FA Bust - Landon Collins

[IrepDC]

28 minutes ago, Silvernon said:

Everett was in on that play. C'mon man. 

 

He dropped down and probably would have been beaten on that post, but that was his route to take and Collins needed to stay with the outside receiver. Only two receivers were running deep, and the offensive weapons are lined up to start on Collins side. 

 

He needs to show a better understanding of cover 2. 

I couldn't understand what Collins was doing there. Stem to split the WRs to give yourself a chance. He was too far inside the entire time, and he bit on the post like he forgot to watch the outside route. He doesn't look comfortable in that 2.

[KDawg]

Just now, IrepDC said:

I couldn't understand what Collins was doing there. Stem to split the WRs to give yourself a chance. He was too far inside the entire time, and he bit on the post like he forgot to watch the outside route. He doesn't look comfortable in that 2.

Absolutely what he did. At least if he kept climbing he had a chance to get to number 1. But he stood there. 

[pico926]

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Didn't I say that?

 

 

Yup. 

Yes except for he was beat by alignment and never had good position. A cover two safety should be 10-12 yds off the ball when snapped. He was much shallower and as slow as he is had no shot at covering that route combo. 

[IrepDC]

Just now, KDawg said:

Absolutely what he did. At least if he kept climbing he had a chance to get to number 1. But he stood there. 

He needs to be used as a robber in the middle of the field, given a flat, or sent on blitzes. He doesn't need a deep 3rd or half in any snaps, and very few in man other than maybe blitzing to the RB. Fans would love him in that role.

[KDawg]

Just now, pico926 said:

Yes except for he was beat by alignment and never had good position. A cover two safety should be 10-12 yds off the ball when snapped. He was much shallower and as slow as he is had no shot at covering that route combo. 

Yeah, he was trying to show he wasn’t in cover 2. The problem there is... he never got into position. He just sat. Didn’t get the depth needed to play it. Not a good rep.

[philibusters]

IMO the problem with Landon Collins is he just not very versatile.  He does some things well, but he does other things at an average or even below average level for a NFL starter.  Outside of the right system for him, he is a very average player.   We are not running the right system for him so we have a very average player.  That wouldn't be the end of the world cause all teams have some average starters on their team.  The problem is the WFT is paying him as one of the best safeties in the game.

 

The Maryland Terps had a similar player to Landon Collins the past couple years (Antoine Brooks, the Steelers drafted him the sixth round this past year).   Brooks was great in Maryland's system where he got to play downhill a lot, but whether he'll ever develop into a starter at the NFL level probably depends on if he is in the the right system.  He replaced Sean Davis at SS after Davis was also drafted by the Steelers in 2016 (actually there was a two year gap in between as Brooks became the starter in 2017 as a sophomore) and he was so much better than Sean Davis at Safety in Maryland's system.  That said I wouldn't be surprised if Davis had the better pro career.

[abdcskins]

I agree, bust.  Collins was an absolute stud in New York.  A star.  Made tons of plays.  I can't even remember the last time I saw him make a good play.  Waste of money.

[Leonard Washington]

5 hours ago, IrepDC said:

Collins needs a DC willing to scheme him i to his strengths. He can't do everything, but he can do a few things well. 

There were a few games last year that Collins was a battering ram, attacking on every play and being a factor. His problem doesn’t seem to be footspeed but he NEEDS to learn how to cover a TE. If he can’t do that, he has lay some intimidating hits and cause fumbles. 

[Redskins Reparations]

Imagine if all of our free agent busts had a thread in honor of their underachievement.

[Mr. Sinister]

32 minutes ago, Redskins Reparations said:

Imagine if all of our free agent busts had a thread in honor of their underachievement.

 

That would be one big ass thread 

[Hooper]

37 minutes ago, Redskins Reparations said:

Imagine if all of our free agent busts had a thread in honor of their underachievement.

 

Or a ring of honor/shame. Come on, let's kickstart this bad-boy. 

[Redskins Reparations]

58 minutes ago, Hooper said:

 

Or a ring of honor/shame. Come on, let's kickstart this bad-boy. 

I want to start a “Welcome to the NFL Mr. Snyder CEO Snyder Broadcasting” thread but I am concerned over the mod backlash.

