Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

I liked this quote from an article posted in the News forum:

 

"As he lay on the Mercedes-Benz Stadium turf in the fourth quarter, Taylor Heinicke looked at the Washington Football Team sideline and smirked. The expression lasted only a split second before Heinicke thrust his fist in the air and celebrated a touchdown pass, a what-is-he-doing heave that Terry McLaurin snared in the back of the end zone, but it explained so much. Heinicke plays quarterback as though he believes he is getting away with something, as though he knows something the other guy doesn’t.

 

A lot of players from the fringes receive brief NFL opportunities and end up with regrets. They are not regrets about what they achieved, but about the way they played. Overwhelmed by the stage, they never express their full talent and playing style. Heinicke will not be one of those. He seems to understand this could be the only extended chance he gets to lead an NFL franchise, and he will show not just the best version of himself, but the truest."

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Not all directed at you. 

 

The NFL today seems to be trending towards requiring a team to score 30 points in 6-10 games a year to win enough to compete. Not sure Heineke gets to 30 plus points without being willing to make those throws. He 100% will lose a game taking a risk if he continues to be the starter for rest of the season. 
 

How would you define a calculated risk? All the great QBs make bad plays or trust their ability too much at times, but don’t let a bad play sway them from making the next great play. 

 

Im all in for playoffs every year, and careless about trying to develop Heineke, want him to be himself and go all out. Let chips fall where they fall this year.
 

No interest in playing it safe to preserve coaches and player’s jobs. 

 

Agreed about the point scoring. And even though it may sound like it in some of my posts here, I'm not against taking risks. We've been too scared of our own shadow as a team for a long time on offense. But that's where I'd go back to the calculated risk vs just risk.

 

To me a calculated risk after a play breaks down on 1st and 10 inside the 20 with 4 minutes left and being down by 8 would be seeing one of my receivers running in the back of the end zone and throwing a high pass on a rope to where either my receiver goes up and gets it or nobody does. Even if he has 2 guys on him best case is he makes an amazing grab and it's a TD, worst case is it's incomplete and we have 3 more downs to score.

 

Now, is it possible that's what Heinicke was trying to do with Terry? Sure, maybe. He did have a guy right in his face when he threw it. But even if we grant that that was the case, the problem is that he simply doesn't have the arm strength to make a throw like that. Even if he didn't have a guy in his face he doesn't have the arm to make that kind of throw from the 30 yard line.

 

So if that was the situation then it's an issue of him trying to do things he simply doesn't have the arm talent to do. And we know guys can get in trouble that way. Heinicke actually got in trouble with that a few times yesterday. He had multiple passes where he tried to get it to a guy a too late but he didn't have the arm to get it there fast enough. The result was 2-3 dropped INTs.

 

That's why I've mentioned that IMO the number one thing he needs to work on is his anticipation and throwing earlier. I think that will come with more practice and playing time so it's certainly not the end of the world. But if he keeps trying to make those throws too late then the odds will eventually come back to bite him.

[bowhunter]

If we had John Madden announcing Heinickes games, there would be so much more love

[Morneblade]

4 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

If we had John Madden announcing Heinickes games, there would be so much more love

 

He and Pat Summerall would love Heinicke.

[Number 44]

5 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

We've never had a QB of ARod's caliber here.  Hes an elite future HOFer and been doing it over a decade.

 

Just sayin'.  🙂

[Kelvin Bryant]

[wit33]

36 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

  Brett Favre is a good example of a player that played reckless at times but had the physical attributes to overcome the recklessness. 

Viking fans with SB aspirations in 2009 would disagree he was able to overcome his recklessness lol. Costly across the field throw in the conference title game against the Saints. 
 

Don’t underestimate Heinekes legs as his superstars trait to overcome recklessness. The throw to Mcclaurin in the back of the end zone was afforded by his elite scrambling. I get it from an arm talent perspective, but his scrambling will provide unique reckless opportunities that will hopefully continue to benefit the team. 
 

Be reckless, Taylor. 

[skinsfan93]

20 minutes ago, wit33 said:
 

Be reckless, Taylor. 

I don’t agree that he should be simply reckless but lm tired of playing scared or not to lose. Jason Campbell was a perfect example of a guy who needed a guy completely open to throw to. Billy Dee Williams never took a chance and where did it get us? Sometimes you gotta trust the players around you and take a chance 
 

Im not saying Heinicke is our future but I do really think there is possibly something special going on this year. If we can go .500 or better before the stretch of division games, we can get into the playoffs or even win the division. No one is unbeatable in the NFC including the Cards. 

[ODU AGGIE]

2 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

I put "luck" in quotes because, say, catches like the one Terry made aren't going to happen against good defenses. The ball to Terry in the endzone that landed incomplete "luckily" was an INC, but against a good team it's an INT. Taylor's taken advantage of defenses shooting themselves in the foot, but his QB skill is suspect. The dimension of running certainly helps him to be effective, but unless he starts getting other receivers involved it'll catch up to him real quick. Hopefully the high balls and inaccuracy improve as the season goes along, because if they don't it's going to be a rough ride for him and for his receivers.

