The All things Tipping Thread

[CobraCommander]

7 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I do understand it’s hard to change the way things are. I really do. And saying things like “well you have to try!!” Doesn’t really put dinner on anyone’s table. 
 

So what, we are forced to play the game in the system we are in until.....? When? And if I want to enjoy a night out it’s either play by these arbitrary rules or stay home? I’m not sure that fair to be honest. At some point we need to come to terms with the bull**** we live with as Americans and actually do something about it. If we keep pushing the onus onto the little guy like me cause that’s the way it is, nothing is going to change. Y’all are coming after the wrong guy. 

 

I said it in a separate thread and I'll say it again. The only way to change it all, overnight, is a revolution. But we're too fat and comfortable as a country for that so yeah, nothing is going to change. Not in any meaningful way. So long as you can get your unlimited pancakes at IHOP you're probably going to leave a tip for it, drive home and forget all about it the next day.

[Jabbyrwock]

2 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

There's been a convention in place for more than a hundred years in the U.S. regarding service and tipping at restaurants.  If you want to rail against it, be my guest.  But dumb what-ifs don't help drive home your point.

 

There has been a slow erosion of "convention" in the US.  I would call it a crumbling of civility to be sure.  Basically what was once "unwritten, but accepted" now has to be written because of a general attitude that "if it ain't codified in law, I ain't gotta do it".  Look at the last four years: if there was a "norm" in presidential behavior, not codified in a law, it was shattered (hell...some that were written down were shattered as well).

 

Pick your area: Politics.  See the president and congresses behavior of late.  Corporations? Used to worry about a "triple bottom line" were impact to local community figured into corporate decision making along with profits.  Now its just a single bottom line of profit.  Individuals?  Sitting down in a restaurant isn't an unwritten contract that the person serving you isn't paid by the restaurant adequately for their time and it is you who decides how much they earn per hour based on their service.

 

Like I said, just an erosion of civility.  Its a two sided sword really.  At the core is individuality: the more we want to express our individuality (e.g. tipping more or less) the more responsible we have to be to each other for the system to succeed.  When the system fails, a law comes in to set the lowest common denominator, limiting individual expression.

 

[Llevron]

3 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Picturing Llevron handing the Domino’s driver a pamphlet on socialism instead of a fiver.

Five I can do tho. But that probably wouldn’t be 15% and then I’m a jerk right? 

[Dan T.]

4 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I do understand it’s hard to change the way things are. I really do. And saying things like “well you have to try!!” Doesn’t really put dinner on anyone’s table. 
 

So what, we are forced to play the game in the system we are in until.....? When? And if I want to enjoy a night out it’s either play by these arbitrary rules or stay home? I’m not sure that fair to be honest. At some point we need to come to terms with the bull**** we live with as Americans and actually do something about it. If we keep pushing the onus onto the little guy like me cause that’s the way it is, nothing is going to change. Y’all are coming after the wrong guy. 

 

Please. The social contract is 20% cause why and since when? 

 

Again, calling me a dick cause I don’t want to pay your arbitrary tax isn’t going to help these people make a living wage, which is what I assume all this passion of yours is about, no? You could do something 

 

So you don't tip as a one-man crusade against the system? And you think of yourself as an activist fighting for change?  I guarantee you that's not how others will view you.  Especially the waiter you stiffed, who will simply think you're a cheap ****.  And it would be hard to disagree.

 

I like you man.  But I really think you're in the wrong here.

[skinsmarydu]

At one point as a bartender in a Mexican restaurant, I made $5.75 + tips.  In less than a year, after a very rough prior year, I pulled myself out of ALL DEBT.  I could have made a mortgage payment a week if I wanted to, and that's all because I'm very good at what I do.  I was there for 10 years.  (And I brag because I can.)    The biz folded because of a lawsuit, but boss & me are still best buds. 

 

It's not a "loser" job.  To me, it's a very skilled position to be hospitable and make people happy during their meal without being overbearing or intrusive.  You have to know how to read people.  

One other key:  a lot of servers look at their tips through the shift.  I never do.  I work it out as an average per hour when I get home.  As long as people are walking in the door and my station stays full, I get mine.  But then again, I actually like what I do, so there's that.   

 

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, Florgon79 said:

 

I said it in a separate thread and I'll say it again. The only way to change it all, overnight, is a revolution. But we're too fat and comfortable as a country for that so yeah, nothing is going to change. Not in any meaningful way. So long as you can get your unlimited pancakes at IHOP you're probably going to leave a tip for it, drive home and forget all about it the next day.

We can vote for people who take this as seriously? I don’t think it has to be revolution or bust. 

[The 12th Commandment]

8 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Picturing Llevron handing the Domino’s driver a pamphlet on socialism instead of a fiver.

 

Re: Europe.  As @tshilesaid, no tipping in a Europe and it is a little weird at first and not at all unpleasant, BUT...you better prepare yourself for really lousy, really slow service.  And there’s not a damn thing you can do about it.

