s how STUPID she is to tell me how selfish she was.  She wasn’t lazy to make sure she got her tip, but she was too lazy in my service to bring me my drink first like things are supposed to go that you get your drink BEFORE ANY food arrives(the side salad that you PAY for that’s NOT FREE, unlike bread or chips n’ salsa at a mexican restaurant.

 

It is 100% PURE MALICE in that she decided to make me wait longer to leave the restaurant to make sure she gets a tip. HOW more MEAN can you get, huh? Then she lied to me. The manager told me “Oh, it did print” that he guaranteed she lied to me.  I am still hurt by this and it’s been a while since.  The reason why is that how SELFISH she was.  She only cared about her tip and NOT about her customer’s time or feelings or thirst for that matter. She didn’t look at the drink to make sure it was not out of syrup.  She didn’t bring me my drink first and waited because she didn’t want to make an extra trip to the table.  She also treats her customers as EVERYONE is stupid.  Only once have in the zillion of times my husband and I ate out, have kept the wrong copy and it was signed. Guess what the manager said? As long as there is a SIGNED copy, it doesn’t matter WHICH COPY is there. That’s how STUPID she is. She also did it for 100% nothing since I didn’t fill out anything yet and as I said, if she would have been at a large party or even taking a party of 4’s entrée orders with them asking questions, I would have been there for quite a while waiting and then especially if she would have put in their food order first. 

 

Why are servers so SELFISH like this? Why can’t they treat customers like HUMAN BEINGS WITH FEELINGS? I was hurt by it to see that she did this with PURE INTENT, NOT by accident.  I can see as I have even done at my own job didn’t grab a piece of paper off my desk.  I don’t know WHY she told me the truth, but now I know if this ever happens, most likely it’s done with intent? She was pretty darn dingy and stupid to tell me the real truth.  I mean to hold someone hostage so they can’t leave the restaurant is going to affect the tip even if it’s not done intentionally. I am not going to give 20% if it’s not busy for a server to do this even if they forget the customer copy by accident. If it’s busy, if they really did forget it, I would forgive them if I didn’t have to wait long, but if I have to wait long like 5-10 minutes, I am NOT going to tip at all.  That’s how STUPID she is.  She thought making someone wait longer to leave is a good thing in service done on purpose? She thinks that mistakes don’t count in service for the tip? That’s stupid how she thinks.  She’s also so selfish to not buy highlighters if this is such a problem.  Of course, that’s taking up 3 seconds of the customer’s time as well to do such a stupid thing to act like everyone is STUPID and can’t READ as well.  You don’t want to waste your customer’s time.  Even if it’s 3 seconds, you want to make sure they get their stuff so they can leave. Also, it’s a customer copy.  What does that tell you? Since it’s a credit card receipt, WE as customers OWN it, so it’s theft.  That piece of paper is OURS, NOT HERS for the taking.

 

I hate managers like this, because they can’t see that a lot of servers are PURE EVIL like this that YES she did do it out of malice.  She wanted to make sure she’d receive her tip. In order to do that, she punished the innocent customer’s time for it as well as her other customers. I spoke to her for around 2 -3 minutes or so talking to her about what she did wrong and how this is illegal that she can’t do this. She also took up time to tell me the stupid story in the first place and then act like she didn’t say it by saying it didn’t print.

 

What’s so stupid is that even if something doesn’t print, you as a server are responsible for bringing me the 3 pieces of paper back to my table, so by missing it even by accident is the server’s fault 100%, NOT the printer. The printer doesn’t have mechanical arms to give me my check. This isn’t a kiosk like at Chili’s that prints my check.  So even if it didn’t print, why would that matter? I should have told her, but didn’t think about it, “So you can’t count you mean to tell me” when she told me it didn’t print. I would have loved to see her reaction then. I was just so taken aback about how EVIL and SELFISH this **** was to her customer’s time(all her customers, not just me).  Getting something for another customer in the time she wastes doing this extra trip is wasting time for everyone.  She’s so stupid to think that people should feel sorry for servers when they are purposely making you wait longer for something. That’s just COLD-HEARTED 100%!