[Koolblue13]

I can't imagine what happened to him. He was a great SS with the Giants. Not Adams tier, but that's just different.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I can't imagine what happened to him. He was a great SS with the Giants. Not Adams tier, but that's just different.

Part of it is the defenses and schemes he’s been in haven’t allowed him to refine his craft. Another part is the evolution of football towards both safeties in typical defenses being more free than strong. Coverage skill is paramount. Guys who have skill sets like Collins are more linebacker than safety now. 
 

Ability to cover a little due to athleticism, but downhill impact attacking style backers. When Collins has to be primarily coverage responsible from down to down its much less his game.

[Est.1974]

So listed at 6-0 218lbs, can we get him up to 230 and find him a role at linebacker. 

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Part of it is the defenses and schemes he’s been in haven’t allowed him to refine his craft. Another part is the evolution of football towards both safeties in typical defenses being more free than strong. Coverage skill is paramount. Guys who have skill sets like Collins are more linebacker than safety now. 
 

Ability to cover a little due to athleticism, but downhill impact attacking style backers. When Collins has to be primarily coverage responsible from down to down its much less his game.

I get all of that. We've also been hearing the both safeties being equal since Greggg. I also get that Manu was using him poorly, but I didn't think JDR would. Especially since he likes to have a real SS. 

 

Collins wasn't a liability against average TEs in NY. He should not be struggling under JDR.

[KDawg]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

I get all of that. We've also been hearing the both safeties being equal since Greggg. I also get that Manu was using him poorly, but I didn't think JDR would. Especially since he likes to have a real SS. 

 

Collins wasn't a liability against average TEs in NY. He should not be struggling under JDR.

It’s not about using him poorly, persay. It’s about him not fitting at safety with his skill set and the limitations he brings to a defense while trying to force him into that role. 
 

NY had a much better coverage unit as a whole, which let Collins do what he does. Our coverage unit is very poor. Our corners do their job for the most part. Neither safety can cover well and our backers have been well below par. When you have 4 guys in your coverage unit that have the same weakness in skill, individuals stand out more.

[Spaceman Spiff]

44 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

So listed at 6-0 218lbs, can we get him up to 230 and find him a role at linebacker. 

 

This is where I'm at.  

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

So listed at 6-0 218lbs, can we get him up to 230 and find him a role at linebacker. 

That's a god idea. SDH is by far my biggest disappointment on the season and it's not even close IMO. 

 

I'd guess Curl moves to SS is Collins goes to LBer? Everette is a great ST player, but an awful safety.

[SemperFi Skins]

has Khaleke Hudson played at all?

[philibusters]

51 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

That's a god idea. SDH is by far my biggest disappointment on the season and it's not even close IMO. 

 

I'd guess Curl moves to SS is Collins goes to LBer? Everette is a great ST player, but an awful safety.

 

I have a feeling Curl isn't ready to start yet.   You may end up downgrading the SS spot with that move and for only a small upgrade at LB.  We need Collins to play better at SS.

[Veretax]

I don't think signing Collins was a mistake, the contract might make it seem so.  Kendal Fuller had a few plays where he looked out of sort too and with Covid messing up preseason, no idea how many of these issues are real, and not just a lack of time on field for everyone.  

[Mr. Sinister]

I hope we can get a safety in next years draft. First 3 rounds.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Mr. Sinister

[Redskins Reparations]

2 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

So listed at 6-0 218lbs, can we get him up to 230 and find him a role at linebacker. 

I am not sure if this would improve his speed but maybe shedding 15lbs will improve his speed?

[philibusters]

25 minutes ago, Veretax said:

I don't think signing Collins was a mistake, the contract might make it seem so.  Kendal Fuller had a few plays where he looked out of sort too and with Covid messing up preseason, no idea how many of these issues are real, and not just a lack of time on field for everyone.  

 

I think Collins is an okay player in our system and a good player in a different system so in that sense it wasn't a bad signing, but we guaranteed him 45 million over the first 3 years of his 6 year 84 million dollar contract.  Paying that much for an average player at a non-premium position was a mistake in hindsight.  I think if you pay a safety that much they need to have a slightly better rounded game.  If we had guaranteed him say 30 million over 3 years of say a 6 year 60 million dollar deal then I would say despite him not quite living up the hype it was still a good signing at the time because of the upside he had.