I just honestly don't understand how you can make this grand statement about TH needing to improve his accuracy or "it's going to be a rough ride for him and his receivers" despite the fact that he has completed 69.5% of his passes this year. Only eight QBs have a higher completion percentage than Heinicke, and his completion percentage is better than Stafford, Ryan, Mayfield, Brady, Carr, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Winston, Wentz, Tannehill, Allen, and Jackson, just to name a few. It seems you are just trying to find something negative to say that has absolutely no basis in fact, and that is frankly bewildering to me. Come back with something factual that he needs to improve, and I will be the first one to agree with you.

[Renegade7]

43 minutes ago, Number 44 said:

 

Just sayin'.  🙂

 

All time great, ARod is better : /

[redskinss]

If our defense was playing at a level of even half what it was expected to we'd be over the moon ecstatic by heinicke's play Dangerous throws and all.

[Morneblade]

3 minutes ago, redskinss said:

If our defense was playing at a level of even half what it was expected to we'd be over the moon ecstatic by heinicke's play Dangerous throws and all.

 

 

And maybe 4-0.

[mistertim]

34 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Viking fans with SB aspirations in 2009 would disagree he was able to overcome his recklessness lol. Costly across the field throw in the conference title game against the Saints. 
 

Don’t underestimate Heinekes legs as his superstars trait to overcome recklessness. The throw to Mcclaurin in the back of the end zone was afforded by his elite scrambling. I get it from an arm talent perspective, but his scrambling will provide unique reckless opportunities that will hopefully continue to benefit the team. 
 

Be reckless, Taylor. 

 

Yeah Favre really was his own beast. He had an absolute cannon and believed in it so much that he would try to make throws that were just downright stupid, regardless of arm strength. I honestly can't really think of any comparison for him. He was the ultimate high and low guy. Insanely fun to watch, but also insanely frustrating for Vikings fans (as I've known a few who can attest to it and had a 15 year love/hate relationship with him).

 

I agree that TH's legs and ability to escape pressure is something that makes up for deficiencies in arm talent, but at the same time that's an entirely separate skill and from a recklessness standpoint, him being a little reckless scrambling shouldn't make it ok for him to be reckless with his arm. He needs to improve his anticipation or those picks are going to happen. And on the out routes (like the ones he had issues with yesterday) those can easily turn not just into INTs, but pick sixes.

[Destino]

1 minute ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

And maybe 4-0.

Buffalo would have still beaten us because their defense smothered our offense.  That game wasn’t as close as the scoreboard suggested.

[wit33]

13 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

I don’t agree that he should be simply reckless but lm tired of playing scared or not to lose. Jason Campbell was a perfect example of a guy who needed a guy completely open to throw to. Billy Dee Williams never took a chance and where did it get us? Sometimes you gotta trust the players around you and take a chance 
 

Im not saying Heinicke is our future but I do really think there is possibly something special going on this year. If we can go .500 or better before the stretch of division games, we can get into the playoffs or even win the division. No one is unbeatable in the NFC including the Cards. 

Exactly. 
 

As the years of following football pile up, I’m convinced “many” coaches and QBs play it safe to preserve a pay check. Not saying it’s right or wrong, but I prefer falling flat or hit a ceiling. No in between for the most part. Go for it. 
 

Taylor is a 28 year old dude who has bounced around the league, go out and do you. Sure, continue to work on your craft and mastery over the system, but dont compromise your essence as a football player. 
 

For what it’s worth, he may have gained some clout with coaches after this recent performance. Once you begin to buy coaches time and save them from the heat, their support for how you do things suddenly changes lol. 

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, Destino said:

Buffalo would have still beaten us because their defense smothered our offense.  That game wasn’t as close as the scoreboard suggested.

 

If our defense was playing like last year, Buffalo is not up 21-0 just like that, and then it's clawing to get back in the game. You don't have to press for 3 quarters. It becomes easier to just hang around within striking distance and then.......

 

As opposed to knowing your D can't stop the Giants or the Falcons, much less a real offense. Very different. When you know you basically have to score a TD on every drive? Yeah, that's usually not going to work well.

 

[ananoman]

12 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

I just honestly don't understand how you can make this grand statement about TH needing to improve his accuracy or "it's going to be a rough ride for him and his receivers" despite the fact that he has completed 69.5% of his passes this year. Only eight QBs have a higher completion percentage than Heinicke, and his completion percentage is better than Stafford, Ryan, Mayfield, Brady, Carr, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Winston, Wentz, Tannehill, Allen, and Jackson, just to name a few. It seems you are just trying to find something negative to say that has absolutely no basis in fact, and that is frankly bewildering to me. Come back with something factual that he needs to improve, and I will be the first one to agree with you.

This-  I can’t believe all the negatively biased comments about Heinicke-  he’s not accurate, locks on receivers….  I guess they have already forgotten how Haskins looked last year 

[KDawg]

Ironically a lot of it is from people who defend Chase Young at all costs that don’t want to believe in Heinicke.