 

Of course I didn’t tip her.  Even if the rest of the service would have been good(which it wasn’t), I would have stiffed on her purposely making me wait to leave the restaurant(not even counting the lying she did, just for the fact that she made me wait to get my copy of my credit card receipt on PURPOSE, NOT by pure accident.  First off, she took up my time to tell me that she leaves it by the computer and that if the customer asks for it, she will get it.  That’s time out of my life I wanted to leave and she told me that crap about how SELFISH she really was.  I can’t for the life of me believe how STUPID and DINGY she was to tell me that?

I am just frustrated about how selfish servers seem to be today.  They don’t check the prices on the menu against your check.  They blame the computer or old menus or corporate for a wrong overcharge price. They act like they can’t read and yet they want THEIR MONEY RIGHT when tip time comes, but they don’t care if they get YOUR MONEY RIGHT.  It’s so SELFISH and MEAN!

 

They take up your time to write stuff on the CREDIT CARD receipt and even circle the GRATUITY scale on the check as some servers have. Why be so INCONSIDERATE of the customer’s time like that? Why not earn your pay the CORRECT way by being a ********CONSIDERATE HUMAN BEING*********? People want to leave the restaurant and the servers would rather “turn-n-burn” the table for the next set of customers to make money, well if she did this when there was a wait for a table, she was preventing customers from being seated sooner even the evil ****.  Very MEAN and INCONSIDERATE! I couldn’t fathom doing something like that to another human being. I honestly couldn’t.

 

For her to lie to me after the fact was just stupid, because even if something doesn’t print, for her not to have the 3 pieces of paper is her doing all the way no matter what the machine does or doesn’t do. I should get back the check, the merchant copy of my credit card receipt and the customer copy of the credit card receipt.  She didn’t care she took someone else’s time away from them.  That’s what REALLY hurts the very most of all.  The time it took for her to get the check and the time it took for her to tell me the selfish story about how she leaves it at the computer on purpose.

To make customers wait longer to leave is not going to get her the best tip she could possibly get. HOW STUPID can she be? It is VERY MUCH MALICE and that’s what hurts that the manager was on my side about how she couldn’t do this, but to say it wasn’t malice, well yeah it was pure malice, because she wanted to make 100% sure she got her tip no matter at WHO’S TIME expense she cost. 

 

She also was so stupid to say she didn’t do it for me when she told me she did initially.  I was just so surprised at how ***********VERY EXTREMELY SELFISH************** this waitress was not to think about NO ONE ELSE BUT HER SELFISH SELF!

 

I just can’t believe she stupidly told me the truth. She should have lied about that she grabbed it too quickly. I would have honestly believed her. She probably would have gotten still a low tip for the ****ty service she gave otherwise as well, but would not have stiffed. She is pretty darn dingy if you ask me to tell a customer the GOD’S HONEST TRUTH to purposely create an issue at a table. 

 

This reminds me of another story the time that a waitress once at a restaurant my husband and I had never been to out of town before when it was really busy on a Sunday afternoon that we had a wait for a table so I ordered the appetizer when greeted adding just a side of ranch to it.  After she comes to get our entrée orders and when we are in the middle of ordering, a food runner comes to bring the appetizer to us without the ranch, right away she tells us I quote “I didn’t put the ranch on the ticket, because the food runners don’t read the tickets.” How dingy she was, is that she didn’t realize that she was not blaming the food runners, she was actually admitting even though she didn’t say it verbatim “I was too lazy to put that a side of ranch into the computer and I was too lazy to bring it out when I came to get your entrée orders as well when I very well could have” is what she really was saying.  I can’t believe some of these servers are acting so dingy to tell the customers the HONEST TRUTH they aren’t doing their job. It’s unbelievable to think this waitress thought she was blaming the food runners.  I mean how STUPID can this waitress be, seriously?? I did report it and the only reason she got an 8% tip was because after that happened I asked her to bring the condiments ahead of time for my entrée.  Get this, she was so lazy she asked what refill my husband had at the end since we got some refills to-go which at the same time we also asked for the check, she was too lazy to read the check, because the actual drinks were on the check(she didn’t write it down though, so she didn’t have that, but she had the check she could have found out what  my husband had. That’s how lazy some servers are today.  They don’t even want to take 2 seconds to see on their own what the drink was or press the button for ranch or put in ranch into the computer(5 seconds).