I tipped anyway and got great service.  Owner told me, several times, I didn't have to.  Servers took that **** and where glad for it and took care of me.  A bit expensive perhaps, but I was on vacation.

8 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

 

[CobraCommander]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

Five I can do tho. But that probably wouldn’t be 15% and then I’m a jerk right? 

No, 15% on a pizza is not being a jerk. It's fine and we all know it.

 

When I delivered Chinese food in NJ 20 years ago I delivered to some kids at a highschool one time. They gave me 27 dollars on a 26.90 bill and told me "keep the change". That's being a jerk. 

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

We can vote for people who take this as seriously? I don’t think it has to be revolution or bust. 

You and I probably do vote for those people. But there are plenty of people that do not.

[skinsmarydu]

And I think there's also an opinion that us folks in this industry shouldn't do well...WHY NOT? 

If I'm as good at my craft as an auto mechanic...sales, suggestions, service to the point of cleaning your jacket that YOU spilled your drink on...do I deserve less??????????

[TradeTheBeal!]

Put me down for 25-30% gratuity and NOT having a “revolution”.

[Llevron]

6 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

 

So you don't tip as a one-man crusade against the system? And you think of yourself as an activist fighting for change?

 

Show me where I said any of that. I think part of our issue here is that you are being so hyperbolic and I’m at least trying to be realistic. I don’t see myself as fighting for anything.

 

Quote

Especially the waiter you stiffed, who will simply think you're a cheap ****.  And it would be hard to disagree.

 

I guess that’s my problem with the whole 20% or stay home thing. I give what I have available. But if that doesn’t calculate to your percentage I don’t think it’s fair for me, the other guy struggling, to be the bad guy, when the industry is really the problem. 
 

But I guess your response to that is don’t eat out if you are struggling. I guess. 

 

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I like you man.  But I really think you're in the wrong here.

We can be cool and disagree. I happen to think that’s what makes us civilized and what is like about this forum and the members on it. I feel bad that I’m the bad guy here when I don’t think I should be. But it is what it is. 

[Larry]

36 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

There's been a convention in place for more than a hundred years in the U.S. regarding service and tipping at restaurants.

 

Really?  

 

20% additional pay for every meal being mandatory has been going on for 100 years?  

 

If you're going to pull things out of your ass, why not claim 1,000?  

[CobraCommander]

6 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Put me down for 25-30% gratuity and NOT having a “revolution”.

We can have both?

[Llevron]

14 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

No, 15% on a pizza is not being a jerk. It's fine and we all know it.

 

When I delivered Chinese food in NJ 20 years ago I delivered to some kids at a highschool one time. They gave me 27 dollars on a 26.90 bill and told me "keep the change". That's being a jerk. 
 

 

I was saying 5 bucks wouldn’t be 15% and this not acceptable. 

 

14 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

You and I probably do vote for those people. But there are plenty of people that do not.

And I guess part of my argument against revolution is that those plenty of people could and should if it’s so important. 

[skinsmarydu]

I don't think anyone thinks you're a bad guy.  I got blasted for blasting people with Hummers in food lines. It's all perception.

But you've gotta put yourself in that place, no one can do it for ya. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Related content.

 

 

[Larry]

35 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

No. Mechanics do not make tipped minimum wage. You would not be expected to tip a mechanic changing your oil. 

 

Are you being purposefully obtuse to try and make a point? It's kind of silly at this point. You understand full well why it's expected to tip servers, you just don't like it. Get over it man. 

 

https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips

 

Go ahead and read up on some of the laws and facts. My feeling here is that you are just arguing things for the sake of argument.

 

Which one of those laws and facts makes it moral for a business to claim that something costs X, and then claim there's something morally wrong with you if you don't pay more for it?  

 

And I'm loving the folks arguing that Person X shouldn't get additional "above the stated price" pay, because hey, he's making minimum wage.  

[Jabbyrwock]

1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Related content.

[Larry]

39 minutes ago, tshile said:

I feel morally obligated to tip wait staff because that’s the understood obligation or going out to eat in our culture. 

 

And that is a recent social construct.  

 

At least when I was managing a Pizza Hut, (around '80), probably 2/3 of customers gave no tip at all.  And 5% was pretty standard.  Might have been standard practice in more formal places.  I wouldn't know, back then.  

[PleaseBlitz]

11 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Really?  

 

20% additional pay for every meal being mandatory has been going on for 100 years?  

 

If you're going to pull things out of your ass, why not claim 1,000?  

Tipping in America began right after the Civil War, so he’s right on the timeline. Whether it was 20% on meals is unclear. 
 

And it’s not mandatory, that’s the point. It is a social custom that civilized people adhere to.  