[mistertim]

21 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

I just honestly don't understand how you can make this grand statement about TH needing to improve his accuracy or "it's going to be a rough ride for him and his receivers" despite the fact that he has completed 69.5% of his passes this year. Only eight QBs have a higher completion percentage than Heinicke, and his completion percentage is better than Stafford, Ryan, Mayfield, Brady, Carr, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Winston, Wentz, Tannehill, Allen, and Jackson, just to name a few. It seems you are just trying to find something negative to say that has absolutely no basis in fact, and that is frankly bewildering to me. Come back with something factual that he needs to improve, and I will be the first one to agree with you.

 

To be honest, the fact that he's got a higher completion percentage than some elite QBs should tell you that completion percentage in a vacuum doesn't really mean all that much in regards to overall QB skill or even accuracy.

 

I actually don't really think "inaccuracy" is the right word for Heinicke's issues so I disagree a bit with the post you were responding to. He has had problems in the beginnings of games it seems with passes being high and behind, but it appears that he tends to settle down once he's got some completions and gotten into a rhythm. But he's been accurate overall.

 

I've said this multiple times now, so I won't completely rehash it. But for me, the main issue with Heinicke is throwing earlier and with more anticipation instead of waiting and trying to make throws he simply doesn't have the arm talent to make. That was how all 3 of those dropped INTs happened yesterday.

[Stone Cold]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Ironically a lot of it is from people who defend Chase Young at all costs that don’t want to believe in Heinicke.

Folks place a lot of faith in pedigree.  So much so that a QB from ODU, our QB, is getting ran thru the ringer for what he can’t do.  But all he does is ball out and give us opportunities to win.  But he doesn’t have pedigree.  
lots of jags in this league with pedigree on practice squads or riding the bench.

once you’re in the league, pedigree doesn’t mean squat.  Show and prove.  That’s right…show and prove.  Believe your eyes.  4 is legit.  99 could take a lesson or two from 4.  Be yourself…ball out…playing in the nfl is a privilege that can be taken at a moments notice.  4 gets that.  99?…it’s a privilege not a right.  Ball out 99…play err play like it may be your last.

[PartyPosse]

35 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

I just honestly don't understand how you can make this grand statement about TH needing to improve his accuracy or "it's going to be a rough ride for him and his receivers" despite the fact that he has completed 69.5% of his passes this year. Only eight QBs have a higher completion percentage than Heinicke, and his completion percentage is better than Stafford, Ryan, Mayfield, Brady, Carr, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Winston, Wentz, Tannehill, Allen, and Jackson, just to name a few. It seems you are just trying to find something negative to say that has absolutely no basis in fact, and that is frankly bewildering to me. Come back with something factual that he needs to improve, and I will be the first one to agree with you.

If you think accuracy equates completion percentage then there is no point even conversing. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah Favre really was his own beast. He had an absolute cannon and believed in it so much that he would try to make throws that were just downright stupid, regardless of arm strength. I honestly can't really think of any comparison for him. He was the ultimate high and low guy. Insanely fun to watch, but also insanely frustrating for Vikings fans (as I've known a few who can attest to it and had a 15 year love/hate relationship with him).

 

I agree that TH's legs and ability to escape pressure is something that makes up for deficiencies in arm talent, but at the same time that's an entirely separate skill and from a recklessness standpoint, him being a little reckless scrambling shouldn't make it ok for him to be reckless with his arm. He needs to improve his anticipation or those picks are going to happen. And on the out routes (like the ones he had issues with yesterday) those can easily turn not just into INTs, but pick sixes.

 

He was the Nolan Ryan of football.  

 

There are a lot of parallels there.  Nolan Ryan struck out more batters than anyone, he also walked more batters than anyone.  Favre threw a lot of touchdowns...at one point more than anyone.  He also threw a lot of picks, more than anyone ever.

 

Both guys played forever, both guys were extremely durable.  Both had the best arms of their generation.  

 

Both guys are unique....you won't find another pitcher in baseball history like Nolan Ryan.  He's not the best of all time, not even particularly close from some perspectives.  But he's the most unique.  You could say the same about Favre and quarterbacks...he's not the best quarterback ever, far from it.  He's probably not in any top 10 list of anyone's all time quarterbacks but he's one of the most unique...if not the most unique.  There's no one else like him.  

[ODU AGGIE]

1 minute ago, PartyPosse said:

If you think accuracy equates completion percentage then there is no point even conversing. 

OK. Convince me. How else are you going to quantify passing accuracy. I'm waiting.

[PartyPosse]

9 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

OK. Convince me. How else are you going to quantify passing accuracy. I'm waiting.

Why does it have to be quantified? He throws high a lot. He’s missed a few throws. Made a few good ones as well but he’s put receivers in dangerous positions more often than I’m comfortable with. Like I said, I hope it’s something that improves over the year. I’m not asking you to take your Taylor poster down from the wall nor resign from his fan club.Why are people taking it personally when I say id like to see him improve against good competition before I’m comfortable with him going forward?

Edited October 4, 2021 by PartyPosse

[TK]