 

I truly didn’t realize servers were this selfish and self-absorbed until this and the circling of the gratuity scale as well as the servers that don’t check over the check for accuracy for wrong prices.  They don’t care about your time or your money, WTH should you care about theirs? It’s should be an EQUAL/EQUAL relationship between server and customer where the server cares about your time and money, the customer cares equally about their server’s money. That’s how it SHOULD GO to be FAIR AND EVEN! NO, it’s ENTITLED and SELFISH is what it is.  People wonder why I have a vendetta against servers, I don’t have it for all, but look at how they TREAT US CUSTOMERS.  I mean ZERO RESPECT is how they treat us. They don’t act like we have other things to do in life. We don’t want to wait around for our customer copy or longer for our check to point out how to tip when that’s our decision or longer to leave to write things on the credit card receipt taking up more of our time away from us.  The longer we sit, the longer you can’t make more money you dumb servers that do these things! HOW STUPID can you all be if you do these things, huh? Especially if they have a wait for a table, you are hurting yourselves.  You may even lose a customer if they wait too long for a table. I know, I have seen a couple leave in front of us they felt they waited too long to be seated even after waiting a while, they just decided to leave. 

 

So to the customers out there that feel sorry for servers, how do you feel now seeing how SELFISH servers are at times these days? I didn’t say all servers, but A LOT of servers seem to be selfish. Why are servers so mean and selfish like this? As I said, the waitress at the first restaurant I talked about found the time to make a separate trip to the table to bring me the customer copy, but didn’t find the time to bring me my first soft drink or take 2-3 SECONDS to look at the dr. pepper to notice if it’s out of syrup or not.  What a MEAN, SELFISH ****! I kind of remember a couple of times during the years we had to ask for the customer copy, but I thought it was just a mistake, now I know, it’s probably not EVER one now that this happened to me.  I can’t believe she actually told me the truth that she made me wait longer to leave to make sure she’d get her precious tip as if everyone is going to do this that can’t read or something.  She’s so SELFISH and ENTITLED!

 

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13 minutes ago, Elessar78 said:

We had to learn to watch out for our international colleagues when they came to the US because tipping wasn't a norm where they lived. They'd come, take people at HQ out for lunch and pick up the tab because they were on their expense account. But they'd tip 10% thinking that was a great tip. So we had to be sly, let the server know ahead of time that we would take care of them or do it very discreetly as  to not insult our paying colleague. One time I think our bill was in the hundreds and they left like $10. We made it right though.

 

We've done the opposite and go to Europe and the server loses their mind (positively) because we left a 20% tip. You know you're not supposed to, but it's such a hard habit to break.

Before Covid, we traveled regularly for work and I never got a clear answer on the tipping in europe. Zero? Round to the next whole number? Leave any change? 10%?

 

It's different in each country. Most different is in Italy you do not need to tip at all. Most other countries are like Germany which is 10% for good service. It also depends on the level and type restaurant. China is a good example. If it's a high end restaurant in a major city then 10 to 20% is proper. If you are out in the country then 5 to 10% is more in line although I still tend to over tip. In Australia it's also about 10% or around $5 person. Top end restaurants are more like US. India its a few $ - $2 to 4$ again unless its an upscale rest. Turkey is different depending on the part of the country - the northern area is more like Europe where lower Turkey it's lower. 

