Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[PartyPosse]

I do think it’s important to take what MM had to work with his first few years into consideration. His RB was a washed up Demarco Murray and his only viable weapon was Delanie Walker. The rest was a smorgasbord of JAGs from Rishard Matthews to Taywan Taylor to Dorial Beckham Green to Kendall Wright to a washed up Eric Decker. 

[Darth Tater]

Tannehill actually was an above average QB at Miami. He did have health issues and wasn't what you want in a Franchise guy. His coaches included Adam Gase and he still managed a winning record.

[Est.1974]

Well I’m in favour of a move for Mariota, the trade cost should be low as I think he’s a potential cap casualty anyway. There are worse ideas if we are going the lower/mid tier route.

 

Mariota, plus drafting Lance if he is available outside of the top 10 is very appealing. 

[mistertim]

5 hours ago, CrypticVillain said:

Didn't know he was that banged up still... That sucks.

 

Yeah it was an ankle compound fracture with dislocation. That's a serious injury and takes time to rehab from. The most recent news I found is that he's started to walk some again and is doing work in pools, etc. to get in shape without putting much weight on it. So I find it really hard to believe he'll be ready to do a bunch of football related work by the middle of next month to prove he can still plant, etc. 

[Warhead36]

4 hours ago, Darth Tater said:

Tannehill actually was an above average QB at Miami. He did have health issues and wasn't what you want in a Franchise guy. His coaches included Adam Gase and he still managed a winning record.

^^ this. I keep reading "Tannehill was mediocre in Miami" and that's just wrong. He was a bit inconsistent sure and had some health issues but he also had some real good years. There is a reason the Titans took off after he took over, the increase in level of play from Mariota to Tannehill was astronomical.

[88Comrade2000]

I would prefer this.

 

We get a stopgap guy, like Mariotta. We draft someone that can be developed into the eventual starter. Taylor is our backup. Taylor and Marcus battle for the starting job. In 1-3 years; our draft pick will be ready to take over.

[Riggo#44]

1 hour ago, Rdskns2000 said:

We get a stopgap guy, like Mariotta.

Why? What improvement is he over Allen?

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

Even the Raiders won’t want that contract on top of Carrs. Imagine paying Carr 20mil whilst injured for example, then Mariota another 15mil plus on top. 
 

The Raiders are cutting him eventually if they roll with Carr at #1 
 

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

Doesn't it seem like virtually every NFL team is looking to upgrade their QB position ?

It would be a much shorter list, to indicate the ones that aren't.

[mistertim]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

^^ this. I keep reading "Tannehill was mediocre in Miami" and that's just wrong. He was a bit inconsistent sure and had some health issues but he also had some real good years. There is a reason the Titans took off after he took over, the increase in level of play from Mariota to Tannehill was astronomical.

 

Yeah that's true. Tannehill was never really a "bad" QB. I'd say he was above average. Maybe middle of the NFL. But he certainly wasn't killing it like he is in Tennessee now. On the other hand, IMO Winston, Mariota, and Trubisky are decidedly mediocre to poor QBs. So that makes me even less inclined to believe they'll have some amazing revival with us.

 

1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said:

Why? What improvement is he over Allen?

 

He isn't still rehabbing from a major season ending injury?

[PartyPosse]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

^^ this. I keep reading "Tannehill was mediocre in Miami" and that's just wrong. He was a bit inconsistent sure and had some health issues but he also had some real good years. There is a reason the Titans took off after he took over, the increase in level of play from Mariota to Tannehill was astronomical.

Dude had less than a 2/1 TD/INT ratio, a completion percentage of 63% and had 15 4QC in 6 years. This is all the very definition of average. He never throw for more than 27 TD and averaged 13 INT a season. 

 

He was average. You can say the talent he worked with wasn't there and this is very true. 

[Riggo#44]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

He isn't still rehabbing from a major season ending injury?

 Not yet. Mariota has a lengthy injury history too. Allen doesn't cost picks and is a fraction of the salary

[mistertim]

Just now, Riggo#44 said:

 Not yet. Mariota has a lengthy injury history too. Allen doesn't cost picks and is a fraction of the salary

 

That isn't an especially convincing argument. "Not yet, but it could happen".

 

Meanwhile, Allen right now is actually still rehabbing from his injury and we don't truly know whether he'll even be ready to go in the spring.

 

I'm not very into giving up picks for Mariota either, as I think he's super "meh". But if it's a low rounder it's not exactly the end of the world. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said:

Why? What improvement is he over Allen?

 

Once players get to the NFL and have a certain number of games of tape (or years of tape) you can start to scrap the "pedigree" argument ... but for fans and maybe even team execs, it is hard to shake.

 

I know that's true for me as well. I watched Mariota dominate college football for two years. Then I watched him come in and have a decent first two years in the NFL as the #2 pick. While things fell apart after that, it's easy to get excited for a 27 year old former #2 overall pick rather than an UDFA who had HS pedigree and hasn't done much except go what ... 3-9 or something in 2019 and then throw 4 TDs and 1 INT in limited playtime in 2020?