[Llevron]

Ok well, once we get to the point where the arguments against my views become memes and accusations of being some kind of spirit crusader for the far left then it’s obvious I am not arguing my views well enough to be taken seriously. I didn’t really mean to come off as I did but I guess I’ll reflect and retreat. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

22 minutes ago, Llevron said:

But I guess your response to that is don’t eat out if you are struggling. I guess. 

 

If the point is that employers should pay full wages to avoid tipping being a requirement, in turn they are just going to up the price of the food.  So either way you chop it up, if you're struggling to the point you can't afford to spend more, then yeah - probably shouldn't be eating out.   

 

Think about the gap currently between tipped min. wage and regular min. wage - in some states, that's $13/hr.  If restaurant owners had to start paying their wait staff $13 additionally an hour, the price of the food is going to go up big time.  What that # is, who really knows - but it's sure to be a lot.  Worse, the quality of service is definitely going to go down, because there is no incentive for the wait staff to be really good at their job.

[skinsmarydu]

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Ok well, once we get to the point where the arguments against my views become memes and accusations of being some kind of spirit crusader for the far left then it’s obvious I am not arguing my views well enough to be taken seriously. I didn’t really mean to come off as I did but I guess I’ll reflect and retreat. 

Just a thought...most food/bev industry folks right now are very literally risking their lives to feed you.  Give 'em props.  (Remember, my boss went nuts & opened the dining room all willy-nillly and because it didn't keep me safe, I quit and am not "doing my thing" right now...it's hurting me, but from what I hear, not nearly as bad as it's hurting the business.  GM is waiting tables, and by law can't keep tips...that'll show him, ****er.)

Point is, keep it real.  If you're having a hard time, others are too...keep it in mind.  (And servers will run to the door to grab you if you tip well...just sayin'.)

[PleaseBlitz]

11 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

If the point is that employers should pay full wages to avoid tipping being a requirement, in turn they are just going to up the price of the food.  So either way you chop it up, if you're struggling to the point you can't afford to spend more, then yeah - probably shouldn't be eating out.   

 

Think about the gap currently between tipped min. wage and regular min. wage - in some states, that's $13/hr.  If restaurant owners had to start paying their wait staff $13 additionally an hour, the price of the food is going to go up big time.  What that # is, who really knows - but it's sure to be a lot.  Worse, the quality of service is definitely going to go down, because there is no incentive for the wait staff to be really good at their job.

Exactly. And the non-tippers are getting the benefit of the cheaper food by breaking the deal, which harms the servers who are likely to also be somewhat struggling people. 
 

Point is, if you go out to eat or get delivery, and don’t tip in the socially-expected manner, you are making a deliberate choice to **** over a member of your community. 

[tshile]

49 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

So what, we are forced to play the game in the system we are in until.....? When?
 

you cannot expect the industry to change itself. The only way that happens is if someone does it, and does it so well, it creates a competitive advantage to the point the others must also change to keep up. I don’t see that happening. Why would a restaurant owner want to shoulder this burden? As it is, their employee wages are primarily based on revenue flow. Take that away and now they still have to pay their staff even if people aren’t coming in the door at the same rate. 
 

if you want to change it the only way I think is feasible is legislation that makes it illegal for these people to be paid less than minimum wage. 
 

Even then results will vary. 
 

 

49 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

And if I want to enjoy a night out it’s either play by these arbitrary rules or stay home? I’m not sure that fair to be honest. At some point we need to come to terms with the bull**** we live with as Americans and actually do something about it. If we keep pushing the onus onto the little guy like me cause that’s the way it is, nothing is going to change. Y’all are coming after the wrong guy. 

 

 

this is where I’ll buck back on you just a bit. This and the “arbitrary tax” comment later in your post which I removed to just address it all here. 
 

it’s not an arbitrary tax. If we didn’t have a tipping system your costs would be more. If you go out and enjoy these things without tipping (or tipping very little) then yes you are a dick because what you’re saying is that you’re willing to pay an artificially lower cost for something, that directly hurts the person serving you. Because if you don’t have money to tip, then if we didn’t have tips you also wouldn’t have enough money to afford the service. So you should be out as a customer anyways. 
 

you’re only allowed to continue being a customer because you’ve found a loophole in the system - you can find artificially lower prices on things because of a social contract you now don’t adhere to. 
 

sorry. Dick move. 
 

You’re not entitled to go to a restaurant. You’re not entitled to artificially lower prices. If you take advantage of artificially lower prices and don’t uphold the social contract then you’re a dick. 
 

if you don’t even tip enough to cover til sharing payouts then you’re a super asshole. 
 

I don’t think your either of those based on what you said, and I don’t think you’re wrong with having a problem with the system, I have a problem with it too. I’m speaking to the assholes out there that take your argument to an extreme and are basically just skirting by using a loophole. 
 

49 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Please. The social contract is 20% cause why and since when?

 

This I don’t know. I think it used to be 15% to be honest. Somewhere around the 90’s it switched to 20% iirc.