 

I typically ask people I am working with that live there. Usually it's a supplier. And they are pretty good at giving me a heads up. I actually ask them a lot about customs so I am not being rude in another country. 

 

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33 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

It's different in each country. Most different is in Italy you do not need to tip at all. Most other countries are like Germany which is 10% for good service. It also depends on the level and type restaurant. China is a good example. If it's a high end restaurant in a major city then 10 to 20% is proper. If you are out in the country then 5 to 10% is more in line although I still tend to over tip. In Australia it's also about 10% or around $5 person. Top end restaurants are more like US. India its a few $ - $2 to 4$ again unless its an upscale rest. Turkey is different depending on the part of the country - the northern area is more like Europe where lower Turkey it's lower. 

 

I typically ask people I am working with that live there. Usually it's a supplier. And they are pretty good at giving me a heads up. I actually ask them a lot about customs so I am not being rude in another country. 

 

When I was on a business school trip in Beijing and Shanghai, we were told not to tip when we went out on our own.  This was about 15 years ago.

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20 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

Hey, @Springs1...you're not doing well here.  I don't even read what you tag me on... It's probably the reason you get ****ty service. 

Get over yourself.  

You get over yourself.  You aren't doing well on here acting like you NEVER have bad service. What  CROCK OF SH**!! No, I get ****ty service, because of LAZY UNCARING servers and servers that want CONTROL, that's why and you know it!!

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17 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

When I was on a business school trip in Beijing and Shanghai, we were told not to tip when we went out on our own.  This was about 15 years ago.

 

I was spending a lot of time in Shanghai and some in Beijing at that time (2004 to 2014) and we tipped about 5% at decent restaurants but others not too much. But I always tipped anyway, although like you my colleagues said I didn't have to. Unlike Italy where it's an insult, your friends were just saving you money. Over the years - really since the Worlds Fair and the Olympics, they have gotten more to the US range in big cities. Their entire way of life has changed dramatically over the last 20 yrs.  

 

BTW: I had to learn the hard way - most times better meant cheaper. One of my early long range train trips they tried to convince me 2nd class was "better". I insisted on at least 1st class (there, trains Business Class is top class). "1st" class was about like our regular bus chairs. The difference in cost - relative to distances was for that 2.5 hr trip it was the equivalent of $8 for 2nd class - $20 for 1st Class - $75 for Business. I insisted on being booked Business class for anything longer than 1 hr after that (most were 3 to 5 hrs) - Airplane 1st class seats, better AC and Heat, only 7 seats in the entire car and much better service. It came from my bosses budget so it's not like I was asking them to pay for it from their limited budget. 

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Just now, goskins10 said:

 

I was spending a lot of time in Shanghai and some in Beijing at that time (2004 to 2014) and we tipped about 5% at decent restaurants but others not too much. But I always tipped anyway, although like you my colleagues said I didn't have to. Unlike Italy where it's an insult, your friends were just saving you money. Over the years - really since the Worlds Fair and the Olympics, they have gotten more to the US range in big cities. Their entire way of life has changed dramatically over the last 20 yrs.  

 

BTW: I had to learn the hard way - most times better meant cheaper. One of my early long range train trips they tried to convince me 2nd class was "better". I insisted on at least 1st class (there, trains Business Class is top class). "1st" class was about like our regular bus chairs. The difference in cost - relative to distances was for that 2.5 hr trip it was the equivalent of $8 for 2nd class - $20 for 1st Class - $75 for Business. I insisted on being booked Business class for anything longer than 1 hr after that (most were 3 to 5 hrs) - Airplane 1st class seats, better AC and Heat, only 7 seats in the entire car and much better service. It came from my bosses budget so it's not like I was asking them to pay for it from their limited budget. 

Actually our guide told us it was a safety thing for the server as they would be targeted if they were carrying cash.  I don’t know, we took her word for it.  