[Malapropismic Depository]

Go Bears !

Please run...and land !

So that we don't.

 

 

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

2 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

Why? What improvement is he over Allen?

I don't think Allen is that great.  The only reason he's here is because he was with Turner and Rivera in 19, in Carolina.  The Team wasn't that much better with him in the lineup either.  It was only when Alex came in; did things change.   Taylor and Kyle occupy the same role basically.  Backup.  

 

Mariotta has more experience as a starter.  I did say stopgap.  The future is the rookie, but the rookie probably needs a season or two.  Unless we get really lucky and find the next Russell Wilson or Tom Brady; I don't expect a rookie QB to play for a while.  Bringing in Mariotta, gives us a hedge against brittle Taylor.   I think MAriotta would perform better than Allen.

 

If the team was satisfied with Taylor and Kyle; there wouldn't be mention of them trying to find another QB in free agency or the draft. 

[Darth Tater]

IF you see Mariota as a stop-gap who should only be COMPETING for the starting job (and not have it as his to lose), than you don't see him as an upgrade as a stop-gap. Why spend any signigicant resources on a guy you do not see as significantly better than what you have? To give up quality resources for anything but a potential long-term solution is inane, especially when there are some better options for a stop-gap and/or don't see the stop-gap solution as significantly better than what you have (ie, should not be COMPETING for the starting job).

[88Comrade2000]

We aren't going to be able to really upgrade the QB position this year because; too many teams needs a QB and many of those are drafting much higher than us.  Stopgap is all we can get this year.  MAriota, I would give up maybe a 5th or lower round pick.  We can probably wait, since Raiders will probably just cut him.

 

I think the long term solution lies in the draft; whether that's this year or next year.  We have that 3 headed GM team now; they should be able to determine which QBs after the Top 4 are worth considering.  That's the future.  That rookie QB probably won't be ready for a year or two; considering where will be drafting to get them.  We aren't in a position to draft one of the rookies that can probably become the starter at some point in their rookie year.    Winning that division with a lousy 7-9 record; really cost us in be able to find that long term QB solution right away.

 

 

 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

20 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

IF you see Mariota as a stop-gap who should only be COMPETING for the starting job (and not have it as his to lose), than you don't see him as an upgrade as a stop-gap. Why spend any signigicant resources on a guy you do not see as significantly better than what you have? To give up quality resources for anything but a potential long-term solution is inane, especially when there are some better options for a stop-gap and/or don't see the stop-gap solution as significantly better than what you have (ie, should not be COMPETING for the starting job).

 

Well, I think from a culture standpoint Rivera wants to have a competition and let the best player win. So adding Mariota won't change that, only enhance that competition, which I suspect he would win.

 

Also, who is talking about substantial resources? It sounds like Mariota is unlikely to return to LV under his current contract given they have their own cap issues. He's owed $11m and that is completely freed up with a cut or trade. So the Raiders aren't exactly in a position of power here even if Mariota is seen as a legit starter (which he isn't in most areas).

 

So that said, I have seen mid-round pick thrown around a couple places. I saw the PFF article that had him going to NE for their conditional 3rd from Brady leaving.

 

So maybe you view a 3rd rounder as significant resources, but to me that's a worthy price for a flier like Mariota. Ink him to a new 2-year deal that averages $10m per year and guarantees most of the 2021 salary ... if he loses the camp battle and is just a backup, cut him after 2021.

 

Personally I think we could probably get him for a 5th and a conditional 2022 pick if he starts and leads us to the playoffs.

 

@Rdskns2000 Mariota for a 5th. Lance falls to #19. Perfect situation. Use 2nd/3rd/3rd on OT/WR/TE ... free agency to address WR, LB, FS, Scherff and Darby. Just gotta make the trade for Mariota and hope for Lance falls haha

Edited February 16, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins

[RWJ]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

For those not wanting MM.  The Patriots are pressing hard to trade for him.  https://twitter.com/BWilliamsonNFL/status/1361693100373118984?s=20

[Darth Tater]

@JamesMadisonSkins,

 

If you think we need a QB who is COMPETING for a stop-gap job, even if you think he will win, you should not consider more than a 4 or lower in this environment since there are better options (Fitzmagic for instance and even Smith may be better). So, if you think you can get Mariota for a 5, you are right because you can now cut the biggest loser in the competition with little harm.

[Andre The Giant]

 

[Lovi]

58 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Go Bears !

Please run...and land !

So that we don't.

 

 

 

I hope nobody trades for him.  Make the Eagles eat that contract.  I'm so sick of everyone bailing them out of their problems.

7 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

 

Well that firmly eliminates us from getting him!  LOL

[Darth Tater]

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

Dude had less than a 2/1 TD/INT ratio, a completion percentage of 63% and had 15 4QC in 6 years. This is all the very definition of average. He never throw for more than 27 TD and averaged 13 INT a season. 

 

He was average. You can say the talent he worked with wasn't there and this is very true. 

He did this while playing for Philban and Gase. Interceptions are heavy downgrades to OB ratings but are often something that can be fixed if you have the tools to put stress on
DBs.