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30 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Actually our guide told us it was a safety thing for the server as they would be targeted if they were carrying cash.  I don’t know, we took her word for it.  

 

That may have been true in some of the more remote areas. I was never alone in the more rural areas. I was with suppliers or people from my own company. I only ventured out in the bigger cities. 

 

I was told not to flash money or you could be gang robbed. So I put what money I thought I might need in my front pocket separate from my wallet - usually in my passport since I never went anywhere without that. But that was very early on in Shenzhen. I never experienced anything like that and I have made 50+ trips to China not to mention another 30+ in other parts of Asia like Thailand, India, and Korea. 

 

I was only worried when we were at a flea market in Shenzhen a few years into my trips there and they directed us to their "better" merchandise in the "other" building. The other building was the maintenance room in the bottom of the huge parking garage. But there was 4 of us so we went (I didn't say we were smart). They did have better quality stuff there - lol Just like the back room we went to look at knockoff purses for our wives in Shanghai at the traveling flea market 🙂  

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1 hour ago, Springs1 said:

You get over yourself.  You aren't doing well on here acting like you NEVER have bad service. 

 

You registered 7 hours ago and have only posted in this thread. Did you actually join here just so you can rant about restaurant service to an audience of about 15 people (maybe)? How did that happen? Do you do Google searches every day looking for discussions about tipping? This is clearly something you've been involved in before given your quoting of other discussions on the topic you've been involved in, which might qualify as the weirdest appeal to authority ever. What caused this level of commitment?

 

I have so many questions...

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1 hour ago, Springs1 said:

You get over yourself.  You aren't doing well on here acting like you NEVER have bad service. What  CROCK OF SH**!! No, I get ****ty service, because of LAZY UNCARING servers and servers that want CONTROL, that's why and you know it!!

First of all, this is a football team message board.  According to your post count, you don't care about football.

Take your drama elsewhere.  We don't need it here. 

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5 minutes ago, techboy said:

 

You registered 7 hours ago and have only posted in this thread. Did you actually join here just so you can rant about restaurant service to an audience of about 15 people (maybe)? How did that happen? Do you do Google searches every day looking for discussions about tipping? This is clearly something you've been involved in before given your quoting of other discussions on the topic you've been involved in, which might qualify as the weirdest appeal to authority ever. What caused this level of commitment?

 

I have so many questions...


Surely some of it has to be copypasta.  Nobody actually types all that stuff out, do they?

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17 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

First of all, this is a football team message board.  According to your post count, you don't care about football.

Take your drama elsewhere.  We don't need it here. 

 

HYPOCRITE! You are talking about tipping on a FOOTBALL team forum, yet I can't???? DOUBLE STANDARD!

20 minutes ago, techboy said:

 

You registered 7 hours ago and have only posted in this thread. Did you actually join here just so you can rant about restaurant service to an audience of about 15 people (maybe)? How did that happen? Do you do Google searches every day looking for discussions about tipping? This is clearly something you've been involved in before given your quoting of other discussions on the topic you've been involved in, which might qualify as the weirdest appeal to authority ever. What caused this level of commitment?

 

I have so many questions...

 

We eat out a lot, so with so many servers out there that were uncaring and inconsiderate, well that's why I have a level of commitment.

 

This is my pet peeves for restaurants blog:

 

http://restaurantservicepetpeeves.blogspot.com/

 

Let's see if you disagree with any I put on there.

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5 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

You're clearly better than me on research, but some of it is just a waste of time.  Cheers. 

 

Sitting here enjoying a 25 year old Tawny Port with a cat in my lap and the remnants of some pretty poor college football games in my head (Trevor Lawrence didn't exactly jump out of the screen and scream first pick tonight).  Took five seconds to highlight two sentences and throw it in google.  So not really "research".  But I do agree it was not exactly the most well spent five seconds of my life.  Outside of the cat and the port of course. Cheers. :cheers:

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